  mobOn the next level..Premium
join:2000-10-07
 ·SureWest Internet
1 edit | It expanded to the 1% enclave of Johnson County Somehow...even though the cities they announced an expansion towards are not in Crimedotte or KCMo, they are going to expand it to a very specific portion of JoCo so that the area 1% crowd can have cool internets.
Meanwhile I'm stuck on 50/50 fiber back in the stone ages. | |
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 |  MaxoYour tax dollars at work.Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL | Re: It expanded to the 1% enclave of Johnson County said by mob:Meanwhile I'm stuck on 50/50 fiber back in the stone ages. Talk about first world problems. | |
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| |  DavidNow accepting new patientsPremium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:78
 ·DIRECTV
·AT&T Midwest
 ·magicjack.com
·Google Voice
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: It expanded to the 1% enclave of Johnson County said by Maxo:said by mob:Meanwhile I'm stuck on 50/50 fiber back in the stone ages. Talk about first world problems. no joke, I thought my 6/768 was good. Man I never thought 50/50 was stone age! | |
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| Reviews:
·ooma
 ·Optimum Online
 ·Verizon FiOS
| said by mob:Somehow...even though the cities they announced an expansion towards are not in Crimedotte or Kansas Shitty, Mo, they are going to expand it to a very specific portion of JoCo so that the area 1% crowd can have cool internets.
Meanwhile I'm stuck on 50/50 fiber back in the stone ages.
50/50 isn't bad for a geography outside the northeast and west coast.. some people can't even pull off dialup because the analog is so crappy (mainly at&t former bell south & West Virginia). Also of note, not even Verizon is offering 50/50 symmetric fiber and recently raised their prices across the board..
I say onward and outward.. whatever incentives google fiber expansion is a good thing, except to incumbents who have had it too good for too long. Not exactly mega millionaires living in the area unless you're profiteering from natural gas(fracking), oil, or agriculture..
As google fiber expands, tier-1 backbone providers pull fiber closer to many more communities making fiber less and less expensive to deploy in the last miles. There are plenty of places left in AT&T and Verizon geographies for smaller carriers to deploy fiber or coax networks. Though, this time the people will have to fight back should these companies try any sleazy tactics to block 3rd party carriers from entering the market. Google may have deep pockets to fight, but smaller carriers don't-- and that's where you the people come in... make your politicians take note that this is an issue that will come back to haunt them come election time (this one AND the next one...) Eventually, the federal government will ban state laws restricting 3rd party carriers from entering markets where incumbents refuse to build and Citizens petition for relief. Maybe it shouldn't be forced on a community, but by the same token, the community shouldn't be held hostage to corporate opolies.. going on decades... | |
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| | | What? I checked the demographics information on that area and it didn't look like a 1% types area from what I read... | |
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|  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | said by mob:Meanwhile I'm stuck on 50/50 fiber back in the stone ages. Not quite the Stone Age. They built that right about the time they built the great triangalids in Egypt.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | And the Walmart machine marches on... It sucks to be a small provider in Kansas... | |
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| zed260Premium
join:2011-11-11
Cleveland, TN Reviews:
·Charter
| Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... said by battleop:It sucks to be a small provider in Kansas...
question is does that make it bad or good for consumers | |
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| | | | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... Short term it's good, long term it's not so good. People complain about a duopoly now, just wait and see where we are a few years after the free 5/1 connection wipes out the competition.
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I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company. | |
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| | | Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... said by battleop:Short term it's good, long term it's not so good. People complain about a duopoly now, just wait and see where we are a few years after the free 5/1 connection wipes out the competition.
I free 5/1 wipes out competition, then those incubments were never worth having in the first place.. even so, we're not talking about wiping out Qwest / Centruytel... these incumbents have slightly bigger pockets (particularly in the northern part of the states) | |
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| | | | | | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... As I have said time and time again I do not give two shits about 1M+ Subscriber ISPs/Cableco/Teleco. I am only looking at this from the perspective of smaller operators.
