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Google Report: 68% of Government Data Requests Warrantless
The Electronic Communications Privacy Act Needs Reforming

According to Google's latest transparency report, more than two-thirds of the requests submitted to the company for private user information aren't backed by warrants. According to the study, various parts of the United States government made over 8,400 requests for nearly 15,000 accounts -- significantly more than any other government. The customer data collected ranges from names and IP's used to create accounts, to time stamps for when Gmail accounts were logged in and out of.

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As Techdirt notes, the Electronic Communications Privacy Act continues to be abused by a government that long ago stopped having to worry about oversight into its warrantless surveillance practices:
quote:
ECPA -- the Electronic Communications Privacy Act -- is an outdated law that was supposed to be about protecting user privacy, but was written nearly three decades ago and now does exactly the opposite. Beyond being complex in ridiculous and unnecessary ways, things that were true decades ago are no longer the case. For example, the idea that emails left for 180 days on a server no longer need a warrant because under ECPA they are considered "abandoned." Whereas in the real world, where all email lives on servers for quite some time, that idea makes no sense.
Efforts to reform the ECPA and update privacy protections magically keep falling by the wayside.
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seamore
Premium Member
join:2009-11-02

seamore

Premium Member

I've got nothing to hide

and that's all i have to say about that.
gruntlord6
join:2010-06-10
Barrie, ON

gruntlord6

Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

said by seamore:

and that's all i have to say about that.

Doesn't mean the goverment should need all your personal emails.
easonin
Rock Ridge, FL
join:2008-07-08

easonin

Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

Exactly. And, if you don't exercise your rights, you'll lose them. Difficult to do in this case, but just as important. We all need to stand up together against this, even if you do feel the way you do because sooner or later, they'll come after something you do want to protect and there will be no one left to stand with you. Or whatever Niemöller said!

Duramax08
To The Moon
Premium Member
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX

Duramax08

Premium Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

lol, so what are you hiding then? seriously, if you arent hiding anything like child porn, terrorist activities or company espionage, theres nothing to worry about. you sound like they are going to sell your info to a third party or something. they are only asking for these request probably for some type on investigation going on that could lead to criminal charges.

or maybe they want to know what kind of toilet paper you buy off of amazon? : P
easonin
Rock Ridge, FL
join:2008-07-08

easonin

Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

The thing to worry about is where does this end? Or rather, what will be next? If we let this happen, what else would YOU let them do and "not worry about"? That's the concern.
And besides, we all know there are safer ways to hide stuff from "them", no matter who they are!
NOVA_UAV_Guy
Premium Member
join:2012-12-14
Purcellville, VA

NOVA_UAV_Guy to Duramax08

Premium Member

to Duramax08
said by Duramax08:

lol, so what are you hiding then? seriously, if you arent hiding anything like child porn, terrorist activities or company espionage, theres nothing to worry about.

The concern here isn't whether or not one has anything to hide.

It's whether or not a government constrained by a social contract known as the Constitution and its various amendments continues to act within the confines of those supposed constraints. Unfortunately it does not, and has not for quite some time.
said by Fourth Amendment :

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The portion of the Fourth Amendment relevant to our discussion is in bold above. Note that there are no "except if it's more convenient to do otherwise" or "except if the current administration doesn't like it" exceptions spelled out anywhere.

If, as some will undoubtedly argue, "times change" or "nobody could have foreseen a need", then our Founding Fathers did build outline a method of updating the government's contract with its people: a Constitutional Convention. Rather than secretly doing things by dark of night under clouds of suspicion with barely legal (and somewhat illegal) methods, our government should at least attack our rights out in the open and tell us that it intends to take them away. I'd rather that the First, Second, Fourth, and Fifth Amendments die a heroic death out in the open than be shredded by a bunch of wimpy bureaucrats and die of a thousand paper cuts.

We have a government that's out of control, not operating within the scope of its legal authority, and some citizens find that acceptable. I guess that President Reagan was right when he said that freedom is always only one generation away from death. It's too bad that it has to be the current generation that wants to kill it in the names of "safety and security", "political correctness", "fairness", or whatever other nonsense they want to call it today.

firephoto
Truth and reality matters
Premium Member
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA

firephoto to Duramax08

Premium Member

to Duramax08
said by Duramax08:

lol, so what are you hiding then?

... or company espionage, theres nothing to worry about.

You included the primary target of allowable snooping by accident.

The greatest ideas that result in the biggest profits are most always taken from someone else, by various means.

