House Democrats Fight Telecom Wiretap ImmunityPropose new bill that gives telcos and privacy advocates their day in court 11:14AM Wednesday Mar 12 2008 by Karltags: legal · business · telco · legislation · privacy · PoliticsTipped by worldvision  Instead of approving an existing bill that would give the phone companies retroactive immunity for their wholesale delivery of user data to Uncle Sam sans judicial oversight, House Democrats yesterday unveiled their own wiretapping bill (pdf copy). Under the proposed legislation, phone carriers would not get immunity, though they'd be able to make their case in a closed-door proceeding without the presence of the plaintiffs in order to protect national security. The EFF, whose whistle-blower case against AT&T would obviously be derailed by immunity, praised the decision: We applaud the House leadership for taking a courageous stand against the president and refusing to grant amnesty to lawbreaking telecoms. The House bill would represent a true compromise on the amnesty issue: customers whose privacy was violated would get their day in court, while the companies would be allowed to defend themselves despite the Administration's broad demands for secrecy," said EFF Senior Staff Attorney Kevin Bankston. "Immunity proponents have been claiming on the Hill for months that these companies had a good faith belief that the NSA program was legal. Under this bill, the companies could do what they should have been able to do all along: tell that story to a judge." Conservatives warned that the bill would be "dead on arrival." They insist that if the phone companies don't have legal immunity, they won't risk cooperating with the intelligence community, hampering information gathering efforts. The House will vote on the bill tomorrow. As previously noted, the President says he'll veto any bill without immunity for AT&T, Sprint & Verizon. The fight over immunity continues just as new evidence emerges showing Verizon Wireless may be giving unfettered network access to the FBI.
Related:- Verizon & AT&T Defend 'Anti-Tech' Positions
- Telcos Making Final Push For Wiretap Immunity
- EFF: One Last Chance To Prevent Telecom Immunity
- AT&T Could Owe You $146,000
- U.S. House Votes Today On Telecom Immunity
- House Denies Telecom Immunity
- U-Verse's Sorry Excuse For Public Access TV
- Republicans Pushing Telecom Immunity Vote
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
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Mount Airy, MD | This Wouldn't Bother Me So Much ... ... except for the fact that I work in an area that would probably be in the fallout zone of a terrorist attack.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
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Noah Vail
Serial Thread Killer
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Lorton, VA
 ·Verizon BroadbandA..
 ·VoicePulse
| I used to see it that way... said by pnh102 :... except for the fact that I work in an area that would probably be in the fallout zone of a terrorist attack. That was while we were arguing over a warrant for one call at a time.
Today, we are cloning all the internet traffic running through peer pipes, and handing the FBI unrestricted access to all Verizon traffic.
This is a pretty good definition of the government spying on all of us. I have moved from support of my government to defending myself from my government.
NV
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Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| Re: I used to see it that way... said by Noah Vail :I have moved from support of my government to defending myself from my government. I think too many people in the USA have no idea what it like to live under a tyrannical, repressive government. I still stand by my view that no one's rights have been violated on a scale major enough to make the claim that we have no rights.
It isn't like the government is rounding up all the people in this country who disagree with the government and making them disappear. The government isn't shutting down websites or newspapers critical of it. The government isn't doing anything infringing more than it has in recent years. I don't see any systemic, prolonged violation of our rights under this administration compared to previous administrations.
I do think though that the Democrat party, in its neverending quest to secure our defeat, is doing everything it can to embolden our enemies. By putting a stop to the government's ability to wiretap, it enables people who would want to do us harm to use another means of communication to do so.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: I used to see it that way... What other country have you lived in to experience this ?
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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| Re: I used to see it that way... said by en102 :What other country have you lived in to experience this ? I don't have to live anywhere else to know.
I do however, read about the daily lives of people living in places like the old Soviet bloc, North Korea, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Zimbabwe, Venezuela, and Cuba to know that in the USA, we have it very good.
