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House Passes Bill Cutting NSA Snooping Funding
by Karl Bode 12:21PM Friday Jun 20 2014
The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) notes that the House of Representatives has passed an amendment to the Defense Appropriations bill that would reduce NSA funding for "backdoor searches." Those searches generally involve the collection of emails, browsing and chat history under Section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act, allowing the NSA to monitor US citizen communications without a warrant. "We applaud the House for taking this important first step, and we look forward to other elected officials standing up for our right to privacy," notes the group.

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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

The Senate

will vote it down. Even if the Senate does pass it, Obama will veto it.

Yes

@66.249.83.x

Re: The Senate

said by ropeguru:

will vote it down. Even if the Senate does pass it, Obama will veto it.

Why wouldn't the Senate pass it? It doesn't end the spying. It only cuts the funding a little. NSA can always shift money around from other activities if they need to keep collecting data. NSA black funds aren't audited closely by anybody.

Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Greenwood, IN
kudos:2

Re: The Senate

The bill doesn't stop them from doing it, it just cuts off the checkbook to pay for it. I'm sure IF it passes, the NSA will just find another way to pay for it, likely by selling some of the collected info to Facebook affiliates.

silentlooker
Premium
join:2009-11-01

1 recommendation

It's a bad law and as such should be voted down. Unless you're doing something wrong, you should have nothing to hide and as such should not care if NSA are collecting your emails and /or recording your phone calls. Being it's done for national security it should be fine.

ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

1 recommendation

Re: The Senate

Nice way to bury your head in the sand. Collection of all citizens communications can and WILL be used against you even if you have nothing to hide. Go against high ranking and powerful incumbent politicians, I guarantee that your data will be pulled and used to take you down.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

1 recommendation

So no matter what the government does, it's ok as long as they say "National Security" when they do it?
--
-Jason Levine
devolved

join:2012-07-11
Rapid City, SD

Re: The Senate

You got it. As far as the government is concerned, that's within the law, even though it violates the Fourth Amendment.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

1 recommendation

Re: The Senate

Sorry, but the government can't violate the law and/or the Constitution and then merely say "National Security" to justify it. If they could, then what would stop them from completely tossing the Constitution and laws aside? Maybe we need to stop having elections completely (National Security) and allow our current leaders of the majority party (National Security) to pick who serves in what positions (National Security). Only if we do this can we ensure National Security. If you have nothing to hide, then you shouldn't fear their new tyrannical rule (National Security).
--
-Jason Levine
devolved

join:2012-07-11
Rapid City, SD

Re: The Senate

Well, they can and they have, it's called The PATRIOT Act. I don't care who you voted for, it is a violation of the law.
devolved

join:2012-07-11
Rapid City, SD
And don't try to pretend that tyranny is a good thing, it's not.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

Re: The Senate

Sorry. I think our sarcasms crossed wires. I read your reply quickly after having seen SilentLooker's post and thought you were being serious (i.e. saying "the government can do this, it's legal, and a good thing") so I replied sarcastically with the intent of demonstrating that allowing the government to excuse any behavior with "National Security" would lead to tyranny.

Any government agency without working checks and balances will lead to corruption (at best) and tyranny (at worst).
--
-Jason Levine
WhatNow
Premium
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

1 recommendation

Re: The Senate

The party that made this even more widespread is now the party cutting the funding. You had better check the bill closely the defunding may be a smokescreen for something a lot worse. The only reason the Senate may not pass it is if a lot of got you unrelated amendments get attached to a good clean bill.

yaplej
Premium
join:2001-02-10
White City, OR

1 recommendation

Re: The Senate

Seriously that's one of my biggest gripes. Good laws with crap tacked onto the back. That should be illegal. Bills should be confined/restricted/limited to a single topic/issue/subject. Also no law should mention race, gender, social status, class or specific faith.

