  swhx7Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| I want my IPv6 ISPs for end-users, particularly residential, may start NAT-ing to delay conversion to IPv6 (read: avoid short-term costs). They may even charge for giving routable IPv4 addresses on DHCP! Anyone who likes to receive connections with a port forwarding setup would pay or be out of luck.
But I can be ready for IPv6 by slapping a new firmware on my old router and turning on support in my OS. Those with recent routers don't even have to do that much.
I would like for my ISP to get on board already, but there is nothing about it on their website. | |
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 |  tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
 ·T-Mobile US
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: I want my IPv6 This is already the standard for cellular data, and some fixed wireless ISPs. I think it's inevitable that ISPs will use NAT for most of their custmers (especially since it helps them block home servers), and only give routable addresses to their business customers.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| | | Ah... IPv6
One address per device. No more hiding behind your ISPs sorry assed NAT router.
Ya gotta love the techno-children. | |
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 fegulPremium
join:2004-08-23
united state | DNS better be flawless... The only reason I'm hesitant is that I'm old school and like being able to remember some IPv4 addresses as well as domain names just in case. If DNS goes down in an IPv6 environment...uh-oh.
--
Fegul.com | |
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| Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: DNS better be flawless... said by fegul:The only reason I'm hesitant is that I'm old school and like being able to remember some IPv4 addresses as well as domain names just in case. If DNS goes down in an IPv6 environment...uh-oh. You remember the actual ip address? Wow...just wow. (I'm actually impressed) | |
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| | Reviews:
·Charter
| Re: DNS better be flawless... said by DataRiker:said by fegul:The only reason I'm hesitant is that I'm old school and like being able to remember some IPv4 addresses as well as domain names just in case. If DNS goes down in an IPv6 environment...uh-oh. You remember the actual ip address? Wow...just wow. (I'm actually impressed) I do this with my favorite sites. I actually have them saved in my favorite places at ip addresses so i can skip the dns lookup. this is as a just in case my ISPs dns servers dont work, and my secondary openDNS doesnt work either(rare). It is also faster, because you do skip that dns lookup time, which results in a faster loading page. | |
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| | | amungusPremium
join:2004-11-26
America Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: DNS better be flawless... Awesome, truly old school 
Anyway, fegul makes a good point - if DNS craps out, and all you have is IPv6 everywhere, you'd better hope there is SOME documentation somewhere, concerning ANY of it! | |
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| | | | | said by Chubbysumo:said by DataRiker:said by fegul:The only reason I'm hesitant is that I'm old school and like being able to remember some IPv4 addresses as well as domain names just in case. If DNS goes down in an IPv6 environment...uh-oh. You remember the actual ip address? Wow...just wow. (I'm actually impressed) I do this with my favorite sites. I actually have them saved in my favorite places at ip addresses so i can skip the dns lookup. this is as a just in case my ISPs dns servers dont work, and my secondary openDNS doesnt work either(rare). It is also faster, because you do skip that dns lookup time, which results in a faster loading page. This is very bad practice. Here is why:
Many servers serve many domain names. Which, the web server could care less about 12.34.56.78, the webserver reads the hostname that gets sent in the HTTP request (RFC 2616). So, if you goto »12.34.56.78 you will probably get a 404 or "under construction" page. Although, it appears you don't run into that problem, it is bad practice regardless.
By saying that the reason why you navigate straight to the IP because you don't trust your ISPs DNS server's, is a fallacious statement. If you were really that concerned, then you should setup your own recursive DNS server on your local network. A recursive DNS server should never touch your ISP's, unless your ISP is hijacking DNS requests. DNS plays a bigger role in the internet than just resolving A records. | |
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| | | | amungusPremium
join:2004-11-26
America Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: DNS better be flawless... "Many servers serve many domain names."
VERY good point!