Even with that said if it does happen and they run all other options out of the market is it any better when you have no choices?
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I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company. | |
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| | |  FBGuyPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | If an ISP cannot provide service better than that they should get out of business. The free 5 megabit tear is the national average for broadband service there is no reason that in a populated area they cannot provide service far beyond that | |
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| | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... said by FBGuy:If an ISP cannot provide service better than that they should get out of business. The free 5 megabit tear is the national average for broadband service there is no reason that in a populated area they cannot provide service far beyond that
Predatory pricing is generally illegal.
If Google and their municipal bedmates cause ISPs, LECs or MS0's to fail, the damage awards could be huge (against both parties).
More likely, Google itself will realize the err of its ways when they fail to achieve profitable broadband contract levels, and retract the 5/5 freebie to encourage more paid subscriptions. | |
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| | | | | FBGuyPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... The MARKET will cause them to fail if they cannot adapt to it. If they can't, too bad. Their own fault for shitting in the money bed. | |
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| | | | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... said by FBGuy:The MARKET will cause them to fail if they cannot adapt to it. If they can't, too bad. Their own fault for shitting in the money bed.
When a "competitor" gives away the product you sell, when they sell it below cost, for the effect of driving you out of business, what you're mistakenly referring to as the MARKET, that's illegal under Sherman. Getting the likes of Holder or Leibowitz to prosecute, that's a whole 'nother matter.
Consider this: the MSO is no stranger to faux-competitive challenges.
Google is charging a minimum $120 for pay-tv without ESPN or HBO.
What if AT&T, Time-Warner and Surewest offer a double-play bundle of 20/1 + basic cable + movie package for $30/month on a 24-month agreement, and no one bothers to sign up for Google?
You'll be OK when Google fails to adapt to the MARKET, and goes home,
tail between its legs, in the middle of the night, in the same manner as they've cancelled product after product? | |
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| | | | | | | FBGuyPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL Reviews:
·Comcast
 ·T-Mobile US
| Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... AT&T, TWC, and Surewest would never do this though.
The untapped market is the Internet side. This whole thing is about the Internet Service. Anyone can provide TV service. Apparently nobody knows how to provide decent Internet service. That is what this whole thing is about. TV is just a product that can be provided via the fiber. I'm sure Google could provide dozens of other products over the fiber also. Maybe that is the point that you are trying to make though, they shouldn't offer TV service at all.
They offer the TV service because people love to think that they should bundle. And maybe, just maybe, the costs for Google to provide that service are quite lower than what the others can manage. That is part of the free market and is not protected. If you cannot figure out how to provide a product as cheaply as your competitor, then you need to figure out how to. | |
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| | | | | | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... History suggests they will. | |
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| | | | | | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | said by FBGuy:AT&T, TWC, and Surewest would never do this though.
History suggests they will.
said by FBGuy:The untapped market is the Internet side. This whole thing is about the Internet Service. Anyone can provide TV service. Apparently nobody knows how to provide decent Internet service. That is what this whole thing is about. TV is just a product that can be provided via the fiber. I'm sure Google could provide dozens of other products over the fiber also. Maybe that is the point that you are trying to make though, they shouldn't offer TV service at all.
Anyone can provide TV service?
Really?
Then why do we see only one provider, in nearly every town and hamlet in America? | |
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| | | | | | | | | FBGuyPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL Reviews:
·Comcast
·T-Mobile US
| Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... I don't I know that most places can get more than 1. broadcast, satellite, cable, TV over IP, etc etc. You just need a network of some type to get it. Once again, this is about the network. Traditional cable is happy with not upgrading the last mile media used. Google is using a better network media. | |
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| | | | | | | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... My place only gets traditional cable which, to their credit, has upgraded the last mile media twice in a decade. But we have no OTA reception and no satellite access, so I take exception to your generalization.
The "network of some type" already exists in a majority of homes.
