Hacked Router Results in $600 Bandwidth Bill With Caps, There's Still Nobody Looking Out for the Consumer A user of the Canadian cable company Videotron posts to our forums claiming that his WEP-secured router was hacked, resulting in a third party using his bandwidth. Because Videotron (like most Canadian ISPs) imposes caps and charges overages, the user says the intrusion resulted in a rather steep broadband bill in upwards of $600. Videotron appears to be unwilling to budge on the issue, and since regulators haven't seen fit to confirm meter accuracy in North America, his only resource appears to be to try and take Videotron to small claims court: One of my roommates switched the router from WPA to WEP a few months ago. Sometime around mid July, the router's WEP key was cracked, the login/password changed, and immense torrenting was begun. We have the 70Mbit TGV package. Overage amounts to nearly $600. We have about as much proof of it being WEP hacked as you can get. The usage pattern is hugely abnormal, with discrete start/stop dates that any idiot would identify. Videotron refuses to compromise on the amount. The user acknowledges that WEP isn't the most secure standard in the world, but the router at least was password protected. Still, that's not likely enough to help him in a battle against a terms of service that's stacked against the consumer. ISPs with overages traditionally don't do a very good job of tracking usage. In this case the usage tracking was accurate, but the user is annoyed there was no warning system in place alerting him to abnormal usage patterns resulting in huge charges: Our case before the justice would be that allowing such an overage charge to blindly accumulate and not notifying us of very abnormal and excessive usage, even though it was within their power well before it reached $600, is harsh and unconscionable, and the overage should be reduced to something more reasonable (preferrably cost, given the circumstances). A bank would have called us about going over our credit limit on a stolen credit card long before it reached $600. The problem is compounded by the fact that regulators (in both the United States and Canada) fail to think that the resulting incorrect billing (which we've seen go into the thousands) is anything that needs worrying about. The consistent tales of woe bubbling up from our forums clearly indicates the opposite. Meanwhile all of the burden of proof and all of the responsibility of tracking usage falls on the shoulders of consumers, who have no regulatory help when things go sour.
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  AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1 | sucks sucks, but if all the routers are locked down, the ISP will get another customer | |
|  | | | Re: sucks Well, if the roommate, housemate, whatever did it, then he needs to pony up the $600 for the bill, since his negligence caused it. | |
| | | Reviews:
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: sucks said by Austinloop:Well, if the roommate, housemate, whatever did it, then he needs to pony up the $600 for the bill, since his negligence caused it.
What if a hacker exploits a vulnerability such as the (somewhat recently discovered) SES? Are all users supposed to keep up with security bulletins? WEP is easy to crack, but WPA (the TKIP flavor) is also a 15-min task with the right tools. | |
| | | | Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: sucks My original thought stands, if the roommate/housemate downgraded the security, then the roommate/housemate owns it. If the router is at the best security level provided by the router, then I would not assign blame to the roommate, just pay the bill and go on down the road, and maybe run some wire and dump the wireless. | |
| | | | | | | | | | |  BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Re: sucks said by michieru:Whether he was using WEP or WPA does not matter. The problem here is that the network was secured.
Using WEP with the password being PASSWORD or 12345678 is NOT being secured. Most people that use WEP don't bother changing the default password of the router. | |
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| | | | | | The type of encryption and whether or not it was even being used is a moot point.
You are not legally liable to have encryption set to X level that some moron like yourself thinks is "good enough". Every standard out there can be cracked. Multiple exploits in the OS can be used to gain access to someone's network resources and there is no law that requires users to subscribe to hacker or security bulletins to keep up with all of it. You claiming otherwise is shear stupidity.
The ISP has many tools available to them to see usage that is out of the norm and they have many tools available to them to stop this completely or warn the customers.
