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Heartland Institute Leaks Highlight Astroturf Quackery
Comcast, AT&T, Time Warner Cable Exposed as Donors

For years we've watched as the corporate-funded "fauxcademic" group the Heartland Institute took tobacco-industry money, then argued that the industry's ties to cancer deaths were based on "junk science." They've been very active on the broadband front, taking money from incumbent ISPs and then arguing how there is no broadband price, coverage or speed issues, while also fighting tooth and nail against the rights of towns and cities to wire themselves.

The public health community's campaign to demonize smokers and all forms of tobacco is based on junk science.
-Heartland Institute
Heartland isn't having a very good week, with leaked documents and e-mails showcasing how the firm takes corporate cash to sow seeds of doubt about established science and indisputable data. While they have always hidden their funding, the documents show the company takes money from AT&T, Comcast and Time Warner Cable. The documents also show how they're well funded by corporations to attack climate science, particularly in the classroom.

After the story percolated for a few days, Heartland released a statement claiming that one of the documents in the leak was a forgery. "One document, titled 'Confidential Memo: 2012 Heartland Climate Strategy,' is a total fake apparently intended to defame and discredit The Heartland Institute," says the group, which goes on to insist that "honest disagreement should never be used to justify the criminal acts and fraud that occurred in the past 24 hours." However, much of what's in the supposedly fake document is supported in the other documents Heartland apparently acknowledges as genuine.

If you're familiar with the group's actions in the slightest, it is clear that "honest disagreement" has never been on the agenda. On the broadband side, Heartland has contributed to no limit of polluted discourse, using completely bogus science from other incumbent ISP-tied organizations to endlessly dispute clear data showing that U.S. broadband needs a lot of work. They were also instrumental in pushing the "Exaflood" myth, or the idea that the Internet will collapse from traffic growth unless ISPs get what they want (higher prices, no consumer protections, deregulation, no net neutrality rules).

While the climate side of the story will see the most contentious debate, the most interesting bit here on the telecom front is that the ties between the company and their incumbent ISP donors have been clearly highlighted. It's doubtful that anyone at AT&T, Comcast or Time Warner Cable will want to go on the record to discuss their involvement with such a group.
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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pnh102

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Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

Man-made global warming is not "established science." There's been enough bad behavior on the part of the pro-man-made global warming crowd to cast significant legitimate doubt on this particular idea.

The "exaflood" myth can be dismissed based on its own demerits and nothing else. There is no need to possibly give it "credibility" by lumping it into the same category as legitimate criticism of the idea of man-made global warming.

HotRodFoto
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HotRodFoto

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

said by pnh102:

Man-made global warming is not "established science." There's been enough bad behavior on the part of the pro-man-made global warming crowd to cast significant legitimate doubt on this particular idea.

The "exaflood" myth can be dismissed based on its own demerits and nothing else. There is no need to possibly give it "credibility" by lumping it into the same category as legitimate criticism of the idea of man-made global warming.

Global Warming Deniers = The New Flat Earth Society. /end discussion
openbox9
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openbox9

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

The Earth's climate is cyclical and has been since the planet formed. Call it Global Warming or any other label that you'd like to apply, but it's a natural phenomenon.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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pnh102

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

said by openbox9:

The Earth's climate is cyclical and has been since the planet formed. Call it Global Warming or any other label that you'd like to apply, but it's a natural phenomenon.

No doubt. It is well-documented that Earth's climate has changed significantly over the past 4.5-6 billion years that this planet has been around. I'd dare say natural phenomena, like volcanic eruptions, solar activity and other such things do far more to influence climate than man ever could.
tkdslr
join:2004-04-24
Pompano Beach, FL

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tkdslr

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

The fossil record, science, and the mathematics are very clear on this subject. Mankind's rapid addition of CO2 to earth's atmosphere is directly responsible for the current energy imbalance that is warming up the lower biosphere.

