  kapilThe Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | Go to Hell, Google So, to prevent Google from stealing my data, I have to spend time and effort modifying my network and touching each and every device that connects to my wireless network?
Fuck off.
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»www.kapilville.com | |
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 | kaila
join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL | Re: Go to Hell, Google Are you running an open wifi network? | |
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| | kapilThe Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | Re: Go to Hell, Google I have multiple SSIDs...one for personal use that's locked down and one I keep open for anyone to use.
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»www.kapilville.com | |
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| Re: Go to Hell, Google said by kapil:I have multiple SSIDs...one for personal use that's locked down and one I keep open for anyone to use.
If I were you I would be more concerned about the potential pedophile down the road using your 'open' wifi to download porn on your internet connection rather than Google mapping hot-spots.
Dave | |
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| | | | kapilThe Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | Re: Go to Hell, Google I've never understood that line of reasoning. How many pedophiles do you think there are just wandering about. Or if the concentration really is that high in your neighborhood, might I suggest you look into relocating.
I have an open SSID on purpose. I *want* information and access to it to be free. I want my neighbors and random strangers to be able to use it. It's a deliberate choice. It's my own way of revolting against the Big Brother state where everyone and everything is locked down and tracked, controlled with threats of legal penalties, secret courts, warrant-less arrests, or violations of "acceptable use" or provider service agreements.
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»www.kapilville.com | |
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| Re: Go to Hell, Google said by kapil:I've never understood that line of reasoning. How many pedophiles do you think there are just wandering about. Or if the concentration really is that high in your neighborhood, might I suggest you look into relocating.
I have an open SSID on purpose. I *want* information and access to it to be free. I want my neighbors and random strangers to be able to use it. It's a deliberate choice. It's my own way of revolting against the Big Brother state where everyone and everything is locked down and tracked, controlled with threats of legal penalties, secret courts, warrant-less arrests, or violations of "acceptable use" or provider service agreements.
Seriously?
»mapsexoffenders.com/
Dave | |
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| | | | | | kapilThe Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | Re: Go to Hell, Google We're getting off-track here but...
1. Sex offender is not the same thing as a pedophile. But someone I knew that you're the type that conflate the two.
2. This national fascination we have with castigating sex offenders for the remainder of their lives, after they've paid their debt to society is immoral, unethical and unconstitutional. Lifetime registration, mandatory disclosure, preventing or limiting where they can live and work...if that doesn't meet the 'cruel and unusual' standard, I don't know what does.
People who rape children and such are despicable human beings...but everyone deserves a shot at redemption...especially in a nation where people can't seem the shut the hell up about being "blessed" and being the "greatest nation" on Earth etc.
Also, lumping in a guy who raped a child with a guy who, at 18 years of age, got in trouble for sexing his 16 year old girlfriend defies logic and reason.
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»www.kapilville.com | |
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| Re: Go to Hell, Google said by kapil:We're getting off-track here but...
1. Sex offender is not the same thing as a pedophile. But someone I knew that you're the type that conflate the two.
2. This national fascination we have with castigating sex offenders for the remainder of their lives, after they've paid their debt to society is immoral, unethical and unconstitutional. Lifetime registration, mandatory disclosure, preventing or limiting where they can live and work...if that doesn't meet the 'cruel and unusual' standard, I don't know what does.
People who rape children and such are despicable human beings...but everyone deserves a shot at redemption...especially in a nation where people can't seem the shut the hell up about being "blessed" and being the "greatest nation" on Earth etc.
Also, lumping in a guy who raped a child with a guy who, at 18 years of age, got in trouble for sexing his 16 year old girlfriend defies logic and reason.
Yeah, your right. But, all pedophiles are sex offenders and not all sex offenders are guys like me who had an underage girlfriend.
My point is any and all of them are more of a threat to you via your unsecured WiFi than Google ever will be.
But if you want to assume they are all just trying to get on with their lives after paying their debt it's your decision.