You don't have to pee on an electric fence to know that it is generally a bad idea.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: I used to see it that way... Most G8 countries have it pretty good.
And not to sidetrack, but if the U.S. could cut its oil consumption to it being an export commodity, it would be even better.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
| | | | | | SilentMan
join:2002-07-15
New York, NY
| said by pnh102 :said by en102 :What other country have you lived in to experience this ? I don't have to live anywhere else to know. I do however, read about the daily lives of people living in places like the old Soviet bloc, North Korea, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Zimbabwe, Venezuela, and Cuba to know that in the USA, we have it very good. You don't have to pee on an electric fence to know that it is generally a bad idea. Venezuela? You have been watching too much Faux News.
Oh! Millions of energy saving light bulbs have been installed in Venezuelan homes and every single one of them contains a microphone so that the Government can listen in to what people say in their houses. /sarcasm  | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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| Re: I used to see it that way... said by SilentMan :Venezuela? You have been watching too much Faux News. And if you watched any news at all you might not sound like such an idiot when you say that. Perhaps you should try googling for criticisms of Hugo Chavez's human rights record before you spew more verbal diarrhea.
Oh, and I'm adding Bolivia to that list. The fact that 4 eastern states of that country want to secede from the rest of Bolivia is also telling.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
| | | | | | | | ackman
join:2000-10-04
Acworth, GA
 ·AT&T Southeast
| Re: I used to see it that way... said by pnh102 :said by SilentMan :Venezuela? You have been watching too much Faux News. And if you watched any news at all you might not sound like such an idiot when you say that. Perhaps you should try googling for criticisms of Hugo Chavez's human rights record before you spew more verbal diarrhea. Oh, and I'm adding Bolivia to that list. The fact that 4 eastern states of that country want to secede from the rest of Bolivia is also telling. Any you're feeling pretty confident in the United States' record on human rights? When did we let women start to vote? How about how we treat people of color? Slavery really wasn't that long ago. More recently, we unilaterally invaded another sovereign country and killed their leader, violating international law. How many hundreds of thousands of people of Iraqis did we kill in that one? Estimates are as high as 1 million and as low as 300,000. I don't think those were all Bush's "terrorists". Oh, and Chavez? Yep, he was giving low cost heating oil to the poor in our country. You might say he was doing it to shove a stick in devil Bush's eye. But the difference between Chavez and Bush is at least Chavez was helping people in the US. Did you know the US has more people in prison than any other country in the world? Let's not even talk about the alleged "terrorists" we have kept in prison without any right to a trial. How about the ones we rendered and tortured, then let go when we found out they were innocent. Yep, we're just a pillar of human rights.
I'm proud to be an American, I'm ashamed and embarrassed of our government. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: I used to see it that way... said by ackman :Any you're feeling pretty confident in the United States' record on human rights? When did we let women start to vote? How about how we treat people of color? Absolutely. I would never say we are a perfect country, but we do better for people here than just about every other country. Anyone who feels different is free to leave, which unlike the countries I listed, we make very easy to do.
said by ackman :I'm proud to be an American, I'm ashamed and embarrassed of our government. Sure you are. If you are that proud, you would go read up on the facts surrounding the Iraq War as well as Hugo Chavez before you take the Simon Cowell approach to sticking up for "your" country.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
| | | | | | | | SilentMan
join:2002-07-15
New York, NY
| said by pnh102 :said by SilentMan :Venezuela? You have been watching too much Faux News. And if you watched any news at all you might not sound like such an idiot when you say that. Perhaps you should try googling for criticisms of Hugo Chavez's human rights record before you spew more verbal diarrhea. Oh, and I'm adding Bolivia to that list. The fact that 4 eastern states of that country want to secede from the rest of Bolivia is also telling. Watching such news is what makes you write comments so stupid. Unlike you who only watch Faux News or google criticism of Chavez made by ignorants, I go to Venezuela quite often and get involved with the education missions that the Government has instituted there which gives me an opportunity to travel throughout the country teaching people how to read and write; that gives me first hand experience of the Revolutionary process being conducted there. You, on the other hand, know nothing about Chavez or Venezuela or Bolivia (probably can't even find them on a map) except what the ignorants in the corporate press tell you, so you should get educated first before making such illiterate and ridiculous comments about those countries. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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·Comcast
| Re: I used to see it that way... said by SilentMan :Watching such news is what makes you write comments so stupid. ... I go to Venezuela quite often ... Again, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about regarding Hugo Chavez. I can go to Cuba too and see for myself all the wonderful things that Fidel Castro would want an ignorant westerner to see, and then leave the place thinking that he's God's gift to humanity.