If this effect is not mitigated in the near future, earth's biosphere will undergo another massive Extinction Level Event.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

said by tkdslr:

The fossil record, science, and the mathematics are very clear on this subject. Mankind's rapid addition of CO2 to earth's atmosphere is directly responsible for the current energy imbalance that is warming up the lower biosphere.

If you believe the junk science, sure.

And how is man's supposed rapid addition of CO2 any different than when natural phenomena do it? The fact remains that every time a volcano erupts, you have more crap go into the atmosphere than what all of man does.
en103
join:2011-05-02

en103

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

The difference is...
1. "We" are doing it to ourselves - this 'can' be mitigated.
2. While volcanoes are erupting, unless they have a large plume, they're localized. What 'man' is doing, is on a global scale.
3. I do agree that earth itself has a cycle that we cannot control.

We should at least take measures not to kill ourselves any faster than nature would.

AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
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join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ

AVD

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

volcanic eruptions cool the earth

tschmidt
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tschmidt

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

said by AVD:

volcanic eruptions cool the earth

Actually they do both. Particulates tend to cool and CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

The Particulates are relatively short lived and fall out of the atmosphere in a few years.

/tom

firephoto
Truth and reality matters
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join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA

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to pnh102
When a simple graph formed with very basic raw data shows a hockey stick shape in the recent decades of our liives then something is up.

I don't really care if what we're seeing now happened 100,000's years ago becaue we are seeing actual change that has occured over the course of living peoples lives.

If you want to not believe it that's fine, but quit using all the popular buzzwords that the astroturfers put out just to distract from the real issues. To do so is no different than to proclaim it's ok if everyone on the planet starves because we didn't exist once a billion years ago so we're just extra to the whole earth thing so accellerating our own demise is perfectly expected and some guy will be the last man standing and claim the biggest price of all mankind.

And bravo for distracting from the issue of corporate manipulated broadband in this country.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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pnh102

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

said by firephoto:

When a simple graph formed with very basic raw data shows a hockey stick shape in the recent decades of our liives then something is up.

The hockey stick graph was debunked as a result of the leaked emails out of the University of East Anglia Climate Research Unit.

I love hackers.
rahvin112
join:2002-05-24
Sandy, UT

rahvin112

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

No it wasn't. Saying it was doesn't make it so.

97% of the scientists who are experts in the field are in complete consensus that man climate change is real and increasing. It took 20 years to assemble the data to provide enough proof to get that agreement. The effects of this rapid warming aren't fully understood and the best that can be done is build models with inputs and argue over the inputs to those models. As climate science has as a decade as the smallest time division they even look at (at less than a decade it's not climate science) the time scales in climate change are often far beyond what untrained people can comprehend.

It's pretty simple to me, life on this planet will go on. Humanity is likely to survive whatever happens even if there is a catastrophic loss of life, we're very adaptable and we will survive. I don't think the wild claims of a massive extinction event that will destroy the entire planet are real or help the debate on what actions should be taken. The fact is the more CO2 we pump into the atmosphere the more this planet will grow to resemble the planet of the dinosaurs (when CO2 levels were far higher). I don't think that is a good thing myself. The wars that will be caused by reduced resources and famines that will occur are scary, the fact that the entire US breadbasket will move into Canada and much of desert zone that currently lies on the tropic will move into the middle of the country is equally scary. I don't want to hand my children a country without the ability to feed itself because we wanted cheap gasoline.

What's ironic about this whole "debate" is it's funded by people that control the oil and gas industry, and how simple changes made now would do much to blunt the economic effects of reducing carbon output. The best part is that even IF global warming weren't real the amount of carbon based fuels are rapidly declining to the point that they are approaching levels that aren't even economic and if we don't make a strategic shift now we could face more severe economic problems because we aren't prepared for the continual increases in the price of carbon based energy thats inevitable. From my point of view the use of carbon based fuels is a strategic defense initiative, we must reduce consumption if for no other reason than to preserve the remaining carbon sources for the petrochemicals that are absolutely essential to a modern world.