Dave | |
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| | | | | | | Okay...so dont care who is logging onto your network. At least care about those they are misleading...after all, if they are clever enough its you who will be served up to your local prison inmates for some good ole fashioned sexual deviance. Really. Its facts. Pedophiles (forget the damn sex register) are abusing children through unsecured networks JUST LIKE YOURS. While I cant say yours for definte I can say its only a matter of time. In that regards you will be as responsibnle for that damage as the perpatrator. WORD OF LIFE.
Its more than just pedo's and sex offenders. Your also opening a gate for malicous users to hide their tracks as they hack others and steal form others.
So basically, if you cant lock it down because you think everyone should be able to do whatever they want on the net. Dont cry when they lock you down, as now you are PHYSICALLY aware of the exploits you are assisting. You can actually be charged as an accomplis now and all you did was try and share this beautiful thing called the internet.
Grow up and see that by being 'nice' you are not only endangering yourself but others as well. Isnt that worth locking your signal down ...or are their other motives that you havent disclosed here?
Im not saying EVERYONE else around you is bad news but you can bet someone around you may have less than desirable intentions.
I do agree that Google went WAY to far and in their own way helps promote the same criminal activity someone who leaves their network unsecured does. AND YES, THEY SHOULD SERVE SOME TIME FOR IT!!! | |
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| | | | | | he did not do that, he has his own high speed connection. | |
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| | | | | | if a forensic search of your hard drive yields no evidence of child porn, I think it would be hard to prosecute that. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Go to Hell, Google Again...you are an accomplis if you have become aware of the exploit and do nothing to adjust your setttings to prevent such use. Suks, but thats law son. | |
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| tpkatl
join:2009-11-16
Dacula, GA | Trivially easy to fake a MAC address in every router Given that it is trivial to falsify a MAC address in a router, my own bit of payback is to fake a new MAC address every couple of weeks. That way Google will have lots of meaningless data polluting their file, which reduces its value.
And the side benefit is that by changing MAC addresses from time to time, I get new IP addresses assigned by Comcast, meaning that anyone trying to track me by IP address is going to have that much additional trouble doing so. Not impossible, of course, but one more hurdle to climb. | |
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| | kapilThe Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | Re: Trivially easy to fake a MAC address in every router LOL. I did some consulting work around "reputation management" and that was one of the primary strategies to overcome negative online information...clutter up the search results with fake content to obfuscate and drown out the negative stuff. It works much better than trying to send out DMCA notices and lawsuit threats to every no-name website out there.
Isn't changing the MAC address every few days too much work though? I wish there was a way to script it...
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»www.kapilville.com | |
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| | openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | said by tpkatl:Given that it is trivial to falsify a MAC address in a router, my own bit of payback is to fake a new MAC address every couple of weeks. Does Google drive by your house every couple of weeks? I honestly don't understand people's concern with this trivial collection of data. Beyond someone knowing the general vicinity of the "Hot-Stud-27" SSID, I don't understand the problem. | |
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| | | | | Re: Trivially easy to fake a MAC address in every router said by tpkatl:... "Hot-Stud-27" SSID...
PRICELESS...how long did it take for dude to go and change his SSID after posting it on the net? | |
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| |  GbcueP.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8 | This wouldn't do anything as I'm sure the Google street view car doesn't roll down your street every couple of weeks...
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My Blog 2.2 | |
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| | |  koolman2Premium
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK | Re: Trivially easy to fake a MAC address in every router The database is also self-healing. Devices that use the database transmit the networks they see, and if one that *should* be there stops showing up for a while, it gets deleted. | |
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| | | | MAC address on the WiFi radio, not the WAN side | |
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| | | | I hate to break it to you but it will probably be 5 to 10 years before Google drives by your house again. | |
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·Comcast
| Re: Trivially easy to fake a MAC address in every router said by battleop:I hate to break it to you but it will probably be 5 to 10 years before Google drives by your house again.
The bastidges did my neighborhood and didn't do my street. Class Action of One!
Dave | |
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| | | | | That's what I thought, but I've had three Street View updates in 7 years. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Trivially easy to fake a MAC address in every router You are also closer to the Google mother ship. I would suspect your more frequent updates are more about R&D than street view accuracy. | |
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| | |  SeleniaI love DebianPremium
join:2006-09-22
Lanesboro, MA
kudos:2
1 edit | said by battleop:I hate to break it to you but it will probably be 5 to 10 years before Google drives by your house again.