Where is this TV service you claim "anyone" can provide? | |
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| | | | | | | | | FBGuyPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... Ok, I've never heard of anywhere short of NORAD that cannot get satellite access. Can you elaborate why you don't have access to the sky?
and all you need to provide TV service is programming. You don't have to have NBC, AMC, ESPN, HBO, etc. | |
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| | | | | | | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
1 edit | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... We aren't permitted. Many people don't have a view of the southern horizon.
Some people live in "historic" structures that forbid satellite dishes.
Others don't have roof rights.
TV Service includes NBC, AMC, ESPN, et al.
If your definition held water, Google TV would have sold like hotcakes.
People buy TV Service, expecting the aforementioned networks. | |
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| | | | | | | | | FBGuyPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... TV Serice does not require a provider to have NBC, AMC, ESPN, et al. Seriously, you don't need that. Those are just types of programming. You don't need specific types of programming to provide entertainment via a television. | |
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| | | | | | | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... 100+ million pay-tv households say otherwise. | |
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| | | | | | | | | FBGuyPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... Where do you get 100+ million pay-tv households? how many households are not pay-tv households? | |
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| | | | | | | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
1 edit | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... Take your pick: Nielsen or the NCTA. Both show 100M+.
OTA-only is somewhere around 15-17M. | |
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| | | | | | | | | FBGuyPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... add in the other-tv households.. it's more than you would think. | |
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| | | | | | | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... said by FBGuy:add in the other-tv households.. it's more than you would think.
Huh?
There are only 115 million households.
102 million of them buy satellite, cable, or telcotv.
I was being generous, since a couple unofficial sources claim slightly more than the net 13 million OTA-only that the math supports.
Adding "other TV" doesn't change anything.
Absent a congressional restructuring of content and broadcast, i.e. requiring some form of discrete / unbundled wholesale rates for channels, networks, episodes, by the hour, day, week, month, year or seasons, with an MFN clause or transparent bidding system, accompanied by an end to the network-neutrality fiasco, you aren't going have consumers buying cable-equivalent content via IP/OTT. And while you may protest, that's what the consumer considers "TV Service". | |
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| | | | | | | | | FBGuyPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL Reviews:
·Comcast
·T-Mobile US
| Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... doh! My mistake. I know there are about 300 million people in the US. I forgot that there are multiple people per home. Sorry about that. This is very surprising information for me. Why do so many people waste so much money on TV when the economy is supposedly in the shitter. My guess is that the economy was never in trouble in the first place. | |
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| | | | | | | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... said by FBGuy:doh! My mistake. I know there are about 300 million people in the US. I forgot that there are multiple people per home. Sorry about that. This is very surprising information for me. Why do so many people waste so much money on TV when the economy is supposedly in the shitter. My guess is that the economy was never in trouble in the first place.
The economy is most definitely in big trouble - you ain't seen nothing yet.
When the zero-percent financing and our credit line runs out, we're going to be in a world of hurt.
Just because a family (household) finds $40-100/month to keep the cable on, doesn't mean they're doing well. It may mean that with 2 or more unemployeds in the home (the kids come back after possibly finishing college, with their own massive debt load), cheap entertainment fills in the void and monotony that dominates the atmosphere between job applications. Not everyone is instantly re-hired, even if they are fortunate enough to have the desired skill set at the right time. | |
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| | | | | | | | | FBGuyPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL Reviews:
·Comcast
·T-Mobile US
| Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... instead of putting that money away for when the economy is worse, they spend the money? That is just ass backwards thinking. It's really sad that TV, a relatively solitary activity, fills the void that work does. Why can't people take up a hobby instead of sitting in front of the boob tube?
by your numbers, that is about $40-$100 million/month that could be put into savings instead. That seems like a better idea than wasting it on crapitalistic programming. | |
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| |  tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | Good.
Ironically, those areas of Kansas have had not only Roadrunner and ATT, but Surewest offers fiber to the area. Not necessarily the cheapest, but still attempted to compete with the big boys.
