dslreports logo
 story category
Google Hijacking 404 Pages?
There's money in them thar 404s...

As we've been discussing, a vast majority of ISPs these days have hijacked DNS functionality by replacing traditional page-not-found errors with their own customized search portals. This turns mistyped URLs into a revenue stream by directing their attention toward ad partners. Because this is something that only annoys more technical users (who say it disrupts the functionality of certain tools), most ISP marketing departments disregard the complaints of these users (and in some cases their own networking staff).

Click for full size
In somewhat related news, some webmasters this morning are annoyed by the fact that the latest version of the Google Toolbar replaces the custom 404 page from the website you're on with a Google version. Webmasters in turn fear that this will direct users away from the website they're currently browsing.
quote:
The “new” 404 error page ‘conveniently’ includes a Google search box and if used by a visitor will drive the visitor away from your website. Even worse - the search box is pre-populated with data from the initial URL query on your website. Imagine a situation where kind of sensitive data is send to Google that way.
Additional webmaster discussion can be found at the DigitalPoint forums, though there is some indication that this is all much ado about nothing.
view:
topics flat nest 
page: 1 · 2 · next
jc10098
join:2002-04-10

jc10098

Member

Drum roll to stupidity

And you'd be running a spyware laden toolbar why? Anyone using these toolbars deserve what they get... My god... COMMON SENSE PEOPLE!!
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: Drum roll to stupidity

said by jc10098:

And you'd be running a spyware laden toolbar why? Anyone using these toolbars deserve what they get... My god... COMMON SENSE PEOPLE!!
It does NOT have spyware on it. Lucky Google won't bother to sue you.

I've used MANY MANY spyware programs and NONE have had google toolbar come up as spyware. hmmmmmmmm. google must be paying them off.

swhx7
Premium Member
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia

swhx7

Premium Member

Re: Drum roll to stupidity

It reports the user's web activity data to Google. That's spyware according to some definitions.

It is done with permission, and is removable, and some people therefore exclude it from the "spyware" category, because deception or hard-to-remove is part of their criteria for spyware.

But there is no legal rule forcing anyone to use one definition rather than the other. Both are reasonable. Therefore Google would have no grounds for a suit. Google actually has to insist on a more lenient definition in order to deny that its toolbar is spyware.

Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA

3 recommendations

Jerm to 88615298

Member

to 88615298

DHRacer
Tech Monkey
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA

DHRacer

Member

Re: Drum roll to stupidity

What's really scary is that I've seen computers with about half that many toolbars, but that's still too many.

patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88

Member

Re: Drum roll to stupidity

I have a friend who loves Bonzi Buddy........... says its cute

Beyond hope for me.
FrankO07
Best Day Ever
Premium Member
join:2007-08-16
Toledo, OH

1 recommendation

FrankO07 to Jerm

Premium Member

to Jerm
All those toolbars - is that for real??

antdude
Matrix Ant
Premium Member
join:2001-03-25
US

antdude

Premium Member

Re: Drum roll to stupidity

said by FrankO07:

All those toolbars - is that for real??
Probably on computer illiterates.

fdasf
@comcast.net

fdasf to Jerm

Anon

to Jerm
Hahaha... thats hilarious, look at all those toolbars. You are actually missing the AOL toolbar and the MSN toolbar

Rogue Wolf
An Easy Draw of a Sad Few
join:2003-08-12
Troy, NY

Rogue Wolf

Member

Re: Drum roll to stupidity

The Alexia toolbar probably ate them. Look at the way it's eyeing that eBay toolbar....
19579823 (banned)
An Awesome Dude
join:2003-08-04

19579823 (banned)

Member

Re: Drum roll to stupidity

Only people that dont know anything about computers are confused by SEARCH BARS/ADDRESS BARS.......
threetrolls
join:2003-04-19
Bellevue, WA

threetrolls to Jerm

Member

to Jerm
Thanks for the laugh.

What happens when there is no space for the web page? Does something explode? Here is a link to a few toolbars you don't have. I say go for it.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toolbar

roc5955
Premium Member
join:2005-11-26
Rosendale, NY

1 recommendation

roc5955 to Jerm

Premium Member

to Jerm
OMG!!! You like a little browser with your toolbars, huh?
cornelius785
join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA

cornelius785 to jc10098

Member

to jc10098
since i've had no problems using the internet without tool bars for ~10 years, i don't see why i should ever install one. if people are getting annoyed from what google tool bar is doing, then UNINSTALL it. you may not have control on what your ISP is doing, but you have the control uninstall software that is on your own computer that is altering whatever.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: Drum roll to stupidity

I agree... I get almost every app attempting to 'add' a toolbar on my browser. Why ? Well obviously they make money somehow. If its not from reselling the info collected by your surfing habits, its through ads or selling the info collected by you using their toolbar's associated search engine. Nobody does this just as a basic enhancement... its all about money.

Dogfather
Premium Member
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Dogfather

Premium Member

Tough

Users CHOOSE to run Google toolbar just as they would choose to run AV software, script blockers or ad blockers.

IOW, this isn't Google's doing or an ISP's doing.