You seem not to quite understand how their system works. They use a self-healing database. Basically, what Google did with the wardriving is get an extensive, professionally gathered snapshot to load into it. Now, with mobile apps that use Google's location services, the gps and agps data is gathered and associated with access points present at that location by MAC address and SSID. New APs found in that location get added, SSIDs associated with MAC addresses get updated. Now, if that MAC and SSID keeps being reported as not present, when it should be in that location, the AP then gets purged from the DB. If it ever starts showing up again, it can readd it. Automated technology at its finest, but always come with it privacy issues to be considered.
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A fool thinks they know everything.
A wise person knows enough to know they couldn't possibly know everything.
There are zealots for every OS, like every religion. They do not represent the majority of users for either. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Trivially easy to fake a MAC address in every router That's provided that there are people running the AP and they have WiFi turned on. Even at that you still don't get the location of the AP you get the location of the device that can hear the AP.
I still don't understand what all the fuss is about. So your SSID ends up on a map. So what? If you don't want people seeing your SSID or using your wireless secure it or turn it off. | |
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| | | | |  ThalerPremium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3 | Re: Trivially easy to fake a MAC address in every router One, hiding your SSID offers no security for someone who can read a FAQ. That safety protocol has long since been broken.
Second, your SSID is broadcasted regardless of your wireless security. That string value that has the name of your WiFi network? Yeah, there's no password required for that.
Now, if you want to restrict the number of people actually using your wireless network, then yes - securing your AP will let you be more selective as to who connects. | |
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| | | | | SeleniaI love DebianPremium
join:2006-09-22
Lanesboro, MA
kudos:2 | 1 indirect implication here on DSLR is now people shouldn't even show screenshots with their SSID. Some say, stalker could search the DB with that info and get your approximate or exact address, if yours is unique in your town. The more information tied to your vital info, the less privacy. | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: Trivially easy to fake a MAC address in every router Mine is "heya-wardrivers" now good luck taking that and finding my house. | |
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| openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | Re: Go to Hell, Google So you didn't give your time and effort to configure your network to prevent others from "stealing" your data? | |
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| | | That is a great SSID !!
Google_FUCK OFF
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Splat | |
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| | | | Re: Go to Hell, Google No, its GOOGLE_FUCK OFF_nomap | |
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| | | SeleniaI love DebianPremium
join:2006-09-22
Lanesboro, MA
kudos:2 | Re: Go to Hell, Google Great SSID, but maybe people can start changing it to that without the _nomap. Wouldn't it be ironic if that started appearing all over Google's map? I should make it GOOGLE_PISS_OFF just to avoid offending some friendly, rich, elderly people in range of my network signal, but I doubt I'll do that at home. Nope, just put a high power AP in my car and tether it to my mifi. Change spoofed MACs occasionally and secure it. Mifis are low range and not sure but I don't think they spoof a MAC, however, this thing would blast with an antenna I already have mounted in the trunk. Might prove useful, too as it should penetrate buildings I park in the vicinity of. How is that for database pollution LMAO!
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A fool thinks they know everything.
A wise person knows enough to know they couldn't possibly know everything.
There are zealots for every OS, like every religion. They do not represent the majority of users for either. | |
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|  MaxoYour tax dollars at work.Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL | said by kapil:So, to prevent Google from stealing my data, I have to spend time and effort modifying my network and touching each and every device that connects to my wireless network?
Fuck off.
You clearly didn't read. Nowhere did anyone say that appending _nomap would key to them that they wouldn't sniff (steal?) your data. They said they wouldn't include the SSID + lat/long in their database. Given that the broadcast of your SSID is publicly available information, it's neither stealing nor "your" data.
Nice use of hyperbole though.
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"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter
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»www.facebook.com/maxolasersquad | |
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|  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | said by kapil:So, to prevent Google from stealing my data, I have to spend time and effort modifying my network and touching each and every device that connects to my wireless network?
