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Google Fiber: This Network Building Stuff Takes Time, You Know

In April of last year when Google announced they'd be bringing Google Fiber to Austin, the company stated they expected Austin users to start being hooked up around the middle of 2014. The halfway of the year point has rolled on past, without any new hard deadline for a launch or even the "fiberhood" system they use to determine deployment neighborhoods.

In a new blog post Google's clearly aware of these questions, focusing heavily on how big of a project their deployment in Austin really is, without really offering any new details:
quote:
Our Google Fiber crews are now in the process of building a high-speed network that will one day include more than 3,000 miles of brand new, state-of-the-art fiber optic cables — enough to stretch across the longest Interstate highway in the U.S. (or from Boston to Seattle). Since we don’t use any existing copper cables, we’ve been planning and designing our network from scratch. Today we have a detailed network plan in place and our crews are hard at work constructing the network, starting with the core infrastructure that will form the foundation of Google Fiber in Austin.
In the time since announcing their Austin launch, AT&T and Grande Communications have launched 1 Gbps service in very limited portions of the state. Google also recently swapped out their top Google Fiber boss for former Qualcomm Dennis Kish, in a move some see as a sign that Google is making Google Fiber more of a business and less of a hobby (or, possibly, they weren't entirely happy with former Google Fiber boss Milo Medin).
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existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz

Member

No previous infrastructure or right of ways, so takes time

Was surprising Google said they'd deliver a year or so after Austin announcement given KC was an extra year late just to get first connection and registrations didn't really kick into gear another 6 months after that. A couple Austin connections in 2014 is plausible but 2015 for real deployment is more realistic.

Most major ISPs with city wide deployment have decades of right of ways and infrastructure in place (or bought out someone who did), Google has to start from ground zero. How long did it take cable companies to deploy coax city wide decades ago?

Most civil engineering projects of that scale take a couple years just to do the planning and design.

KennyWest
@98.28.97.x

KennyWest

Anon

Re: No previous infrastructure or right of ways, so takes time

WOW did the same in parts of Cleveland where they didn't have services. They had to go and obtain Pole rights and apply to expand their coverage in Ohio. Only took 6 months. Doesn't take much. Google's issue is they're doing it on the cheap.
davidhoffman
Premium Member
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA

1 recommendation

davidhoffman

Premium Member

Construction takes time.

Once again Google Fiber employees are learning about the real world. Things are easy when you sit inside your WiFi saturated building in California, but not so easy when you actually have to complete a project in the real world. Dust, heat, cold, wind, rain, sleet, snow, water tables, flooding, motor vehicle traffic congestion, and the rest all create delays that experienced ISPs know to factor in to construction plans. GF once again promised more than it could deliver, due to its inexperience. GF will get better at this, as they get more experience in the real world. Austin is already benefiting from the GF presence, as other ISPs in the area are thinking about upgrading their offerings beyond what they previously considered "reasonable".
existenz
join:2014-02-12

1 recommendation

existenz

Member

Re: Construction takes time.

It was surprising they said a year later from announcement but they should have been specific about maybe just a few connections for 2014. Any disciplined project of this scale typically has a 2-3 years planning and engineering phase alone.

Google isn't slow with rollout considering starting from ground zero, they just mismanaged announcing dates. The quality of delivery surprised me, I was expecting a lot of hiccups and service issues first couple years but I have Gfiber and it is far more solid than TWC.
davidhoffman
Premium Member
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA

1 edit

davidhoffman

Premium Member

Re: Construction takes time.

In the 1980's I new a man whose father worked for AT&T. He described how all major projects were coordinated among the various departments. It was rare for the marketing and PR departments to make statements that could not be supported by the engineering and installation teams. The rule was to always under-promise and over deliver. Google has too much history of over-promising and under delivering.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz

Member

Re: Construction takes time.

Yeah, the communication of schedule is the mistake but the end result service is higher quality than other ISPs so they are not under delivering in that sense. It could have been an exercise to entice other ISPs to act quicker - and they did in both KC and Austin.
davidhoffman
Premium Member
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA

davidhoffman

Premium Member

Re: Construction takes time.

