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Google Loon: Broadband By Hot Air Balloon
Company Conducted First Trial Last Weekend in New Zealand

Earlier this month news emerged that Google was planning on experimenting with broadband by hot air balloon or blimp (affectionately called "blimpband" around these parts). Now Google has come out with more details about the project and given it a name: Google Loon. The new project plans to use hot-air balloons to provide broadband connectivity to regions that lack it, and over the weekend Google conducted the project's inaugural trial in Christchurch, New Zealand.

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Google Loon will use hot air balloons 49 feet wide stationed 12 miles above the planet, well above the range of commercial aircraft. From there, ground base stations set some sixty miles apart communicate with solar-powered radio transmitters affixed to the balloons (which also communicate with each other). Google claims they should have some control over steering the balloons using wind as they ride the 40th parallel.

"Project Loon uses software algorithms to determine where its balloons need to go, then moves each one into a layer of wind blowing in the right direction," states the Google Loon project website. "By moving with the wind, the balloons can be arranged to form one large communications network."

Google makes that sound easier than it is. Broadband by blimp is something we've been talking about for the better part of the decade -- yet it has never taken off due to both cost and complexity. Google's blog claims they've solved some of this by relying more heavily on wind and solar power for the balloons. The test over the weekend in Christchurch involved some thirty balloons, though Google says they're looking for additional partners for additional tests.

According to Google, each balloon should be able to offer broadband connectivity to an area around 780 square miles -- ideal for both disaster areas and locations where other options simply aren't available. The Loon website has a number of videos explaining the project in more detail for those interested.
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workablob
join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX

workablob

Member

Loon?

How cute.

I don't like it.

That is all.

Blob

Edit: I guess it beats 'Ball'
EdmundGerber
join:2010-01-04

EdmundGerber

Member

Re: Loon?

said by workablob:

How cute.

I don't like it.

That is all.

Blob

Edit: I guess it beats 'Ball'

Is it the name alone you don't care for, or do you have globophobia?

workablob
join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX

workablob

Member

Re: Loon?

said by EdmundGerber:

said by workablob:

How cute.

I don't like it.

That is all.

Blob

Edit: I guess it beats 'Ball'

Is it the name alone you don't care for, or do you have globophobia?

LOL.

No, Just the name.

It's like:
Some egghead at Google:
What should we call it

Other egghead:
Well we are using Balloon so how about Balloon?

First egghead:
How about loon? Get it. BalLOON. It evokes the image of a loon flying around providing Internet access.
It's Cute. People will like it. Well, most people.

Blob

RockCake
Premium Member
join:2005-07-12
Woodbridge, VA

RockCake to workablob

Premium Member

to workablob
I've got it:
Google...balloon ---> Gloon!

workablob
join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX

workablob

Member

Re: Loon?

said by RockCake:

I've got it:
Google...balloon ---> Gloon!

Balloogle anyone?

Blob

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt

Premium Member

Re: Loon?

there is Boogle not to be confused with boggle (word game) or boggles the mind.

Loon makes me think loonie Canadian slang for the Canadian dollar, not to be confused with luntic, us slang for Canadians.

workablob
join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX

workablob

Member

Re: Loon?

said by tshirt:

there is Boogle not to be confused with boggle (word game) or boggles the mind.

Loon makes me think loonie Canadian slang for the Canadian dollar, not to be confused with luntic, us slang for Canadians.

That's it!

Call it LoonToonie!

Eh?

Yep.

Blob
SunnyD
join:2009-03-20
Madison, AL

SunnyD

Member

So low pressure systems are the place to be?

Inherently, a low pressure system is a "vortex" of sorts. So therefore you'll get the best bandwidth in a low pressure system? Hurricaine Google!
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: So low pressure systems are the place to be?

Powered by Hurricane Electric, of course

camper
just visiting this planet
Premium Member
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT

1 edit

camper

Premium Member

Radio astronomy interference concerns

»www.theregister.co.uk/20 ··· ge2.html

[edit: URL error fixed]

workablob
join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX

workablob

Member

Re: Radio astronomy interference concerns

I get a 404 Not Found.


thedragonmas
Premium Member
join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
Netgear R6300 v2
ARRIS SB6180

thedragonmas

Premium Member

Re: Radio astronomy interference concerns

said by workablob:

I get a 404 Not Found.


»www.theregister.co.uk/20 ··· ge2.html

because for what ever reason the URL bbcode in the op got translated as part of the url..

workablob
join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX

workablob

Member

Re: Radio astronomy interference concerns

said by thedragonmas:

said by workablob:

I get a 404 Not Found.


»www.theregister.co.uk/20 ··· ge2.html

because for what ever reason the URL bbcode in the op got translated as part of the url..

Thank You

Blob

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt to camper

Premium Member

to camper
Not to mention the pollution factor as the attrition rate out of the millions of required for full global coverage must be substantial.
If it doesn't catch a plane on the way up or down, or just go walkabout as satellites tend to do from time to time.