Of course, I know better than that. And until you learn more about Hugo Chavez, then there is no point in you attempting to "school" me with regards to what a nice man he might actually be.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
| | | | Red Dawn
join:2004-12-13
Dallas, TX
| I think it's sad when people such as yourself go to "extremes" to try to equate this to what North Korea, Iran, or other countries do. It is not the same. I will say this though, you DO NOT know what information the government has on you, nor how it affects your life. Nor do you know who has access to that information, who you call, what sites you visit, who all of your family, friends are, what you like to eat, etc, etc. All of this in the wrong hands, could hurt you in some way. As to our government not rounding up people with no due process, uh, have you heard of "Rendition", this is very real and the CIA does it every day. If they even think for a sec you got something they want, they take you and whisk you away to some foreign land to "extract" whatever information they can. This isn't hollywood, this is real, being done to american citizens and those aboard with NO oversight. There are many government programs being run by the NSA, again with little to no oversight, to get as much information, no matter how small, on every single person living in this country. So even if you don't have a red flag, they want everything on you, no matter what it is, why? Power corrupts my friend, you should know that, look how our government run's itself. With no oversight, you do not know what could, or will happen with all of this information nor how many people could be hurt through the process. Don't we learn from mistakes? Everyday innocent people are thrown to prison for crimes they did not do. Yes back in the day it was a joke to say they were all guilty, but now days, all of us know a good number of people behind bars shouldn't be there, never did anything. That line will also be broken if we continue to allow agencies full reign over anything they want. Not a matter of if, but when. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
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Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: I used to see it that way... Yawn.
There's this key, it's called "Enter." Use it.
As for your post, it is perfectly valid to illustrate how repressive regimes operate and then compare them to what is going on in the USA to conclude that we still have our rights.
When people like you begin to disappear or are otherwise censored on a mass scale, then I will agree that we have have a serious problem.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
| | | | CableConvert
Premium
join:2003-12-05
Atlanta, GA
| said by pnh102 :said by Noah Vail :I have moved from support of my government to defending myself from my government. I think too many people in the USA have no idea what it like to live under a tyrannical, repressive government. I still stand by my view that no one's rights have been violated on a scale major enough to make the claim that we have no rights. It isn't like the government is rounding up all the people in this country who disagree with the government and making them disappear. The government isn't shutting down websites or newspapers critical of it. The government isn't doing anything infringing more than it has in recent years. I don't see any systemic, prolonged violation of our rights under this administration compared to previous administrations. I do think though that the Democrat party, in its neverending quest to secure our defeat, is doing everything it can to embolden our enemies. By putting a stop to the government's ability to wiretap, it enables people who would want to do us harm to use another means of communication to do so. Yet | |
| | | | Kevin Dupuy
join:2007-04-07
Addis, LA
| 1st: No one is saying US citizens have 'no rights'. And we are lucky and fortunate to live an a mostly free country. Here's the thing: In America, there should be NO way th government should be able to take away any rights, especially those written into the Bill of Rights!
By the way, I've been seeing 'scare-mongering' ads on TV like "THe Senate approved the bill to hear what terrorists are planning. Why hasn't the House? Call your representative and tell them to pass the "Terrorist Surveillances Act". I wanted to call my Rep. and thank him for not approving the spy program, but of course he's retired and we're in the middle of an election for a new one.