Ed Whitacre's statement :"Now what they would like to do is use my pipes free, but I ain't going to let them do that because we have spent this capital and we have to have a return on it," says Whitacre. "So there's going to have to be some mechanism for these people who use these pipes to pay for the portion they're using. Why should they be allowed to use my pipes?", really irritated Google. Going into Austin TX, AT&T's home territory, is the revenge dish served cold.

fg8578
join:2009-04-26
San Antonio, TX

fg8578

Member

Re: Construction takes time.

said by davidhoffman:

Going into Austin TX, AT&T's home territory, is the revenge dish served cold.

Maybe -- but AT&T HQ (at the time Whitacre made his statement) was San Antonio, now it's Dallas.

If google really wanted to poke AT&T in the eye, they would have announced there first, rather than KC or Austin.

No, I think those cities were chosen for other reasons, like being able to work with existing utilities for pole attachments.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

1 edit

existenz

Member

Re: Construction takes time.

Google hasn't been specific on why choosing KC but they've implied it's because KC, KS utilities are run by local govt and the county/city have same unified govt, which has allowed them to fast pace a lot of other projects (before Google) with little red tape. Other KC metro cities have been trying to cut red tape as KCK has structured. Then Google deals with most of rest of KC metro came later.

There are also about 10 ISPs in KC metro and nearly all the major players are in KC region (Western MO to Eastern KS), so Google may have wanted major ISPs to pay attention where nearly all have nearby presence.

Google also said they liked the presentation a local research hospital gave on how they would use it with patients, but that was probably surface fluff. Sprint's based in KC area and has close ties to Google and there are also a lot of Android developers in KC, but probably lesser reason. Austin is a media darling city that has closer ties to Silicon Valley and good research university but KC metro actually has more tech/telcom income/GDP impact than Austin.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina to davidhoffman

Member

to davidhoffman
Clearly that AT&T is long gone. Incumbents have been telling us they'll build fiber everywhere if you just let us keep our monopoly and subsidies.

fg8578
join:2009-04-26
San Antonio, TX

1 edit

fg8578

Member

Re: Construction takes time.

said by rradina:

Clearly that AT&T is long gone. Incumbents have been telling us they'll build fiber everywhere if you just let us keep our monopoly and subsidies.

Really? I would have thought utilities would rather be freed from their universal build-out requirement and then allowed to "cherry-pick" neighborhoods the way google has.

Not that I am accusing google of redlining, just that they are very selective in their build-outs, which monopoly utilities are not free to do.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

1 recommendation

rradina

Member

Re: Construction takes time.

Universal build-out requirements? Since when have they had a universal HSI requirement? In 1998 I've been told DSL is coming soon. Then it was U-Verse. Now it's Gigapower. Since 2000 cable has provided HSI. U-Verse is a block away, in the same subdivision, same income, same houses. In fact, there are even more expensive properties and presumably higher incomes just a bit further down the road with no advanced AT&T services.

fg8578
join:2009-04-26
San Antonio, TX

fg8578

Member

Re: Construction takes time.

said by rradina:

Universal build-out requirements? Since when have they had a universal HSI requirement?

The universal build-out requirements come with acceptance of federal subsides like the Universal Service Fund (USF).

Although USF actually supports POTS build-out to rural and high-cost areas, that same infrastructure is used to provide DSL. In 2011, the FCC modified the USF rules to support broadband (4/1) build-outs, and renamed it the "Connect America Fund" (CAF).

CAF still requires a universal build-out. But a build-out requirement can't change physics. If you are too far away from the DSLAM, no amount of regulation will make it possible to get DSL out to your location.

As far as I know, cable companies are not accepting CAF subsidies to build-out their HFC networks.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

1 recommendation

rradina

Member

Re: Construction takes time.

That isn't carrier of last resort. That's carrot on a stick.

fg8578
join:2009-04-26
San Antonio, TX

fg8578

Member

Re: Construction takes time.

said by rradina:

That isn't carrier of last resort. That's carrot on a stick.

Good point.

COLR is not the same as the universal service obligations that accompany acceptance of USF / CAF subsidy dollars. My original response was to your claim that ISPs would like to keep their monopoly status and subsidy dollars. No doubt they would like to keep the subsidy dollars. But I think they'd give up their monopoly status if they could ditch their COLR obligations with it.