karlmarx

join:2006-09-18
Chicago, IL

3 recommendations

Have you ever seen the video "Don't talk to the police". There is NOTHING you can say that will EVER help you. PERIOD. It's the exact same thing with the NSA. There is nothing they will EVER present to aquit you. PERIOD. I don't care if you are the damn Pope himself, you HAVE done something wrong. PERIOD. And if you piss off the wrong person, you WILL be convicted by evidence they have illegally collected. You can trot out "It's for National Security" as much as you can say "Won't you please think of the children", but that doesn't change the fact that they are BLATANTLY ignoring the consitution of the United States, which as a right wing nut job, I'm pretty sure you support.
Remember, it clearly states "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized"
If you don't understand the fact that my e-mail is "papers and effects", AND CANNOT be searched without a warrant stating EXACTLY what they are looking for, then you don't understand the constitution at all.
--
The best way to defeat religion it to ignore it. Look at Ra/Thor/Zeus, they all thought they were forever.

silentlooker
Premium
join:2009-11-01

Re: The Senate

You forgot that court have given then permission to collect after they presented request to the judge. Sorry but you're totally wrong that the law action is unconstitutional.

karlmarx

join:2006-09-18
Chicago, IL

2 recommendations

Re: The Senate

Please show me where MY NAME is on a piece of paper saying they can collect my e-mail? What, you CAN'T? Please explain to me how MY PAPERS are being searched, without a warrant with MY NAME, and WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR before they swear under oath that is what they need? What, you CAN'T? I'm really confused, because the constitution I read, CLEARLY STATES they CAN'T search ANYTHING of mine without a WARRANT, with MY NAME, and WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR. Maybe in your version of reality, the courts can choose to ignore the constitution, but in the world I live in, WHAT THEY ARE DOING is breaking the HIGHEST LAW OF THE LAND. I'd be willing to bet that in YOUR world, the 13th and 15th amendments don't really matter, and women and minorities shouldn't have the right to vote
--
The best way to defeat religion it to ignore it. Look at Ra/Thor/Zeus, they all thought they were forever.

silentlooker
Premium
join:2009-11-01

Re: The Senate

If what you think they are doing is illegal, get on the us supreme court and rule as such. Until that happens, the only thing people will be able to do is rant on public forum as nothing else will change.

pumpkinhead7

join:2002-06-14
Clarksburg, WV

3 recommendations

Re: The Senate

You are a dillusional sheep.

No

@66.249.83.x

Re: The Senate

said by pumpkinhead7:

You are a dillusional sheep.

No. He is realistic. The law is what the courts say it is. Claiming that your personal reading of the Constitution overrides the courts is delusional. Unless you are prepared to start a revolution and overthrow the government and the police powers they control, the courts rule no matter if your interpretation varies from theirs.

pumpkinhead7

join:2002-06-14
Clarksburg, WV
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

Re: The Senate

Realistic my behind, there is nothing open to interpretation, we have the freedom of unwarranted search and seizure.

Just because you have nothing to hide while you are in the bathroom taking a crap or having a shower why wont you let the government in with their cameras?

How about in your bedroom while with your wife? If you arent hiding something surely you wont mind...
i2Fuzzy

join:2009-02-25
Fort Worth, TX
First of all, you're getting really worked up on an online message board. The government is seriously overstepping, and what they are doing is illegal. I agree with you. You are having too much of an emotional response in a place where it will make no difference.

Second of all, it's a huge leap to go from "silentlooker thinks the NSA is right to be able to monitor emails" to "silentlooker thinks slavery should still be legal and that women and minorities shouldn't have the right to vote." One has nothing to do with the other.
--
Ali
Check Point Certified Security Expert

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
Yes, the courts have said that, in some situations, they can get the warrant *after* they begin the surveillance. A warrant that's essentially a rubber stamp, I might add. And yet, they still claim that this is too burdensome a requirement and they should be allowed to collect data on anyone and everyone as they see fit without any oversight whatsoever.

Our government was built on fear of any one individual/group gaining too much power and instituting tyranny. That's why we have checks and balances. If we let the NSA do whatever they want no matter what the law or Constitution says just because they say "National Security", then what good are the laws or the Constitution?
--
-Jason Levine
devolved

join:2012-07-11
Rapid City, SD
As far as they're concerned, it's easier to spy on everyone rather than spy on certain types of individuals.