Frankly it shouldn't matter if your ignorantly refuse to accept the scientific consensus of global climate change, the strategic impact to the ability of this country to grow, prosper and defend itself is in jeopardy from our wanton use and exhaustion of carbon based fuels. I've invested heavily in energy (and already seen returns that exceed 20%) simply because carbon based proven resources will continue to grow in value at a rate that significantly exceeds inflation, something I might add that unless it's dealt with directly (by trying to reduce carbon consumption while alternatives are researched and brought online) is going to severely damage this countries economy in the long term.

Or in other words, it's a defense issue so stop focusing on science you don't understand and spend your time worrying about how this country would defend itself if oil was $200 a barrel and we couldn't afford to deploy a navy or airforce in defense of the mainland US. And what that same price of oil would do to our economy if $100 oil results in 10% unemployment.
moonpuppy (banned)
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

moonpuppy (banned)

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

Explain this:

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me ··· m_Period

tschmidt
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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

said by moonpuppy:

Explain this:

»www.ipcc.ch/publications ··· 6-6.html

Global climate change is - you know global. That does not preclude tremendous local variation el nino la nina come to mind as does volcanic activity.

What matters is long term planetary temperature change.

/tom
moonpuppy (banned)
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

moonpuppy (banned)

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

said by tschmidt:

said by moonpuppy:

Explain this:

»www.ipcc.ch/publications ··· 6-6.html

Global climate change is - you know global. That does not preclude tremendous local variation el nino la nina come to mind as does volcanic activity.

What matters is long term planetary temperature change.

/tom

Then maybe you can explain this article from Time Magazine.

»www.freerepublic.com/foc ··· 07/posts

The fact is we have no idea what is going on. The European warming period happened without any industrial help. And it came as quickly as it went away.

tschmidt
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tschmidt

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

said by moonpuppy:

Then maybe you can explain this article from Time Magazine.

Hopefully we both agree CO2 is a greenhouse gas. It helps moderate temperature. It is transparent to viable light from the Sun and opaque to IR radiated back into space.

All else being equal adding CO2 to the atmosphere will raise temperate. Human contribution is significant so temperate will increase as a result of fossil fuel consumption. Societies and culture are finely tuned to local climate, even minor changes will be disruptive. There is also the concern that we will reach a tipping point where suddenly a lot of sequestered CO2 is released with catastrophic results.

You raise a valid point about the developing world, The industrialized world created the problem over the last couple of hundred years, so it is politically difficult to then turn around and ask the developing world to stop consuming fossil fuel. China is experiencing horrendous pollution problems an is actually being pretty aggressive in migrating to alternative sources of energy.

I don't understand the stonewalling on developing greener energy sources. The US excels at developing new technology. Harnessing that seems like a no brainer. US companies make money selling new forms of energy, we reduce our dependence on foreign oil and we reduce green house gas emissions.

/tom
moonpuppy (banned)
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Glen Burnie, MD

moonpuppy (banned)

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

said by tschmidt:

You raise a valid point about the developing world, The industrialized world created the problem over the last couple of hundred years, so it is politically difficult to then turn around and ask the developing world to stop consuming fossil fuel. China is experiencing horrendous pollution problems an is actually being pretty aggressive in migrating to alternative sources of energy.

I don't understand the stonewalling on developing greener energy sources. The US excels at developing new technology. Harnessing that seems like a no brainer. US companies make money selling new forms of energy, we reduce our dependence on foreign oil and we reduce green house gas emissions.

/tom

China doesn't care about its pollution problem. As long as we buy Chinese made products, they will destroy their environment and take everyone else with them. They will continue to use fossil fuels as long as it is cheaper than other forms. And until the rest of the world stops using them for manufacturing, this will be how they continue.

And while we develop the tech, where is it made? Green jobs are a fallacy. China still makes what we develop AND steals the tech at the same time. Even our current President does nothing about all the intellectual and patent theft that occurs in China on a daily basis.

Let's add that wind and solar energy still cost twice as much as coal and natural gas generated electricity. Where are the savings? People are struggling to survive and you want to double their electric bills?

