dslreports logo
site
spacer

spacer
 
   
spc
story category
Google: There's No NSA Hardware On Our Network
We're Using Secure FTP to Transfer FISA Requests
by Karl Bode 09:10AM Wednesday Jun 12 2013
As we've been discussing, a lot of the carefully-worded denials crafted by the companies allegedly participating in the NSA's "PRISM" surveillance program focused on denying that the NSA had "direct access" to their servers. These denials obviously didn't preclude things like NSA hardware on network that split streams and stores data on NSA hardware, something AT&T whistleblower Mark Klein claimed was common practice (pdf). Journalists needed to ask specific questions about what NSA hardware companies are allowing on their networks, and it appears some thankfully have.

Google has expanded their set of carefully worded denials to include denying that the NSA has placed any hardware on their network. The company tells Wired they use good-old secure FTP to transfer information requested by the government:
quote:
"When required to comply with these requests, we deliver that information to the US government — generally through secure FTP transfers and in person," Google spokesman Chris Gaither told Wired. "The US government does not have the ability to pull that data directly from our servers or network."..."We refuse to participate in any program — for national security or other reasons — that requires us to provide governments with access to our systems or to install their equipment on our networks.
Granted it's not entirely clear this matters given the amount of NSA gear on the network further upstream. It's rather important to note that Google was asked to take things a good deal further by the government:
quote:
Asked if Google had had discussions with the Feds in the past about creating or installing a system for obtaining court-ordered data more easily, he replied, "We have been asked to do things in the past and we have declined."
So Google, who has actually been fighting for more transparency and against NSLs has denied government requests to install more significant monitoring hardware on its network, making you wonder how many of the supposedly involved PRISM companies (not to mention carriers) didn't have such qualms, especially in exchange for say, regulatory favors. Surely the other Internet companies exposed as PRISM participants will be willing to make the same statement?

view:
topics flat nest 

Rob
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast

"No, no, we don't want to spy on you.."

The problem with letting the government have direct access to your network is, how do you know they aren't spying on you? "No, no, it's not you we want to spy on, it's your customers", sure...
--
CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us

Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC

Wait a minute

Aren't these guys under court order not to discuss the government's court order from the secrete government court????
averagedude

join:2002-01-30
San Diego, CA
Reviews:
·Cox HSI

Re: Wait a minute

said by Corehhi:

Aren't these guys under court order not to discuss the government's court order from the secrete government court????

Exactly, how or when do you know anyone is telling the truth when they have been ordered to lie?

sootrue22

@qwest.net

Re: Wait a minute

Exactly -- they are not supposed to tell us the truth, so they don't have to and will never have to tell otherwise.

It's up to all of us to take these "corporate" responses and run them through our internal BS filter -- your gut will give you the answer, the government/corporations will try and sway you the other way.

Easy

ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

Re: Wait a minute

So if they are under orderd to not tell the truth, can we extrapolate that there really is hardware in their data centers?
garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
No, they just can't disclose specific targets. They can discuss the subject in general, like they are doing.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

I dont agree with this statement

"So Google, who has actually been fighting for more transparency and against NSLs has denied government requests to install more significant monitoring hardware on its network,"

Karl, the quotes you included do not support your editorial here. I never saw them DENY that the governments request it. I saw them say they have been asked to do other things and have declined. I also saw them say they refuse to participate in a program that would require it. Which could very well mean the government calls them every day and ask really nice and tries to throw in free puppies, yet they still decline and refuse to participate.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:42

Re: I dont agree with this statement

I think you're misreading my sentence. I'm saying Google has denied requests to install NSA gear. I'm not saying Google is denying that the government made these requests? Is the sentence really that confusing?

seaman
Premium
join:2000-12-08
Seattle, WA

Re: I dont agree with this statement

said by Karl Bode:

Is the sentence really that confusing?

Nope
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
Obviously I was misreading it and it was confusing me.

Thanks for being so kind.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:42

Re: I dont agree with this statement

No problem. I do want to be told when stuff doesn't read well, so thanks.

