 | | lol One hour on you tube your out of bandwidth. You can't even download movie previews! | |
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 |  en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: lol I wouldn't even be able to download a Linux ISO image. | |
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| |  Subaru1-3-2-4Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT | Re: lol man.. I burn that in 10 min... | |
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| |  dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | said by en102:I wouldn't even be able to download a Linux ISO image. I couldn't download any "Research Videos"! 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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| | | | | Re: lol The Better Business Bureau is always a good help in a situation like this. They've got a lot of power, and companies fear getting a bad rep with them.
I would simply tell the company "screw you, you changed the terms of the service; this is not what I agreed to," and then split.
If they were so stupid as to take you to small claims court to collect the remainder of their contract, I suspect you'd find the judge quite sympathetic; more than likely, Hughes would end up paying your court costs as well as eating the contract cancellation fee.
Another good place to go is the local state Attorney General's Office Consumer Protection Division - most states have these. Quite often they'll get involved in something like this.
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He who hesitates is lost.
My Blog
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| | | | | | Re: lol It is my experience, from both sides of the BBB equation, that the BBB is as useless as mammalian protruberances on a male of the genus sus. Hell, I even had a woman from the BBB tell me once that there was little they could do of any consequence.
On the other hand, calling one's Department of Consumer Protection AND State Attorney General's office and giving them a heads up(be prepared with documentation. Keeping a log of all communications, leading up to the point of calling, is a Very Good Thing) can be very effective. If you doubt that, just look at The State of New York: They have very responsive and proactive consumer protection and it shows. Keeps a lot of companies honest. | |
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| | | | Reviews:
 ·Frontier Communi..
 ·US Cellular
| Better Business Bureau I found the BBB to be completely without teeth when I complained to them about the quality of the Atlanta local stations on DirecTV. (The have severe ghosting, worse than off air with poor reception)
The response after months was nothing from DirecTV and the BBB says that they DirecTV are not a member and that there was nothing that they could do.
I notified the FTC also, but they said that they only respond to trends, not individual complaints. They didn't explain how they were alerted to these 'trends'.
Maybe the state's attorney general will be some help.. | |
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| | | | |
2 edits | Re: Better Business Bureau I've used the BBB a couple times and they were very helpfull - at least for me. They got the company's attention.
Yeah, you have to present a good case, and you have to have good documentation - without which, you're toast.
In this instance, where if it really said in their contracts, that the contract would be null and void if Hughes changed the service, Hughes is toast.
But they're toast anyways, if they unilaterally changed the terms and conditions of the contract. That's basic contract law.
You sign an agreement with Hughes to provide a certain type of internet access, the terms of which are spelled out clearly; so much downstream and upstream bandwidth, with a certain bandwidth cap that cuts in at X MB/day and lasts for a certain specified period.
They come back and unilaterally change the conditions of the contract - lower the cap amount and lengthen the duration of throttled time - then you no longer have a contract.
Where a party to a contract is guilty of serious prospective inability or unwillingness to perform, the other party may make a demand for "adequate assurances of due performance." UCC 2-609 provides: 1) the aggrieved party is permitted to suspend his performance; 2) he is given the right to require adequate assurance; 3) failure to supply adequate assurances may create an anticipatory breach and thus give rise to all of the remedies available for such a repudiation. Some jurisdictions have extended the doctrine to contracts of all types, not just those for the sale of "goods." (See,
Norcon Power Partners v. Niagara Mohawk Power Corp. 92 N.Y.2d 458, 705 N.E.2d 656 (1998) Hughes has repudiated their contract.
Thus, what I would do if I were a Hughes customer, is send them a letter telling them they are in material breach of their contract. I'd give them a certain timeframe (10 days) to re-institute the service I originally agreed to; then after the 10 days had lapsed and if my service hadn't been restored, I'd send them a second letter telling them our contract is null and void because they had failed to perform and that because of their non-performance, the contract therefore cancelled - all because they had failed to live up to the original agreement.