You are asking this country to commit economic suicide and people aren't in the mood to sacrifice anymore.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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Definition: Junk Science

Any evidence, science, theory or observations which disagree with an individual's ideology or political agenda, thereby causing them to label it: "Junk Science."

tschmidt
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CO2
»www.newscientist.com/art ··· ter.html
said by pnh102:

And how is man's supposed rapid addition of CO2 any different than when natural phenomena do it? The fact remains that every time a volcano erupts, you have more crap go into the atmosphere than what all of man does.

What humans are doing is releasing CO2 that has been sequestered for millions of years. So all else being equal the climate will warm because of our actions. Human CO2 dwarfs that released by volcanoes.

/tom
kem09030
join:2004-11-29
Rushville, IL

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If you look at the data it appears we are in or very close to a mass extinction event. It is probably inevitable with how much the oceans are changing, becoming acidic. As CO2 levels rise the oceans absorb more CO2 which lowers pH in the ocean. This makes it harder for animals that make shells to precipitate the CaCO3 or calcium carbonate. Calcium carbonate dissolves in relatively weak acid solutions. Oceans have been acidic in the past but Earth was not a particularly nice place to live.

Needless to say we need to burn less fossil fuels and emit less CO2. We are dumping toxins and polluntants (Hg, Pb, As, U, and many other elements and compounds) in the medium we live in, air, and expect all will be well. The uranium above comes from burning coal. While animals breathe out CO2, common point used in discussions, nature has a way to take care of that, plants. Plants can only absorb so much then the CO2 is in excess of what can be taken care of naturally.

I don't try lay out the facts for those that don't believe in global warming as most of them refuse to even look or read the information provided. Instead they go by what they hear on TV or in news reports. Both of those are poor sources for information on science subjects as those writing the stories have little or no clue how science works. Kind of like the it only a theory argument has come up over the years without people understanding what a theory in science is.

Extinction: »www.nature.com/nature/jo ··· 678.html
(Requires subscription to read article but abstract is available free)

Ocean Acidity: »www.sciencedaily.com/rel ··· 2542.htm
pandora
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join:2001-06-01
Outland

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pandora

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

We have been warmer, and colder. For the past few million years earth has been in an ice age. Currently we are in an interglacial period, known as the Holocene Epoch. Since the glaciation of Antarctica 80% of the time the earth has been in an ice age. During an ice age much of North America, Europe and many other continents aren't habitable by humans as they are covered with ice sheets.

The greatest danger to humanity and to most animal populations is another glaciation, which will eventually arrive.

The Holocene maximum was a period before human technology (other than making fire) and human population (other than in the millions) existed and was a warmer climate period than we experience today.

Anthropomorphic warming is likely to be of little consequence compared to natural climate variation.

Worse the leaks, at least in part, appear to have been falsified. Which would be typical of the global warming folks, who have a long record of fraud.

Visit »www.climatedepot.com/ to begin and understand the nature of our climate and the sad state of the science being used to analyze it.

I recall the first earth day, and subsequent earth days. I recall reading about global cooling as the problem confronting the earth. Then too, the science was settled. Cooling or warming, politicians, corporations, and environmentalists will all try to grab power and money from consumers.

If CO2 from fossil fuels does warm the earth, it's a good thing. I don't believe it can, but welcome the opportunity to plant palm trees in my Northeast driveway. Let me know when that will happen.

As to rising sea levels, the projection by the UN climate committee within the bell curve is for a foot to a foot and a half. That is the same change in sea level we had over the past century. In other words, sea levels rose, before modern technology about as much as they are anticipated to rise in the next century.

Karl, science before political dogma, PLEASE! Fraudulent leaked documents, are not science or news, if anything the fraud may be news, though I doubt you'll put up another article indicating the fraud.

We are enjoying an interglacial period in a long ice age. Warmth has propelled humanity to the best standard of living it has ever enjoyed. Warmth is good for humanity. We thrive when the world is warm.
tkdslr
join:2004-04-24
Pompano Beach, FL

tkdslr

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

The current cycle of mankind/AGW energy imbalance/forcing is far in excess of the variations which triggers ice ages.
pandora
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Outland

pandora

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

said by tkdslr:

The current cycle of mankind/AGW energy imbalance/forcing is far in excess of the variations which triggers ice ages.

