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Google Fiber Files For Franchise Application in Tennessee
Chattanooga's successful EPB broadband may not be the only cutting edge fiber network Tennessee residents get to enjoy. According to a report in the Tennessean, Google Fiber has applied for a franchise authority certificate in Tennessee, suggesting that Google is at least laying the framework for a possible launch in the state. Tennessee locals shouldn't get too excited; Google's working with 34 potential cities including Nashville to streamline possible fiber deployment, though only a handful of those will actually be picked for an upcoming Google Fiber launch. Google previously stated they'd announce which of these cities were picked for expansion before the end of 2014.
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rit56
join:2000-12-01
New York, NY

rit56

Member

New York

Carpe diem. You'll never have a more receptive mayor and you will be greeted as victors.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: New York

Costs of digging up those very old streets will never be appealing when you've got so many smaller cities that are much easier and cheaper to upgrade...
existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz

Member

Re: New York

And when you look at the list of potential cities, they seem to be avoiding deep winter cities or heavy union states or both.
bigballer
join:2014-09-25

bigballer

Member

Re: New York

you mean avoiding the cities that already have the most dark fiber?

and don't provo and kansas have fairly mild winters? nothing like buffalo, but certainly no austin.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz

Member

Re: New York

KC is loaded with dark fiber and Google did rent some of it but that doesn't really help the last mile and covering every fiberhood, which is the hardest part.
elefante72
join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

elefante72 to bigballer

Member

to bigballer
MY thinking is that Google wants to be near their major POPs, but if they come into the NE they are in for a fight. While Verizon is asleep at the switch for most of the state, if Google announced they would wake up. If they wanted to do some real damage, Rochester would be the city to do it since it's Frontier.

And while Buffalo proper doesn't have fiber, the burbs do w/ FiOS. The city itself has TONS of fiber, but it's primarily used by businesses. To wire old northeast cities w/ fiber is VERY costly unless they get to some

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop to bigballer

Member

to bigballer
Dark Fiber won't do anything to get faster speeds into the last mile. Dark fiber is almost always excess unused long haul circuits.
davidhoffman
Premium Member
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA

davidhoffman to existenz

Premium Member

to existenz
If one of the goals of Google Fiber is to get the attention of the established ISPs and their legislative friends, why should Google spend more money than it has to. Stay out of the headache areas, but do business where the big established ISPs do work. Gain experience in the easier areas picking off pawns before you decide to directly take on the kings and queens of the ISP world at their main fortifications.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz

Member

Re: New York

Many of the Big ISPs are in KC region, probably more variety than most any metro. There are 10 ISPs in KC metro and a few other majors within broader region (Western MO, E KS). VZ FIOS is the only major not in the region and Google may not feel a need to push them.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt to Karl Bode

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to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode:

so many smaller cities that are much easier and cheaper to upgrade...

And so desperate that they'll bend over backward to help, rather then trying to extract every possible $ (AKA NYC, Boston, etc.)
existenz
join:2014-02-12

4 recommendations

existenz

Member

Re: New York

Cities spend hundreds of millions for sporting venues, performing arts centers, etc, which KC has also done. I doubt they've spent much more than $10M if that on Google Fiber yet Google will be investing hundreds of millions into KC that will be permanent infrastructure, like new rail lines.

In return KC is attracting tech companies to KC (4 from SF Bay Area alone in last year), a new startup village formed and another forming with well funded incubators, Cisco announced its largest Internet of Things project in downtown KC. A local health IT company could've left KC but is building a local $4.5B campus for 15K new high paying jobs that likely wouldn't have happened without presence of Google Fiber that helps them attract tech employees. And this is before Google announced $100 small biz symmetrical Gbit. I'd say that would be worth city giving a few concessions for. But yeah, KC needs the boost more than NYC or Boston.
bigballer
join:2014-09-25

1 recommendation

bigballer

Member

Re: New York

said by existenz:

Cities spend hundreds of millions for sporting venues, performing arts centers, etc, which KC has also done. I doubt they've spent much more than $10M if that on Google Fiber yet Google will be investing hundreds of millions into KC that will be permanent infrastructure, like new rail lines.

In return KC is attracting tech companies to KC (4 from SF Bay Area alone in last year), a new startup village formed and another forming with well funded incubators, Cisco announced its largest Internet of Things project in downtown KC. A local health IT company could've left KC but is building a local $4.5B campus for 15K new high paying jobs that likely wouldn't have happened without presence of Google Fiber that helps them attract tech employees. And this is before Google announced $100 small biz symmetrical Gbit. I'd say that would be worth city giving a few concessions for. But yeah, KC needs the boost more than NYC or Boston.

I would say the rust belt in general needs to gain the jobs they lost during the 80s' and 90s' when companies packed up and moved manufacturing to China.

I don't want to go on about Missouri..... but yeah they need jobs. Crime is a direct response due to lack of opportunity.

