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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs: | VoIP providers too... They like to tack on fees just like the telco's did. So you get socked twice. | |
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woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA
 ·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter There is nothing wrong with capitalism, It's that there isn't a choice to choose something else in this instance ( and don't wait for the govment any time soon). For most products and services we have a choice, but when it comes to cable/phone service we don't really have a choice, it is a perceived choice, but not a real one, unless you go without cable and a phone. Cell service is not much of a choice either. Peace
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BlooMe | |
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hopeflicker
IheartPhotog
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
edit:
February 5th, @12:02PM
| said by TK Junk Mail  :Great - another left wing reporter with a hate on for capitalism. His book(Gotcha Capitalism) is marketed as some pro-consumer guide but he is just another reporter who is a socialist at heart. Of course, he is willing to plug HIS book and make a lot of money, making him the usual liberal hypocrite. More discussion on this news clip, Sullivan, and his book here from Jan 29: » To Comcast I'm just ARPU tell me it isn't so ;( take your blinders off!
There are negative aspects of capitalism, you know.
I wonder how many more times the words "move to china" or "communism" will appear in this thread. Bets anyone? 
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Man created God in his image : intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter The biggest Myth of all: That we have a "Free Market" economy.
We have a economy that likes to trumpet "Free Market" to keep regulations away so they can abuse at will, but there's nothing "Free" about it because a Free Market system ASSUMES that you have unlimited opportunity for competition as it's main check and balance.
And in many industries, this simply isn't the case.
The Free Market system is as much an unachievable Utopia as the so called Communist Market system. Both are totally impossible to achieve given human nature.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
| | | | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter said by KrK :The biggest Myth of all: That we have a "Free Market" economy. We have a economy that likes to trumpet "Free Market" to keep regulations away so they can abuse at will, but there's nothing "Free" about it because a Free Market system ASSUMES that you have unlimited opportunity for competition as it's main check and balance. And in many industries, this simply isn't the case. The Free Market system is as much an unachievable Utopia as the so called Communist Market system. Both are totally impossible to achieve given human nature. the three major forms of running things(capitolism, Socialism, Communism) are all impossible in their most pure forms. because they are run by humans. and lets face it we can be evil greedy creatures when wealth and or power is to had.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | | s13
join:2007-12-06
USA
| said by morbo :wow. you're really defending "unfees"? no one is arguing limiting the price charged by companies (is that your misguided 'socialist' slam?), just that the price advertised should be THE PRICE plus federal, state, and local taxes required by law. no hiding the true price of a product or service. Well as a very kind member astutely pointed out to me in a post similar to this one, you're a socialist if you don't support unfees. Stop promoting socialism, hippie!!  | |
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TK Junk Mail
Golf season has returned - hurrah
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter said by Titus Pullo :So ... reporters are socialists at heart, as are all people trying to make a living in a capitalist republic if what they're selling is contrary to waving the flag. And, of course, all these people are liberals AND hypocrites too. Thanks for clearing that up for me -- You're welcome.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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yock
The Internet Is For Porn
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
 ·1and1
| said by Titus Pullo :said by TK Junk Mail :Great - another left wing reporter with a hate on for capitalism. His book(Gotcha Capitalism) is marketed as some pro-consumer guide but he is just another reporter who is a socialist at heart. Of course, he is willing to plug HIS book and make a lot of money, making him the usual liberal hypocrite. So ... reporters are socialists at heart, as are all people trying to make a living in a capitalist republic if what they're selling is contrary to waving the flag. And, of course, all these people are liberals AND hypocrites too. Thanks for clearing that up for me -- I wish you people would stop making stupid remarks like this. Someone posed a rather difficult question to TK Junk Mail and now he gets to ignore it because you gave him an out. | |
| | | | | | clickie
join:2005-05-22
Monroe, MI
| Logical fallacy of ad hominem attack. The author may be *ALL* of the things you state, it doesn't change the truth of the message he conveys and that is these companies will quote you one price and charge you another disguising the difference as "fees" from a third party.