We are currently IN an ice age. Triggering something we are currently experiencing isn't really possible, now is it? The Holocene interglacial period (the interglacial period we are currently in) has been longer than usual. It will come to an end.
tkdslr
join:2004-04-24
Pompano Beach, FL

tkdslr

Member

Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

The next Ice age will occur only after mankind's AGW triggered E.L.E. cycle(100,000 to 200,000 years) has completed.

The last one of this severity (PTE) wiped out all large plants and trees for a period of 8 million years.
pandora
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Outland

pandora

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

said by tkdslr:

The next Ice age will occur

WE ARE IN AN ICE AGE NOW. THIS IS AN INTERGLACIAL PERIOD OF AN ICE AGE.

Get your basic facts straight first!
rahvin112
join:2002-05-24
Sandy, UT

rahvin112

Member

Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

An interglacial period is not an ice age. The very words mean that let alone basic geology and climatology. And we're talking 101 level courses here. I'll point you to a rather dumbed down public education level article that should clear up your misconceptions if you bothered to read it (as it was created in 1997 it predates the climate change consensus by several years so please don't claim it's tainted.

»www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ea ··· age.html

The geologic consensus is that the earth at the start of the 20th century was in the tail end of a 3 million year cooling phase that was highly probable to be followed by an ice age and northern latitude glaciation within 10,000 years. The consensus also is that human induced rapid increases in CO2 levels have at a minimum delayed and possibly reversed the formerly predicted ice age (depending of course on final CO2 levels before we exhaust carbon resources or stop burning them). It's also consensus that the start of this cooling period also coincides with the development of humanity from early primates and that the forest loss and creation of savanna in northern and central Africa likely was the environmental pressure that caused the evolution in the first place by displacing those primates from trees and placing them in the vulnerable position of being on the ground. Without going beyond that simple little bit of evolutionary theory lets just say reversing this cooling period and returning the climate to the place it was before humanity developed will have unknown effects as frankly our species in it's current form has never seen those conditions.

So please stop claiming that a interglacial period (or as the words mean a period between glaciers, the very requirement of an "ice age" means exactly the opposite of what it does).
Ghostmaker1
join:2011-07-11
Brunswick, OH

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Would that mass extinction have anything to do with the mini ice age that is coming?
kem09030
join:2004-11-29
Rushville, IL

kem09030 to pnh102

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to pnh102
The Earth is around 4.6 billion years old. The error on that is 100 million years. Definitely not the 6 billion years you have there.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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said by HotRodFoto:

Global Warming Deniers = The New Flat Earth Society. /end discussion

So you have no problem validating all of the junk science that has occurred in order to "prove" that man-made global warming is true?

Perhaps you should read up on the "Climategate" scandal in which a significant number of leaked emails from the Climate Research Unit at East Anglia University in the UK show plainly that the researchers weren't just fudging numbers, they were lying outright. If anything, this is a slap in the face to science as a process for solving problems.

At best, one cannot make any conclusion as to whether or not man has any impact on climate change. But if it was true, then why fudge the numbers or lie? Why not present the actual unbiased science that shows whether or not this is actually happening. The fact that the researchers had to lie shows that their claims had no merit.
moonpuppy (banned)
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Glen Burnie, MD

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moonpuppy (banned)

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

You do realize facts do not matter to the Global Warming alarmists.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

FFH5
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join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

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FFH5

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

said by moonpuppy:

You do realize facts do not matter to the Global Warming alarmists.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

I'd be more impressed with all their claims of the desperate problems that will be caused by global warming IF it all wasn't part of a 3rd world agenda of wealth transfer from industrialized countries to the 3rd world. No plans put forth at the UN would reduce global warming by 1/10 of a degree. But it would result in transferring trillions of dollars and millions of jobs from the 1st to the 3rd world. And that is what the global warming bleating is really all about.

