Google Starts Discussion About Speeding Things Up Improved protocols and better broadband penetration Google's no dummy when it comes to Internet architecture, given they own a lot of capacity and employ plenty of specialists -- including TCP/IP co-creator Vint Cerf. To engage the broader Internet on how to speed things up further, Google this week launched a new website that offers site tips and tools to developers, but also aims to encourage community discussion on how to improve protocols, content delivery, and the expansion of broadband services. "Networks have become much faster in the past 20 years, and by collaborating to update protocols such as HTML and TCP/IP we can create a better web experience for everyone," the company states in a blog post.
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 | | ya ok google blah blah blah
until you got your own network and you can sell it to me then all this is just big words | |
|  |  Smith6612Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:21
 ·Frontier Communi..
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: ya ok google Google already has their own global network. They just won't sell it to anyone since it's used for their servers only to link up with backbone providers and ISPs such as Level3.
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| |  baineschile2600 ways to livePremium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI | Google wants unlimtied bandwidth available; just so long they have the advertising rights along those lines. | |
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| | Improve the Browser First! There really isn't anything that wrong with the way the internet works at the moment, if you really want to "speed things up" you have to improve the browser and get people to update from IE6. | |
| |  wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: Improve the Browser First! said by dlewis23:There really isn't anything that wrong with the way the internet works at the moment, if you really want to "speed things up" you have to improve the browser and get people to update from IE6. Google does have their own browser (called Chrome), and they claim its much faster than IE. | |
| | |  MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Improve the Browser First! said by wifi4milez:said by dlewis23:There really isn't anything that wrong with the way the internet works at the moment, if you really want to "speed things up" you have to improve the browser and get people to update from IE6. Google does have their own browser (called Chrome), and they claim its much faster than IE. It is for certain things, but the barrier to speed right now is that Javascript can't take advantage of multiple CPU cores, which is a killer. So if you have an AJAX (the J is for Javascript) application running in a browser, it's limited to a single CPU core. AJAX heavy apps will frequently max out a single core of my Q9300 (2.5GHz) quad-core and cause everything else the app is trying to do to have to wait. So the network isn't the bottleneck quite yet.
The move to multiple, but lower clocked, CPU cores is a hinderance to AJAX performance as for ideal AJAX performance, you want as high a clock speed as possible. | |
| | | | | | Re: Improve the Browser First! You hit the nail on the head. With x64 + Dual Cores + a (logically) infinite capacity for processing power in the future, we're seeing programming falling behind the architecture. Javascript is definitely showing it's age. | |
| | | | | Core0000Premium
join:2008-05-04
Somerset, KY Reviews:
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| Re: Improve the Browser First! I believe there was a TED talk about how software wasn't quite keeping up with hardware.. or at least not utilizing the hardware more efficiently.. or maybe it was actually a Google video or something.
Now that I think about it, I do believe it was someone from Google talking about this situation..
I watched this in a video.. but I watch so much "stuff" I can't recall where I seen it. Information overload... | |
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| | | | | | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Improve the Browser First! said by djrobx:AJAX heavy apps will frequently max out a single core of my Q9300 (2.5GHz) quad-core and cause everything else the app is trying to do to have to wait. True, although at the moment I like that "feature". On my quad core PC, the last thing I want is a single browser window containing some poorly written, buggy advertising code hogging up the whole machine. There is that unintentional side benefit, but I don't think that should hold back Javascript from being able to take advantage of multiple cores. There are other ways to fix buggy adverts.
You know, this is a case where I think someone should grab Javascript, standards be damned, fork it, make it multi-core aware and then submit the spec back to the standards body. As it stands right now, there is SPECULATION that Javascript 3 will be able to take advantage of multi-cores, but Javascript 2 hasn't even been widly adopted yet. So who knows how far out on the horizon an efficient, powerful multi-core Javascript version actually is. | |
| | | | | |  AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ | Re: Improve the Browser First! this is why chrome runs each tab as a thread
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| | | | | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Improve the Browser First! said by AVD:this is why chrome runs each tab as a thread Yes, but that still can't speed up an individual AJAX app. That only helps if you're running multiple AJAX applications. | |
| | | | | | | | AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ | Re: Improve the Browser First! said by Matt:said by AVD:this is why chrome runs each tab as a thread Yes, but that still can't speed up an individual AJAX app. That only helps if you're running multiple AJAX applications. agreed....
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| | | | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | said by djrobx:AJAX heavy apps will frequently max out a single core of my Q9300 (2.5GHz) quad-core and cause everything else the app is trying to do to have to wait. True, although at the moment I like that "feature". On my quad core PC, the last thing I want is a single browser window containing some poorly written, buggy advertising code hogging up the whole machine. I disable Javascript for this very reason (well, that and the security issue). If I come to a site that requires Javascript for some functionality, I enable it just for that. Its amazing how much faster my computer "works" implementing this minor tweak.
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| | | | | Flash & java are huge cpu hogs, they need to be refined & not used as widely, especially in ads. Load a page, have computer act like it came from 1992 from cpu lag.
- A
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LETS GO METS! | |
| | | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Improve the Browser First! said by FastiBook:Flash & java are huge cpu hogs, they need to be refined & not used as widely, especially in ads. Load a page, have computer act like it came from 1992 from cpu lag. - A It's not the computer itself that is brought to it's knees, but rather the browser since most older browsers are ALSO not multi-core aware. | |
| | | | | | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: Improve the Browser First! said by Matt:said by FastiBook:Flash & java are huge cpu hogs, they need to be refined & not used as widely, especially in ads. Load a page, have computer act like it came from 1992 from cpu lag. - A It's not the computer itself that is brought to it's knees, but rather the browser since most older browsers are ALSO not multi-core aware. That is partially true. What happens is that the browser ends up using all the available memory, and thus the whole computer slows down. Check your task manager next time your computer is crawling along, I can almost guarantee its because IE or FF is using up 99% of your available resources....