Was he notified of reaching his limit, when he exceeded it, when it got to double, triple or quadruple his bill? If not, then they are liable for the bill and should be paying the customer an inconvenience fee for having to deal with their stupidity. | |
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| | |  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | said by cowboyro:WPA (the TKIP flavor) is also a 15-min task with the right tools. And specific equipment and/or configurations. To date, I haven't seen proof that WPA-TKIP itself is broken, but rather specific implementations due to vulnerabilities such as here. | |
| | | | | | | Re: sucks For those of you think that WPA-TKIP encryption can not be cracked has their head up their ass. It is almost as simple as capturing the raw data that is being broadcast over the airwaves and use a dictionary attack on the raw data that was captured. There is more to it but if you want to know how to do it pick up a book and learn. I know it can be cracked because i have done it to my network and to some clients of mine who wanted to know where are the vulnerabilities on their network. Granted it can take a long time to crack it but it can be done (longest it took me to crack a pass code was 7 days and the shortest was 15 hours). | |
| | | | | | AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1 | Re: sucks so change the password every 14 hours, and everything is OK.
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--Standard disclaimers apply.-- | |
| | | | | | | Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: sucks said by AVD:so change the password every 14 hours, and everything is OK.
And subscribe to most security lists, also learn to write a router O/S and patch all the newly-discovered flaws before the vendor does... | |
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| | | | | cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | said by stomas08:For those of you think that WPA-TKIP encryption can not be cracked has their head up their ass. It is almost as simple as capturing the raw data that is being broadcast over the airwaves and use a dictionary attack on the raw data that was captured. There is more to it but if you want to know how to do it pick up a book and learn. I know it can be cracked because i have done it to my network and to some clients of mine who wanted to know where are the vulnerabilities on their network. Granted it can take a long time to crack it but it can be done (longest it took me to crack a pass code was 7 days and the shortest was 15 hours). ALL encryption can be cracked brute force. A dictionary attack is just brute force with a restricted subset of all possible values. If you’re using a short password, a common word/prhase, or a limited character set, then you deserve what you get. | |
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| | Kamus
join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX | Go ask your mom and grand mother which security method is the safest.
Pretty sure this is the dumbest statement I've read today. But don't worry, it's still early. | |
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| | So Much Fail In This Story/Reporting quote:
The user acknowledges that WPA isn't the most secure standard in the world...
WPA can be fine, if it's handled right. That does you no good if you fail to secure your hardware, allowing somebody to get into it and change it to WEP, which is thoroughly worthless.
quote:
...regulators (in both the United States and Canada) fail to think that the resulting incorrect billing ...
There was no "incorrect billing." The user used the bandwidth for which he was charged. It's not the provider's fault he and/or his roommate(s) are careless idiots.
Besides: What's to stop him or his roommates from changing the wireless router from WPA to WEP, "cracking" it themselves, going to town with BT, then claiming "It wasn't us! It was Hacker X!"
It's about time we brought a little personal responsibility back into society.
Jim | |
| |  LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 | Re: So Much Fail In This Story/Reporting said by jseymour:
Besides: What's to stop him or his roommates from changing the wireless router from WPA to WEP, "cracking" it themselves, going to town with BT, then claiming "It wasn't us! It was Hacker X!"
It's about time we brought a little personal responsibility back into society.
Jim
And the above is the much more likely scenario of what REALLY happened.
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| | | Kamus
join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX | Re: So Much Fail In This Story/Reporting said by Linklist:said by jseymour:
Besides: What's to stop him or his roommates from changing the wireless router from WPA to WEP, "cracking" it themselves, going to town with BT, then claiming "It wasn't us! It was Hacker X!"
It's about time we brought a little personal responsibility back into society.
Jim
And the above is the much more likely scenario of what REALLY happened. You know this, how?
It's better to keep your opinion to yourself when you have no idea of what you are saying. | |
| | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | Regardless of what happened, big business once again proves it cannot be trusted to do the right thing.
This isn't the squeaky few adding business costs. If you polled 1,000 consumers, 100% would want to be notified about unusual activity leading to a significantly higher charges. Although failure to notify does not invalidate the charges, business only has itself to blame for some regulations.
