Groups Demand Transparency For Secret Piracy Trade Agreement 100 consumer groups demand insight into secret, global deal.... Remember the international trade proposal recently leaked to Wikileaks that aims to "criminalize the non-profit facilitation of unauthorized information exchange on the internet?" That proposal (The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement, or ACTA) already took aim at BitTorrent websites like the Pirate Bay, but also potentially whistleblowers, and even legit distribution systems like Tor. It's also believed that the global proposal, being hashed out in secret between governments and the entertainment industry, includes mandatory ISP piracy filters. According to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the EFF and at least one-hundred different groups have written a letter demanding that the details of the agreement be made transparent to the general public. "Because the text of the treaty and relevant discussion documents remain secret, the public has no way of assessing whether and to what extent these and related concerns are merited," say the public interest groups in their letter. The ACTA is on the fast-track to being approved by year's end, according to the groups. From the letter: The lack of transparency in negotiations of an agreement that will affect the fundamental rights of citizens of the world is fundamentally undemocratic. It is made worse by the public perception that lobbyists from the music, film, software, video games, luxury goods and pharmaceutical industries have had ready access to the ACTA text and pre-text discussion documents through long-standing communication channels. The entertainment industry has been working hard, encouraging governments to force ISPs to adopt "three strikes and your out" policies for network P2P users. Users who received three DMCA warnings from their ISP would face account termination.
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 | | Passing a law no-one knows about? How exactly is this going to work? Seems like the **AssAss's want to assume everyone is guilty by saying they are guilty? And exactly WHAT level of ISP does the filtering occur at? If I've got a private T-3 from a Tier-1 provider, will that be filtered? Or is it only the megacorps? What about the small mom and pop ISP, are they going to have to install expensive, useless piracy equipment too? And exactly how are they going to PROVE anything, if everyone starts to encrypt everything?
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| Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | Police state... I'd comment but I'm worried I'll be terminated retroactively.. | |
|  | | | Re: Police state... O this must be the change all the palliation's are talking about. This will obviously solve all our problems. Way to go
USA. | |
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 Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
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2 edits |  Most of these groups are concerned with generic drug issue
»www.essentialaction.org/access/u···gnon.rtf
And as far as the not-democratic charge - the ELECTED representatives of these countries will sign off on the treaty. So I guess democracy isn't being threatened either.
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| | amungusPremium
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| Re: Most of these groups are concerned with generic drug issue Those poor bastards (sarcasm), it's not like they aren't still making money hand over fist on their pills... I have little sympathy for this racket.
As for elected reps signing off, that doesn't change the fact that these "secret" laws affect democratic populations of people, or do you think of democracies as simply dictatorships with a happy face sticker on the flag?
Seems you also forget that elected representatives are also obligated to disclose WHAT they actually do...
They work for us, we don't work for them. | |
| | | Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
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kudos:4 | Re: Most of these groups are concerned with generic drug issue said by amungus:Seems you also forget that elected representatives are also obligated to disclose WHAT they actually do... They work for us, we don't work for them. And when the treaty is finalized and submitted for ratification, then you get to see what they will vote on. Why do you think you are entitled to drafts and works in progress?
I know why these groups want to see the drafts - they want to sabotage the whole process because they want piracy to continue. All part of their anti-corporate jihad.
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| | | |  hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
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kudos:1 | Re: Most of these groups are concerned with generic drug issue said by Romney2012:said by amungus:Seems you also forget that elected representatives are also obligated to disclose WHAT they actually do... They work for us, we don't work for them. . All part of their anti-corporate jihad. How sweet of you. Lumping pirates in with terrorists. | |
| | | |  cho0b
join:2006-09-26
united state | I've watched your comments for a long while... I can't tell if you're just looking past the bad and trying to squeeze out some good or what.
I wonder if George Bush would ever think about using one of his mighty signing statements to stop piracy. I mean, he's already used them to stop the Bill of Rights.
Why aren't we entitled to see his signing statements? Why did the president give himself the power to be a legislator?
What do you think about that? Aren't the terrorists winning if we let them rape our Constitution?
p.s. terrorists=pirates? Right? Riiiight. Mkay. | |
| | | | |  La LunaSurvived AshrafulPremium
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1 edit | Re: Most of these groups are concerned with generic drug issue said by cho0b:I've watched your comments for a long while... I can't tell if you're just looking past the bad and trying to squeeze out some good or what. I wonder if George Bush would ever think about using one of his mighty signing statements to stop piracy. I mean, he's already used them to stop the Bill of Rights. Why aren't we entitled to see his signing statements? Why did the president give himself the power to be a legislator? What do you think about that? Aren't the terrorists winning if we let them rape our Constitution? p.s. terrorists=pirates? Right? Riiiight. Mkay. Well that didn't take long....six posts until some clueless one blames George Bush, lmao!