If they cared one whit about the Fourth Amendment, they wouldn't open the flood gates and spy on every bit and byte of data flowing across the global communications infrastructure, storing that data in large datacenters and sharing it with foreign countries.

pumpkinhead7

join:2002-06-14
Clarksburg, WV
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
That is absolute horse crap and the most unamerican thing i've ever heard.

The fourth amendment states "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized"

This doesnt mean if some sheep are afraid of their own shadow we can snoop under the guise of "security"

No

@66.249.83.x

Re: The Senate

said by pumpkinhead7:

That is absolute horse crap and the most unamerican thing i've ever heard.

The fourth amendment states "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized"

This doesnt mean if some sheep are afraid of their own shadow we can snoop under the guise of "security"

LOL. You apparently are one of those people that are all talk and no action. Talk tough, but do nothing.

pumpkinhead7

join:2002-06-14
Clarksburg, WV

Re: The Senate

Absolutely not, I vote, I write letters to my elected reps and let them know that I disagree with this type of behavior. I do what I can within the bounds of the law.

silentlooker
Premium
join:2009-11-01

Re: The Senate

said by pumpkinhead7:

Absolutely not, I vote, I write letters to my elected reps and let them know that I disagree with this type of behavior. I do what I can within the bounds of the law.

Exactly within the bounds of the law. The court at this time, have ruled what NSA is doing is legal. That is done within bounds of the law, unless that bounds change, their action is legal regardless how anyone interpet the constitution being only interpetation of 9 justice matters.

pumpkinhead7

join:2002-06-14
Clarksburg, WV
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

Re: The Senate

I disagree that it is lawful, so I will continue to try to educate others on the matter and let my elected reps know that I disagree with it.

Just because people are afraid doesnt give the right to the invasion of my privacy.

The whole if you have nothing to hide line is such a farce and all it does is try to weasel out of the issue. If the government has nothing to hide maybe these secret courts should become public...oh right it doesnt work the other way
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
said by silentlooker:

Exactly within the bounds of the law. The court at this time, have ruled what NSA is doing is legal. That is done within bounds of the law, unless that bounds change, their action is legal regardless how anyone interpet the constitution being only interpetation of 9 justice matters.

The court has ruled that what they were TOLD the NSA was doing is legal. The NSA is likely doing a whole heck of a lot more than what they've even admitted to the courts or their so called political masters (that is, if the courts and politicians even have a vague understanding of what is being done).
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net
The Antihero

join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
said by silentlooker:

The court at this time, have ruled what NSA is doing is legal.

Big deal. The courts once ruled that slavery was legal too.

workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by silentlooker:

It's a bad law and as such should be voted down. Unless you're doing something wrong, you should have nothing to hide and as such should not care if NSA are collecting your emails and /or recording your phone calls. Being it's done for national security it should be fine.

You're a pretty funny guy.

Blob
--
Don't try to follow me, I have a cab waiting. EEEEEEEEradicator!
biochemistry
Premium
join:2003-05-09
92361
Don't feed the trolls.
--
isheavenforreal.com

NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:1

1 edit
said by silentlooker:

Unless you're doing something wrong, you should have nothing to hide


When me and the missis are in bed we are not doing anything wrong, but we don't invite you, nor the government in.

It's not about having anything to hide. It's about constitutionally guaranteed privacy.

I'm not doing anything wrong and have everything to hide because the government has no right to it. And if they have it they will find a way to abuse it.

--
Be a Good Netizen - Read, Know & Complain About Overly Restrictive Tyrannical ISP ToS & AUP »comcast.net/terms/ »verizon.net/policies/
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MTB

join:2007-06-29
Newport Beach, CA

1 recommendation

If NSA has nothing to hide why did they lie about every part of this program. If NSA acted in our best interest where are the IRS emails? Did Lois run her own IMAP server?