What part of dishonesty and disingenuous marketing doesn't register with you? There's a difference between capitalism and thievery, right? Or is Laissez-faire capitalism a cute euphemism for thievery? | |
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TK Junk Mail
Golf season has returned - hurrah
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter said by clickie :these companies will quote you one price and charge you another disguising the difference as "fees" from a third party. I have no trouble finding what the "Fees" are before signing up. While marketing in general oversimplifies things for the masses, if you want to find out the real cost, it isn't hard to do. "Caveat Emptor" is still a good maxim to follow when buying something.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Austin, TX
clubs:
 ·VoicePulse
| Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter If I were to call AT&T and ask how much the final bill would be at address x for this particular service, they could not tell me.
And before you claim it is because local taxes vary, try asking for the pre-tax, after "Fee" amount. They can't/won't tell you that either.
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Intel Quad Core QX6700 @3500Mhz/Asus P5N32-E SLI/4x 1024Mb Corsair/Seagate 750.10/PNY 7800GTs SLI/Silverstone 850W/Custom water cooler | |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Netcong, NJ
| said by TK Junk Mail :I have no trouble finding what the "Fees" are before signing up. While marketing in general oversimplifies things for the masses, if you want to find out the real cost, it isn't hard to do. You've never dealt with Verizon.
Point me to something on their website showing me what a POTS line with nothing beyond touch tone and local calling will cost, including all fees/"taxes".
This book is kind of old news, no idea why it popped up here today. Here's 36 minutes of examples: »www.npr.org/templates/story/stor···17898418 | |
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TK Junk Mail
Golf season has returned - hurrah
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter said by sporkme :said by TK Junk Mail :I have no trouble finding what the "Fees" are before signing up. While marketing in general oversimplifies things for the masses, if you want to find out the real cost, it isn't hard to do. You've never dealt with Verizon. I'm a Verizon customer - both landline and wireless.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Netcong, NJ
| Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter said by TK Junk Mail :said by sporkme :said by TK Junk Mail :I have no trouble finding what the "Fees" are before signing up. While marketing in general oversimplifies things for the masses, if you want to find out the real cost, it isn't hard to do. You've never dealt with Verizon. I'm a Verizon customer - both landline and wireless. Awesome, show me all the fees on their website please. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Golf season has returned - hurrah
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter said by sporkme :Awesome, show me all the fees on their website please. Fee information is available from many sources - not just their web site. I call the LOCAL office mgr and get what I need. And I call friends who have Verizon service and can give me info from bill. And I can search web sites like BBR and others to gather what info I need. If you want it, you can get it.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Netcong, NJ | Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter I'm not just going to trust the "internets" and my home lines do not have an "account manager". Thanks for confirming that this is indeed a scam and that VZ does not publish what the actual price is. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Golf season has returned - hurrah
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter said by sporkme :I'm not just going to trust the "internets" and my home lines do not have an "account manager". Thanks for confirming that this is indeed a scam and that VZ does not publish what the actual price is. I confirmed no such thing. I haven't looked thru their web site to find if fees are there, so I couldn't say whether they are there or not.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
| | | | | | | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter said by TK Junk Mail :I confirmed no such thing. I haven't looked thru (sic) their web site to find if fees are there, so I couldn't say whether they are there or not. Then why did you say this:
said by TK Junk Mail :Fee information is available from many sources - not just their web site. | |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Netcong, NJ
| Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter said by moonpuppy :said by TK Junk Mail :I confirmed no such thing. I haven't looked thru (sic) their web site to find if fees are there, so I couldn't say whether they are there or not. Then why did you say this: said by TK Junk Mail :Fee information is available from many sources - not just their web site. I still say TK is a retired VZ/Bell Atlantic guy. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Golf season has returned - hurrah
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter said by sporkme :I still say TK is a retired VZ/Bell Atlantic guy. Wrong. I'm a retired railroad exec.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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Rickez
Goinginsane
join:2000-09-02
Three Rivers, MA | Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter Wrong. I'm a retired railroad exec. = Thats even worse.... Amtrak? even worse!