Do you seriously think all these multi-billion dollar corporations who roll over on their back when it comes to data privacy are doing it in the name of patriotism? They allow it because it gives them a free get out of jail ticket when they can just say the data they may or may not of seen was also seen by the gov't so "anyone" could of seen it or given it away so they shouldn't be liable for all the money they may or may not have made from seeing it or using it.

But yea, what I had for dinner and where I bought a pack of gum is "nothing to hide" so who cares...

Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium Member
join:2000-08-05
united state

1 recommendation

Snakeoil to easonin

Premium Member

to easonin
We have more important things to worry about. Like getting firearms away from law abiding citizens. We can't keep them out of the hands of criminals, so we might as well take them away from the people that obey the laws.

Besides, I don't care if the government walks into my house and helps themselves to anything they want. I have nothing to hide, and I'm not afraid to share anything that i own.

*Please note the use of sarcasm.

As a law abiding citizen, I find it offensive when someone out there makes comments like "I have nothing to hide". As American citizens, we are supposed to have rights that prevent the government from spying on us.

That fact that our government has no problem in stepping on those rights, and that their are citizens that don't care if it does, is a damn shame.

seamore
Premium Member
join:2009-11-02

seamore to gruntlord6

Premium Member

to gruntlord6
said by gruntlord6:

said by seamore:

and that's all i have to say about that.

Doesn't mean the goverment should need all your personal emails.

Believe me, they wont find anything exciting.
People should worry about things that MATTER.
54761437 (banned)
join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC

54761437 (banned)

Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

said by seamore:

said by gruntlord6:

said by seamore:

and that's all i have to say about that.

Doesn't mean the goverment should need all your personal emails.

Believe me, they wont find anything exciting.
People should worry about things that MATTER.

So if you don't consider constant and overreaching government surveillance important, what *does* matter? Oh, right, in your world view, only corporations can do evil, and the government remains ever vigilant of your rights, always beneficent.

seamore
Premium Member
join:2009-11-02

seamore

Premium Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

said by 54761437:

So if you don't consider constant and overreaching government surveillance important, what *does* matter? Oh, right, in your world view, only corporations can do evil, and the government remains ever vigilant of your rights, always beneficent.

I'd rather have the gov. snoop on me than a corporation.
Corps are greedy organizations and will do anything (including breaking the law) to make a dime.

The governments only reason to snoop is for crime and NOT to make money.
seamore

seamore to gruntlord6

Premium Member

to gruntlord6
said by gruntlord6:

said by seamore:

and that's all i have to say about that.

Doesn't mean the goverment should need all your personal emails.

Im more bothered by my info being collected by a corporation and sold to the highest bidder.
praetoralpha
join:2005-08-06
Pittsburgh, PA

praetoralpha to seamore

Member

to seamore
said by seamore:

I've got nothing to hide

and that's all i have to say about that.

Then what's your Social Security Number?

and that's all i have to ask about that.

Duramax08
To The Moon
Premium Member
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX

Duramax08

Premium Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

you'll need a warrant for that.

/sarcasm
praetoralpha
join:2005-08-06
Pittsburgh, PA

praetoralpha

Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

said by Duramax08:

you'll need a warrant for that.

/sarcasm

Or invoke the T or P words. (terrorist, pedophile)

/sarcasm

seamore
Premium Member
join:2009-11-02

seamore to praetoralpha

Premium Member

to praetoralpha
said by praetoralpha:

said by seamore:

I've got nothing to hide

and that's all i have to say about that.

Then what's your Social Security Number?

and that's all i have to ask about that.

LOL, dont be stupid.
NOVA_UAV_Guy
Premium Member
join:2012-12-14
Purcellville, VA

NOVA_UAV_Guy

Premium Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

Well, weren't you the one that said you have nothing to hide? LOL

seamore
Premium Member
join:2009-11-02

seamore

Premium Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

said by NOVA_UAV_Guy:

Well, weren't you the one that said you have nothing to hide? LOL

I was talking about nothing to hide when it comes to breaking any law or engaging in any nefarious activity. Anyway, the government already has my SS number
jc10098
join:2002-04-10

1 recommendation

jc10098 to seamore

Member

to seamore
What baffles me is that the NRA and the Right are up in "ARMS" about gun laws, but mum on the Patriot Act, FISA, Warrantless Wiretaps, Facility being built in Bluffdale, Utah to data mine our lives, etc.