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Because there is no patch for human stupidity. Or my DIRECTV Plus DVR. | |
| | | | | amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·EarthLink
| Re: I used to see it that way... said by Kevin Dupuy :th government should be able to take away any rights, especially those written into the Bill of Rights! The right under discussion is privacy which doesn't exist in the Constitution. It wasn't recognized until 1964 as part of a case involving a woman's right to access birth control, and it was based upon a relatively new concept of imposing the Bill of Rights against state infringement which began around 1924.
The protection against search and seizure only says "unreasonable" searches and seizures. Obviously some are reasonable.
I'm not arguing against privacy or better protections against searches. Just that it's not as simple as some people wish it were.
Mark | |
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pnh102
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·Comcast
| said by Kevin Dupuy :By the way, I've been seeing 'scare-mongering' ads on TV like "THe Senate approved the bill to hear what terrorists are planning. What is wrong with the ad? What it says is completely true.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
| | | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
| Damn.. there was this site.. hummm that the government shut down in violation of first amendment rights.. Let's see.. Wikileaks... O ya, guess they are targeting people.
Or how about that group... let's see... Peace Fresno, where the government sent a cop to spy on Teachers and Professionals who spoke up against the government. I guess that doesn't constitute targeting everyone?
Ah ya, it must be nice living in your delusional world. Does it come with blanket bliss and ignorance? | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
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Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: I used to see it that way... said by jc100 :Damn.. there was this site.. hummm that the government shut down in violation of first amendment rights.. Let's see.. Wikileaks... O ya, guess they are targeting people. Ahh yes... and if you actually bothered to read up on the case, it was not the Bush administration that did this, but an idiot judge in California. The ruling was also reversed and the site is back up.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
| | | | | | jc100
join:2002-04-10 | Re: I used to see it that way... But peace Fresno WAS the Bush administration... =) | |
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Tzale
Ron Paul 2008 - Proud Conservative
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NJ, USA
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| said by Noah Vail :said by pnh102 :... except for the fact that I work in an area that would probably be in the fallout zone of a terrorist attack. That was while we were arguing over a warrant for one call at a time. Today, we are cloning all the internet traffic running through peer pipes, and handing the FBI unrestricted access to all Verizon traffic. This is a pretty good definition of the government spying on all of us. I have moved from support of my government to defending myself from my government. NV A good citizen doesn't "support" the Government. A good citizen CRITICIZES the Government... Thomas Jefferson and our founding fathers said it themselves... The Government should fear YOU, you should NOT fear the Government.
-Tzale
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Neoconservatives (G.W.B) are not real conservatives. A conservative believes in defending the Constitution. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - RON PAUL 2008 »www.usconstitution.net/const.html
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mech1164
I'Ll Be Back
join:2001-11-19
Lodi, NJ
| Re: I used to see it that way... said by Tzale :said by Noah Vail :said by pnh102 :... except for the fact that I work in an area that would probably be in the fallout zone of a terrorist attack. That was while we were arguing over a warrant for one call at a time. Today, we are cloning all the internet traffic running through peer pipes, and handing the FBI unrestricted access to all Verizon traffic. This is a pretty good definition of the government spying on all of us. I have moved from support of my government to defending myself from my government. NV A good citizen doesn't "support" the Government. A good citizen CRITICIZES the Government... Thomas Jefferson and our founding fathers said it themselves... The Government should fear YOU, you should NOT fear the Government. -Tzale Quite true, but what is the first responsibility of government? To protect its people from threats. Be that external or internal. By what the Dems in the House are doing we can't do neither. BTW for all those people that cry out Privacy, PSST they don't care. You are not that sanctimoniously worth it to them. | |
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Tzale
Ron Paul 2008 - Proud Conservative
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edit:
March 12th, @11:00PM
| Re: I used to see it that way... said by mech1164 :Quite true, but what is the first responsibility of government? To protect its people from threats. Be that external or internal. By what the Dems in the House are doing we can't do neither. BTW for all those people that cry out Privacy, PSST they don't care. You are not that sanctimoniously worth it to them. The Government obviously is failing to do that... Have you ever been to the Home Depot in Lodi on a weekday morning??? A lot of illegal Mexicans asking for a job (and takes away American jobs)...
