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story category How Hard Will FiOSTV Hit Comcast?
FiOSTV only in 5% of Comcast markets so far....
(old news - 06:20PM Wednesday Sep 19 2007)
tags: Video · Fiber · competition · business · Comcast · Verizon FIOS
Tipped by Jon See Profile
The Goldman Sachs Communacopia conference in New York this week has been nothing if not a soundbyte machine for high-level broadband industry execs. Comcast COO Stephen Burke took time to take a few potshots at DirecTV, while also commenting briefly on FiOS competition. Burke notes that FiOSTV has only been deployed in about 5% of Comcast's markets, and insists that it "remains to be seen" if Verizon's business model was sustainable in the long-term. "We do think competition is going to get worse, not better," said Burke.

Early studies on the competitive impact of FiOS on the cable industry have shown that overbuilders like RCN are being hit harder than Comcast. Sanford Bernstein Senior Analyst Craig Moffett is recently told investors that TelcoTV (FiOS, U-Verse) isn't much of a threat. Five years from now, in the year 2012, he predicts AT&T will serve just 23% of all U.S. households with U-Verse, while Verizon will serve just 15% with FiOS.

Click for full size
After five years and more than $23 billion spent, Verizon's FTTH investment (the most ambitious of all the baby bells) still won't have reached very far into cable competitor territory. By 2012, Moffet predicted the following cable market overlap for FiOS: Comcast, 34%; Time Warner Cable, 25%; Cox, 16%; Cablevision, 79%.

Verizon finished the second quarter with 515,000 TV subscribers to Comcast's 24 million. Also remember that Comcast is seeing explosive growth on the VoIP front, signing up phone customers (3 million in two years) faster than Verizon can add TV subscribers. Of course who "wins" is irrelevant if we don't see lower prices thanks to the competition -- and so far prices seem to be rising.

Related:
  1. Comcast Self-Install VoIP Kits
  2. Comcast HD Image Quality Vs. FiOS
  3. Verizon Promises Not To Cherry Pick Philadelphia
  4. Comcast Attacks Verizon Over HD Claims
  5. Comcast Successfully Delays Philly FiOS
  6. Verizon Laughs Off DOCSIS 3.0
  7. DirecTV, FiOS Top HD Offerings
  8. Comcast Internet Video Launching Before Year End
Forums » How Hard Will FiOSTV Hit Comcast?
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Post a:
66466388

join:2006-11-22

Take a hit

i hope it hits them well enough, and LOWER THE PRICES OF CABLE ,PHONE AND INTERNET
damn it
nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast

Re: Take a hit

said by 66466388 See Profile :

i hope it hits them well enough, and LOWER THE PRICES OF CABLE ,PHONE AND INTERNET
damn it
hahahahahahahahaha - you funny; lower prices are not in the near future for the U S of A.

plus, it says overbuilders, like RCN, are being impacted the most. As soon as we reach duopoly equilibrium, you can count on regular price increases; even now, FIOS has done nothing to lessen the annual cable tv price hikes and verizon has even raised tv prices recently.

lower prices - you funny

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME

quote:
Of course who "wins" is irrelevant if we don't see lower prices thanks to the competition -- and so far prices seem to be rising.
Lower prices won't happen in the long run. This just means tighter profit margins, and everyone bundling more stuff to justify raising prices. Lower prices will be offset by higher service fees, installation fees, package changing, etc.
--
Canada = Hollywood North
matrix3D

join:2006-09-27
Deep River, CT

Re: Take a hit

Tighter is a relative term. When your profit margins are so huge to begin with, it begs the question as to how it becomes that way, doesn't it? I always find it hilarious when they justify the price increases as being related to increasing costs and yet they report record profits. I'm sorry, but if you raise prices equally to the amount that your costs increase... shouldn't your profitability remain the same? You don't need college level economics to figure that one out, it's elementary mathematics.

MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19
·Comcast

said by 66466388 See Profile :

i hope it hits them well enough, and LOWER THE PRICES OF CABLE ,PHONE AND INTERNET
damn it
Is $130 too expensive for all three? That's around regular price after the $99 year is up. I, personally, don't see that as all that bad.

ztmike
Mark for moderation
Premium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN

internet?

Who cares about the tv portion, Comcast needs to be hit where it counts most with their service which is the internet.

Might straighten Comcast out with their "Sandvine" and caps.

N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs

Re: internet?

Explain "sandvine". I've never heard it before...

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

Re: internet?

said by N3OGH See Profile :

Explain "sandvine". I've never heard it before...
"sandvine" = how comcast is thwarting bit torrent seeding by sending forged RST packets to other peers.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth

N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs

Re: internet?

Thanks....
LostInWoods

join:2004-04-14
Google or Wikipedia is your friend. Educate yourself.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

Yea... Hit Comcast where it hurts in the HSI arena... Comcast... the cable tv company, ... Comcast "cable"... TV.. Video...

In case you didn't notice, comcast is a Video provider first, HSI and phone second. Everything revolves around the video product, not HSI.
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..."

CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12

Re: internet?

said by fiberguy See Profile :

Yea... Hit Comcast where it hurts in the HSI arena... Comcast... the cable tv company, ... Comcast "cable"... TV.. Video...

In case you didn't notice, comcast is a Video provider first, HSI and phone second. Everything revolves around the video product, not HSI.
Too true.. internet is actually where you would hit Comcast LEAST.. Well.. phone is.. then internet.

Video is the CORE BUSINESS. Youve got 23 million video customers who also generate On Demand/PPV revenue. What extra revenue will an internet subscriber generate? Its capped. ( pun intended) you will not see another dime from them and the prices havent been raised in years. Speeds have, prices havent.
23million Vs 8mil ( although Im sure that number is far greater this year)
DSLR Die Hards really need to start realizing their passion for speed and bandwidth is, at this stage in the game, a minority.
Fios would see a bigger gain overall if their penetration only housed DSLR addicts. But Joe College guy and John and Mary home owner do not care at all about 6, 8, 16, 30Mb. They just want an always on connection so they can compare prices on cars and insurance. And THAT is who your core customer is.
--
CableTechs.org/"Horrible People with Integrity"
kreggo

join:2003-03-10
Pearland, TX

Wish I could get FIOS

I wish Verizon could expand into ATTs turf and give me FIOS. I'd like to see the Telcos compete against each other. Let me chose between ATTs cheaper, crappy, antique, copper cable and Verizon's more expensive, fast fiber service for my internet.
I couldn't care less about TV.

ieolus
Support The Clecs

join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA

Re: Wish I could get FIOS

There is absolutely nothing stopping Verizon from doing that.. oh, other than a gentlemen's agreement amonst RBOCs not to compete against eachother, oops.
--
"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp
Answer Guy

join:2006-07-28
Grass Lake, MI

Re: Wish I could get FIOS

That is not completely true. Verizon and AT&T do compete against each other for local and long distance service. This area is very, very small, so it is not a huge shcok that 99.9% of people don't know about it.

tc1uscg

join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI


1 edit

Re: Wish I could get FIOS

said by Answer Guy See Profile :

That is not completely true. Verizon and AT&T do compete against each other for local and long distance service. This area is very, very small, so it is not a huge shcok that 99.9% of people don't know about it.
VZ can eat crap. They are the worst cherry pickers out there (and people said AT&t would do the same after the franchise issue was cleared up). They might have a nice product but they only put it in areas they don't have to really go head to head. Guess when it comes down to it, they can't compete on a large scale. With Comcast, WOW, AT&T, and a few others in the Detroit metro area, they take the back roads to avoid this area. Too much to compete with.