This is a CHOICE by the user.

Sabre
Di relung hatiku bernyanyi bidadari
join:2005-05-17

1 recommendation

Sabre

Member

Re: Tough

This is entirely true.

However, bear in mind that the Google toolbar comes pre-checked with a LOT of common software. While forced opt-out software is indeed a choice, it's the kind of loaded choice that often seems like foistware.

Is it a choice? Yes, but it often doesn't feel that way.

Dogfather
Premium Member
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Dogfather

Premium Member

Re: Tough

Still the user's call.

If the USER doesn't like it, the USER can uninstall it.

Sabre
Di relung hatiku bernyanyi bidadari
join:2005-05-17

Sabre

Member

Re: Tough

Absolutely. I can't disagree with you at all on that. I merely don't like the precedent of opt-outs in general (I'd rather see it as opt-in). Legally, certainly Google isn't doing anything wrong, though I think it's a bit touchy ethically. (And in their defence, they're better at advertising its presence in a bundle than a lot of other companies are.)

Dogfather
Premium Member
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Dogfather

Premium Member

Re: Tough

Me neither, especially when they're hidden like we saw with Real Players selections. Real Networks would have a sliding window and the visible components were all unchecked but if you slid down you would find all the spam components checked.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: Tough

I personally dislike that style as well.
While not illegal, somewhat misleading by design.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to Dogfather

Premium Member

to Dogfather
said by Dogfather:

Still the user's call.

If the USER doesn't like it, the USER can uninstall it.
I agree, it is a choice to uninstall it. But there is a problem. Google is now, BY DEFAULT, being installed somewhat sneakily(just like scumware companies do) with other products.

And I find it very amusing that others are defending this practice. The very same people who did and would be screaming bloody murder when Verizon or Comcast did the same exact thing.

S_engineer
Premium Member
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

S_engineer

Premium Member

Re: Tough

Does anybody remember the stink over Webroots decision to declassify 180 solutions as adware or malware?
Now does everyone see how this practice has become more prevelant on the web, even with the "Internet defenders" like google.
Take it even further TK, why is this in anyway acceptable when the NSA eavsdropping is not?

Malware and click stream data mining is ok as long as it's for marketing purposes, but use it to try and prevent disaster and look out!

Priorities people.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9 to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
You should realize that the Zealots around here believe that Google can do no wrong. Obviously this effort is Google's attempt to save the Internet, one tool bar at a time.
darbacour
join:2005-04-13
Los Angeles, CA

darbacour to Sabre

Member

to Sabre
said by Sabre:

This is entirely true.

However, bear in mind that the Google toolbar comes pre-checked with a LOT of common software. While forced opt-out software is indeed a choice, it's the kind of loaded choice that often seems like foistware.

Is it a choice? Yes, but it often doesn't feel that way.
Absolutely TRUE.

A few years ago, I had a CrapCast tech accidentally install the Google toolbar when he updated my Java to run a speed-test at DSL Reports.

Damn I was hot until I realized Java updates always come with the wonderful offer of a stupid Google toolbar pre-checked and being a CrapCast tech I couldn't possibly expect him to be smart enough to uncheck it.

swhx7
Premium Member
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia

swhx7 to Dogfather

Premium Member

to Dogfather
Having 404's replaced isn't a choice on the part of the user unless the toolbar tells the user that's what it's going to do. If the user doesn't realize that the site's own 404 is being intercepted and suppressed, then Google is interfering in the user's communications in a deceptive way.

Sabre
Di relung hatiku bernyanyi bidadari
join:2005-05-17

1 recommendation

Sabre

Member

Google needs to step back

I've been growing more and more annoyed with Google and their toolbar over the past several months. It keeps showing up, pre-checked, in an ever larger number of software installs (Java and Flash Player come to mind immediately). I've been uninstalling it from our work computers on sight - usually after it hard-locks IE while running in the background looking for an update.
Now this. Google's getting so big and powerful that they're starting to forget a little of the user-friendliness and unobtrusiveness that drove so many people to them in the first place. Google, you have always had a good thing going. Step back before you ruin it.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: Google needs to step back

said by Sabre:

I've been growing more and more annoyed with Google and their toolbar over the past several months. It keeps showing up, pre-checked, in an ever larger number of software installs (Java and Flash Player come to mind immediately). I've been uninstalling it from our work computers on sight - usually after it hard-locks IE while running in the background looking for an update.
Now this. Google's getting so big and powerful that they're starting to forget a little of the user-friendliness and unobtrusiveness that drove so many people to them in the first place. Google, you have always had a good thing going. Step back before you ruin it.
I get yahoo toolbar coming up pre-checked in more and more things. CCleaner, Adobe Acrobat are 2 examples.

INT0CABLE
BANNED
Premium Member
join:2007-10-22
Bronx, NY

INT0CABLE

Premium Member

is this why?

i havent seen a 404 page error in years? eventhough im a shabby typer?