I would also bill them for any amount I had paid since they changed the terms of service (pro-rated on a monthly basis).
Send copies of this to the BBB, the President of Hughes, the AG's office, and maybe some local TV stations. Show these as cc's on the letter to Hughes.
I guarantee (if everything as it was stated) they will fall over themselves to cancel your service and maybe even give you a refund. Companies hate bad PR; they also hate to look foolish in public.
Note: Calling them on the phone is a complete waste of time - you'll never even get close to speaking with someone in authority.
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He who hesitates is lost.
My Blog
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| | | | | | | | Re: Better Business Bureau I presented a good case, lots of documentation, actual emails from DirecTV, etc. The problem is that the BBB doesn't seem to be able to actually enforce anything and since DirecTV wasn't even a member, using the BBB was of no use. | |
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| | | | | | emptywigHuh? What?Premium
join:2002-08-05
Pasadena, TX | I'm sure that somewhere in their contract is a line that states something like they (Hughes) reserve the right to change their service at any time for whatever reason, speeds are not guaranteed, etc.
I doubt any of the actions mentioned will have any affect.
The idea that Hughes will fall all over themselves because you call the BBB is laughable. Truly. When you are the only game in town, you don't care if you have bad PR or look foolish. BBBs can do some good with a local company, but a national (international) company wouldn't even bother dealing with them.
Sad but true.
wig
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Sometimes a paradox is just a paradox | |
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| | | | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: Better Business Bureau Contract law overides any contracts, for example, why do hitmen goto jail? The liability according to the contract is on the person who hired them. | |
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| | | |  QumahlinNever Enough TimePremium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state | Re: lol The BBB has no actual power whatsoever. They can be helpful in maybe getting a company to contact you, but most companies just ignore them if they've already ignored you yourself complaining.
Look at how many large companies have F ratings on the BBB site
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Forum Posts:7500 | |
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| KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | some WoW patches could blow this out. | |
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 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Chime In? You'll almost NEVER get a real lawyer to chime in here on any subject. If they do, they aren't a very good lawyer.
Even one of my best friends who is a pretty prominent lawyer around the US makes me sign things when I ask him for advice. 
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Oh I'm so creative and all my programs are so easy to use ... | |
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| en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Chime In? only the ambulance chasers would show up here | |
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 RickPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT | What the guy should do.. is to simply cancel the service.
Instead of going into a five hour back and forth discussion with them I would have put it in writing, highlighted the part of the contract that gave him that right..and sent it to them.
Following his long spiel, here's what the contract apparently says..
"In the event that HNS modifies this Agreement, the Service or related pricing or billing terms, you may immediately terminate your account and this Agreement. Subject to your payment of the termination charges herein described, you may also do so at any other time and for any reason on written notice to HNS."
They modified the agreement by now instituting new downloading requirements and so, according to those previously agreed on terms, he gets to cancel at no cost.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! | |
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|  funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | Re: What the guy should do.. It doesn't get much clearer than that!
The subscriber should also make sure that he follows the contract's steps as to how to cancel -- e.g. in writing? is a phone call sufficient? | |
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| | Glad I stuck with Wildblue After my Wildblue contract ended, I was thinking about switching to Hughesnet cause of the better pings. But I would rather have poor ping times than a crappy unusable FAP. I have a lot of friends on YouTube who post about 10-20 videos a day. I have never been FAPed on Wildblue for viewing a lot of YouTube vids. Hughesnet FAP would pull me over the edge in no time.