Based on your user name and post signature, I will assume you are conservative and that you don't like regulation. I don't like silly regulations either but some are necessary because it's in our nature to be selfish a-holes. Without a good set of rules, invariably we all eventually prove that we won't do what's decent/right. Even with a good set of rules, we'll do our best to circumvent them. In the absence of competition, I'd say we're all capable of being downright ruthless. Hence, we need rules. | |
| | | |  RRedlineRated RPremium
join:2002-05-15
Williamsport, PA | Re: So Much Fail In This Story/Reporting said by rradina:Regardless of what happened, big business once again proves it cannot be trusted to do the right thing. Isn't it amazing how quickly some people will blame the consumer? It is simply UNREASONABLE to have such unusually high usage suddenly appear on an account, allow it to continue until charges pile up amounting to several times what the normal monthly charge would be, then expect the consumer to pay for it.
I am all for personal accountability, but people defending the service provider in this case aren't conservatives. They are misanthropes.
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One nation, under Zod! | |
| | | | | | | Re: So Much Fail In This Story/Reporting Lets me honest, how many people beside me had to look this word up?  | |
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| | | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | Perhaps they forget the ISP is also part of mankind and it deserves the same level of trust granted the consumer. | |
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|  elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO | so if the guy that lives next door to me hooks up a power cable to my house and say hides to so i dont cant tell just looking and runs up my power bill i should have to pay it? right...
its the same thing
yes the roommate was dumb for changing it to WEP
but the even still the ISP should of called once it went over the "free" limit be for it got that high
then there is the issue that unlike power and water and gas and well any thing you sell that thats metered or weighed
no one is making sure the meters are accurate
if they want to bill like a utility they should get treated like one at that point including a 3d party to inspect meters | |
| | |  El QuintronResident Mouth BreatherPremium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:2
 ·TekSavvy DSL
 ·WIND Mobile
 ·voip.ms
| Re: So Much Fail In This Story/Reporting said by elios:if they want to bill like a utility they should get treated like one at that point including a 3d party to inspect meters
Exactly, these companies get all the privileges of a utility but none of the responsibility.
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| | |  NickDPremium
join:2000-11-17
Princeton Junction, NJ | Bandwidth is not finite like water or gas. In fact, bandwidth use at 3 am costs almost nothing to the provider. | |
| | | | | | Re: So Much Fail In This Story/Reporting said by NickD:Bandwidth is not finite like water or gas. In fact, bandwidth use at 3 am costs almost nothing to the provider.
Music, movies and software aren't "finite," either, right? Therefore using them without paying isn't really theft?
Jim | |
| | | | |  FBGuyPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: So Much Fail In This Story/Reporting what does music, movies and software have to do with anything? | |
| | | | |  XiodenPremium
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY
kudos:1 | said by jseymour:said by NickD:Bandwidth is not finite like water or gas. In fact, bandwidth use at 3 am costs almost nothing to the provider.
Music, movies and software aren't "finite," either, right? Therefore using them without paying isn't really theft? Jim It's not theft, so not really sure what your point is. | |
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| | | elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO | then we dont need caps in the frist place
see the problem with this? | |
| | | | | | | Re: So Much Fail In This Story/Reporting I would have to agree, caps are not needed. Never have been and never will be. | |
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| | | | | Electricity is also a lot less expensive at 3 AM. | |
| | | | | | Electricity is also a lot less expensive at 3 AM. | |
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| | | | First of all, let me say that I despise caps. Also, I question the accuracy of the meters the ISP's are using.
However, neither are really at issue here. The issue is who's going to pay for these overages. Somebody has to pay for them. In your scenario, if it was found that the neighbor had been stealing your electric service, then they'd be charged with theft, and the utility and/or you would likely sue them for the cost of the power they stole. In this case, however, who do you sue? Who do you charge? If these guys had been smart, they'd have gotten the police or the ISP involved from the moment they learned of the freeloader (likely when the bill came) and done a little detective work to get some identifying information about the connecting computer. Odds are, the freeloader was nearby, considering how much bandwidth was used. That would have made tracking down the offender a bit easier. But I'm guessing they didn't do that.