But you're right. If the government was any smart, they would subsidize more dark fiber. Fiber is the railroad of the 19th century, the automobile of the 20th century.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz

Member

Re: New York

KC has leaned more white collar for many decades but did lose a lot of manufacturing - not to the degree of rest of Midwest though. Unfortunately even more white collar jobs in KC don't directly help those who lost blue collar jobs.
bigballer
join:2014-09-25

bigballer

Member

Re: New York

Yes, KC did fare better than most of the midwest, but look at the bottom of the barrel: St. Louis, Detroit, Pittsburgh, etc.

No manufacturing jobs, increase in crime rate naturally.

But the question is when you come to these poor state/local governments, how would they even afford to subsidize fiber internet? Some of them can't even afford their own police departments and the feds sure as heck won't subsidize it. They're too busy looking the other way due to comcast's $$$ and fighting someone else's pointless war.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz

Member

Re: New York

said by bigballer:

But the question is when you come to these poor state/local governments, how would they even afford to subsidize fiber internet? Some of them can't even afford their own police departments and the feds sure as heck won't subsidize it. They're too busy looking the other way due to comcast's $$$ and fighting someone else's pointless war.

And this is why the private/public model (Google's model) may be better than pure muni fiber in most cases unless you can get a casino to fund the fiber rollout (like city of North KC was able to do). In the case of KC, only a few $M public investment for every hundred million private investment and you can't easily take away the permanent infrastructure. That's a pretty good deal.

KennyWest
@98.28.97.x

KennyWest

Anon

Re: New York

Google doesn't have private/public model. Their model is built off the citizens begging for service and basically fighting each other on who is going to get it first. And then they force the cities to bend over backwards, give them what they want and take out all of the permitting process while the city is the one for footing 99% of the up front costs except for building the network. That's not a true partnership. It's one company being greedy.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz

Member

Re: New York

KC is giving the exact same concessions to ALL ISPs if they also give back same things Google is, like free Gbit for public spaces. Google helped streamline the process, though isn't perfect. Other ISPs are partly taking advantage and laying out more fiber across KC. They can get other concessions Google has too if providing similar free/cheap services to public places. Google isn't getting exclusive privilege, at least in KCMO.
praetoralpha
join:2005-08-06
Pittsburgh, PA

praetoralpha to bigballer

Member

to bigballer
Pittsburgh exchanged steel mills for an energy boom. Not bad.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz

Member

said by bigballer:

But you're right. If the government was any smart, they would subsidize more dark fiber. Fiber is the railroad of the 19th century, the automobile of the 20th century.

Bingo

KennyWest
@98.28.97.x

KennyWest to bigballer

Anon

to bigballer
There is plenty of dark fiber in the ground from bankrupt companies that are long gone. The fact is nobody knows where most of it is due to poor mapping and companies just closing up and it is left to rot.
rahvin112
join:2002-05-24
Sandy, UT

rahvin112

Member

Re: New York

That is an outright lie.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

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to KennyWest
Source?

KennyWest
@98.28.97.x

KennyWest to existenz

Anon

to existenz
Where is your proof that these companies are moving there due to GF? Actually studies and proof show that cities with Gbit are NOT getting any actual companies moving in. Again, if that was the case, even BoA would be moving into the area for cheap fiber services when in fact they're not. And cite which companies have actually fully moved to KC- actual HQs not offices. And local Health IT companies are all over the country, they don't use companies like GF, they actually lease and purchase their own dark fiber from companies such as AT&T, L3, Comcast, TWC and alike. And a few concessions? Maybe GF should be paying them instead of getting a free ride.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

1 edit

existenz

Member

Re: New York

I'd have to find the articles but the companies that moved to KC I am referring to did reference Google Fiber. Not necessary for them to directly use but for their employees. It's also easier to attract employees using availability of Gbit as an incentive. As far as Healthcare IT, Cerner is the largest developer of software used by most hospitals around world. They have 8K IT related people in KC and plan to add 15K more, building a $4.3B campus that they could've built somewhere else and considered it. They mentioned Google Fiber helps them draw tech minded people as they can work from home with Gbit access into work. GF not likely primary reason but it helps.

Not all are HQ's but some recent who moved/expanded in to KC citing GF as an attraction - Sungevity 600 jobs (solar company), the telepresence device company in a Big Bang Theory episode moved to KC specfiically calling out GF. There are others from Bay Area but don't know names, the article on Sungevity below mentions it. There is a video services company from Dallas moved HQ to KC, specifically to use GF. Nerdery out of Minneapolis is adding 150 developer jobs in KC, mentioning GFiber.
quote:
"Suitable Technolgoies was initially attracted to the Kansas City market because of Google Fiber," said Bob Marcusse, CEO of the KCADC. "But it was the impression the city made on company decision-makers that sealed the deal."
quote:
"This is the fourth company from the (San Francisco) Bay Area that we've recruited in the past year," said development council senior vice president Tim Cowden.
Yeah, is worth city investing a few $M for every hundred million Google Fiber is investing in KC, which is permanent infrastructure even if Google sells it.