Taking away our freedoms in the name of security is NOT protection. It's a VIOLATION of our rights... Of course, you need to use some common sense.
-Tzale
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Neoconservatives (G.W.B) are not real conservatives. A conservative believes in defending the Constitution. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - RON PAUL 2008 »www.usconstitution.net/const.html
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Raptor
Not a Dumptruck
join:2001-10-21
London, ON | Re: This Wouldn't Bother Me So Much ... I live and work in an area where a satellite could fall on me. Stop living in fear. | |
| | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
edit:
March 12th, @10:48PM
| Re: This Wouldn't Bother Me So Much ... said by Raptor :I live and work in an area where a satellite could fall on me. Stop living in fear. you beat me to it. there is a higher chance of being hit by lightning than of being injured or killed in a terrorist attack.
why is there no global war on lightning?
wish I had thought of this earlier: they have already started the global war on satellites.
the people that have this unreasoning fear are the ones that are enabling the gutting of our constitution. Unfortunately, this includes a number of our elected representatives. | |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by pnh102 :... except for the fact that I work in an area that would probably be in the fallout zone of a terrorist attack.
Apart from home-grown fanatics, terrorism has struck the US only once, and it's unclear whether the 2001.09.11 crimes were purely foreign-originated or another Reichstag fire.
Since then any real threat of terrorism has continued only because US foreign policy, including support of Zionism and wars of aggression and plunder, have made enemies; and concern about it has continued mainly because news media have continuously spewed propaganda designed to foster fear, obedience, and support for the belligerent foreign policy.
Objectively, you're far more likely to die from a car accident or falling down stairs than to be directly affected by terrorism.
The whole idea that there is some conflict between civil liberties and security, or that eroding citizens' rights somehow makes us safer, is complete rubbish. If there's evidence of a crime, authorities can get a warrant and spy on someone; if there's no evidence of a crime then there's no reason to think the person is a threat and no reason to think we're unsafe for not spying on him.
How many of the lies have you fallen for? The bizarre idea that Saddam Hussein was a threat to the US? The myth of "Al Quaeda"? The absurd pretence that the oil war was about "spreading democracy"? Better keep an eye on the realities: the Bush gang have bankrupted the nation and taken us far along the path to fascism. | |
| | | rahvin112
join:2002-05-24
Sandy, UT
| Re: This Wouldn't Bother Me So Much ... said by swhx7 :said by pnh102 :... except for the fact that I work in an area that would probably be in the fallout zone of a terrorist attack. Apart from home-grown fanatics, terrorism has struck the US only once, and it's unclear whether the 2001.09.11 crimes were purely foreign-originated or another Reichstag fire. Since then any real threat of terrorism has continued only because US foreign policy, including support of Zionism and wars of aggression and plunder, have made enemies; and concern about it has continued mainly because news media have continuously spewed propaganda designed to foster fear, obedience, and support for the belligerent foreign policy. I think you are needed down at the next racist militia meeting, you'll fit right in. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by swhx7 :Apart from home-grown fanatics, terrorism has struck the US only once, and it's unclear whether the 2001.09.11 crimes were purely foreign-originated or another Reichstag fire. I see.