As a country, I think Americans are single tracked. While the tech savvy amongst us understand the intrusion, the general populous is too oblivious. They choose to neither question nor complain about the loss of freedoms. To exacerbate the mess is many huge corporations behind the collusion are also in charge of our Media. Cox, Time Warner, etc etc. Thus, very little press time is given.

Ultimately, we have the country united around guns but not united around the fundamental gutting of our constitutional rights.
easonin
Rock Ridge, FL
join:2008-07-08

easonin

Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

Very good points! I'd like you to check out »www.gunsandweed.com/ , parallels what your saying to a degree.

"Guns and Weed: The Road to Freedom shows, in no uncertain terms, why Freedom of Ingestion and the Right to Keep and Bear Arms are equally indisputable civil rights, and why the War on Drugs and the War on Guns are both entirely immoral."
NOVA_UAV_Guy
Premium Member
join:2012-12-14
Purcellville, VA

NOVA_UAV_Guy

Premium Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

I'll agree 100% about the guns, but only 50% about the drugs. Firearms ownership is a right specifically granted to us; consumption of specific substances is not.

That being said, I wouldn't have an issue with laws that treated marijuana on par with alcohol and other substances. Allow personal consumption up to a point (as this consumption doesn't hurt anyone but the consumer), and disallow certain activities (such as driving, operating heavy machinery, etc.) while under its influence to prevent others from being hurt.
easonin
Rock Ridge, FL
join:2008-07-08

easonin

Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

Correction, that right was not given to us, it was only listed as a human right. Just as we have a human right to do with our own bodies what we wish.
I really hope you're not saying that it is right for other people to tell you what you can and cannot do with your own body! Because I don't want to tell anyone what they can or can't do, as nobody should be able to tell me the same. So, yes, all drugs should be decriminalized, not just cannabis or alcohol or aspirin.
pawpaw
join:2004-05-05
Asheville, NC

pawpaw to NOVA_UAV_Guy

Member

to NOVA_UAV_Guy
said by NOVA_UAV_Guy:

Firearms ownership is a right specifically granted to us; consumption of specific substances is not.

Let me introduce you to the 9th and 10th Amendments, which are there for this exact reason. However, I agree with protecting others.

"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant."
John Stuart Mill
Expand your moderator at work

Camaro
Question everything
Premium Member
join:2008-04-05
Westfield, MA

Camaro to seamore

Premium Member

to seamore
Neither do I, my penis pump and my library of porn everyone needs to know, Also if the government wants to look at my wife's dildo collection sure come on in, and of course my hemorrhoid cream, forgot to mention that, oh and every personal info about your medical history they need to know because as you said nothing to hide. That was sarcasm people just needed to point that out.

Sorry I will fight tooth and nail to hold on to the few privacy's we have left.

seamore
Premium Member
join:2009-11-02

seamore

Premium Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

said by Camaro:

Sorry I will fight tooth and nail to hold on to the few privacy's we have left.

the thing is, the common person can not fight tooth and nail for privacy. This version of tooth and nail is bitching and moaning on the interwebz.

Im surprised that some of you allow the US government deliver your mail.

DataRiker
Premium Member
join:2002-05-19
00000

DataRiker

Premium Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

So please share all of your personal info right now, right here or you are obvious troll.

And before you give some objection please specify how Government workers are more trustworthy than random people on the Internet.

seamore
Premium Member
join:2009-11-02

seamore

Premium Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

said by DataRiker:

So please share all of your personal info right now, right here or you are obvious troll.

And before you give some objection please specify how Government workers are more trustworthy than random people on the Internet.

GTFO! Im not sharing personal info to people freely. That's not what this is about. How did this thread turn from the government "snooping" on people to citizens freely offering their private info to the public?

Fucking ridiculous.

I understand, you and many others dont like government when a "D" is in charge. Howver, it's all mums when the "R" is. The government will ALWAYS do shit that you dont like. At times, there's stuff they do that i dont like. However, bitching and moaning on the internet will not and never change how the gov. functions.

And im not trolling. I honestly dont care if the gov snoops me. Really, i dont. If the gov. wants to know that i sell watches online or that i run a girlie website, I DONT CARE. If they want to see if im engaging in "bitch and moan" threads like this one, I DONT CARE.
If they want to see if im purchasing drugs online that contain the legal, but regulated Pseudoephedrine or Ephedrine, I DONT CARE.

Honestly, why do you care so much that " I dont care"?

DataRiker
Premium Member
join:2002-05-19
00000

1 edit

DataRiker

Premium Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

said by seamore:

Im not sharing personal info to people freely.

I win.