PGHammer

join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs:
·Comcast

Re: Wish I could get FIOS

Oh, really. Don't tell Prince George's and Howard Counties that (both in Maryland), where it's strictly VZ vs. Comcast (there is no overbuilder presence in either jurisdiction). In Michigan, it's AT&T that is the ILEC servicing your area (via their acquisition of Ameritech); if VZ were to come into that area, *they* (not AT&T) would be the overbuilder. Even in areas where AT&T *is* allowed into the local phone service business (such as Maryland) they are often not deigning to compete heads-up with VZ (let alone Comcast) in terms of services (both AT&T *and* SBC had regulatory approval to provide local phone service in Maryland prior to their merger; however, except for large-business and governmental customers, AT&T does not do that today, let alone provide U-Verse service). So who is cherry-picking?

tc1uscg

join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI

Re: Wish I could get FIOS

Ouch.. got me there.. Didn't say the telco's themselves were not cherry pickers. My point was VZ can come into this area of Detroit (5+ million customers on tape) if they wanted to, but have no desire. They sell less longdistance then a reseller from what I was told by a vz sales rep out in the western part of the state. VZ even went as far as laying off scores of wireline people a couple years go (leaving many switch sites and CO's undermanned if manned at all). Why would they want to come here and spend millions to over build, as you say, this area when they know that the likes of AT&T can cut the price of their service to counter any impact they might have. They may thrive in other places but this market would be a good example of how they would not be able to turn a profit for many many years, if at all.

jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs:

they have a killer product

they just arent in the markets i live in and have lived in so i cant switch if i wanted to.
b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA

1 edit

I would drop Comcast in a heartbeat

If I could get FIOS.
avguser

join:2003-02-09

I'm Switching

Two-year FIOS Internet user here and I just signed up for a FIOS TV install in October. the TV side finally became available in my neighborhood. So, for this user, Comcast is getting hit hard. SAme for my neghbor, too.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

T.V.

Theres really not much competition on video(everyone rapes/gouges on video)
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth
maxpower

join:2006-10-09
Providence, RI

Re: T.V.

That doesn't mean there is not competition. Same thing happens with oil companies.

dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus

join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
DishTV does a good job of competing for low end video packages. Once you cross the middle ground I don't think they save you anything.
rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
·Comcast

winning

verizon has a total of 500,000 video subs. a rough guess would probably be between 100.000 - 200,000 of them was even comcast subscribers. now consider of the 3 million subs comcast signed for phone service probably 1-2 million of them was verizons subs. kind of shows who is winning.
Answer Guy

join:2006-07-28
Grass Lake, MI

Re: winning

This relationship between phone service and video service means nothing unless you know the profit margins for each service. Without knowing the margins, you can't even compare 50 million to 100,000 customers.

johndoe303

join:2003-01-01
Boca Raton, FL

Verizon over all others!

imo Verizon is winning on all fronts.. They're leading with HD PQ with FiOS Tv and they're winning with HSI from FiOS Internet. While they did increase their prices it's ok, they're still cheaper on on par and providing MUCH more service. It seems everyone I talk to on any site WANTS FiOS.. Not just our little bubble here, everyone from gamers to people in my industry. As FiOS becomes more available expect to see these numbers jump. It's a better product and everyone wants it period.
--
WRTSL54GS v2 + WRT54G v2
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

Re: Verizon over all others!

This is an opinion - not a fact. "Everyone wants Fios"... if that was the case, everyone in the wired area would jump.. and they are not. They are not winning on HD PQ.. please show the data to back it up. They broadcast the same as Comcast.. they do, however, beat the birds.

You can say FiOS will jump in numbers as it becomes more available - no kidding.. that is obvious. now, lets look at penetration numbers and then lets talk.

I'm not saying FiOS isn't good.. it's a great service.. however, it's not what you and some others try to make it out to be. Fiber to the home is nice, but there are still many people out there that won't simply deal with Verizon.. just like some won't deal with (insert cable co's name here).