You get points for using line breaks, but that's it.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
| | ackman
join:2000-10-04
Acworth, GA
·AT&T Southeast
| said by pnh102 :... except for the fact that I work in an area that would probably be in the fallout zone of a terrorist attack. I wouldn't be so worried about the effect of this proposed legislation on your personal safety from terrorism, they're focusing more on wiretapping sex "crimes". | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: This Wouldn't Bother Me So Much ... said by ackman :I wouldn't be so worried about the effect of this proposed legislation on your personal safety from terrorism, they're focusing more on wiretapping sex "crimes". And why shouldn't we expect people who we entrust with enforcing the laws to actually obey these laws? Just because such people do not agree with these laws does not mean they are magically exempt from the law.
Eliot Spitzer is no better than the rogue cops in Montgomery County, Maryland who refuse to pay their speeding camera tickets. They are all punks who believe that they are personally above the law and people with that kind of attitude have no place in government.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
| | | | ackman
join:2000-10-04
Acworth, GA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: This Wouldn't Bother Me So Much ... said by pnh102 :said by ackman :I wouldn't be so worried about the effect of this proposed legislation on your personal safety from terrorism, they're focusing more on wiretapping sex "crimes". And why shouldn't we expect people who we entrust with enforcing the laws to actually obey these laws? Just because such people do not agree with these laws does not mean they are magically exempt from the law. Eliot Spitzer is no better than the rogue cops in Montgomery County, Maryland who refuse to pay their speeding camera tickets. They are all punks who believe that they are personally above the law and people with that kind of attitude have no place in government. I wonder why the good Republican senator David Vitters didn't get run out of office for his prostitute-banging. To my knowledge, prostitution is illegal in Washington DC also. Seems he didn't p*ss off any good old boy Republicans with deep pockets like Mr. Spitzer did. I applaud him for going after the stock exchange folks. Funny how we only go after Democrats when they enjoy a little sex on the side. Republicans seem to surround themselves with their preachers, their American flag lapel pins, and they sink their claws into their desks and hang on. So, go ahead and hang him, certainly a lot better to go after a little sex than after Osama, who is laughing his arse off at our incompetence. Yep, proud to be an American. | |
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rudnicke
Premium
join:2004-10-23
Rantoul, IL
clubs: | I'll be glad When this administration is gone. | |
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Noah Vail
Serial Thread Killer
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·Verizon BroadbandA..
·VoicePulse
| I'll be glad said by rudnicke :When this administration is gone. when the Democrats talk openly, directly, and clearly about WHY attVerizonSprint are being sued and hold that press conference about the DS3 line from Verizon to Quantico.
Until then the Democrats ARE this administration.
NV
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Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd. | |
| | | NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
edit:
March 12th, @12:23PM
| Re: I'll be glad Yes because the dems put the DS3 there since bush failed to do it the first 6 years he was spying on us.
Regular police departments usually have a T1 for their CALEA traces, the FBI probably needs something beefier since they do not just cover a single city, county, or town.
However a DS3 will not be able to just tap everything and every CO or mobile switching station requires multiple OC-48 or OC-192 just to handle the voice traffic in their own areas. Backbone circuits are around 40gb between major hubs. There would have to be a REALLY FRIGGIN HUGE mess of circuits from every city to just copy all the voice traffic going over the PTSN alone. That's just covering voice traffic.
What about all the other hundred ways terrorists can communicate. USPS/UPS/FedEx, Instant Messenger, SMS, in a game like 2nd Life. It's endless.
Want to scoop that all up it would be terabytes or more a minute and there's not a storage system in the world that I know of that can digest that. Even Google.
I'm not going to sit here and defend warrantless wiretapping because it's a flagrant violation of checks and balances. I just think this DS3 has gotten more publicity that it deserves.
Besides is the guy a whistle blower or a disgruntled fired employee. | |
| | | | amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·EarthLink
| Re: I'll be glad said by NOCMan :warrantless wiretapping because it's a flagrant violation of checks and balances. But, that's a different issue. There may be reasons to change the law. But, that's not the telcos' fault. The AG certified a warrant wasn't necessary. The only thing I've seen which could be unclear is that, when AG Ashcroft went under the knife in 2004 the President certified it. Since he's the AG's boss, there's a presumption that that's at least as good.