»www.bizjournals.com/kans ··· page=all
»www.kansascity.com/news/ ··· 975.html

edit: More announcements can be found in this thread...
»kcrag.com/viewtopic.php? ··· &t=18830

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Re: New York

No one large is moving there because of Google Fiber. Mostly small startups and one man shows are moving there to run businesses out of their homes. Until recently Google has not gone after businesses.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

1 edit

existenz

Member

Re: New York

And no large will, but it already accounts for many well paying jobs and Cisco project, and momentum. Several small companies have been attracted before SMB class was announced and will likely increase now that SMB class is announced. Cerner is definitely a big keeper with 15K job adds planned, partly attributed to GF presence. Sprint is based in KC and shrinking but Cerner is the big tech fish in KC now and they were looking elsewhere. Perceptive Software is another fast growing (owned by Lexmark) and they attribute GF for being able to attract outsider developers to KC. BTW, BATS is also based in KC, they are second largest exchange behind NYSE, yes, bigger than NASDAQ - essentially an IT company.

Google Fiber also has better chance to offer better QoS to SMBs (small/med biz) given the backend has plenty of capacity. As mentioned several times, most Gbit ISPs are sharing 2.5G GPON with many users (below 100M avg) while Google is doing a custom WDM-PON hybrid that allows 800M minimum per sub. That will matter more for SMBs than for residential in near term. And if SMBs are going to use residential infrastructure, it will basically matter for residential as well. Other Gbit ISPs aren't designed for that, including ATT.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt to existenz

Premium Member

to existenz
said by existenz:

Cities spend hundreds of millions for sporting venues, performing arts centers, etc, which KC has also done

I'm not disagreeing, I'd rather seem area gov't invest in infrastructure for the many rather than the few.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz

Member

Re: New York

Which is why KC is offering the same incentives to ALL ISPs, not just Google. Google just kickstarted it.

And don't forget the handouts major ISPs have taken from state level govts. Are you satisfied with the results?

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode to tshirt

News Guy

to tshirt
That too.
hubrisnxs
join:2009-12-30
Fountain Valley, CA

hubrisnxs to rit56

Member

to rit56
Fierce cable is reporting that Google Fiber is in talks to bring it's service to NY via Staten island.
davidhoffman
Premium Member
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA

davidhoffman

Premium Member

Re: New York

Can the borough of Staten Island make that deal all by itself or does it need to go through the entire New York City Council?
Kuro
join:2014-10-01

Kuro

Member

Nashville

Please come to Nashville, I am tired of being stuck with capped Comcast.
biochemistry
Premium Member
join:2003-05-09
92361

biochemistry

Premium Member

Re: Nashville

You have gigabit speeds to look forward to through comcast while so many are thrilled just to get dsl.

King P
Don't blame me. I voted for Ron Paul
Premium Member
join:2004-11-17
Murfreesboro, TN

King P

Premium Member

Re: Nashville

While your statement is true, Comcast (on the whole) is completely overpriced. My service routinely drops to 0Mbps from 8pm-9pm. EVERY day. I pay $100/mo for business class service too.
hubrisnxs
join:2009-12-30
Fountain Valley, CA

hubrisnxs

Member

Are they basing their buildouts on where their relatives live?

If only I lived in Timbuktu

•••
Papageno
join:2011-01-26
Portland, OR

Papageno

Member

Please please please pick PORTLAND, Google

Oh what I'd give...

•••••

King P
Don't blame me. I voted for Ron Paul
Premium Member
join:2004-11-17
Murfreesboro, TN

King P

Premium Member

Maybe it's me...

...but that article sounds pretty definitive, that Google Fiber IS coming to Nashville. Did anyone else get that too?

•••••
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

TN is a telecom tax state

TN imposes higher taxes on telecom svc such as phone & voip.
Heck, they even tax regular groceries... though I suppose its not all bad..

still.. google is somewhat cryptic about where they will build next.
just about none of their interest appears to be in the northeast...
that is troublesome since some of their BIGGEST profits from within the USA come from HERE!! -- just sayin...

••••••
Bob61571
join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL

Bob61571

Member

Al Gore used to live in Belle Meade, a "satellite" city of Nashville

Not sure if he still lives there. It was that big white house, that looks The White House in DC.

I know that Gore has been an "senior adviser" to Google, for a number of years.

gogoogle
@98.66.9.x

gogoogle

Anon

Google

Tennessee is well served by AT&T U-Verse and Comcast unless you are in rural areas so we'll have to see how Google plans on competing against them.

••••
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

$66.48

Currently paying $66.48 for 50/50 symmetric.
I'd gladly pay the extra $3.50 for symmetrical gigabit. I'll be lucky to find another 50 megabit tier for about the same price let alone anything faster.. that means there is market dysfunction. Incumbents seem to think they can get away with offering less value on these entry level plans year over year. Verizon just went back to offering 25/25 on the $79.99 triple play when it should be 50 or 75 megabit symmetric by now. Intead they want at least an extra $50 a month-- on par with that the google price for symmetrical gigbit plus video would be.. more than 10x with google.

Its kind of funny.. oil & gas prices are going down, and yet EVERYTHING else is going up by 15 to 25% in cost.. thanks for NOTHING!! There goes that theory which says the cost of energy dictates the cost of products and services. Maybe it's just front loaded greed.. before they have to bring them down..