How is the NSA working out in Iraq?

If you want to fight terror how about HSBC and all the deaths they caused in Mexico?

Just as long as Keith Alexander gets a cool $1M per month to advise wall street on how to drone kill for dollars we must be safer.. Duh turn off the boob tube!!!
Expand your moderator at work
Chubbysumo

join:2009-12-01
Superior, WI
it will either end up severely watered down, or will stall in the senate.
megarock

join:2001-06-28
Catawissa, MO
Reviews:
·Charter
That's strange considering it was Republicans who started the whole domestic spying program which started in February of 2001 to protect us from the terrorist attacks of September 2001 and wrote the Patriot Act which made the whole thing legal.

What pray tell does Obama have to do with any of that?

ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

Re: The Senate

If you would do your research and be informed, you would have noticed that even the ORIGINAL author of The Patriot Act has condemned the overstepping by the NSA. So it was NEVER intended to be used to the extent that it has.

Unfortunately, though, the government is going to ALWAYS abuse any law that is ever written in order to be the supreme power.

tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

The amendment would block the NSA from using

... any of its funding from this Defense Appropriations Bill to conduct such warrantless searches.
Doesn't this really mean
"Let's get the black ops funding back in to the black ops budget, to make it less visible, and the voters can feel good about us, and will hardly remember we are the do nothing congress." ????
Too little too late from most of this group.

Kilroy
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-21
Saint Paul, MN

They don't obey the Constitution, why think they will obey this

said by Ars Technica :
The amendment specifies that, with a few exceptions, “none of the funds made available by this Act may be used by an officer or employee of the United States to query a collection of foreign intelligence information acquired under section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1881a) using a United States person as an identifier.”
I just see a whole lot of, "No, we weren't using that money to query...". Not like they haven't lied to Congress and the American people before. It also doesn't say they can't collect it, only that they can't search it.

Not feeling safer or more secure, sorry.
--
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." - Robert A. Heinlein

Ericthorn
It only hurts when I laugh
Premium
join:2001-08-10
Paragould, AR

As if it matters...

With all the backdoor funding and appropriations our government does, this is like saying I'm not giving you the quarter for the extra gumball today. Total bs even if it did pass.

el_huason

@108.38.68.x

Funny

The ostriches are out and about today. I wonder who ruffled their feathers ?

"Only two kinds of human beings can be trusted - dead and extinct. All others must be avoided at all costs" me.
posthaste

join:2001-05-20
Champaign, IL

Money is Fungible

Uh, what am I missing here? Unless the NSA is under a line-item budget, which I very much doubt .. this is government, then can't they play a shell game and move money around to fund whatever program they want?

The criminal political class here in Illinois has been doing that for years. Raise gasoline taxes for road improvements, then raid those funds to buy votes with some new boondoggle legislation.
--


NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:1

Typical Feel Good Political Forked Tung Double Talk

"... bill that would reduce NSA funding for "backdoor searches."

Will NOT significantly reduce the actual amount of such snooping and wholesale data collection of non targeted citizens. To the government all citizens are targets.

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Be a Good Netizen - Read, Know & Complain About Overly Restrictive Tyrannical ISP ToS & AUP »comcast.net/terms/ »verizon.net/policies/
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Packeteers
Premium
join:2005-06-18
Forest Hills, NY
kudos:1

Re: Typical Feel Good Political Forked Tung Double Talk

agreed, nsa has funding up the yin yang - it will just dip into it's many other secret funds to keep all backdoors open to them, while politicians get to feel like they are relevant.

David
I start new work on
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:101

1 recommendation

hail hydra!

Hail Hydra!!

ashrc4
Premium
join:2009-02-06
australia

To clarify

"UNreasonable" searches isn't clear when internet is considered a public space and effects are TOSs'd around like free candy.
The bill if it goes ahead comes into effect in 2015. There is no retract on previous hardware/software implimentations and they will continue to more accurately target those of interest through diversity through sub-contracting.
Hope the bill does succeed!
my 2 cents.
ash.