But, as to who pays for the bandwidth, I'm afraid that the customer is going to get stuck with this one. It isn't entirely fair, I know, but it would be less fair for the ISP to eat the charges, considering the subscriber's roommate's negligence in changing the router to WEP. If the roommate did that, then he should probably reimburse the subscriber for the bill, but that's a matter to be settled between the two of them. | |
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See 20 replies to this post | |
| | | | said by elios:so if the guy that lives next door to me hooks up a power cable to my house and say hides to so i dont cant tell just looking and runs up my power bill i should have to pay it? right... Assuming that's what really happened, I imagine you could take him to court to recover.
said by elios:its the same thing Indeed: Your property is your responsibility.
Who's to say you didn't tell your neighbour, who was down & out and you wanted to help, "Hey, just hook up here, I'll pretend I didn't know about it, and you can get free electricity?"
Jim | |
| | |  MoracCat god
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
 ·Comcast
| said by elios:then there is the issue that unlike power and water and gas and well any thing you sell that thats metered or weighed
no one is making sure the meters are accurate
if they want to bill like a utility they should get treated like one at that point including a 3d party to inspect meters
There were two stories in my local paper last month of two different elderly people who suddenly received water bills of about $2000 each, which was about 100 times more than what these people normally paid. The water company insisted the bill was correct until these people contacted the local paper, then suddenly there were "billing error(s)".
I myself had such an error in the past, when I moved into a new home and the water meter reader did an estimated reading and the following month did an actual reading. They severely over-estimated the estimated reading such that when the actual reading was taken it was lower than the estimated reading. As such I was on the hook for using approximately 100,000 gallons of water in a month. Fortunately when I called in and complained they realized this was wrong and fixed it.
So just because a utility is regulated doesn't mean meter errors don't occur.
Here's another few examples:
$9000 water bill
$1.3 million electric bill
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
| | | tkdslr
join:2004-04-24
Pompano Beach, FL Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Speakeasy
| said by elios:so if the guy that lives next door to me hooks up a power cable to my house and say hides to so i dont cant tell just looking and runs up my power bill i should have to pay it? right...
Yes, you're responsible for the neighbors illegal activities using services for your house.
You pay the bill.. document how and when the illegal activity was accomplished, call the police, have them arrest the neighbor, if restitution is not awarded in criminal court, then you sue the crap out of the neighbor.. | |
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| | | said by jseymour:change it to WEP, which is thoroughly worthless. I wouldn't call it worthless. Easily hacked yes, but someone doesn't "accidentally" connect to a WEP secured access point. It's kinda like a privacy lock; it won't stop someone who has a paperclip but will let them know they're not supposed to be there.
/M | |
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See 8 replies to this post | |
|  KilroyPremium,MVM
join:2002-11-21
Ann Arbor, MI | said by jseymour:That does you no good if you fail to secure your hardware, allowing somebody to get into it and change it to WEP, which is thoroughly worthless. You have to use the lowest compatible encryption available to the devices that access the network. Some wireless devices will not connect to anything more secure than WEP. My wife's laptop was connected with WEP until I bought a USB wireless dongle as it would not support anything stronger. Granted it isn't the best, but WEP is better than nothing, though not by much.
Once we start getting more caps with overage fees you're going to be seeing more and more of this. I agree that they should have been notified once they were $100 over, that is the ISP's fault. I also agree they shouldn't have to pay more than the ISP's cost to provide them with the additional data used. Of course the ISP will fight that tooth and nail because they grossly over chagre.
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| | | |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | said by jseymour:It's about time we brought a little personal responsibility back into society.
Jim
.... I'm not sure blaming the victim equates to personal responsibility.
I'm all for more responsibility and accountability. Let's start with Politicians and Corporations. If they don't practice due diligence to prevent fraud and theft, then I guess THEY get to eat it, eh?
Or does it only apply to the working man and the consumer? (As is usually the case now.)