I hope Sprint comes into my area soon so I can never have to touch a Satellite internet service again. | |
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| | LOL WOW they even say on their website they have increased the bandwidth limit. And yet people hate cable companies... | |
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 BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | WildBlue isn't much better Sure their cap is a rolling 30 one. And their cap is higher but not by much. Their highest tier 1.5 meg has a cap of 17000 MB a month. That's still a measly 16.6 GB a month. Until sat elite companies decide to act like the big boys and spend some actual money on improvements they'll continue to suck. Verizon and AT&T each spend over $1 billion a year on FiOS/FTTH. Wild Blue/HughesNet could each launch at least 4 satellites a year for that amount of money. That would be enough to handle any capacity issues. | |
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| | | Re: WildBlue isn't much better the problem is probably not launching a Sat. but more likely having an available geostationary orbit to put it in....and deciding if that orbit is worth using for internet VS. some other application that could make more money | |
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| | | | Re: WildBlue isn't much better Far easier to work witha rolling 30 day contract than a stupid 24 hour one. As mentioned any significant download could end up in being throttled.
This is much the same as what Virgin are bringing in for their UK customers on cable, but it is only for peak times and a shorter period.
If you want to download 16Gb over a month, or 16Gb in a day thats your call, not having to spread it out. | |
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 ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
2 edits | As bad a old AOL as a provider was, AOL+ DPC was excellent I had AOL Plus dial return satellite via DirecPC in 2001 and despite it being AOL it was very fast for it's day. Having gotten a very good installer I got a rock solid 3Mb with concurrent connections and unlike DirecPC's own service, AOL Plus DPC didn't have a fair access policy (at least that was enforced). It was also cheaply priced at around $45 ($24.95 for AOL plus $19.99 for AOL Plus Satellite at a time when typical cable HSI was $29.99). And I got those speed off Satmex 5 night or day. I'd fire up Newsbin Pro and beat that satellite like a step child downloading PS images and it never skipped a beat. To this day I still have the dish up and the modem in my closet.
How times change. | |
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| | Meh Hearing all these companies setting unreasonably low download caps makes me happy to be with Cox. | |
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| ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Re: Meh No kidding...suddenly a rarely enforced 40GB monthly cap looks like a gift. | |
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| | | | Re: Meh I haven't heard any enforcement of this policy by Cox myself. I've had times before & after the policy was announced that I've gone over 500GB down in a month, and Cox didn't say a thing. | |
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| | |  dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | Re: Meh "Before April 18, HughesNET customers on the Professional tier could download up to 350MB in a four hour period. They've since been restricted to 375MB over a 24 hour period, after which their connections are throttled to marginally usable status for 24 hours (this used to be 12)"
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This sound akin to users on cable loaded nodes. its cheaper to cap than to beef up your network.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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| | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | I had Cox@Home from 1996-mid 2001 and got 2 letters during that time. But I haven't seen anyone get a letter from Cox since they took over their own service. I also have friends with Cox-OC who are over their caps every month and never hear anything from Cox. | |
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| | Starbands policy Is a 1GB per rolling 7 day average on the $49 per month plan and 3.5GB per rolling 7 day average on the top tier $129 plan (soon to be reduced to $99).
exceed it and you get throttled to dial up speeds until you reach an exit average of 650MB per 7 day rolling average for the $49 plan or an exit average of 2.24GB per 7 day rolling average.
Each day at midnight your average for the past 7 days is calculated.
Seems like a good compromise between HN and WB and it lets you download large files, updates etc.
On WB if you use yours up in a week or two you are screwed the rest of the month | |
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| Reviews:
 ·WildBlue
| Re: Starbands policy said by bajadudes :
Is a 1GB per rolling 7 day average on the $49 per month plan and 3.5GB per rolling 7 day average on the top tier $129 plan (soon to be reduced to $99).
exceed it and you get throttled to dial up speeds until you reach an exit average of 650MB per 7 day rolling average for the $49 plan or an exit average of 2.24GB per 7 day rolling average.
Each day at midnight your average for the past 7 days is calculated.
Seems like a good compromise between HN and WB and it lets you download large files, updates etc.
On WB if you use yours up in a week or two you are screwed the rest of the month
How is the speeds and latency on Starband?