For some things, however, it still can't hurt to 'know' a few that are direct... it seems like that's what Chubbysumo might've been talking about, but it still doesn't negate your most astute point(s). | |
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| | | | | tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | Re: DNS better be flawless... not to mention that locking into an ip address can give you outdated information on frequently updated websites if there is a server farm, or can simply be down while going to the domain name wouldn't give you that issue. | |
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| | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | HTTPS/SSL REQUIRES a unique IP for each website. Host tag is useless. | |
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| | | | | MOS_STPPremium
join:2007-02-08
New York, NY | Re: DNS better be flawless... It is possible to have multiple SSL sites on the same IP with wildcard SSL certs. | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: DNS better be flawless... said by MOS_STP:It is possible to have multiple SSL sites on the same IP with wildcard SSL certs. Or SNI, as I mention in my post: »Re: DNS better be flawless... | |
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| | | | | | | said by patcat88:HTTPS/SSL REQUIRES a unique IP for each website. Host tag is useless. This is an incorrect assumption. I actually just did a paper/talk on SSL/TLS. You can use the same IP for multiple SSL certificates, however, the server and browser must support SNI (RFC 4366). More info here | |
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| | | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: DNS better be flawless... Most Windows XP browsers dont yet, who knows if MS will backport SNI ever. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Re: DNS better be flawless... said by patcat88:Most Windows XP browsers dont yet, who knows if MS will backport SNI ever. I am not sure of that, according to »www.google.com/support/forum/p/C···4e&hl=en it does work in Firefox in XP but not Chrome. That post was made in early 2009 so I would imagine that the "bug" was fixed as it seemed to affect all browsers using webkit. Of course, as the facts stand now, the majority of browsers don't support it in XP, like you said.
Which, of course, you should know why that is. But, I have an alternative that I will be making available. | |
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| | | | | | said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:This is very bad practice. Here is why: Many servers serve many domain names. Which, the web server could care less about 12.34.56.78, the webserver reads the hostname that gets sent in the HTTP request (RFC 2616). So, if you goto » 12.34.56.78 you will probably get a 404 or "under construction" page. Although, it appears you don't run into that problem, it is bad practice regardless. By saying that the reason why you navigate straight to the IP because you don't trust your ISPs DNS server's, is a fallacious statement. If you were really that concerned, then you should setup your own recursive DNS server on your local network. A recursive DNS server should never touch your ISP's, unless your ISP is hijacking DNS requests. DNS plays a bigger role in the internet than just resolving A records. bingo  my host is like this, if you go to the ip associated with my website all youl find is
"error id: "bad_httpd_conf"" | |
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| | | | axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
| If he's got a site he likes enough to save the IP address for, it's probably a popular enough website that shared hosting isn't going to cut it.
Of course, if it's really popular then a single IP address isn't going to cut it either, and they might change the DNS to point to a different IP and re-purpose the other one, or have it out of date or something.
But he's not hurting anyone or being hurt by using an IP address | |
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| | | quatrixPremium
join:2005-02-11
Davie, FL
kudos:2 | said by Chubbysumo:It is also faster, because you do skip that dns lookup time, which results in a faster loading page. Yeah, I'm sure you really notice those few milliseconds. | |
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| | | |  heat84Bit Torrent Apologist
join:2004-03-11
Fort Lauderdale, FL | Re: DNS better be flawless... said by quatrix:said by Chubbysumo:It is also faster, because you do skip that dns lookup time, which results in a faster loading page. Yeah, I'm sure you really notice those few milliseconds. Beat me to it.
--
Bit Torrent is my DVR. | |
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| | | |  exocet_cmBuckle up, it's the lawPremium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:2 | Re: DNS better be flawless... said by Noah Vail:I remember quite a few IP addresses. They're the static IP addys of Terminal, Virtual or other servers I manage remotely. Having to CName all those would be a hassle, every time there was a change. NV I remember the IP's of all the systems I need to RDP/VPN into... I dunno, it just sticks in my head.
--
"I have measured out my life with coffee spoons..." - T.S Eliot
"I have often regretted my speech, never my silence." - Publilius Syrus
Ma blog: »www.johndball.com | |
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| | |  sitrix
join:2002-04-15
Tacoma, WA | I would just recommend memorizing a huge list of DNS servers instead. | |
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| | | | its not that hard to remeber address.