Has it occurred to you that George Bush might not even be in office when this treaty, IF it ever happens, goes through? Might be your Golden Boy wielding that mighty pen. And if you think he won't, think again. His corruption runs deep.
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| | | | | | cho0b
join:2006-09-26
united state | Re: Most of these groups are concerned with generic drug issue I wasn't blaming George Bush. I was asking him specifically what he thought about Bush and his signing statements. It was basically unrelated to the discussion going on.
Thanks though, it means a lot to me to be called clueless.  | |
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| | | | | | said by cho0b:I've watched your comments for a long while... I can't tell if you're just looking past the bad and trying to squeeze out some good or what. You don't need to put too much thought into it. If it might be bad for corporate America, you'll see TK jump all over it. He's so predictable. | |
| | | | | |  kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | Re: Most of these groups are concerned with generic drug issue said by digitalfreak:said by cho0b:I've watched your comments for a long while... I can't tell if you're just looking past the bad and trying to squeeze out some good or what. You don't need to put too much thought into it. If it might be bad for corporate America, you'll see TK jump all over it. He's so predictable. Hehehe, exactly. He's a typical one-bit corporate shill, full of lies and hilariously obvious mispresentations.
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| | |  Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
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| said by Romney2012:Why do you think you are entitled to drafts and works in progress? Because they are MY legislators, working by the grace of MY dollar, writing legislation that affects ME.
That's why I AM ENTITLED.
Why might you suppose that Americans shouldn't be fully informed of business centric legislation, that further restrains citizens?
*chirp*
*chirp*
NV
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| | | | bjbrock
join:2002-10-28
Mcalester, OK | Because in out democracy the drafting is being done by my representative. I have a right to know what my rep is doing.
Perhaps you are not familiar with how a democracy is supposed to work. | |
| | | | | Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
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kudos:4 | Re: Most of these groups are concerned with generic drug issue said by bjbrock:Because in out democracy the drafting is being done by my representative. I have a right to know what my rep is doing. Perhaps you are not familiar with how a democracy is supposed to work. And perhaps you don't understand how treaties are negotiated. They are done away from the public eye or no treaty would ever be drafted due to pressures brought by populist groups from around the world.
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| | | | | |  funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
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1 edit | Re: Most of these groups are concerned with generic drug issue said by Romney2012:And perhaps you don't understand how treaties are negotiated. They are done away from the public eye or no treaty would ever be drafted due to pressures brought by populist groups from around the world. Look at our copyright laws now, and look at the sorry state of our patent system. These knuckleheads are the ones we're letting talk in secret?
One thing is clear -- our government and our populace are not on the same page WRT intellectual property. And the longer we keep pretending that we are, the longer we delay the solutions that would benefit artist, inventor, and consumer alike.
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| | | Yes, that's it. Let's let people DIE so the CEO can afford his 2nd mistress and his new ferrari for his house on the Vineyard. So WHAT if they copy the drug? It's not like they are selling it in the US. Of course, in the US, you get ripped off, so the average american (42K/year), can't even afford the medicine they need to stay alive. "let them eat cake" cried Dubyah, "if they can't afford to pay, then they should die"
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| | | EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | Re: Most of these groups are concerned with generic drug issue Drug companies aren't as profitable as you seem to think they are. If pirating the drug potentially saves the lives of say, 500 people overseas, but the reduction in the drug companies finances means that drugs in the pipeline are cancelled, potentially killing 1,000 people who could have been helped, what is the right course of action? (And all numbers are potentials, since that drug in the pipeline could have been a waste of money, or the pirated drug could be contaminated due to low quality standards and hurt more than it helps, etc. etc.) | |
| | | | | | Re: Most of these groups are concerned with generic drug issue said by EPS:Drug companies aren't as profitable as you seem to think they are. [...] Hahahahahahahaha hahahahahaha. And the moon is made of green cheese. George Bush is a scholar. And filtering/capping/throttling/banning users cures "piracy." Please do yourself a favor and wake up. | |
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1 edit | Re: Most of these groups are concerned with generic drug issue said by SilverSurfer1:said by EPS:Drug companies aren't as profitable as you seem to think they are. [...] Hahahahahahahaha hahahahahaha. And the moon is made of green cheese. George Bush is a scholar. And filtering/capping/throttling/banning users cures "piracy." Please do yourself a favor and wake up. He has a point, although I wouldn't go on and say they aren't profitable. The reason they companies are profitable is because they have a 10 year window to sell their new drug before anyone can make a generic. When you buy a name brand, you are paying for the research and money put into making that drug, not just the cost of the ingredients. If they allow any company to copy a new drug, then companies would have no incentive to research for new drugs and nothing new will ever come out to the market again.
