 | | They have to eat and sleep Hotels and restaurants will benefit for a while. No matter what I'm sure trenches will need to be dug and aerial pulled so some of that stuff will be contracted out to local folks. Still a positive for community no matter how you look at it. | |
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1 edit | Re: They have to eat and sleep Yeah, whether they are local contractors or contractors brought in, technically they are still jobs in KCK having same eco impact. Network build outs are just temp jobs anyway.
The long term opportunity is what the network itself should bring in. People who will want to move there for it and businesses who may want either cheap access or perform tests in an R&D lab the size of a city. It's not clear yet but not-for-profit orgs might get free access - it's up to the KCK govt to decide who gets free access. A slew of those may consider setting up shop there.
This is more than just a pipe, it's Google's test lab. Another article says Google singed a 10 year contract with KCK. Of course they could sell the network at a later time to some operator. It doesn't look like they want to get in the ISP biz though. Will be surprising if they go into other cities (outside KC metro). This sounds more like R&D for Google than becoming an ISP. | |
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| |  batterupI Can Not Tell A Lie.Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: They have to eat and sleep said by xenophon:Yeah, whether they are local contractors or contractors brought in, technically they are still jobs in KCK having same eco impact. Network build outs are just temp jobs anyway.
Google doesn't know or care where these workers come from as they will be contractors of contractors.
These people will be in and out with no stake in the community. I wonder what kind of back ground check these guys will have to go through? They will be working in peoples' houses.
This is going to be more fun to watch unfold than I thought. | |
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| | Not from them but others.... I think they will see rapid increase in businesses moving there....so yes, they will see new jobs... | |
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| | | Re: Not from them but others.... So, no new jobs, just uprooted ones??
Is that a win? | |
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| | | I doubt it. Part of the sales pitch by EPB was that their fiber network would have high tech companies beating a path to Chattanooga. There have been a few but not this massive explosion of high tech jobs that they keep talking about. | |
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|  vaxvmsferroequine fanPremium
join:2005-03-01
Wustah, MA | said by dmelling:I think they will see rapid increase in businesses moving there
? | |
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Reviews:
 ·Optimum Online
 ·Verizon FiOS
| markets to be won now if other companies could do the same... pick a broadband black-hole and start-a-deployin! without inteference from qwest, comcast and at&t. the myth (created & purpetuated by cableco & telco alike) that FTTP is not a good return on investment neglects the historical fact that voice lines and power lines established multi-billion dollar industries.
the 21st century landline is FTTP... maybe one day there will be wider bandwidth in the wireless spectrum but at the moment it's capacity limited (maybe less than satellite, but the hard limits for now are not going anywhere soon). google wants a foot in the door, and they're able to do it on the cheap. don't think that they won't want to make deployments generate revenue in addition to the rights of way they won't have to share revenue with the telcos & cablecos for IP traffic. | |
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| | | Re: markets to be won Well Google is probably not doing this to show FTTP is profitable. They are likely doing this as an R&D expense, not with the intent of becoming a profitable ISP. | |
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| | | No one is arguing that FTTP isn't a profitable business, just that it is not profitable for a long time.
You do realize that the original build outs of phone and power lines were pretty much totally government subsidized, right? That is why the ROI was so great. So comparing that to the FTTP is not a level comparison. If telcos and cablecos could build FTTP with almost 100% government funding, you can bet it would be done. Since they would just sit back and profit. | |
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nonymousPremium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ | Maintaining network? Who is going to maintain the network once it is built? | |
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| | | Re: Maintaining network? Apparently Google will for at least 10 years. They signed a 10 year contract with KCK govt. It's probably their test lab network the size of a city to test nextgen Internet services, not a typical ISP deployment. When/if they are done using it as a test lab, they'll probably just sell it to an ISP. | |
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| nonymousPremium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ | So they will bring in their own people from out of town to fix anything that breaks? | |
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1 edit | Re: Maintaining network? Good point. Google did say they'll provide open access to other ISPs to provide services. Surewest already has FTTP rolled out in some KC metro cities. Perhaps they hookup with Google for long term maintenance. | |
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| |  AlcoholPremium
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI
kudos:3
·Comcast
| said by nonymous:So they will bring in their own people from out of town to fix anything that breaks?