I remember all my work call manager serves and ipcc severs. Along with about 5 websites and their public ip address's | |
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| | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: DNS better be flawless... If you can remember phone numbers, you can remember IP4s. Then again, most people are helpless sheep if they loose their cellphone because they are too lazy to remember the numbers in the cellphone's phone book. All high importance numbers I always dial from memory (practice makes perfect), they aren't listed in my cellphone (except in history). Its amazing some people don't even know their own phone's number or their home's landline number. They give the phone to the acquaintance and say "call yourself", the acquaintance then saves the number in their phonebook, never to see the number again. Amazing. If your phone was lost/broken/out of battery, and you had a payphone infront of you, you couldn't use it!!!!! | |
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| | | | | | Re: DNS better be flawless... I know the ip4s for each of my client sites, but I couldn't reach 2/3rds of my family without speed dial! | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Yes. 4.2.2.* for DNS. I know static public IPs at my university. I remember private IPs on my LAN (DNS resolution in DDWRT for local dns names is flaky). I used to have static IPs on my DSL, remembered those
On my DSL (now cable) I later switched to dynamic, use dyndns service, not worth the extra money dyndns is reliable enough, and I don't use a protocol whose hardware required hard coded IPs (the hardware doesn't speak DNS) anymore. | |
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| | |
|  PToN
join:2001-10-04
Houston, TX | Agreed, i was just thinking that... IPv6 is 100% reliant on DNS from a consumer stand point, if not all stand points...
It's nearly impossible to remember IPv6 addresses. | |
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| | tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: DNS better be flawless... for a typical consumer, so is an ipv4 address.
Just a test - off the top of your head, what's google's IP address? Exactly.
Ask 20 of your friends. Let me know what the results are.
Most people don't remember the ip addresses for every website they need. Implying that ipv6 is a bad choice because you can't remember particular addresses is absolutely meaningless to 95% of web users who don't remember IP addresses anyways.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| | | | | Re: DNS better be flawless... Good luck talking grandma thorough pinging their gateway. It's hard enough getting them to type out an IP address. | |
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| | | | tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: DNS better be flawless... said by battleop:Good luck talking grandma thorough pinging their gateway. It's hard enough getting them to type out an IP address. grandma doesn't even know how to get to start->run in windows. I don't think ipv6 matters.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| | | | | | | Re: DNS better be flawless... I take it you have never done any support work. | |
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| | | | | | tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: DNS better be flawless... said by battleop:I take it you have never done any support work. 
Actually, I was the only support person for a little mom-n-pop computer shop in KC for about a year. In-home work for grandmas, and on-site work for small businesses. Computer repairs/setups. Network repairs/setups.
I guarantee, if a grandma called in and said that her "internet is broke", I would spend 10 minutes just explaining to her how to bring up the command prompt. Start. Run. cmd. enter.
And if she COULD figure it out, what's the difference between telling her to go to 192.168.1.1 or fc00:1::1/64?
It's all gibberish to her anyways.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| | | | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: DNS better be flawless... That slash is alot more trouble than just periods. | |
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| | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | said by tiger72:for a typical consumer, so is an ipv4 address. Just a test - off the top of your head, what's google's IP address? Exactly. Ask 20 of your friends. Let me know what the results are. ;; QUESTION SECTION:
;google.com. IN A
;; ANSWER SECTION:
google.com. 183 IN A 72.14.204.103
google.com. 183 IN A 72.14.204.104
google.com. 183 IN A 72.14.204.147
google.com. 183 IN A 72.14.204.99
too many to remember | |
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| | | | Another step that becomes a pain in the ass. Every time you throw something up on the network you have to have a DNS entry created. | |
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| MOS_STPPremium
join:2007-02-08
New York, NY Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
| said by fegul:I'm old school and like being able to remember some IPv4 addresses Not a good idea if the domain uses DNS-based load balancing or failover. E.g. yahoo.com changes the IP address every so often - each time the TTL expires in your local cache you go out and make a DNS query and probably get back a different IP. | |
|
 N3OGHCertified GLG-20Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Psssst, hey buddy... Wanna buy and IP address?
Never been fired, and only dropped once.
Just like an ARVN rifle....
--
Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power | |
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|  W8ASATieng gi vay?
join:2000-07-31
Dayton, OH | Re: Psssst, hey buddy... Just like an ARVN rifle....
haha, some of us get it.