Edit: I would like to add that I do agree new drugs should be cheaper, however letting anyone copy a new drug is NOT the answer. Maybe allow the company to re-cope its initial investment into the drug plus 5% or 10% on top of that. Once that has been reached or 10 years(which ever comes first), then open the drug to generics. | |
| | | | | st7860
join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA | said by SilverSurfer1:said by EPS:Drug companies aren't as profitable as you seem to think they are. [...] Hahahahahahahaha hahahahahaha. And the moon is made of green cheese. George Bush is a scholar. And filtering/capping/throttling/banning users cures "piracy." Please do yourself a favor and wake up. i hereby and solemnly declare +1 | |
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| | |  Toguro
join:2003-10-23
Ottawa, IL | This is from one of many sites.
Pfizer Annual Revenue: $48.4 billion ($12.9 billion is profit).
»nymag.com/news/features/2007/profit/32900/
maybe if they pirate there drugs they will stop making so many herpes commercials. | |
| | | | funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
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1 edit | said by EPS:Drug companies aren't as profitable as you seem to think they are. That's not a very helpful way to think about it.
Item by item, it's a pretty big gamble. R&D costs are high, litigation risks are high, and payoffs are high. Some companies are small and only have a few items in development -- they've never made a dime. Some tiny companies have hit the lottery jackpot. Some large companies spread their risk and profit more slowly on a percentage basis. And, frankly, there's nothing wrong with this part of the pharmaceutical industry.
said by EPS:If pirating the drug potentially saves the lives of say, 500 people overseas, but the reduction in the drug companies finances means that drugs in the pipeline are cancelled, potentially killing 1,000 people who could have been helped, what is the right course of action? If those 500 people weren't going to get the drug by paying for it, then how does allowing them to die help anyone at all? How does manufacturing it and allowing them to live hurt anyone at all?
Don't get me wrong -- there is a problem here. Taking that formula from the US (where costs and risks are high) to some legitimate critical needs of the 3rd world may have zero immediate effect for that drug's market success or failure. That said -- within a year, legitimate buyers will start going to to the free sources, instead.
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| | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | It's not the 10year initial period that's the problem.
It's when they change the name add another side-effect and apply for another 10 year patent. Of course they just taking their cue's from content owners who are up to what? The life of the creator plus 90 years? IF you can't make a profit after 10 years you don't deserve to. | |
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| funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
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kudos:5 | said by Romney2012:Most of these 100 groups mentioned could care less about ISP privacy. Their issue is about continuing to allow 3rd world countries to continue pirating patented drugs and making HIV & other drugs available without paying off 1st world drug companies for producing the drugs. Without looking, so what?
Negotiating in secret on matters that will affect all of us is bad on its face.
said by Romney2012:And as far as the not-democratic charge - the ELECTED representatives of these countries will sign off on the treaty. So I guess democracy isn't being threatened either. Could democracy stand if public debate isn't allowed? Our system is a system of checks and balances, and one of those big checks is the ability to scrutinize what the government is doing.
When wikileaks exposed ACTA, some of the proposals there seemed like distant reaches. But, lately, I'm beginning to see some convergence between ACTA and some of the proposals recently made by legislators and industry. Coincidence?
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| | kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | said by Romney2012:Most of these 100 groups mentioned could care less about ISP privacy. Their issue is about continuing to allow 3rd world countries to continue pirating patented drugs and making HIV & other drugs available without paying off 1st world drug companies for producing the drugs. And that's the way it should be - Big Pharma is using them for uncontrolled shady testing, paying very little money, let alone claiming 'patents' over things we have had long time available.
US patent system is a complete joke and it's more than idiotic to base any argument on it - but I'm sure it flies way over your head, Tjunk.
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Their issue is about continuing to allow 3rd world countries to continue pirating patented drugs and making HIV & other drugs available without paying off 1st world drug companies for producing the drugs.
TK trolls the news, then gets upset when people call him names. A lose/lose all around. Lets play nice, gents! | |
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| | | Another day, another bad treaty The American people are always screwed by these treaties and there is no reason to think this one will be any different. | |
| | | Umm is it just me or does ne1 remember IRC, and private ftp with ppl u trust, hmmmm | |
| | | | It still be there! It's just with a different front end.
Like an invite only P2P, or if it's just MP3; Edna's a cheap end run. With so many free servers that'll run on free *nix and cheap hardware, it's becoming the wave of the present. | |
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| Drug Co. 'Patented' drugs are re-formulated (minor changes) just as patent expires. Also, renamed to allow for fancy new commercials warning of oily discharge.
Pharma 'research' is often done at publicly funded institutions (colleges).
Travel to them thar 'socialistic' nations and study their drug costs.
I'd rather pay more for less, and get good t.v. ad's. | |
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1 edit | Flamers get free run of BBR front page
And what you call trolling is any post that doesn't agree with your or your posse's view of an issue. | |
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