StillLearn
Premium Member
join:2002-03-21
Streamwood, IL

StillLearn

Premium Member

No way its a hot air balloon

The project is almost certainly using helium balloons , but it could be hydrogen. Safety issues would be minimal with hydrogen for this, but the public would be frightened. A lighter-than air hydrogen would be much safer than a hot air balloon, in addition to being much more practical.

workablob
join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX

workablob

Member

Re: No way its a hot air balloon

said by StillLearn:

The project is almost certainly using helium balloons , but it could be hydrogen. Safety issues would be minimal with hydrogen for this, but the public would be frightened.

Yes, because Hydrogen implodes rather than explodes.

But, yes the tin foilers will freak out.

Blob

John Galt6
Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp

John Galt6

Premium Member

Re: No way its a hot air balloon

I hear the balloons are going to be used for chemtrails and HAARP redirection.
Liberty
Premium Member
join:2005-06-12
Arizona

Liberty to workablob

Premium Member

to workablob
said by workablob:

Yes, because Hydrogen implodes rather than explodes.

Blob

Oh, like clean coal
I get it

workablob
join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX

workablob

Member

Re: No way its a hot air balloon

said by Liberty:

said by workablob:

Yes, because Hydrogen implodes rather than explodes.

Blob

Oh, like clean coal
I get it

LOL

Good one.

Blob
Wyngs
join:2010-02-20
Coos Bay, OR

Wyngs to StillLearn

Member

to StillLearn
Safer? They mentioned solar power, so I assume the balloon stores electricity from photo cells and uses a heating coil at night to keep the air temp up. It wouldn't take a lot of heat in a sealed enclosure. If the balloons are painted a flat black, then sunlight alone should keep them aloft during daylight hours as the air heats inside.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Only 3G speeds

The test, at least, is only using 3G speeds. Depending on what Google means by 3G, that is kind of slow and no better than satellite broadband.

»www.google.com/loon/how/

workablob
join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX

workablob

Member

Re: Only 3G speeds

said by FFH5:

The test, at least, is only using 3G speeds. Depending on what Google means by 3G, that is kind of slow and no better than satellite broadband.

»www.google.com/loon/how/

Maybe the 3G is to test the waters.

Then when they do better they will give away the 3G for free and charge for the faster tier.

Blob
Automate
join:2001-06-26
Atlanta, GA

Automate to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

no better than satellite broadband

Lots of difference in latency between 24 miles (round trip) and 46,000 miles.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

Re: Only 3G speeds

Latency won't matter if your speeds are too slow to be useful.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Only 3G speeds

1 Mbps is useful for basic stuff. I'll take a low-latency 1 Mbps connection over capped, latency-pegged satellite any day of the week, and I have parents on Verizon DSL rather than exede to prove it.
elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA

elray to silbaco

Member

to silbaco
said by silbaco:

Latency won't matter if your speeds are too slow to be useful.

Useful to whom?

What if you're talking about a population that has to walk five miles with a gourd balanced on their head to fetch fresh water, and survives on millet. They have no electricity - and pay a kiosk vendor to charge their shared (MultiLineAppearance) cellphone.

Even QNC or GPRS would be "useful" under these conditions.

Not everyone "needs" to stream Netflix or videoconference.

Jim Kirk
Premium Member
join:2005-12-09
49985

Jim Kirk to FFH5

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to FFH5
said by FFH5:

The test, at least, is only using 3G speeds. Depending on what Google means by 3G, that is kind of slow and no better than satellite broadband.

»www.google.com/loon/how/

When taking latency into account, you are incorrect. Doing some quick calculations, a 10Mb satellite connection will deliver roughly .09Mbps throughput. A 1Mb 3G connection using the distance Google specifies gives you roughly .35Mbps throughput.

dbirdman
MVM
join:2003-07-07
usa

1 recommendation

dbirdman

MVM

Re: Only 3G speeds

said by Jim Kirk:

said by FFH5:

The test, at least, is only using 3G speeds. Depending on what Google means by 3G, that is kind of slow and no better than satellite broadband.

»www.google.com/loon/how/

When taking latency into account, you are incorrect. Doing some quick calculations, a 10Mb satellite connection will deliver roughly .09Mbps throughput. A 1Mb 3G connection using the distance Google specifies gives you roughly .35Mbps throughput.

Why on earth (or not on earth) would you expect distance/latency to affect throughput? FWIW, it does not.
mlcarson
join:2001-09-20
Santa Maria, CA

mlcarson

Member

Re: Only 3G speeds

Latency sure as heck does affect throughput when using a protocol like TCP. This comes from experience using a point-to-point connection from Guam to the USA. I see the same affect on the Internet when routing is taking me across the country and back. I think the math is:
(TCP window size in bits)/(latency in seconds) = maximum bits per second

dbirdman
MVM
join:2003-07-07
usa

dbirdman

MVM

Re: Only 3G speeds

said by mlcarson:

Latency sure as heck does affect throughput when using a protocol like TCP. This comes from experience using a point-to-point connection from Guam to the USA. I see the same affect on the Internet when routing is taking me across the country and back. I think the math is:
(TCP window size in bits)/(latency in seconds) = maximum bits per second

For data that is large (for example a video, or large image), the negotiation typically sets a very large window. A typical formula: Bandwidth-in-bits-per-second * Round-trip-latency-in-seconds = TCP window size in bits / 8 = TCP window size in bytes.