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI

Nightfall

MVM

Easy fix

Uninstall google toolbar
Problem solved

Raptor
Not a Dumptruck
join:2001-10-21
London, ON

Raptor

Member

Re: Easy fix

Such a complex and technical fix. I think we should go on and on about how terrible this is instead

••••

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

1 recommendation

battleop

Member

This is a BETA feature.

I just downloaded the Google Toolbar to a VMWare box to see if it's really doing this. With the current version of the tool bar I went to a url that does not exist on one of our websites and got the 404 error page I expected. Then I installed the version 5 beta and went to the same url and got the Google generated 404 error.

nklb
Premium Member
join:2000-11-17
Ann Arbor, MI

1 recommendation

nklb

Premium Member

The article is confused...

said by dslreports article :
As we've been discussing, a vast majority of ISPs these days have hijacked DNS functionality by replacing traditional 404 page not found error pages with their own customized search portals. This turns mistyped URLs into a revenue stream by directing their attention toward ad partners.
Um, those are two completely separate concepts.

If you are unable to resolve a domain name, DNS doesn't return a "404" error. It simply returns a response that the domain name doesn't exist.

404 errors are returned by a web server when a specific page doesn't exist.

If you type a domain that doesn't exist, there is no web server to return a 404!
jp10558
Premium Member
join:2005-06-24
Willseyville, NY

jp10558

Premium Member

Slight Modification should be made

I've been using Proxomitron to replace 404 pages for, boy, 7 years now. And it just make's it look matrix like. Google makes it a little more useful.

However, there seems to be one major difference with the filters I use. If the site does return a customized 404 error page, I see that, but if it's just whatever the browser would generate, I get the "cool" 404 page. Now, it seems to me that most sites are not generating custom 404, so maybe this doesn't work like I think it does (that is, sites are creating page not found pages, but not sending a 404 error code?). If that's the case, sites can do the same for google if they care.

If it's in the prox filter, then google ought to default to that with an option for users to do what it is doing now.

odreian615
join:2006-01-18
Chicago, IL

odreian615

Member

But it does nothing wrong

Google does nothing wrong
wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH

1 recommendation

wentlanc

Member

Just like AdBlockers

This is the choice of the user. The web developer can be as pissed as they want to, but what I choose to put on my machine to customize MY internet is my choice.

Just like ad blockers. Developers are pissed about them too because less people may click on their ads to help pay for the site. I've never clicked one, and I don't intend to, so I removed them completely to save the bandwidth, and my eyeballs. I'm allowed to customize my experience on the internet, right?

Every company out there is looking to gain from ads. From web developers, all the way up to DNS providers. (See Neustar below) Ultimately, it is the end users choice to determine what they WANT to see on their desktop. And all content providers are looking to get their ads in front of the user by any means possible.

»biz.yahoo.com/prnews/071 ··· tml?.v=1

»www.dnsadvantage.com/

••••••

compugeek0
Premium Member
join:2002-07-30
localhost

compugeek0

Premium Member

I just installed it

It does do 404 and DNS redirection. But if you look in the page they give you there is a link on why am I seeing this that will take you to another page to disable the feature. So to me this is a none issue.

Geek

Jameson
Premium Member
join:2004-05-28
united state

Jameson

Premium Member

I dont see any advertisments

So whats the problem?

laserjobs
Premium Member
join:2004-05-02
Las Vegas, NV

laserjobs

Premium Member

Not great google

This actually pisses me off that I ended up spending time designing a nice 404 error page for my site visitors to get them back on the right track. As far as I am concerned, Google is performing a man in the middle attack on my website trying to deliver a 404 error page.

•••
ATHF
join:2004-12-20
00000

ATHF

Member

google

google should just release DNS servers

if they are the keepers of the internet
they be a good dns provider
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88

Member

Re: google

I hope thats sarcasm.

TechyDad
Premium Member
join:2001-07-13
USA

TechyDad

Premium Member

I need to test this...

My work site is all one big customized 404 error page. It uses the customized 404 error page, along with the URL requested, to figure out what content the user wanted and to display it for them. If this interferes with custom 404 error pages, this might interfere with my entire website. It looks like I'll need to set up the Google Toolbar (in a sandbox, of course), to see what, if anything, it does.

••••

quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium Member
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI

quetwo

Premium Member

Do no evil?

Heh. Sure. Whatever you say.

joako
Premium Member
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null

joako

Premium Member

Old news?

Microsoft Internet Explorer has been doing this for YEARS.

NOCMan
MadMacHatter
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO

NOCMan

Premium Member

The irony

IIRC Google sued because people were trying to do that to them and now they're doing it to others.

So now webmasters will sue Google for overwriting webpages.

Worse is some sites have reporting links on 404's so they can be notified of problems. Course those with "Toolbars" installed are most likely not the types to help fix a webpage.

Smith6612
MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY

Smith6612

MVM

Doesn't bother me...

Another reason why I don't use Google software on any of my computers.
19579823 (banned)
An Awesome Dude
join:2003-08-04

1 edit

19579823 (banned)

Member

 

Certain ISPs are doing this also......

You enter an invalid URL and you get a custom search page FROM THE ISP (Some of them allow you to OPT OUT luckily!)
page: 1 · 2 · next