»www.surewest.com/internet/highspeed-kc.php
Either way, 10mbps for $40/mo isn't a bargain. And neither is 50mbps for $150/mo.
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"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| | |  El QuintronResident Mouth BreatherPremium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:2
·TekSavvy DSL
·WIND Mobile
·voip.ms
| Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... said by tiger72:And neither is 50mbps for $150/mo.
Our highest available FTTN tier is 25/7 and retails at 52.99 (300GB) and 77.99 (Unlimited) with Teksavvy. At 149.99, with a lower upload speed it's a bit expensive, even if I'm somewhat envious of the download speeds.
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Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have | |
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| | | | brad
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... said by El Quintron:said by tiger72:And neither is 50mbps for $150/mo.
Our highest available FTTN tier is 25/7 and retails at 52.99 (300GB) and 77.99 (Unlimited) with Teksavvy. At 149.99, with a lower upload speed it's a bit expensive, even if I'm somewhat envious of the download speeds. And Bell is behind the curve with their FTTN (VDSL2) roll out. They could offer much higher speed tiers with the use of vectoring + line bonding. | |
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| | | | | El QuintronResident Mouth BreatherPremium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:2 Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·WIND Mobile
·voip.ms
| Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... said by brad:And Bell is behind the curve with their FTTN (VDSL2) roll out. They could offer much higher speed tiers with the use of vectoring + line bonding.
Assuming they got on top of it, do you know if the higher speeds would automatically carry over to IISPs?
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Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have | |
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| | | | | | brad
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... said by El Quintron:Assuming they got on top of it, do you know if the higher speeds would automatically carry over to IISPs?
Well I was only speaking from a technical perspective. Whether we would see those new tiers would be up to the usual process with the CRTC. | |
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|  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | said by battleop:It sucks to be a small provider in Kansas... Welcome to capitalism. | |
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| | | | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... It will be one more thing cowsumers bitch about in the future. They will forget that it was caused by their own greed.
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I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company. | |
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| | | FBGuyPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: And the Walmart machine marches on... "cowsumers" are allowed to be greedy. | |
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| | FBGuyPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | what small providers are there in Kansas? | |
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| | | said by battleop:It sucks to be a small provider in Kansas...
I'm glad that Kansas at least has small providers. We don't have them here. Comcast serves the city, Charter serves some of the county, and AT&T has a Swiss cheese deployment of U-verse and DSL. I have a friend who lives less than 15 minutes outside of town, and all he can get is satellite. He can't even get 3G service from the cell companies.
If Google wants to deploy here, I'll get a ladder and help them hang the fiber. | |
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1 edit | They still don't allow most of KCMO to register They need to fix preregistration problems in KCMO before expanding. Most muti-unit buildings still can't register. My mostly multiunit fiberhood is way behind quota because most can't register. Yet all the hoods around us have enough to qualify. Most of downtown lofts/hirises are having problems registering too.
Yes, first world problem but homeowners are worried it will impact home/condo values if their fiberhood doesn't meet quota. | |
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|  corsterPremium
join:2002-02-23
Gatineau, QC
·TekSavvy Cable
| Re: They still don't allow most of KCMO to register said by xenophon:They need to fix preregistration problems in KCMO before expanding. Most muti-unit buildings still can't register. My mostly multiunit fiberhood is way behind quota because most can't register. Yet all the hoods around us have enough to qualify. Most of downtown lofts/hirises are having problems registering too.