They might not hire to build, but they will probably hire to maintain.
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I found the key to success but somebody changed the lock. | |
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AVonGaussPremium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL | Two New Hires Google, as usual, appears to be underestimating the effort required for this endeavor. | |
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 BHNtechXpertBHN StaffPremium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:32
 ·Clearwire Wireless
| As a condition of the build... Kansas should require that local labor and businesses be used for this build. It's not an unreasonable request and if Google gave a damn about the local people they would already be considering that.
This should be warning sign #1 for Kansas....
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"I can’t give you a surefire formula for success, but I can give you a formula for failure: try to please everybody all the time."
~ Herbert Bayard Swope | |
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| | | Re: As a condition of the build... There are a lot of odd things about this. Google says they'll start rolling out next year but haven't even selected equipment vendors yet... unless they're just not announcing it. | |
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| |  firephotoKDEPremium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA
·Frontier Communi..
| Re: As a condition of the build... said by xenophon:There are a lot of odd things about this. Google says they'll start rolling out next year but haven't even selected equipment vendors yet... unless they're just not announcing it.
Why would they. They build their own server hardware and don't even give nods to who makes the parts. They gave out thousands of notebooks that only had writing on the keyboard and under the battery. Their phones say Google on them. They're an internet company and all the shiny and stickers you need to see comes virtually on your own display. 
My guess is they buy off the shelf equipment that is the cheapest to meet their needs and ignore all the ass kissing by those with the not-so-needed equipment that want some press time.
As far as jobs go, what would large numbers of Google ISP people on the ground do? The fiber is going to be laid by a fiber contractor just like any other isp so they're in the best position to fix it when it physically breaks but it could be their few hires locally are there to do emergency splicing or inspect things.
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Say no to JAMS! | |
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1 edit | Re: As a condition of the build... On equipment selection, I meant the fiber Gb equipment they'll use, not servers. In the telcom industry, that's usually a contract that is announced. Google says they'll be rolling out by end of year - they'd need equipment vendors lined up by now if not already.
Yeah, you'd think Google would contract out the entire build and just pay them to maintain it. Surewest already has FTTP/FTTH in several KC area cites (up to 50Mbps up/down). Wouldn't be surprised if Google just hires them to handle the rollout/maintenance, using Google's selected vendor for Gb equipment and on Googles' open access terms.
Surewest then could perhaps upgrade the rest of KC metro presence (they are already in downtown KC, MO lofts/condos) based on the same Gb equipment Google uses. I doubt it could be done on Google's open access terms though, unless Surewest is willing to sublet to other ISPs. | |
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| | | | | | Re: As a condition of the build... Hmm... sweet. I just checked with Surewest and they just now have service to my condo building (Westport/Plaza in KCMO). If they build a relationship with Google net, might make the switch from TWC. | |
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| | | said by BHNtechXpert:Kansas should require that local labor and businesses be used for this build. It's not an unreasonable request and if Google gave a damn about the local people they would already be considering that.
This should be warning sign #1 for Kansas....
Google is bringing a state-of-the-art communications network exclusively to Kansas City, something that will greatly benefit all residents of that area, and you want the government to put in all kinds of stipulations for them to do it? Are you high?
I'm sure there's hundreds of cities out there that would be more grateful. | |
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| | BHNtechXpertBHN StaffPremium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:32 Reviews:
·Clearwire Wireless
| Re: As a condition of the build... said by 45612019:said by BHNtechXpert:Kansas should require that local labor and businesses be used for this build. It's not an unreasonable request and if Google gave a damn about the local people they would already be considering that.
This should be warning sign #1 for Kansas....
Google is bringing a state-of-the-art communications network exclusively to Kansas City, something that will greatly benefit all residents of that area, and you want the government to put in all kinds of stipulations for them to do it? Are you high? I'm sure there's hundreds of cities out there that would be more grateful. No...only a high person would let Google come in willy nilly and do as they please. Your trust and faith in Google is very misguided.