»www.theblaze.com/stories ··· -policy/
»real-agenda.com/2010/11/ ··· ibution/
Original interview of UN official in German
»www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/p ··· 227.html
Use Google translate.

•••••••••
tkdslr
join:2004-04-24
Pompano Beach, FL

tkdslr to pnh102

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to pnh102
You claim that the ten's of thousands of peer reviewed papers written on the subject, are all junk science.

You are not qualified to make any informed judgement about any science, (good or bad).

All of the world government science academy's are in agreement..
The current cycle of AGW is real, and it's mankind's fault.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

said by tkdslr:

You claim that the ten's of thousands of peer reviewed papers written on the subject, are all junk science.

You are not qualified to make any informed judgement about any science, (good or bad).

Again, if the science is so sound, why was there so much outright fraud going on with it? If the research is that solid, that we really are causing global warming, then the science should stand on its own merits, without the need for researchers to fudge numbers or lie outright.

Science is not served well by charlatans and con-artists who purposefully lie about things to advance an agenda.

fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
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fuziwuzi

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Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

said by pnh102:

said by tkdslr:

You claim that the ten's of thousands of peer reviewed papers written on the subject, are all junk science.

You are not qualified to make any informed judgement about any science, (good or bad).

Again, if the science is so sound, why was there so much outright fraud going on with it? If the research is that solid, that we really are causing global warming, then the science should stand on its own merits, without the need for researchers to fudge numbers or lie outright.

Science is not served well by charlatans and con-artists who purposefully lie about things to advance an agenda.

Still trying to propagate that lie. "Climategate" was the fraud, not the work of the climate scientists. The deniers lie. Why do you keep spreading the lie when the lie has been revealed as a lie?
fuziwuzi

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to pnh102
"Climategate" was a manufactured smear campaign by deniers and has been THOROUGHLY debunked. »mediamatters.org/researc ··· 12010002 Now, THAT is a "slap in the face" to lying deniers trying to further their lies onto the public.

•••••
calibax
join:2000-12-08
Sunnyvale, CA

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As a result of the allegations, there have been eight separate investigations of the Climate Research Unit and other climate scientists involvded. All of the investigations have concluded that there was no evidence of fraud or scientific misconduct. The scientific consensus that global warming is occurring as a result of human activity remained unchanged by the end of the investigations

These were not trivial investigations either. They included the UK House of Commons, the UK Science Assessment Panel, Pennsylvania State University, the EPA, the Inspector General of the Department of Commerce, and the national Science Foundation. None of these organizations found any evidence of the alleged misconduct.

I don't know if your deliberately ignoring the results of these investigations or whether you just aren't keeping up with the topic. Google is your friend in this matter.

•••

HotRodFoto
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Denver, CO

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to pnh102
said by pnh102:

said by HotRodFoto:

Global Warming Deniers = The New Flat Earth Society. /end discussion

So you have no problem validating all of the junk science that has occurred in order to "prove" that man-made global warming is true?

Perhaps you should read up on the "Climategate" scandal in which a significant number of leaked emails from the Climate Research Unit at East Anglia University in the UK show plainly that the researchers weren't just fudging numbers, they were lying outright. If anything, this is a slap in the face to science as a process for solving problems.

At best, one cannot make any conclusion as to whether or not man has any impact on climate change. But if it was true, then why fudge the numbers or lie? Why not present the actual unbiased science that shows whether or not this is actually happening. The fact that the researchers had to lie shows that their claims had no merit.

And you apparently have no problem with speaking GOP propaganda? Ask yourself why it is that other countries have outside of the United States pretty much see it as a fact. Are you getting it yet how corporations who have a vested interest in things are putting their money behind things which move to discredit Global Warming? Think about it. Do you REALLY think companies such as big oil support green energy initiatives?

lol @ "Climategate". How about the BEST project (Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature) which the Koch bros actually help fund which showed the effects of Global Warming and debunked "Climategate" completely?

Fudge the numbers? How is not fudging the numbers when corporations are supplying astro-turf propaganda to keep their bottom line and profit margins in check?

Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium Member
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL

Maxo to HotRodFoto

Premium Member

to HotRodFoto
said by HotRodFoto:

Global Warming Deniers = The New Flat Earth Society. /end discussion

Round-earth truthers are quacks. The evidence for it is in dispute and directly contradicts my personal right to live a hedonistic life that fucks up everything and everyone else.
nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD

nasadude to HotRodFoto

Member

to HotRodFoto
said by HotRodFoto:

Global Warming Deniers = The New Flat Earth Society. /end discussion

this should have been the last comment in this thread.

anyone that agrees with the 99% of CLIMATE SCIENTISTS (not epidemiologists or weathermen or astrophysicists or Joe Blow that measures the temperature of his front yard) that climate change is real and is affected by man is wasting their breath arguing with the new flat earthers.

there is literally nothing you can say that will convince them that climate change is real and is being driven by man; you would actually have a better chance arguing with a piece of furniture.

Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium Member
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL

1 recommendation

Maxo

Premium Member

Re: Don't Mix This With Man-Made Global Warming

said by nasadude:

you would actually have a better chance arguing with a piece of furniture.

Dude, everyone with an inch of a brain knows that furniture is a myth perpetuated by the liberal agenda to take away our rights.

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

cableties to pnh102

Premium Member

to pnh102
One high-altitude volcanic burst (lasting more than two weeks) can dump more hydrocarbons, microscopic ash, soot, sulfuric acid and methane in the atmosphere, circle the globe and contribute more in that two weeks than an industrialized nation can in 5 years.
Throw in multiple eruptions, on different hemispheres and you get mother nature cleaning off (aka burying) the parasites!

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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

KrK to pnh102

Premium Member

to pnh102
Climate change is a real phenomena. There's actually been very little "bad behavior" from the scientific community that isn't in the pay of the deniers. Largely the differences lie in the area of "how much effect" not "there's no effect."

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 edit

FFH5

Premium Member

AT&T, Comcast, TWC, etc gave money to Telecom News project

The money given by these organizations was contributed to Heartland's "Infotech and Telecomm News" project and was so listed in the leaked documents as dedicated to ITTN project. So the money was used to collect info on telecomm projects around the country and was used to publish a newsletter.

»heartland.org/issues/telecom
quote:
InfoTech & Telecom News is The Heartland Institute's monthly print publication sent both to paying subscribers and each and every elected official.
»heartland.org/issue-arch ··· com-news

An example of what the telecomm contributors get for their money:
»heartland.org/sites/defa ··· _web.pdf

P.S.>> And as the Heartland editorial states. It is true that US isn't falling behind in broadband. »heartland.org/editorial/ ··· g-behind

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hga
join:2008-05-09
Joplin, MO

hga

Member

This is from the faked document

Check Megan McArdle's detailed take down (HT the Instapundit): »www.theatlantic.com/nati ··· /253165/

But briefly: social engineering got the leakers a set of board meeting documents, all straight to PDF printed form, all dated one or two days before the meeting. Except for this document, which was scanned and is dated weeks later and less than 24 hours before the leak. She also goes into how it's not written in the format or style of the others.

I understand you don't like them (and maybe I wouldn't if I looked closely at them) but don't be fooled by a »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fa ··· document (#1 historical example, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion)

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Charlie Thor
join:2011-12-28
Baltimore, MD

Charlie Thor

Member

Wow

I cant believe there are some many people that still don't thing that man is contributing to the decline of our environment. I challenge any of you deniers of global warming to go sit on the rooftop of a Chinese office building in the heart of a major downtown city during summer. (or LA) Let see how long it is before your body tells you something is wrong. (Since obviously your brain has run amuck.)
georgeglass5
join:2010-06-07
New York, NY

georgeglass5

Member

While the weather patterns are

cyclical, all the soot / chemicals etc, that has been put into the air since the industrial revolution couldn't possibly be helping the cause. Just look at smokers lungs, think the earths not gonna choke at one point or another?