Ever try to get a tech appointment on a DSL issue with Verizon? When did you finally lose it? When they asked you to change the phone cord to the modem? remove all the filters? put them back on? unplug all the phones? move the modem? or jump up and down on one foot, pat your head and rub your belly? I've been migrating my accounts away from Verizon at every opportunity because of their lack of care or service. Not being able to get a tech to roll with out going through about 30 questions and "physical trouble shooting" (great for my 70 year old parents) and the blah-zay attitude is just one of the reasons that people would avoid the FiOS product.

What people need to understand, and this goes for the company mouth pieces pushing their product, is that people don't buy on technology, price, or perceived value alone.. MANY People buy from a company that treats them well, is trustworthy, or one they are comfortable with as well.

So in general, while your comments represent you, they don't necessarily represent the over all picture.
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..."

johndoe303

join:2003-01-01
Boca Raton, FL

Re: Verizon over all others!

Seriously you should try and get a life.. All I see you do is troll this site spouting off the same opinionated stuff. I made a simple post based on my opinion, nothing more, nothing I should have to defend.. and UH OH here's fiberguy. I see you in every FiOS thread throwing stones, and playing that same old song.

The PQ is superior, jump off this site and visit any AV based site you'll find your proof. The PQ has come a long way, at one time Comcast was actually rated better!

As for people jumping to FiOS, they will as the word gets out, try and be realistic. For one example in most cases it's STILL cheaper after the recent price increases. The only people that are burning to have FiOS our HSI enthusiasts like us on these sites. To the average consumer it would involve change and in turn is thought of as difficult. There are a few educated tech savy consumers out there.. These people make up a majority of currently subscribed (ie. early adopters) FiOS customers.

I could care less about those few who refuse to deal with Verizon it's their loss IMO. I find that in many cases those who have trouble with CS from any company come unprepared or fail themselves more then anything. Nope, never had Verizon DSL.. We're talking about FiOS here.. However, I did have BS DSL.. Don't even get me started. We STILL don't have extreme in my neighborhood.. yet EVERYONE around us does. I would gladly take FiOS HSI & TV to POSSIBLY suffer through their supposidly lacking cs. I've honestly never had good service with any of my providers except Adelphia IMO.. Then again I didn't have to deal with any of them much.

Wrong. I buy for technology, price, perceived value, and customer service which happens to take a distant fourth in the list. I usually don't have to deal with CS, in the rare occasion I do.. The service I receive should make it more then worth my time.. If not, I do not need their services and I'd be a fool to stay with them.

"So in general, while your comments represent you, they don't necessarily represent the over all picture", back at ya. Next time save us all the trouble.
--
WRTSL54GS v2 + WRT54G v2

Watchthekoolaid

@nauticom.net

Re: Verizon over all others!

I'd like to see this AV site that opinion-ates, officially, that Fios HD is better than Cable across the nation. Was this just in a particular area? Now, Fios SD is superior to NON-ADS cable providers, I've seen that from TVPredictions, SatelliteGuys, and AVS. In theory, Fios and Cable have NO difference in HD. They both send unmolested Mpeg2 straight from an OTA source. In some areas, for cable, the mhz that the channel is on has interference. Most people confuse this with "Comcast is compressing my HD!". Right. Fios SD is pure digital, which is nice. Comcast has markets were their SD is pure digital as well, it's simulcast along side the analog.

Fios is excellent competition. Unfortunately, it has become the "Cadillac". While a Chevy may be cheaper and outperform, it doesn't have that hood ornament like a Caddy. Fios phone and TV service are not above it's competition on a national basis. Area by area, there are markets were Fios is better and others were cable/bird/ATT is better.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

Are you really kidding with this post?

Nice flame, by the way.

I throw stones in every Fios thread huh? Do your homework next time and you won't look like a complete idiot.