--
Microwave and RF Components at www.ohiomicrowave.com | |
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2 edits | Wasteful If IANA would revoke the /8 subnets of HP, Ford, Apple, Eli Lily, etc., there would be plenty if IPv4 addresses to go around. There's no reason these companies need an entire /8 subnet of publicly addressable IPs.
»www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ | |
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See 20 replies to this post |
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Reviews:
 ·voip.ms
| This is business I see two problems with this:
1) Don't forget that IPv6 is adding more overhead. If your ISP has a bandwidth cap that means you get less payload. First they have ~15% PPPoE overhead, then they count 1Gig as 1000Megs (not 1024), and now this IPv6 that will steal even more from 60GB/month pool. What the hell is going on???
2) Regarding router firmwares - it's good if you have a Linux/BSD router, where you just download a newer version. If you have a crappy D-Link/SMC router - no firmware updates for that. They just want you to toss it and buy a new one. Similar to how people upgraded from Win98 to WinME just to avoid Y2K problem, which was stupid to begin with. But hey, this is business. | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
|
 maartenaElmoPremium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:1 | For sale! 10.x.x.x - huge range.
Routing not guaranteed. | |
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| | | Re: For sale! said by maartena:10.x.x.x - huge range. Routing not guaranteed. Sadly ... I can see someone on craigslist trying this stunt.
anyone who bids on it, should be kicked off the Internet, for good! | |
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|  caffeinatorComing soon to a cup near you..Premium
join:2005-01-16
WA, USA
kudos:2 | Oh nooz, how'd you get teh IP address for my printer?
Heheh... | |
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| |  NickDPremium
join:2000-11-17
Princeton Junction, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: For sale! said by caffeinator:Oh nooz, how'd you get teh IP address for my printer? Heheh... At my university, every device has a public IP, including the printers.
»rsclp1.rutgers.edu/ is an example of a printer with a public IP. | |
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 tekmunkiTekmunkiPremium
join:2001-12-06
Lake City, FL
1 edit | meh You can short notation v6, it's not 'that' bad. The problem isn't going to be the mom and pop shops converting to IPv6, that will happen naturally as IPv4 is phased our in the next gen of devices and OS and those devices that simply don't support it are already nearing end-of-life anyways. It's actually already natively in, and active in most OS's released in the last 5 years or so.
Example, if you told me I had to use IPv6 on my net connected interfaces- I wouldn't have any issues making a changeover; you can still use IPv4 internally- and; it's not really anything more than a small hassle to convert it all to IPv6 internally. (Granted, I'm working with fairly recently renovated networks)
I can see a mass push for IPv6 when that last unreserved IP address is given out; necessity is the mother of invention.
--
TekMunki
"There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't."
www.tekmunki.com | |
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| | DNS Down? Privacy? All I need to remember is 8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4, 4.2.2.1, 4.2.2.2, 4.2.2.3, 4.2.2.4. But when IPv6 comes around that won't be handy anymore.
However even with IPv6 you can still MAC spoof and you can change the address. Due to the nature of IPv6 spoofing will reach a new level because you won't have to worry about accidentally copying someone's MAC that is on the network (the odds of you generating the same mac address are LOW). If you really want privacy you will find a way to keep it. | |
|
approval from:
aefstoggaflm 
| Random thoughts I remember lots of my IPv6 addresses - the first 64 bits is easy, I type it in all the time - servers I manually assign a small one field interface identifier, e.g. 2001:df8:5403:3000::d
However, using a numeric IP for web surfing is not very effective for not being dependent on DNS - with ads and whatnot, each page generates 10-50 DNS queries! You should just deploy a local caching server (not difficult).
IPv6 is really easy to migrate to - my home has been fully dual stack for about a year, my office for 5 years.
NAT allows your ISP to control you (no servers, etc) - go to IPv6 and get all the "real" addresses you can eat! Great for VoIP, MMORPGs, IPsec VPN, Mobile IP, etc. NAT causes major problems with those and more. ISPs are now going to ISP based Large Scale NAT - you will share a single real IPv4 address with maybe hundreds of other customers, and in most cases, you will have TWO layers of NAT. IPv4 IS DEAD. It's day is over. Get with it. Only losers and ISPs are trying to stay with IPv4. Resistance (to IPv6) is futile! | |
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