Fuck off.
Or you could try not broadcasting your data on an open unsecured network so that ANYONE can "steal" your data. BTW it's not stealing if you're TRANSMITTING it out into the air.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| |  syslockPremium
join:2007-02-03
Honolulu, HI
·Time Warner Cable
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Go to Hell, Google said by KrK:said by kapil:So, to prevent Google from stealing my data, I have to spend time and effort modifying my network and touching each and every device that connects to my wireless network?
Fuck off.
Or you could try not broadcasting your data on an open unsecured network so that ANYONE can "steal" your data. BTW it's not stealing if you're TRANSMITTING it out into the air. Exactly. Anyone with a laptop can drive up and down the road
and capture all kinds of wireless info... including
routers, LRT and PDT info from the big box stores, etc...
If your transmitting it into the air its fair game.
Skyhook wireless has an application on their site looking for
drivers to drive around with their equipment to populate their
database. Its not just google driving around trying to feed
their databases of info that they are reselling for big profits.
Its all about what information you have and what you can sell it for. | |
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| ThalerPremium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
1 edit | How are they stealing information that you're freely transmitting to everyone 24/7?
I guess Google Earth is also stealing everyone's visual information as well without consent. | |
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| RaydrPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-19
Carrollton, TX | said by kapil:So, to prevent Google from stealing my data said by kapil:I *want* information and access to it to be free. Uhm...how can Google steal something from you that you *want* and specifically set to be free? | |
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| ThalerPremium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3 | My SSID has my address. Now people who know where I live...well, will know where I live. | |
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rmdir
join:2003-03-13
Chicago, IL | an alternative Why don't they make it opt in instead? If the SSID doesn't include _maprouter, then it doesn't get added. If it's such a good thing I'm sure everyone will want to be included. | |
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|  RobIn Deo speramus.Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3 | Re: an alternative said by rmdir:Why don't they make it opt in instead? If the SSID doesn't include _maprouter, then it doesn't get added. If it's such a good thing I'm sure everyone will want to be included.
Because that would make too much sense..
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|  LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 | A PR solution by Google. Nobody is going to bother doing this method. So Google claims they did good knowing it won't affect their collection of SSID's at all.
And what about other map vendors like Bing Maps? They have their own data collection vendors. Will they use the Google method or will they want their own opt-out method. | |
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 n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY | Surprise! Granted, many of the people shocked and bothered by the fact that Google is collecting publicly available data from unsecured hotspots may not know how to change their SSID name in the first place. Given the number of AP's I see named "NETGEAR" and "Linksys", I am not surprised there are people who do not know how to change it. Maybe the router vendors should start added _nomap themselves to the default name.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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Phatty
join:2000-05-10
Valley Park, MO | Who Cares? I still don't see what the big deal is. They are not stealing anything, they are scanning the air and picking up the SSIDs that are easily available that anyone can already see. Keeping track of Wifi locations benefits anyone who pulls up a service that uses that information to help pin point a persons location faster than GPS can normally lock onto a signal.
Making it opt in only would make the service worthless, as most people don't know how, or won't put the effort into applying the map flag. This provides a solution for those few users who are offended or surprised by the fact that the wireless signal goes through walls into public space. | |
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| | I wonder... How many "linksys_nomap" and "netgear_nomap" SSIDs we will see...
Seems like that would be kinda silly though | |
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 IowaCowboyWant to go back to IowaPremium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
·Comcast
 ·Verizon Broadban..
| My SSID is hidden and secured My SSID is hidden and secured. My neighbor has asked to use my internet but I refused as it is a direct violation of Comcast's terms of service so he uses a router called linksys.
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All of my CPE (including my EMTA) is customer owned. The only Comcast owned equipment in my house is the CableCards in the two TiVO boxes I own. | |
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| LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5
1 edit | Re: My SSID is hidden and secured That wouldn't prevent Google from still seeing your SSID. It would prevent them from logging on, but not seeing it.
There are even free tools for plain old dumb users that run on your laptop that can see hidden SSIDs.