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"I can’t give you a surefire formula for success, but I can give you a formula for failure: try to please everybody all the time."
~ Herbert Bayard Swope | |
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| | | | | Re: As a condition of the build... Wish we could see the contract between Google and KCK. Wouldn't be surprising if Google uses this network to push the limits of privacy. I wonder if Google has something in contract that benefits Google when it comes to privacy.
You'd think any privacy terms would be clearly laid out when users sign up. | |
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| | | | BHNtechXpertBHN StaffPremium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:32 Reviews:
·Clearwire Wireless
| Re: As a condition of the build... said by xenophon:Wish we could see the contract between Google and KCK. Wouldn't be surprising if Google uses this network to push the limits of privacy. I wonder if Google has something in contract that benefits Google when it comes to privacy.
You'd think any privacy terms would be clearly laid out when users sign up.
You can be sure that NOTHING will be private on that network. That is the big problem with their pie in the sky plans. Problem is Joe Schmuck public has been conditioned to just accept invasions into their privacy these days. Most are just plain clueless and then you have those who just don't care...screw everyone else...just so long as they get what THEY want.
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"I can’t give you a surefire formula for success, but I can give you a formula for failure: try to please everybody all the time."
~ Herbert Bayard Swope | |
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| | | | | | | Re: As a condition of the build... I could see SSL Proxies or VPN popping up on fringes of Gnet to do all your activity through. Would have to have a helluva lot of performance capacity (network/powerful SSL/VPN appliances) for high throughput per user. Guess the cost/benefit is not there. Just a thought.
If I get on it, I'd consider pointing one browser (not Chrome) to an SSL proxy for personal typical browsing and use other browser if needing high performance. | |
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| | | | | | BHNtechXpertBHN StaffPremium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:32 Reviews:
·Clearwire Wireless
| Re: As a condition of the build... said by xenophon:I could see SSL Proxies or VPN popping up on fringes of Gnet to do all your activity through. Would have to have a helluva lot of performance capacity (network/powerful SSL/VPN appliances) for high throughput per user. Guess the cost/benefit is not there. Just a thought.
If I get on it, I'd consider pointing one browser (not Chrome) to an SSL proxy for personal typical browsing and other browser if needing high performance.
LOL you most definately do not want to be using Chrome if you value your privacy. Yea it's fast and pretty but when it comes to privacy I use other browsers.
You could go SSL but like you said there would need to be some seriously beefy equipment supporting you on the other side as speed would certainly be an issue.
Look... I know lots of people think fiber to their house is the thing to have BUT are you willing to sell your soul to the devil to get it? Google is as close to the devil as you want to come...sniff sniff...is that sulfer I smell?
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"I can’t give you a surefire formula for success, but I can give you a formula for failure: try to please everybody all the time."
~ Herbert Bayard Swope | |
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| | | | | | | | | Re: As a condition of the build... Well TWC, ATT are packet sniffing too. We're not safe from any ISP. I imagine Google will do more creative (from their perspective) things with the data they collect that will get scary. Would you rather have anonymous sniffing from Google (supposedly) or the user-specific sniffing the other ISPs do? | |
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| | | | | | | | BHNtechXpertBHN StaffPremium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:32 Reviews:
·Clearwire Wireless
| Re: As a condition of the build... said by xenophon:Well TWC, ATT are packet sniffing too. We're not safe from any ISP. I imagine Google will do more creative (from their perspective) things with the data they collect that will get scary. Would you rather have anonymous sniffing from Google (supposedly) or the user-specific sniffing the other ISPs do?
Actually TWC and MOST cable co's are not actively using deep packet inspection. Not sure where that rumor started but it's most certainly false (lol yes I do...Karl Bode....don't even get me started). Bottom line is yes there have been some "experiments" with deep packet inspection but no USA based MSO is currently engaging in the activity. When and IF they do your terms of use will change and you will be notified. There isn't a single MSO that would dare touch that crap right now...despite what Karl claims. Too hot for most to handle...