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | It could have been quite a lot worst If we look back at the stories from Bell subscribers 600 dollars is almost like a free ride. The person should consider themselves very lucky the bill was that low. | |
| | | Hacked Router Results in $600 Bandwidth Bill The problem is this can happen, because of the lapses in the technology (WEP is weak), and the Owner did not practice good security protocols. Allowing someone to have access to the router to change the security from WPA to WEP.
I don't see the need to demonize people for their mistakes, but the owner should accept responsibility for the changing of the security and the lack of proper security protocols. In other words the roommate or the owner need to pony up the $600.00 dollars.
Now as to the hacking explanation, the fact that it occurred due to the switching of the security from WPA to WEP, well this was no fault of the vendor, rather the owner admits that the switching occurred as a result of the roommate. This takes the ISP out of the picture, and puts the fault on the roommate. I know this is an apples to oranges comparison, but if I lend my car to someone, and they disable the airbags, I and another person get into the car and an accident occurs and the other person is killed, who is at fault, the car manufacture? No, the person I let use my car and myself are the at fault parties. It's my car, so I have to share some responsibility, but the person who disabled the airbags they too share responsibility.
I hope these guys just pay the money they owe and go on with life. | |
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See 7 replies to this post | |
 RobIn Deo speramus.Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3 | I GOT IT! I have the best idea - one that will bring in a TON of money for the Internet carriers..
Ready?
Here goes:
Overage Insurance. Yes, that's right. For a low low cost of $9.99/mo., you can be protected if someone hacks your Internet and uses all your allowed data.
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| | | | Re: I GOT IT! Stop giving them ideas. | |
| | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | If this was tongue and cheek, ignore this post. If you are serious, I don't see it as a win for the ISP. They would have to create a department that validate claims. If not, customers would corrupt themselves. | |
| | | RobIn Deo speramus.Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3 | Re: I GOT IT! said by rradina:If this was tongue and cheek, ignore this post. If you are serious, I don't see it as a win for the ISP. They would have to create a department that validate claims. If not, customers would corrupt themselves.
Take nothing I post serious, except when I make a serious post.
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|  Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | said by Rob:Overage Insurance. Yes, that's right. For a low low cost of $9.99/mo., you can be protected if someone hacks your Internet and uses all your allowed data. I swear I've seen this on here.. somewhere.. | |
| | XiodenPremium
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY
kudos:1 | Oh and then they can charge an Overage Insurance Fee too! Yay for another $1.99/month on top of that! | |
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| | Fishy Story WPA is more secure than WEP. Why change it?
More to the story here that is being told.
Maybe the roommate run up the bill! | |
| | | | Re: Fishy Story said by compuguybna:WPA is more secure than WEP. Why change it?
More to the story here that is being told.
Maybe the roommate run up the bill!
There is some very old hardware out there, such as old wireless printers, that only works with WEP. It's possible that he wanted to connect it to the network and found that it wouldn't work with any modern encryption scheme. | |
| | | | | Re: Fishy Story said by ISurfTooMuch:There is some very old hardware out there, such as old wireless printers, that only works with WEP. It's possible that he wanted to connect it to the network and found that it wouldn't work with any modern encryption scheme.
If a piece of hardware forces me to use WEP it won't be on my network. If it is a printer, it has either USB, Ethernet or both in addition to WiFi. I cannot think of any piece of equipment that doesn't have a second way to connect.
If one cannot run an Ethernet cable, use a wireless base station. Apple makes the Airport Express which has two audio outputs, digital and analog, Ethernet, and a USB printer only port. | |
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| | | said by compuguybna:WPA is more secure than WEP. Why change it? Some older devices I had were incompatible with WPA, so for a brief period of time I left my router on WEP. Then I later decided the utility of connecting that device to the internet was not worth the lack of security of running WEP. | |
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| | This is what happens when corporations run the world These criminal corporations that have bribed corrupt government are the problem, also that revolving door between corporations and government needs to be put to an end. | |
| | Reviews:
·ProLog
·Verizon Online DSL
·voip.ms
| Just Wait If the usage was due to torrents which were pirated material, this $600 bill will pale in comparison to the RIAA, MPAA, **AA, Suit-O-Matic extortion, lawsuits claiming damages.