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Got a one way ticket, going the wrong way.... | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| While I agree with you, strongly, on your take here - as I often do.. the one thing that I would like to see happen is simple..
Taxes are taxes - those that are paid to the government. Everything else is and should be the actual cost of the service or product.
I for one would like to see a truth in ... X act set up.
If there is a fee that is part of every customer's bill in order to provide the service, then it should be in fact part of the monthly price, and not broken out as a 'fee'..
IE: If there is a "global connection charge" at $2.00, and the base internet price is $29.99, then the real price of the internet service SHOULD be $31.99 because that $2.00 'fee' is an actual cost to deliver the service.
On some levels, I agree with the arguments about the fees. In my opinion, take the grocery store and the produce department (and assume there was tax on it).. if they were to say that a cucumber was $0.49 cents each, + tax + $0.30 cent refrigeration fee, the cost to keep it cold is in fact part of the cost of the product.
Basically, what I'm saying is that I have to agree on "fees", those that are not taxes. I agree that a tax needs to be broken out as it should.. but if it's a fee, ie: part of putting the product out, then it should be part of the price and not broken out.
If they were to break out costs, then I'd love to see them break out the actual line item costs.. CSR, outside tech, inside tech, power, insurance, etc. 
I just think that if it's not a tax, then it's part of the product. What say you? | |
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surfinusa
Premium
join:2001-02-08
| And people think this site is stupid and is a lie ???
»asteriskhunters.com/
*************************************************************************************************************************** UN-FEES **** ASTERISK **********************************
************************************************************************************************************************
It is the annoying commercial that has a point.
Wish cable sees the point also. | |
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factchecker
@cox.net
| Nice... You take on the weakest point in clickie 's argument instead of addressing his far stronger one, thereby totally re-framing the argument...
I haven't seen a dodge that good in awhile. | |
| | | | | s13
join:2007-12-06
USA
moderated:
February 6th, @08:39AM
| Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter Agreed. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | People do ask them what the final price is... They have a bad reputation for lying or "being in error..." | |
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factchecker
@cox.net
| Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter said by DaveNJ :Unfees arent right, there should be more honest, but with the conservatives modeling behavior who can blame them. The above, altered, statement is also true... You guys can point fingers at each other when one of the sides actually quits doing what it accuses the other side of doing. Until then, both sides are nothing but hypocrites. | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Patriot Media
 ·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
edit:
February 8th, @09:37AM
| Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter said by factchecker :said by DaveNJ :Unfees arent right, there should be more honest, but with the conservatives modeling behavior who can blame them. The above, altered, statement is also true... You guys can point fingers at each other when one of the sides actually quits doing what it accuses the other side of doing. Until then, both sides are nothing but hypocrites. I dont think you understood my statement, because if you did, then you could see , not reason to alter it. Adding your need to protect, "liberals" proves my point, that liberals are fascists. They dont accept any criticism. Because they are too weak.. | |
| |
factchecker
@cox.net
| said by TK Junk Mail :Great - another left wing reporter with a hate on for capitalism. Wow, that statement makes you sound like those African American people who screamed about Cosby talking about the problem of fatherless children...
Instead of actually discussing the content of a valid criticism, you reframe that criticism as something totally different, in this case you call the author a socialist, and totally avoid addressing the valid points presented...
Would you like to try again and actually discuss the issues the author brought up? Or are you so totally blinded by an irrational belief in capitalism that you view any criticism of a system that is light years from perfect as promoting socialism? | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| my issue with fees is these are the only services that can legally get away with this.
Blizzard charges me 15/mo for WoW(well really 14.95, but the point is there). i dont see a charge on my credit card with an extra 10-15 dollars in bullshit fees. now of course your communications stuff is taxed but honestly if they say 39.95 on TV then it should only be 39.95+tax. no other business can advertise one price then add their so called business operation fees afterwards.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Funny how anyone who stands up for Consumer rights against Corporate interests in pillaging becomes a "Socialist".