The difference here is that your local provider does not profit from every single byte coming from you... Google does. What data they don't use they sell off in some way, shape, kind. You can be sure that every single byte traversing their network will be used in some way and without a doubt for the purposes of making Google even more money.
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"I can’t give you a surefire formula for success, but I can give you a formula for failure: try to please everybody all the time."
~ Herbert Bayard Swope | |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: As a condition of the build... I'll let other debate that if they have sources to show. It would surprise me if you are correct.
Did this ever kick into gear with Charter?
»nepacrossroads.com/about4314.html
What about Juno and NetZero... ad-based ISPs. | |
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| | | | | | | | | BHNtechXpertBHN StaffPremium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:32 Reviews:
·Clearwire Wireless
| Re: As a condition of the build... said by xenophon:I'll let other debate that if they have sources to show. It would surprise me if you are correct.
Did this ever kick into gear with Charter?
»nepacrossroads.com/about4314.html
What about Juno and NetZero... ad-based ISPs.
I don't consider Juno or Netzero players in the game at all. You go in knowing what to expect with these guys and the mass migration off their platforms continues...they are dialup...not broadband.
Charter maintains that what they did was an error. It is true that almost all ISP's have the technology to do DPI but I'm not aware of any in the USA currently using it. You see what happened when Charter had their little mistake right? Imagine what the response would be like as an intentional act here. For now it's just not gonna happen. Could it or would it change in the future...possibly...but I'm not into telling the future...unless you count my prediction of Clearwire's implossion.
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"I can’t give you a surefire formula for success, but I can give you a formula for failure: try to please everybody all the time."
~ Herbert Bayard Swope | |
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| | | | | | said by xenophon:Wish we could see the contract between Google and KCK. Wouldn't be surprising if Google uses this network to push the limits of privacy. I wonder if Google has something in contract that benefits Google when it comes to privacy.
You'd think any privacy terms would be clearly laid out when users sign up.
I'd rather have Google's black boxes spying on me while enjoying uncapped 1 Gbps speeds than the NSA's spy boxes in AT&T's datacenters while I only get 24 Mbps ripoff capped to hell service. | |
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| | the future is bright..but not here I am convinced that the faster the fiber gets and the smarter the computers get the more jobs will be shipped out of the usa. If your job in the usa is computer based your job is in jeopardy. Note that China is spending a lot of time "grooming" africa. Why? cheaper labor. I cant wait for ATT/T mobile to open customer service in africa (spoke to an "old" ATT field tech on this just last week. he agreed)
Given our education downfall and the lack of drive and willingness to work hard (esp males under 30) we are in deep trouble in this country. but nt to worry. other countries will pick up the slack | |
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| | | Re: the future is bright..but not here said by VerizonCynic:I am convinced that the faster the fiber gets and the smarter the computers get the more jobs will be shipped out of the usa. If your job in the usa is computer based your job is in jeopardy. Note that China is spending a lot of time "grooming" africa. Why? cheaper labor. I cant wait for ATT/T mobile to open customer service in africa (spoke to an "old" ATT field tech on this just last week. he agreed)
Yes. Better infrastructure and technology is going to be a bad thing.
Dipshit. | |
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| | | | Re: the future is bright..but not here look at tech in last 20 yrs. now look at jobs in same time frame. does not take a rocket scientist. All those jobs lost in last 3 yrs are not coming back either. they will be replaced with fast food service jobs. I am not saying tech is bad. I am just saying it makes it easier to move jobs elsewhere. again prove me wrong | |
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elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·RoadRunner Cable
| Google Knows That "faster" broadband availability does absolutely nothing to grow the economy or create jobs.
If there is ANY effect, it will cause people to lose their jobs, as Telepresence-like capabilities allow for more off-shoring.
Why hire whiny union schoolteachers when you can import the best online for less? | |
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| batterupI Can Not Tell A Lie.Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Google Knows said by elray:That "faster" broadband availability does absolutely nothing to grow the economy or create jobs.
Really? FiOS did wonders for Newark NJ. Crap even the Nets are leaving. | |
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