Dolgan
Premium
join:2005-10-01
Sun Prairie, WI
Reviews:
·Charter

1 recommendation

Google, meet Kettle

As if Google has anything to say that is meaningful considering how much of our data they already retain for "marketing purposes". The ISPs have no right to complain as they are just as guilty when it comes to data mining their customers/users. Nothing but hypocrites trying to cover their own malfeasance.
averagedude

join:2002-01-30
San Diego, CA

Re: Google, meet Kettle

Google can "market" your data and make all the money they want, but they can't do one thing the NSA can do, and that is put you in jail.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
The difference is consent. Using Google products means you consent to how they will make money off you. You have no choice with the NSA. You can't opt out like you can with Google.
TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

Re: Google, meet Kettle

Actually you can't totally opt-out with Google. Many sites; including BBR and alike use Google for stats and advertising. Which still means they can collect your data. They know how long you stay on here, what pages you click and much more.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
Reviews:
·Charter

Re: Google, meet Kettle

said by TBBroadband:

Actually you can't totally opt-out with Google. Many sites; including BBR and alike use Google for stats and advertising. Which still means they can collect your data. They know how long you stay on here, what pages you click and much more.

You opt out by using another search and email provider. Aggregate advertising stats are another animal.
TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

Re: Google, meet Kettle

either way you can not opt-out which is the point.
mrwiggles

join:2013-06-10
Sherman, TX
Google is a private entity only interested in helping you find local singles in your area (lol) and other useful products, not garner information that can be used to make you disappear completely off of the face of the earth forever.
phazah

join:2004-05-02
Findlay, OH

lol..

nope, there isnt any hardware attached to googles system...
the government helped build it... to its part of the system....
kaila

join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL

1 recommendation

Remember Qwest's former CEO Joseph Nacchio?

He refused NSA requests to get access inside then Qwest's network circa 2001. Coincidentally the government decided to cancel some huge contracts with Qwest shortly after.

Joe currently is in jail for insider trading, many believe is based on the prior knowledge the government gave him about the contract cancellations if he didn't play the game- »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nac ··· _Nacchio

EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada

Dear Google

I don't believe you.

P.S. Now that you've buckled to the Gov't's demands, how is being allowed to operate in China working out for you?
--
~ Project Hope ~

P Ness
You'Ve Forgotten 9-11 Already
Premium
join:2001-08-29
way way out
Reviews:
·Comcast

wow thats scary

they have been asked to install the hardware...

so how many companies have said yes?

guess that little black door room at ATT was FACT...the one that no one believed so long ago
--
NO U

CrazyFingers

join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO

Don't Blame Google


*

*Evil will be defined using binding arbitration in a jurisdiction of our choosing, using definitions determined by Google Law Services to be disclosed at our discretion. This definition is subject to change as necessary to meet corporate needs, profit projections, or just because we damn well say so. We're Google, what are you going to do about it, pipsqueak?
--
Burrow owl...burrow owl...
rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

No equpiment on their network...

I don't have any equipment on Google's network either but through the miracle of the Internet, my "off-site" equipment gets to request all kinds of services from Google.

I'm not claiming Google is facilitating the NSA but denying NSA hardware is on their "network" (whatever that means) means nothing.

Claiming secure transfer mechanisms are used equally means nothing. While it's nice to know that the NSA uses SSL to spy on us, that only means it's harder for someone else to spy the spy.
Maggs
Premium
join:2002-11-29
Woodside, NY
Reviews:
·RCN CABLE

Corporate espionage

Who's to say the NSA doesn't hand this data out to US companies as a favor. Never trust government, too much power concentrated in the hands of a few always corrupts people.

Just look at what General Motors did to Ralph Nader....

»www.casebriefs.com/blog/law/tort ··· rs-corp/
--
Walking Overnight in DC on June 1-2, come out and be awesome!
sparky007

join:2011-08-25
Avondale, AZ

Time to use off shore web searches

www.weblist.ru

Looks to be busy..