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Wildblue Pro Pack / Beam 40 / Laredo NOC / Windows MCE SP2 | |
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| | | | Re: Starbands policy the $49 plan is advertised as 128Kbps up and 512Kbps down, realistically you will see anywhere from 70 Kbps up to 120Kbps up and 250 to 500Kbps down on average. some times you will see higher on the download but you can't count on it
the $129 plan is advertised as 256Kbps up X 1Mb down, realistically you see about 150 to 250Kbps up and 750 to 1.2 MB down on average.
ping times are mostly around 800 millisec but there is a bit of jitter with times going up as much as 2.5 sec about 10 to 15 % of the time
slightly better on the ping times with the 129 plan | |
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| BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | said by bajadudes :
Is a 1GB per rolling 7 day average on the $49 per month plan and 3.5GB per rolling 7 day average on the top tier $129 plan (soon to be reduced to $99). 1 GB every 7 days is only 4 GB a month. That sucks worse than HughesNet.
The benefit of broadband is faster downloads but if you download stuff you hit the cap quickly and thus are throttled to dial-up speed anyways. It seems dial-up is better since it's cheaper. Small files that you download you could easily do over dial-up anyways. If my only choices were dial-up or satelite I'd just stay with dial-up. | |
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| | | | Re: Starbands policy On HN you effectively get 200MB per day for $59 per month on the home plan or 1.4GB per 7 days. On *B you get 1GB for the $49 per month plan.
The difference is that with *B you can at least download files larger than 200MB without hitting the Fap wall and to a lot of folks that is a big difference plus it's $10 bucks cheaper.
If you never download more than 200MB in a day then yes HN may be a better option,,,at least theoretically if you don't mind also talking to TS in Pakistan when you do have issues.....LOL
To those that would say dial up is better than sat they obviously do not live in rural areas where the copper delivers 19Kbps at best and there are frequent dropouts.
Lucky are dial up customers seeing 50Kbps on a consistent basis and that don't have to log in every 3-4 hours because the ISP dropped them. | |
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| | I canceled my service I canceled my service 2+ years ago due to the dl caps and their upgrade of equipment which I was going to have to pay $300 for. I had just finished paying for the original outrageous equipment and was constantly complaining to them about their lack of ethernet connectivity so I could connect my 3 PCs easier. So the DL limit is only 1 of the issues I had with them. Never again will I do business with this POS company. | |
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| | | Re: I canceled my service well you probably bailed right about when it went all ethernet since it has been ethernet only for years now. new equipment is $299 and they are the only company that will let you self install if you take the free online course and tests. you can connect any router directly to the new Nova modem and all the software is internal to the modem. Nothing on the PC anymore. | |
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| | Reminds Me of Adelphia 1-way Cable. That's about all the bandwidth Adelphia could deliver in one day with dial-up upstream.
Sorry for you satellite folks.  | |
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 Vtbluesif you can't get out of it, get in to itPremium
join:2006-05-29
Brookfield, VT | Hughes covered themselves pretty well Us hughesNet users pretty much signed a contract which absolves them of any accountability for their actions and left us the users with no rights at all, but it's the way most contracts are written now. I don't like it one bit but try and get service by writing your own clauses to protect yourself and see how far that goes.
copied from Hughes contract......
2.2. MODIFICATION OF THE SERVICE.
HNS may discontinue, add to or revise any or all aspects of the Service in HNS’ sole discretion, with or without notice, including without limitation access to support services, publications and any other products or services ancillary to the Service. For purposes of illustration and not limitation, HNS may: (a) establish and enforce limitations concerning use of the Service, e.g., the maximum number and/or size of email messages that may be sent from or received by an account on the Service, and the maximum amount of bandwidth that may be used by a single user or a single account; (b) take any action that HNS deems appropriate to prevent and/or delete bulk email; (c) delete old email messages from any account; (d) quarantine or delete messages or content suspected of containing viruses or other malware; (e) refuse to process email or instant messages that fit criteria defined by us; or (f) modify any user setting. In the event that HNS makes any changes to the Service or its availability, HNS may, but is not required to, notify you.