Of course, this is nothing new. Back in the day, anyone who stood up against anything a corporation did was labeled a communist, socialist, traitor, anti-American, etc yadda yadda yadda.
Amazing how little some things change.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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bokamba
Chengdu Rocks
Premium
join:2002-04-05
Falls Church, VA
·Verizon Online DSL
| Not "Gotcha Capitalism," just "dishonest" The book's title implies that there's something wrong with our capitalist economy that requires the government to punish all large companies for the sins of some. These hidden fees are either fraudulent, a breach of contract, or completely legal.
The underlying problem is that these telecom companies have been given monopolies by federal, state or local governments. The grocery store doesn't charge you a "supplier surcharge," because if they did, you would buy the same product from a competitor for a lower price. | |
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yuutomo
The Wonder Kitter
Premium
join:2001-08-27
Missoula, MT
·Bresnan Online
| taxation without representation... they need stricter laws put on them like "can not charge fee unless it is placed upon the isp by the city, state or federal". something to that affect, which would wipe out 100% of the fake fees. I always paid just the amount and the fees they are imposed on by the city, state and federal, and if they said I had to, I asked them to show me the statute that stated that it was a legal fee for them to assess me.
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"The World is but a drop in the sea of time and space, and I am the current that flows through it" -Yuu Tomo(21st)
Basset Rescue of Montana
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Trakker
Danger
Premium
join:2003-01-12
ß | Re: taxation without representation... Only Govt's can tax something, if it's a fee it's a fee. | |
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yuutomo
The Wonder Kitter
Premium
join:2001-08-27
Missoula, MT
·Bresnan Online
| Re: taxation without representation... yet they have to lie about what they are and claim they are what the goverment is making them charge us, when in fact a good portion of them are not even pertaining to any goverment required fees. I consider that to be a scam, and in most cases worst than any other scam on the internet, because noone is doing anything about it. | |
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Raptor
Not a Dumptruck
join:2001-10-21
London, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Bell Sympatico
| What a joke.... Not that this is news to anyone, but the FCC/CRTC/etc is a joke, a waste of a gov't body even. These kinds of things should have the hammer brought down upon them within 24 hours of the first customer getting a bogus fee. What world am I living in though....fantasy land!
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....where's my fiber? | |
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Skeedatl
To Provoke and Annoy
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | It's because gov't is bought and paid for Of course they're not going to curb the telco fraud. | |
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Nightshade
Beware the Blue Rabbit
Premium
join:2002-05-26
Salem, OR
edit:
February 5th, @12:15PM
| Re: Mostly Telcos That is true. Comcast is pretty good about this. Their advertisements are pretty explicit in their introductory prices. They even say flat out X for 12 months. That to me says that after 12 months I am going to be charged the regular price, whatever that may be.
I dunno why some telco companies are afraid of telling their customers about fees and stuff in their advertisements. The majority of telco customers pretty much know that they will be charged fees in one form or another. Anyone who has ever had a land line knows about fees so it's not exactly this new thing that is going on. But then again if I was a company charging my customers an unambiguous vague fee like verizon did then I would probably hide my dishonesty too for fear of losing customers. | |
| axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Cox HSI
| It's fair to require full disclosure We don't have to tolerate lying from businesses. It's not going to hurt the economy to require truth in advertising. Having full disclosure would make the market more competitive and nicer for the average consumer, without harming the businesses required to do it. The easier it is to have perfect competition, the better. | |
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bokamba
Chengdu Rocks
Premium
join:2002-04-05
Falls Church, VA
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: It's fair to require full disclosure If it were really so obvious and easy to prove that these companies are lying, i.e. committing fraud, why haven't there been a bunch of successful lawsuits against them? (Conspiracy theorists need not apply.)
I'm not saying I enjoy the obfuscation found on a phone bill; I'm just saying that maybe this isn't quite as cut-and-dry as it appears on the surface. | |
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Gotcha Capitalism: Sneaky Broadband Fees
Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter