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The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. | |
| axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC | Contracts with high overage fees are risky I doubt the contract with Videotron provides exceptions for "hacked" usage. The contract is putting a financial risk on the subscribers that wasn't obvious when they signed it.
The user got a very bad deal, but that doesn't invalidate the contract. The best thing they can do is publicize what a risky contract this is, and let others know what a bad deal it is. If enough people heed the message, Videotron will lose customers until they change the contract to be consumer-friendly. | |
| | tkdslr
join:2004-04-24
Pompano Beach, FL Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Speakeasy
| Room mate should pay the bill.. Actions have consequences...
The room mate made the changes.. he or she should own up to the consequences..
Note: What ever device was incompatible with WPA, they could have bought a new one for that price.
Also.. the owner should file a police report.. Hacking and theft of service is a crime.. | |
| | | Caps should be outlawed ! Dear CRTC/FCC,
Ask any major ISP (Third Party ISP's don't count) to provide a SINGLE invoice from any supplier/partner that shows that THEY pay ANY monthly, yearly fees for data volume transfered.
I don't care what volume they transfered, what rate they pay, who they pay it to but, I want to see a line item on an invoice that says something like ...
Dear ISP,
Jan 1/2012 - Jan 31/2012 - XXXX TB transfered @ $X.XX/TB = $ X,XXX.XX
Please remit.
Sincerely,
ISP Supplier Company "X"
Network gear suppliers base their prices on speed.
So should ISPs ... all of them.
Period.
Caps were "sold" on the bullsh1t premise of a way to reduce network congestion (that they would not have if they did not over-sell their infrastructure in the first place). All they do is reduce congestion in the last week of the month as users approach their bogus CAPS!
I blame the "regulatory bodies" and politicians that have been either bamboozled or bought by the ISP's.
By extension, I blame an apathetic electorate for not voting out those that are either bamboozled or bought by the ISP's.
I am so sick of this sh1t !
PHUCK!! | |
| | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | Re: Caps should be outlawed ! I don't dispute that overselling the infrastructure is required as providing everyone with their rated maximum speed all the time at the same time is not feasible. At least not feasible given today's technology and prices. Even in well-managed last-mile systems, somewhere within the ISP's infrastructure the collective bandwidth is combined and when multiplied by millions of customers, it's crazy huge.
However, you are correct in that CAPs do not solve network congestion because they do nothing to prevent proverbial bandwidth rush hours. Even throttling the hogs doesn't work because this site has referenced articles that claim there is no correlation between hogs and peak congestion periods. To put another way, removing tractor-trailers from heavily congested commuter corridors during peak periods won't stop traffic jams.
I believe CAPs are a way to protect other business models. Even wireless CAPs are unnecessary. I believe they are a way to prevent folks from cutting the data cord.
For those that believe they generate necessary revenue that lower monthly rates for everyone else must forget that ISPs have always claimed that CAPs don't affect most users.
Cable and wireless ever-increasing speeds also are counter-intuitive if the reduction of network congestion is the true goal of CAPs. That's like increasing the speed limit on heavily congested commuter corridors. | |
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| | | | | Re: Human Stupidity said by JCohen:If they have a modem/router combo unit, which they likely do, Videotron secured it with WPA/WPA2 and it was than switched to WEP, therefore human stupidity is not Videotron's fault. [...]
I have helped out setting up the network properly after the Verizon FiOS technician left. In all three cases, the WiFi was on, and set to WEP. The password in all three cases was stupid, but in two cases the Verizon Technician said it SHOULD be changed. In two of those cases we turned off the wireless in the Verizon router. I the third I wasn't allowed to turn off that base station over wife issues.
In that case, I had to switch to WPA and it wasn't obvious as how one could do it. I called Verizon and was told it could not be done. It MUST be WEP. I knew that could not be true, so I spend some time searching the web for an answer. That got me close enough to find the answer and switch to WPA. | |
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 skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | If someone steals your car... ...you still have to make the payments. | |
| | | | Re: If someone steals your car... If THE BANKS car was stolen and I no longer have use of it, good luck in getting another payment.