2.3. TERMINATION BY SUBSCRIBER.
In the event that HNS modifies this Agreement, the Service or related pricing or billing terms, you may immediately terminate your account and this Agreement. Subject to your payment of the termination charges herein described, you may also do so at any other time and for any reason on written notice to HNS. You must terminate this Agreement in accordance with the terms and conditions specified herein; failure to do so may delay or prevent us from knowing that termination was intended. Failure to terminate in accordance with this Agreement may result in your continued liability for all fees and charges associated with your Service account until such time as the Agreement has been properly terminated or HNS has acknowledged such termination in writing. In the event you cancel your subscription to the Service prior to the expiration of the minimum commitment period specified for your applicable service plan, you may be subject to a termination fee of up to $300. The exact amount of termination charges which will apply is a function of when your account is terminated and the type of Service Plan you are on. Information on early service termination charges can be found at legal.HughesNet.com, HughesNet Terms and Conditions.
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HughesNet/DW 6000/Home Plan/.74 dish/Galaxy 16 (099 °W)1110.0 MHz/Win XP Home SP2/ P4 2.26 Gig 1 Gig of Ram
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| KUppianoKarl Uppiano
join:2003-02-02
Ferndale, WA | Re: Hughes covered themselves pretty well said by Vtblues:Us hughesNet users pretty much signed a contract which absolves them of any accountability for their actions and left us the users with no rights at all, but it's the way most contracts are written now. I don't like it one bit but try and get service by writing your own clauses to protect yourself and see how far that goes. copied from Hughes contract...... (snip) Contracts are a mutual agreement. Hughes has something you want (service), and you have something they want (money). Depending on the relative availability of each, one party or the other gets to call the shots. It's all about supply and demand. If there were other alternatives in your area, you would have more choices and more leverage.
I think Hughes could handle QOS a little more fluidly, but there are probably technical issues that I am not aware of. Satellite bandwidth is more expensive than terrestrial connections, so some mechanism to share the load fairly is a necessity. Perhaps Hughes has oversold their bandwidth to the point that no one receives acceptable QOS anymore. If that is the case, then their subscribers will begin to dwindle, so perhaps the problem will become self-limiting. | |
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| | Been there, dunn that--NEVER AGAIN I have so much useless junk laying around from my sattellite days. I will say, I go back a ways with hose net, but will never move to a bumfuk area again without knowing broadband options first. The best so called broadband I tryed first, was the early direcpc days of a piggy back phoneline for up an the dish just for download.
But I couldent be happy with that, so I wasted money two more times for so-called 2-way systems that were really just more junk. I had just fell for those cute little blue lights, when El-crappia had just upgradded the cable system. Was worried about walkin because those cute little bluelights were a 2 year commitment. Well lets just say I walked and was never charged any termination fee. I am now part of the RR program thanks to corportate buyout and the evil elcrapia-CEO. I really want to thank that dufus for embezeling that money to build his mansion and neglecting to build out the rual cable-systems. It gave me time to explore all the ins and outs of bouncing a signal 23k miles. Which is a joke for average joe. The need to knows and goverment do have access to real connections from sattellites that still suck too. Overselling sattelite capacity has been a big buzz, and the WAR/millitary usuage is probally a bigger burdin on that bird than anybody realizes.
Whats wrong with the economic system.... | |
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 jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
 ·voip.ms
| :rolleyes: We don't care how strapped you are for capacity, broadband users should never be worried about whether they'll be able to download the next Windows service pack or not.. That's a bit over-dramatic, don't you think? MS has never released a service pack that's 375 MB in size, in fact that's enough to do a live patch of 3 PCs for SP1 or SP2 on XP.
Now we're howling, "Won't somebody think of the service pack downloads???"  | |
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 tmpchaosRequiescat in pacePremium,Mod
join:2000-04-28
Hoboken, NJ |  (topic offline) Well, I did suggest national FTTH project, but w
This entire topic was removed, either temporarily, or permanently.
stated reason was: Trollfest | |
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