Your follow up to my post, which is only trolling because you have NO other way to respond, still backs up my comments to begin with. It's YOUR opinion and you are passing it off for fact. I asked you to back your statements and you've done nothing.

You said the PQ is superior.. now at least.. before you said HD. That is simply not true... and has been discussed here before and that previous discussion is not on your side. The only thing Fios HD PQ is superior to, as I said, is the bird. The beauty of this site is that your posts are still there.. go back and check it out.

I don't even need to continue on with your post because while you say you are talking "outside your own bubble" you simply aren't! You continue to talk about bubbles and small groups... in fact, you can't even keep your story and facts straight.

You said: "Wrong. I buy for technology, price, perceived value, and customer service which happens to take a distant fourth in the list." I thought we were talking in general, and here you come on with this "I" word again.. wow. The average consumer doesn't give a rat's ass about technology.. perceived value and price are tied for first, service is second, and technology comes in a dead last.

I would love to hear where you get your facts...

you call me a troll... why, because I called you out on your post? If that makes me a troll, in your bubble, then I'm a troll... but I'm still closer to correct than you are.
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..."
BarneyBadAss
Badasses Fight For Freedom
Premium
join:2004-05-07
00001
·Verizon FIOS

Oh Pluheeese....

leme see where to begin??

said by fiberguy See Profile :

Ever try to get a tech appointment on a DSL issue with Verizon? When did you finally lose it? When they asked you to change the phone cord to the modem? remove all the filters? put them back on? unplug all the phones? move the modem? or jump up and down on one foot, pat your head and rub your belly? I've been migrating my accounts away from Verizon at every opportunity because of their lack of care or service. Not being able to get a tech to roll with out going through about 30 questions and "physical trouble shooting" (great for my 70 year old parents) and the blah-zay attitude is just one of the reasons that people would avoid the FiOS product.

I guess you've never called a provider because of some external piece of equipment not providing a connection so you can't get on the i-net eh?

many of those same csr's you speak highly of want you to do the same things.. wait until it's a full moon then bark ans bay at it.. bow to the west...

Hey.. I had a tech that came to my location (I was loosing connection.. because the coax was bad at the tap) tell me my problem was because I had 2 computers hooked up to the same printer at the same time!!!

Dude..

1). get a life
2). get your facts straight
3). I call my parent's DSL provider from across the continent to get it fixed for them... you should learn how to do the same.

Gezzzzz....
--
---Barney
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20


1 edit

Re: Verizon over all others!

You are a complete dumb ass and offered NOTHING in your post...

Other than demonstrating what a troll and a Blatant Flame really is. ...

DUDE... as you say.. what's the point to your post? I'm an idiot because of what Verizon actually said to me on the phone? It's pretty clear YOU have never called Verizon.

man.. I just can't even big to grab what you point is...

But I will say.. pretty typical on the get a life comment.. take your own damn advice ass hole.

For the record, I was remoted into their computer at the time, prema-donna, saw the poor sync rate and so did they.. they still refused to send a tech out after three calls.. my moms, dads, and then mine..

Stupid troll.
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..."
BarneyBadAss
Badasses Fight For Freedom
Premium
join:2004-05-07
00001
·Verizon FIOS

Re: Verizon over all others!

said by fiberguy See Profile :

Yawn...ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

more nonsense...
--
---Barney
jgantert

join:2004-06-02
Columbia, MD

Wait and see...

Verizon TV will drop like a rock when the new IMG is pushed to all of its customers.
BarneyBadAss
Badasses Fight For Freedom
Premium
join:2004-05-07
00001

Re: Wait and see...

oh sour grapes
--
---Barney

Richard B
Fur It Up

join:2007-06-22
Portland, OR

Fios not hit hard

Any effect of fios is negated in high density areas due no wide spread deployment to MDUs. Verizon keeps on saying the check is in the mail but I have not seen it.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY

forestalling success.