Here are 2:
»www.metageek.net/products/inssider/
»www.xirrus.com/Products/Wi-Fi-Inspector.aspx
I am sure Google's roaming vans can just as easily see hidden SSIDs.
I use the tool to see what channels and signal strengths neighbors are using to choose the least crowded WiFi channel.
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| | sorry but... why is Google's solution for me to change MY SSID? | |
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| openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | Re: sorry but... That's not Google's solution, it's yours  Google wants to see your SSID and MAC Address | |
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amungusPremium
join:2004-11-26
America Reviews:
·KCH Cable
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| um, no I agree w/Kapil's 1st post...
Second, I guess there's no way to retroactively tell them, "no, take my AP off of your map..."
Does this mean they're going to "start over" sometime soon, or that they update such info with any regularity (people do this thing called moving sometimes...)???
Third - no. Just no. Why should I have to change my network? I just set it up.
Besides, I really don't feel like hooking up a mouse/keyboard AGAIN to my HTPC, just to change wireless settings.
Oh, and having your SSID include that "_nomap" bit is about the lamest thing I've ever heard. NOBODY, repeat, NOBODY would actually *want* this to be a part of their SSID...
They really should give up on this, it's pointless anyway. If somebody wants to scan for wifi, they can do it themselves - they aren't going to consult google first on this I'm afraid.
...besides, it's slightly different than -publicly- accessible TV broadcast, for example... | |
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| koolman2Premium
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK | Re: um, no The map info is updated every time someone uses the service. The device requesting location sends the SSID and BSSID to the server, which then looks at its database, returns the approximate location, updates the database with new access points, and removes ones that no longer exist. I presume they will delete any at this point that contain _nomap at the end.
I still don't see what the fuss is... a MAC address and an SSID are hardly personally identifiable. | |
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| | openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | Re: um, no said by koolman2:I still don't see what the fuss is... a MAC address and an SSID are hardly personally identifiable. It's something to complain about. I agree, this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. | |
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| | | | How can I query the database? | |
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| | _map How about Google only maps APs that have _map in the name? Or Google is saying we can take their furniture unless they put stickers on them saying don't? | |
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 FBGuyPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL
·Comcast
·T-Mobile US
| what is the problem? can someone please tell me how this is a problem? Use logic.
I don't see the problem when you broadcast a signal that can be picked up from the street. If you don't want it broadcast that far, don't broadcast it that far. Learn how to use your equipment correctly before you plug it in. | |
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| | Stupid people.... It amazes the things that are done in the name of privacy. Go look at a database like WiGLE and you will see the same type location info Google is getting about your SSID.
The lat/lon is the location of the war driver and NOT the access point. I just looked at my work address and I found that there are 4 APs that are pinpointed on our building. Not one of them are with in 300 to 400 feet of our property. Three of the 4 have not been seen here in years.
The 2 SSIDs we use are on the map but they are all pinpointed on I-75 and not any where near our building.
If Google is sending data through your open AP which in turn is getting your IP the data is going to be even less accurate because they will get your ISP's address and not yours. | |
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Pv8man
join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN | It's not the SSID that bothers me. It's not the SSID that bothers me, its the collection of the MAC address of the router that makes me weary.
/Tin foil hat on/
Wonder how long it will be before big brother wants a copy of that data from Google.
/Tin foil hat off/
SSID's are easily changeable. MAC addresses, not so easily spoofed. I wonder how easily it would be to try to effectively eliminate methods of anonymity if they can identify your traffic by having the MAC of your router. | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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| | Wow So google is going to rape you future with data that is free to anyone that rides by your house with a laptop seems very plausible.  | |
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| | Google Tinfoil I love these threads.
Do you have a driver's license? Your privacy is exposed.
Do you have a Social Security Card? Your privacy is exposed.
Do you have a major credit card? Your privacy is exposed.
Do you have a store credit card? Your privacy is exposed.
Do you pay a utility bill? Your privacy is exposed.
Do you own a "titled" vehicle? Your privacy is exposed.
And some of you are worried about non-identifiable information that anyone within range can view? Oooookay. | |
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