Unfortunately (for them) keeping the money means accepting a COLR-like obligation.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

1 recommendation

sonicmerlin to fg8578

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to fg8578
In what universe were USF requirements ever adhered to, or the money given away ever audited? Do you really think the $100-200 billion dollars given away via the USF over the years was implemented according to guidelines? With that much money we could easily have built a nationwide fiber network by now.

fg8578
join:2009-04-26
San Antonio, TX

fg8578

Member

Re: Construction takes time.

said by sonicmerlin:

In what universe were USF requirements ever adhered to, or the money given away ever audited? Do you really think the $100-200 billion dollars given away via the USF over the years was implemented according to guidelines? With that much money we could easily have built a nationwide fiber network by now.

The reason we don't have a nationwide fiber network is because the USF guidelines were adhered to.

Like I said, USF support was never intended for broadband; it was for POTS. That changed in 2011 when the FCC reformed the USF system to redirect that subsidy towards broadband. As for audits, USF recipients have always been subject to audits. USAC increased its audit frequency early in 2012:

USAC Prepares to Expand and Intensify Audits of USF Participants
existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz to fg8578

Member

to fg8578
said by fg8578:

Not that I am accusing google of redlining, just that they are very selective in their build-outs, which monopoly utilities are not free to do.

Read this thread then describe what you mean by cherry picking as it seems to mean different things to different people...

»Ok for Google but not anyone else

fg8578
join:2009-04-26
San Antonio, TX

fg8578

Member

Re: Construction takes time.

said by existenz:

Read this thread then describe what you mean by cherry picking as it seems to mean different things to different people...

»Ok for Google but not anyone else

By "cherry-picking" I mean (as I said) doing whatever google is doing.

google isn't redlining, exactly, but they are letting potential customers decide whether or not they want google service. This is an interesting way to overcome the incumbents' "first mover" advantage. Because google has no universal build-out requirement, they don't have to invest capital with very little hope of a return. They know in advance which "fiberhoods" are likely to subscribe to their service.

I'm sure other incumbents like Comcast and AT&T would love to follow such a model.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz

Member

Re: Construction takes time.

Well they are doing 95% of KCMO and asked the other 5% many times, that's not really cherry picking and there is no other ISP doing 100% of KCMO so not sure what you mean.
WhatNow
Premium Member
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC

WhatNow

Premium Member

Re: Construction takes time.

If that 5% had voted for GF in their fiberhood then GF would be 100%. Those 5% choose themselves not to take GF.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

1 recommendation

existenz

Member

Re: Construction takes time.

Exactly, that's not ISP cherry picking. Meanwhile ATT Uverse is in my zip but not on my street and they didn't ask us if we wanted it.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA to davidhoffman

Premium Member

to davidhoffman
Google also isn't a 110+ year old telco who built massive copper networks, and built and maintained nationwide infrastructure through the Cold War to, in some cases, survive nuclear attack. Totally different beast here.

PRmachine
@73.160.110.x

PRmachine to existenz

Anon

to existenz
said by existenz:

Google isn't slow with rollout considering starting from ground zero, they just mismanaged announcing dates. The quality of delivery surprised me, I was expecting a lot of hiccups and service issues first couple years but I have Gfiber and it is far more solid than TWC.

Google is a PR Marketing behemoth and not an ISP like Comcast. Their experience in actual physical rollouts is poor. So, of course, their marketing arm overpromises every step of the way. And they expect all the Google lovers to blog their lies and not their actual results.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz

Member

Re: Construction takes time.

What lies have 'Google lovers' posted, about GFiber that is.

PRmachine
@73.160.110.x

PRmachine

Anon

Re: Construction takes time.

said by existenz:

What lies have 'Google lovers' posted, about GFiber that is.

They posted every pronouncement by Google on promised delivery dates as if it was gospel, and then attacked anyone who scoffed at Google's empty promises.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz

Member

Re: Construction takes time.