The bank can contact the INSURANCE company for their settlement. | |
| | | skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | Re: If someone steals your car... Not if you modified the car which made it easy to steal. | |
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Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| bottom line.. the ISP probably had an obligation to NOTIFY the account owner/owners of usage above and beyone their caps..
if this did not happen then they might have a case to sue the ISP for breaking their TOS.. AFAIK, all isps's that issue consumption caps AND overages have to notify customers that they have consumed more than the cap OR ARE ABOUT to.. the fact that nothing is said about this, makes me suspicous that that ISP may not have done their job.
btw, if you have a significant number of hackers in your area, with time on their hands to crack wep/wpa, I would suggest wired ethernet... Seriously, how many square feet are we talking about for an APARTMENT?!? | |
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4 edits | ISP setup The user may not really be the problem. The ISP may have told them that they were protected by encryption and a password. The ISP may be partially to blame.
When my new ISP installed the modem/router I connected a Linux laptop to the modem/router before doing anything else. The first thing I did was check the encryption, SSID, and password. They set the encryption to WEP and the password was written on the side of the modem/router (just upper-case characters and numbers). I changed to WPA2-AES, chose my own SSID, strong password, and long pass-phrase.
Not everyone knows about computer wireless security. They trust the ISP to take care of that for them. | |
| Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
| key issue The real crime here is that this ISP has no hard limit for overage on many of their higher tiers.
Since bell is such a terrible ISP, Videotron takes it upon itself to not compete on price or features, and charge customers unlimited overage at huge profits | |
| | | ISP should wave the fees Ok I have read some of your posts and I looks like most of you don't know how technology works. First my knowledge of computer and technology. I have been working, repairing, and playing with computers for over 20 years. My first personal computer was an Amiga 3000, but played with the Apple II-E and the commodore 64 prior to owning my first computer. I am CCNP certified, and I Have worked with a couple of ISP's as a support engineer and as a network administrator. Now that you have a small sample of my expertise I will tell you what is wrong with some of your statements.
First, even if the router is not encrypted it is still not the customers fault if others uses his bandwidth without his knowledge. U.S. courts has already ruled on this issue (I'm not posting the link to this ruling [don't have time to search for it] but you can search this info at techdirt.com)
Second, most ISP's sent out their routers at first without encryption enabled, then later with WEP which most routers are setup with, and now for the past year or two ISP's has been setting up their router's with WPA. Now a large group of people out there don't even know how to change the encryption on their routers let alone setting it up on their PC's. If the customer has an old computer it might not even be able to support WPA.
Third, for those of you who are assuming that the customer is actually utilizing the bandwidth get your head out of your corrupted ass. For you to think like that shows me along with many others that this is something you would do. With that said, with data caps being implemented through out North America, more and more people will see their routers cracked. This is do to those people who has or will easily have hit their data cap by month's end. That is where the crime begins. No innocent person should take the responsibility of what a criminal did. (if a thief robbed a bank then stole your parked car to get away, should you be responsible for the theft of the bank. His did use your car to get away) By your argument you should be held responsible for the theft.
Lastly, for those of you who are belittling people who use words that you have no idea on what they mean, get a life and an education. That is what the dictionary is for, and instead of feeling dumb like you did, you should thank the person in educating and providing you with a new word in your vocabulary. Only the ignorant will feel dumb and the knowledgeable will grow and expand their mind.
There are a lot of more points i could make with most of your comments, but I don't have time to point out the mistakes. But I have to say a lot of you are talking out of your ass with no knowledge on what really is happening out their in the business world. ISP's are purposely setting up data cap's and broken usage meters to bring in more revenue to their company. They are intentionally screwing you out of your money. And that is business 101 "how to maximize your profits". To bad there is no ethics in the business world, they will screw before they get screwed. | |
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I don't beleive them
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