The problem with Verizon FIOS is not very complicated. They have a relatively solid Internet broadband product, which is relatively competitively priced. However, that's about where the success of FIOS ends.. the Phone and TV products are somewhat flat-to-lagging, and for good reason. Both TV and Phone have their "hangups":
TV has few, if any tangible benefits such as lower price/higher quality service compared to a wired or satellite cable company. Sadly fiber optics itself is the only selling point, but SO WHAT?! Consumers don't care if it were delivered by Avaian Flu epidemic. Phone service relies primarily on an overburdened (with taxes/unfees) legacy pricing/feature sets. If a real comparison can be made.. FIOS works at a MAJOR DISADVANTAGE to cable or 3rd party voip services. Put these together, and you see bundling is the only way customers MIGHT bite, unless they are taking the Internet product only solely based upon Comcast, or any other provider's lack of QUALITY OF SERVICE, nothing more.

Also, the statistics don't lie.. at the 5-year mark, clearly Verizon is targeting Cablevision for overbuild more than the other carriers, so those with AT&T overlap or Verizon areas with slow build-out your screwed for the foreseeable future.
I recommend moving, if possible (then municipalities will get the message that customers WANT FIOS, well maybe not FIOS, but competition). What is not commonly known is that Verizon IS actually seeing an uptick in subscribers for it's services in the northeast (no surprise Internet leading the pack vs phone vs TV). Cablevision is making LESS money (ONLY ON THEIR RESIDENTIAL CABLE SERVICES) despite a perpetual $90 subscription deal AND one of the HIGHEST docsis cable-modem speeds in the industry. This is something that CAN'T be ignored by the areas with small overbuilds. Verizon isn't stupid here, they're choosing not to be that competitive in areas where overbuild footprint is very small, because they don't have to.. yet, they're happy with getting comparably market rates (not one-size fits all) and selling the service on its own merits/problems. Whether that's a wise strategy for longterm success... well.. some would say it follows their business motto: making progress every day.. well, when your at the bottom of the heap (in non-cablevision areas), where can you go but up?
Just not terribly fast - like broadband.
u3912974

join:2007-07-31
San Francisco, CA

Fios won't effect SF

There are no plans for Fios here in SF. So, it doesn't mater here. Comcast rules the roost. It won't how any effect. It fact I hear many bad things about Fios billing practices in other threads. Plus it doesn't seem that they are willing to offer any lightning speed comparitively. They only offer 15/2 I believe. And let's face it if SF and San Jose aren't using it then nobody will.
old_wiz_60

join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA
·Verizon FIOS

Greater Boston

Well, Verizon finally got permission to offer TV service in our town, and wouldn't you guess that on my very next bill from Comcast, the price had increased! It sounds so strange that the moment there is competition you RAISE your prices? Wouldn't you think this would be a time to cut prices at least a little?

I haven't heard from Verizon yet (I do have FIOS internet and phone), but from what I've seen it will be difficult to tell if it costs more or not. The packages are not the same regarding channels included and Verizon doesn't want to tell you what the total cost is anymore than Comcast. They both want to quote prices without the extra fees but won't tell you what the extra fees will be until you sign up.

NOCOMPETITION

@nextweb.net

They won't hit anything

While programming from FiOS TV is reasonably priced in my area, the hardware fees are very high so by the time you pick up extras like an HD-DVR they aren't that much cheaper if at all. Plus Verizon is already in price hike mode. In my area they're already taken substantial increases in both HSI and video services.
alchav

join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC

FiOSTV is not a proven Product!

I think Verizon is sitting very pretty with their FTTH, but they have not proven their TV Product. They can run circles around the Cable Companies and the Dish Networks, but their TV Technology has not been proven. Verizon has the biggest Pipe of anyone, but they are failing to make this a selling point. DirectTV says they can give their customers 150 HD Channels, I think FiOSTV can double that easily. Come on Verizon Wake Up!
Forums » How Hard Will FiOSTV Hit Comcast?


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