I haven't seen that and have often posted about Google's overly optimistic dates in Austin. They haven't overpromised on the actual core service as it far exceeds other ISPs, the support too.
WhatNow
Premium Member
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC

WhatNow

Premium Member

Re: Construction takes time.

Google goofed up but how many huge projects can anyone name that meet the first announced date. If a big project does that it is rare. When it comes too the communication industry even their engineering and construction seldom make their deadlines and the have generations of experience. GF has only been around long enough too just get out of diapers. If it was so easy then ATT should be turning Gigapower on in most of Austin by the end of 2014. If you are in ATT territory SOME of you that were mad you did not get Uverse may get Gigapower. And nobody would be getting Gigapower this soon if GF had not gone to KC.
JasonBourne
join:2000-05-22
Kansas City, MO

1 recommendation

JasonBourne to PRmachine

Member

to PRmachine
»result.googlefiber.net/s ··· 0369.png

Keep the lies coming then I say, because I like these results.
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

jjeffeory to PRmachine

Member

to PRmachine
Which lies, "PRmachine".... »whatmyip.co/view/ip_addr ··· .110.255

Oh, hey, someone from Comcast! Hai there, spreading your B.S.!
dfxmatt
join:2007-08-21
Crystal Lake, IL

dfxmatt to davidhoffman

Member

to davidhoffman
Is this meant to be some random dig on google, that you think they have no clue how to do a fiber buildout or something?
davidhoffman
Premium Member
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA

davidhoffman

Premium Member

Re: Construction takes time.

No hate toward Google from me. I just saw how the early analysis of the situation went bad. One big example was Google indicating they wanted to run the fiber up high on poles near the actual electric power cables. Dangerous idea. Google might have thought they would be avoiding pole fees by doing that. It took some time but the safety and liability issues finally persuaded them to go low on the poles like other telecommunication systems did. The other miscue was selecting KCKS over KCMO. KCKS ended up having to significantly change its offer to Google, due to bad analysis by the city. KCMO took a tougher stance with Google from the start, but ended up with the model contract first.

DocDrew
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join:2009-01-28
SoCal
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DocDrew

Premium Member

Creative fiber measuring?

I wonder how Google is counting those 3000 miles of fiber.... is the 288 strand count fiber cable running for 1 mile count as 1 mile of fiber or 288 miles of fiber? Just active fiber or dark fiber too?

P.S. When does DSLReports open it's own Google Fiber Forum?

•••••
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

public interest NOT served

ATT and CenturyTel are the primary culprits for the lack of broadband competition & deployments. Without that competitive puzzle piece, many cable companies have grown fat and complacent on a monopoly. The economic incentive is there to build, but telcos have long since figured out that the public interest doesn't have to be honored due to lack of enforcement by regulators. Lets not forget, letting Telcos into the cable-tv business was PREDICATED on deployment of next generation networks.. The two companies mentioned above do have plenty to answer for when it comes to that... it flies in the face of the 1996-onward legislation.

Letting ATT buy DirecTv flies in the face of the 1996 legislation. ATT should not be allowed to profit from cable-tv revenues if they don't build a fiber network to the premise.
WhatNow
Premium Member
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC

WhatNow

Premium Member

May get your wish

I am glad GF is doing what they are doing which is also pushing other companies like ATT to move to FTTH faster. The biggest problem I have will Google be able to see every 0&1 I send down the fiber. This forum hit the ceiling over ATT deep inspection of data is Google doing the same thing. If GF moves fast enough with their fiber builds will their be any other choice in 10 years. What is the take rate in KC K/M and are the other companies going to fold up shop because they don't have enough customers to stay in business. Could Google Fiber turn into Comcast 10 years from now?

fiosultimate
join:2014-06-09
San Antonio, TX

fiosultimate

Member

Re: May get your wish

Gf is just a short term experiment that will soon fold

g00g1sexxxx
@144.160.98.x

g00g1sexxxx to WhatNow

Anon

to WhatNow
said by WhatNow:

This forum hit the ceiling over ATT deep inspection of data is Google doing the same thing.

But.. it's google... it's more sexy if they do it.

Astyanax
Premium Member
join:2002-11-14
Melbourne, FL

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Astyanax

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Austin's Electric Company

Do they call the electric company there Austin Powers?