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| | | | | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Improve the Browser First! said by wifi4milez:said by Matt:said by FastiBook:Flash & java are huge cpu hogs, they need to be refined & not used as widely, especially in ads. Load a page, have computer act like it came from 1992 from cpu lag. - A It's not the computer itself that is brought to it's knees, but rather the browser since most older browsers are ALSO not multi-core aware. That is partially true. What happens is that the browser ends up using all the available memory, and thus the whole computer slows down. Check your task manager next time your computer is crawling along, I can almost guarantee its because IE or FF is using up 99% of your available resources.... That is an old memory leak that has been fixed since FF 2.x at least. It was definitely a problem in the past, but not anymore. Just open a ridiculous flash heavy MySpace profile and look at your resources. You'll see memory usage around 100-200MB and a single core maxed. You can still use your OS, but your browser will respond slowly.
We have a very heavy AJAX based application so I have to test this stuff all the time. The browser really is doing a ton more than it was designed to do. | |
| | | | | | | | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: Improve the Browser First! said by Matt:That is an old memory leak that has been fixed since FF 2.x at least. It was definitely a problem in the past, but not anymore. Just open a ridiculous flash heavy MySpace profile and look at your resources. You'll see memory usage around 100-200MB and a single core maxed. You can still use your OS, but your browser will respond slowly. We have a very heavy AJAX based application so I have to test this stuff all the time. The browser really is doing a ton more than it was designed to do. While the memory leak in FF was (supposedly) fixed, the problem is certainly not only with FF. I am running IE right now, and I am currently at over 400MB with just two windows open. While the most recent version of FF is much better than it used to be, I still easily run in the 300MB plus range even when doing mundane browsing (until I disabled flash/java that is). For people who have netbooks, or even 'regular' computers that are a few years old, using that much memory makes everything else on your computer hang. You cant switch applications (using alt/tab) without getting the dreaded 'white screen of death', you cant even view the desktop without everything freezing up. Heck, even going to task manager is troublesome once you use up a certain amount of memory, with the task manager box ghosting across the screen.
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| | | | | | | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Improve the Browser First! I experience none of those problems (with IE nor FF) and we have an AJAX app that holds all sorts of financial position information. The most we've see a browser use is 200MB or so with thousands of ticker symbols.
I happen to have a few AJAX and flash (Hulu) tabs open right now and FF is using a paltry 64MB of RAM. ::shrug:: | |
| | | | | | | | | | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: Improve the Browser First! said by Matt:I experience none of those problems (with IE nor FF) and we have an AJAX app that holds all sorts of financial position information. The most we've see a browser use is 200MB or so with thousands of ticker symbols. I happen to have a few AJAX and flash (Hulu) tabs open right now and FF is using a paltry 64MB of RAM. ::shrug:: Thats impressive (and perhaps a bit of luck on your end), perhaps I am just plagued with being a RAM hog on all my machines!
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"You're Welcome"
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Keeping the world safe since 1776
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Improve the Browser First! I use safari.
- A
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| | | | | | Re: Improve the Browser First! said by tschmidt:Improving delivery speed opens the door to new Internet applications that are not possible at slower speed. /tom But for the most part now servers are connected at 100 Mbps minimum. And when with people now having 10 Mbps + at home the speed is there. The browser can't render it fast enough to take full advantage of what the connection can give the browser.
Google maps is the perfect example the server can push it, the user can download it, but the browser can't render it fast enough to keep up with the connection. There getting better with Safari 4 and Chrome. But they still aren't fast enough. | |
| | | | AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ | Re: Improve the Browser First! said by dlewis23:But for the most part now servers are connected at 100 Mbps minimum. And when with people now having 10 Mbps + at home the speed is there. The browser can't render it fast enough to take full advantage of what the connection can give the browser. Never heard of compression, overhead and latency.
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| | | | | | Re: Improve the Browser First! Theirs also people using Windows ME STILL 
I even offer them a free fix to XP and Mozilla Firefox. I hate seeing people with poor versions of windows and internet explorer. | |
| | | | AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ | Re: Improve the Browser First! said by yolarry:Theirs also people using Windows ME STILL I even offer them a free fix to XP and Mozilla Firefox. I hate seeing people with poor versions of windows and internet explorer. WOW how do you afford that?
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AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ | while you are reinventing the internet to make it faster make it more secure too. thanks.
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|  MichailPremium
join:2000-08-02
Boynton Beach, FL
kudos:1 | silverlight I've felt the need myself a few time to multi-thread javascript. It can be frustrating for a developer.
I think Silverlight holds great promise as an alternative to javascript and flash. However, I'm sure that opinion will be met with much backlash since the technology comes from Microsoft. | |
| | CorydonCultivant son jardinPremium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO | Re: silverlight On the other hand, a lot of the pages on our internal website were created in MS Word (yes, obviously there are better tools, but the company isn't willing to spring for them for any but a small minority, not to mention the time factor involved in doing things the old fashioned way).
Just to see how bad the problem was, I decided to hand code one particular page (no images, just text and design elements). I knew my version would be smaller but was still shocked to see it go from 196 kB to 33 (over 80% cut out).
Multiply that out over the whole internal site serving all of our users and thats a heck of a lot of wasted bandwidth and wasted time waiting for docs to pull up.
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| | | Reviews:
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| Re: silverlight said by Corydon:On the other hand, a lot of the pages on our internal website were created in MS Word Really? I thought it was notepad? | |
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