Also, just an obvious correction on your point, it is not politicians we are concerned about snooping into our personal data, it is some random federal employee who may or may not be on the up and up.

seamore
Premium Member
join:2009-11-02

seamore

Premium Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

said by DataRiker:

said by seamore:

Im not sharing personal info to people freely.

I win.

Also, just an obvious correction on your point, it is not politicians we are concerned about snooping into our personal data, it is some random federal employee who may or may not be on the up and up.

You didnt win anything. This is about those being bothered by government snooping.

dont be an id

You have your opinion that you dont like the gov. snooping and i have my opinion about gov. snooping.
We obviously dont agree.

paranoia is abundant when the D is in the house.

•••••••

Camaro
Question everything
Premium Member
join:2008-04-05
Westfield, MA

Camaro to seamore

Premium Member

to seamore
said by seamore:


the thing is, the common person can not fight tooth and nail for privacy.

Oh yes I can sir, by not giving into the "I have nothing to hide" is a start for me. No I wouldn't be standing at my door with a shotgun if people in black vans come a knocking, but you damn sure my 1 vote will go to a politician who has at least a few of my privacy concerns in mind. I will never have that mentality of "come on in nothing to hide here". But we are still a free country so we each have our own opinion of the situation.

seamore
Premium Member
join:2009-11-02

seamore

Premium Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

said by Camaro:

said by seamore:


the thing is, the common person can not fight tooth and nail for privacy.

Oh yes I can sir, by not giving into the "I have nothing to hide" is a start for me. No I wouldn't be standing at my door with a shotgun if people in black vans come a knocking, but you damn sure my 1 vote will go to a politician who has at least a few of my privacy concerns in mind. I will never have that mentality of "come on in nothing to hide here". But we are still a free country so we each have our own opinion of the situation.

Dont be silly. Politicians dont care about what you want. They are only concerned about which lobby will line their pockets.
Just look at the Patriot Act. Im sure you're upset about that, too, right? Look at the number of Yeas compared to the nays The politicians dont care what you think.\
You really think if someone fires off an email/letter/call to their rep that the rep takes the time to shuffle through all of them? LOL

»educate-yourself.org/cn/ ··· te.shtml

I cant be bothered by this "snooping".

Camaro
Question everything
Premium Member
join:2008-04-05
Westfield, MA

Camaro

Premium Member

Re: I've got nothing to hide

Well I don't plan on going to live in a hole so I am stuck here. I am not flaming anyone, but having that attitude permeates into people thinking they can't do anything so the hell with it.

And the Patriot ACT is a whole other ball of wax, I am going to stay on point.

I think we should agree to disagree, you have your camp I have mine and as long as there are at least 2 that's fine by me.

freenetuser
@comcast.net

freenetuser

Anon

this info should be made public

all these requests should be made public records after a certain time.

if a judge issue a warrant that allows my data to be searched and than i am never charged in a crime i believe i have a right to know about that search. if there is no warrant than google should inform the account holder about the request for information.

exocet_cm
Writing
Premium Member
join:2003-03-23
Brooklyn, NY

exocet_cm

Premium Member

Accuracy?

From Google's site:
quote:
"68 percent of the requests Google received from government entities in the U.S. were through subpoenas. These are requests for user-identifying information, issued under the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (ECPA), and are the easiest to get because they typically dont involve judges." (emphasis mine)
I know here we have to have subpoenas signed by judges the same as warrants. I typically tell detectives that come to me for assistance to just get a search warrant since the verbiage and paperwork process is almost identical to the subpoena process since it has to be signed by a judge anyway.

I understand this varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but making a statement that "x number of data requests are warrantless" without further explaining the process, reads as if the government has unfettered access to our data. If Google really wants to be "transparent", they should break down the number of subpoenas signed by a judge and the number of subpoenas not signed by a judge but issued on "a judge's behalf" from a court.

••••
Relic (banned)
join:2003-09-29

Relic (banned)

Member

wondering about "request"

Because to me request doesn't sound like a demand.

It's more like holding out one's hand, and if Google were to slap the papers of data from those requests in the government's hand without an actual demand (i.e. warrant) to do so, obviously that means Google handed over information wilfully and set themselves up for litigation.

To me this is just a ploy to reinforce this image that Google cares extensively about privacy and/or rights.
yurimaster
join:2009-09-28
Alexandria, VA

yurimaster

Member

N/A for me

Haha, I got nothing to worry about here. I got my own domain and host my own mail server
Simple as that.