This was apparent from Comey's testimony, about 2/3 of the way down:
»thinkprogress.org/comey-testimony/
Mark | |
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Noah Vail
Serial Thread Killer
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·Verizon BroadbandA..
·VoicePulse
| said by NOCMan :Yes because the dems put the DS3 there since bush failed to do it the first 6 years he was spying on us. I'm a Bush supporter who's against Bush on this.
My blame for the Democrats
is that in spite of the tremendous political edge
they would get in the upcoming Presidential and Congressional elections,
they're refusing to enunciate the issue.
They won't mention that the lawsuit is over cloning everybody's traffic, instead they choose to let the lawsuit be defined as against wiretapping.
To have so many people, come to the identical wrong conclusion, takes a conscious decision.
They are also choosing to ignore the Verizon-Quantico link.
said by NOCMan :However a DS3 will not be able to just tap everything and every CO or mobile switching station requires multiple OC-48 or OC-192 just to handle the voice traffic in their own areas. All True. But a DS3 can carry 600+voice channel simultaneously and still leave 50+64k channels for bill collecting. This line isn't installed for complete traffic collection. It's for selective packet/voice/record retrieval with no oversight.
said by NOCMan :What about all the other hundred ways terrorists can communicate. USPS/UPS/FedEx, Instant Messenger, SMS, in a game like 2nd Life. It's endless. All of them much more difficult and ungainly than cell and internet usage.
said by NOCMan :Want to scoop that all up it would be terabytes or more a minute and there's not a storage system in the world that I know of that can digest that. Even Google. That's why we have these.
»www.irconnect.com/noc/press/page···d=128618
»www.itjungle.com/tfh/tfh021108-story10.html
The first is the system that can store and sort it.
The second looks to be the collaborative interface that will help tie the data to each of us and share it among other agencies. Neato!
Of course, those are for the NSA's data dump.
said by NOCMan :I'm not going to sit here and defend warrantless wiretapping because it's a flagrant violation of checks and balances. I just think this DS3 has gotten more publicity that it deserves. Yea, all that evening news and front page coverage is almost deafening at times.
said by NOCMan :Besides is the guy a whistle blower or a disgruntled fired employee. Was that a (NSA issued) question? If he was, how does that make any of this go away?
NV
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Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd. | |
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boognish
Premium
join:2001-09-26
Baton Rouge, LA
clubs:
| where are the people.... That always use that quote if they haven't done anything wrong then they shouldn't have anything to hide?
This is one time I sort of agree with that quote. If they didn't break any laws or do anything wrong then they wouldn't need immunity. It is not like a large company under so many regulations and with so many lawyers didn't know the laws and consequences of their actions before hand.
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don't get 2 close 2 my fantasy | |
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See 11 replies to this post | |
nutcr0cker
join:2003-04-02
Chandler, AZ | Where is the nothing-to-hide crowd Neocons are a phunny bunch....lately have seen too many around BBR did the slowing economy result ib most of them being fired or what? | |
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See 7 replies to this post | |
EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | Too bad If there is really a lawsuit that the telcos lost, the only thing that'll happen is that you'll get a new fee on your bill to pay off the millions that will go straight to a few class-action lawyers... | |
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See 16 replies to this post | |
ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Hollywood, FL
clubs: | All this is.. is a way for them to get backdoor immunity. Up front you allow for the suit to take place. Then behind the closed doors, the telcos and politicians sit back and put in a call to Spitzer for advice on which girl is best. | |
| | mglunt
join:2001-09-10
Fredericksburg, VA
·Verizon FIOS
·VoicePulse
| Re: All this is.. I should be able to communicate with known or suspected terrorists in foreign countries without the threat of a wiretap. At the very least, warrants should be issued so that I am done talking by the time they are granted.
Thank you democrats for fighting for my freedom! | |
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