Those of us using satellite are well aware that we can stream data down (via almost any protocol) at near full bandwidth allowed by the account during times when there is low congestion. Congestion definitely affects speeds, just as it does on any other system that has more users than available bandwidth, but at 3am you can usually get full speeds. Exede and Gen4 customers can routinely see in excess of 10Mbps, real speeds.

Latency only seriously affects protocols that are verbose. SMTP for example, where there a ton of pseudo-english exchanges between client and server for each message in the list.

Websites have latency issues because there are so many elements to request, with latency involved in every request (unless there is an aggregating proxy). Each element, though, even if it is a multi-MB image, comes down at near full speed with little effect from latency.
ArizonaSteve
join:2004-01-31
Apache Junction, AZ

ArizonaSteve

Member

Longevity?

Won't they all get shot down over places like Iran, N. Korea and China?
ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

ISurfTooMuch

Member

Re: Longevity?

Google might agree to switch them off when they move over those countries.

Of course, these things are going to be over 60,000 feet up. Would these countries have missile systems that could hit a target that far up? China could probably do it using an aircraft, but could the others?

wistlo
join:2003-01-04
New Orleans, LA

wistlo

Member

April 1?

This seems like an April Fools' project at first glance, but but don't listen to me; in 1998 I would have scoffed at the idea of indexing the entire Internet and returning search results in milliseconds.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

Air Balloon

780 square miles is a lot of area to cover with a single balloon. That won't leave much bandwidth per user.

Jim Kirk
Premium Member
join:2005-12-09
49985

Jim Kirk

Premium Member

Re: Air Balloon

You gotta start somewhere...
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx to silbaco

Member

to silbaco
When you compare it to the size of a spot beam on a satellite, the balloons win out. You're talking about a radius of ~16 miles...yes, that's a long ways, but you're looking at rural areas as the application for these, not urban ones. This works well for areas where 700MHz LTE is flakey due to coverage, rather than capacity, issues.

whateveranon
@comcast.net

whateveranon

Anon

why?

Is it just me, or why does every tech company think they will solve the world's problems by bringing Internet?

Remember the one laptop per child thing, it was a "durable" green laptop, I'm sure it fostered some good learning, but what the kids really ended up using it for was a flashlight ...cause they were in a "town" with no or unreliable electricity.

Couldn't Google just, you know, provide some good clean drinking water, or vaccines ...cause that's really more important than Internet.

This is a nice publicity stunt, but the whole system seems "high maintenance" at some point you have to ask yourself, shouldn't I just run a wire.

•••

Michail
Premium Member
join:2000-08-02
Boynton Beach, FL

Michail

Premium Member

Sci Fi

This reminds me of the steam punk science fiction movies that have the skies full of zeppelins.

milnoc
join:2001-03-05
Ottawa

milnoc

Member

Re: Sci Fi

Or a two part episode of Doctor Who that's set in an alternate Universe gradually being populated by Cybermen.

Michail
Premium Member
join:2000-08-02
Boynton Beach, FL

Michail

Premium Member

Re: Sci Fi

said by milnoc:

Or a two part episode of Doctor Who that's set in an alternate Universe gradually being populated by Cybermen.

Love that show.

That's actually the vision I had in mind. But it's kind of a reoccurring theme.

You could probably combine google glass and the ballons together as some sort of plot to convert humanity to some collective mind control.

michieru
Premium Member
join:2009-07-25
Denver, CO

michieru

Premium Member

Hmm

We laugh this off as a joke however when a natural disaster hits and you can deploy a floating "cell balloon" tower in the sky all the sudden it becomes a important matter.

It's an interesting idea and could serve a more important purpose than just providing internet access especially if they can make it self sustainable.

•••

GlennLouEarl
3 brothers, 1 gone
Premium Member
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA

GlennLouEarl

Premium Member

We're not in Kansas anymore...

or Missouri, or Texas...

Too much fiber can give you gas?
SanJoseNerd
Premium Member
join:2002-07-24
San Jose, CA

SanJoseNerd

Premium Member

Power budget

The Loon site says that the solar panels produce 100 watts in full sun. That means, on a winter day the average power over a 24-hour period is no more than 25 watts. Is that really enough power to provide internet service for 1200 square kilometers?
True
join:2013-08-08

True

Member

Re: Power budget

remember at 12 miles up cloud cover is no longer an issue it kinds stops around 10 miles up. main issue is hours of sunlight that varies from 14-10 hours a day for most of the civilized world depending on time of year. In the far north or south where you can get days/weeks/months of darkness or light this will not work