Not surprising at all. Multiunit buildings present their own challenges for service delivery beyond getting the connection to the door. | |
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| | | | Re: They still don't allow most of KCMO to register Google isn't intentionally blocking certain buildings to register because of potential logistical issues with deploying. They want to see the interest first and allow anyone in valid fiberhoods to register. They are just having problem with many buildings registering due to a bug in address checking routines. Some buildings do work but most don't. They fixed the first floor of my building but 12 other floors still can't register. They are working to fix but perhaps they need to fix this before announcing more fiberhoods. | |
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| | | Reviews:
·Millenicom
·AT&T Southeast
·Verizon Wireless..
| Re: They still don't allow most of KCMO to register A lot of smaller communities nearby revamped or created new proposals to Google after Kansas City KS was chosen. Then KC MO was added. After the issue of line placement on electrical power poles was worked out in both Kansas Cities, basically needed to adhere to realistic established safety standards, the template for proposals was established. The metropolitan areas that are just across the street or a really short distance down the road made offers based on that template. I think many of these areas get their electricity from the same power companies that KC KS and KC MO do. That means you are just extending the fiber usage of the same company's pole infrastructure. It makes it somewhat easy to expand when doing that. The more expansion that is relatively easy, the bigger the experimental base and potential profits for Google. | |
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| | | | | | Re: They still don't allow most of KCMO to register That's not related to registration problems. Google has specifically acknowledge in their FAQ they have a problem with the registration database for many multiunit buildings. They do want every person even in multiunit buildings to pre-register to show interest. If at a later time they determine it can't be done, the fee will be refunded. There are some buildings that work, most don't. My first floor works now (after many calls) but all other floors still don't work. It's a problem in the DB, not them intentionally blocking out certain buildings. | |
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| | | | | Reviews:
·Millenicom
·AT&T Southeast
·Verizon Wireless..
| Re: They still don't allow most of KCMO to register I am sure the Google people negotiating new areas would have few skills in correcting database software. The people doing databases are doing their thing to fix database problems and the new area deal makers are doing their thing to get new subscriber areas. Both can take place simultaneously. | |
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 spewakR.I.P DadkinsPremium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
kudos:1
·SureWest Internet
| Question?? How the F--K does Kansas rate? Of all the f--king states to put this advance network in, they f'ing choose Kansas!!!! Really? Sheiza! 
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Romney equals Epic Fail! | |
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| | | Re: Question?? You might do some research on how large the IT infrastructure in Kansas City and surrounding communities really is. I think you will be very surprised to find out how much of the nation's telecommunications infractructure as a whole depends on the KC area. Then you may understand why it's a logical place to start. | |
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| | | It's going to both KS and MO. They chose KC because of the easy to deal with govts/utilities, less red tape. KC also apparently came up with the best ideas of what to do with it. There are over a dozen longhaul Internet backbone providers in KC with huge pipes. KC area ranks high for Android development. Sprint is based in KC (don't be surprised if Google eventually buys them). Garmin is based in KC. Cerner (major hospital systems developer) is based in KC and came up ideas for the service that Google liked. There are about 3000 tech/IT shops in KC and ranks as a top 10 telcom town.
Maybe they just liked KC after visiting. | |
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1 edit | More on performance Was at the Fiberspace lounge again the other day and we did some more testing. This shows a test of 930Mbps on a single computer to a Google test server within KC area also on Gfiber...
»dl.dropbox.com/u/3812896/Pics/gf···2.26.jpg
When doing Ookla speedtests to external sites, the most that we could do to a single site was 300Mbps as it's apparently the highest Ookla test servers can support.
When we did 4 computers on same fiber segment to 4 different Ookla sites across the country, we were able to pull near 900Mbps total at up to 300Mbps on each computer - other things were active on the link too, like TV. BTW, they only had ChromeOS netbooks directly connected. I was hoping to try a torrent of a Linux distro but the computers were locked down. I wonder if a Chrome browser based torrent extension would install on a locked computer. Might try that next time.
»dl.dropbox.com/u/3812896/Pics/gf···2.05.jpg | |
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See 11 replies to this post |
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 IowaCowboyWant to go back to IowaPremium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA | Lawrence, Kansas If Google fiber expanded into Lawrence, Kansas; then my cousin could get it.
Maybe google would be our last hope of getting FTTH in Springfield, MA since Verizon has all but given up on FiOS. | |
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See 12 replies to this post |
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 kilrathi
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY | lifetime to wait for this this will be maybe rolled to my area by the time i am dead, yea thats my guess. | |
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