pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2009-Apr-3 8:40 am
Not Too Far FetchedPeople pay for their own gas to drive to work too. | |
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| jmn1207 Premium Member join:2000-07-19 Sterling, VA |
jmn1207
Premium Member
2009-Apr-3 8:59 am
Re: Not Too Far Fetchedsaid by pnh102:People pay for their own gas to drive to work too. As long as they are entitled to receive tax breaks for the money they spend on their internet connection, it makes sense. If I used my car for work (not to get to work), as many people in sales tend to do, I would be eligible for tax deductions on fuel purchased and mileage driven. It seems like work from home employees should have the same home office deductions that self-employed, small business owners enjoy. Now IBM is free to lay off most of their IT support team now that they can hand off the service calls to each employees' own internet service provider. | |
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| | Ben Premium Member join:2007-06-17 Fort Worth, TX |
Ben
Premium Member
2009-Apr-3 9:04 am
Re: Not Too Far Fetchedsaid by jmn1207:Now IBM is free to lay off most of their IT support team now that they can hand off the service calls to each employees' own internet service provider. I can see it now. Some employee will have a problem with their ISP. Said employee calls their ISP to complain, but it won't be fixed until Friday (or some day that's a few days into the future). Then the employee is less productive, and not because they wanted to be lazy either. | |
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| | | MineCoast Premium Member join:2004-10-06 Pensacola, FL |
Re: Not Too Far Fetchedsaid by Ben:said by jmn1207:Now IBM is free to lay off most of their IT support team now that they can hand off the service calls to each employees' own internet service provider. I can see it now. Some employee will have a problem with their ISP. Said employee calls their ISP to complain, but it won't be fixed until Friday (or some day that's a few days into the future). Then the employee is less productive, and not because they wanted to be lazy either. This is why you have a SOHO Connection. I have one and it's only about $20 more a month than regular broadband. I get a 4 hour response time from my ISP, better QOS, No Caps, etc. It's great. I work from home and every company I've worked for made me pay for my own broadband, computer, etc. I don't mind it as I am going to have broadband anyway regardless of where I work... and I have so many spare computers that it's not an issue throwing one together to use for work only. | |
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Re: Not Too Far FetchedThen the company should pay for the difference between a regular home plan and a SOHO plan. Here, that difference would be $25 per month.
I think it'd be a bad idea to kill internet payback entirely; might make people either more unproductive or make them come back to work. Which is much more costly than $25 per month to subsidize an internet connection. | |
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| | | | | BarneyBadAssBadasses Fight For Freedom Premium Member join:2004-05-07 00001 |
Re: Not Too Far FetchedThey will still pay for the phone so say fuck em'.
Use dialup. Then when they want need you to do something needing faster response times... they'll get the message | |
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Re: Not Too Far Fetchedsaid by BarneyBadAss:They will still pay for the phone so say fuck em'. Use dialup. Then when they want need you to do something needing faster response times... they'll get the message No, you will get the message "come in to the office or you're fired!" | |
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| | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD |
to jmn1207
said by jmn1207:As long as they are entitled to receive tax breaks for the money they spend on their internet connection, it makes sense. I would imagine that under existing law this is the case. Typically any purchase made with personal funds for work use that isn't compensated by work is tax deductible. | |
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| | | n2ubp join:2007-07-13 Middletown, NY |
n2ubp
Member
2009-Apr-3 9:56 am
Re: Not Too Far Fetched> Typically any purchase made with personal funds for work use that isn't compensated by work is tax deductible. I think you only get to deduct work expenses if they are more than two percent of your adjusted gross income. | |
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| | | | Scuba2 join:2004-01-13 Under da sea |
Scuba2
Member
2009-Apr-3 12:06 pm
Re: Not Too Far FetchedIt's the amount that is greater than 2% of your adjusted gross income and only if you itemized (schedule A ) your deductions ! | |
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| | | | | nitzan Premium Member join:2008-02-27 |
nitzan
Premium Member
2009-Apr-3 12:42 pm
Re: Not Too Far Fetchedsaid by Scuba2:It's the amount that is greater than 2% of your adjusted gross income and only if you itemized (schedule A ) your deductions ! Exactly. Which means it's NOT tax deductible for 99% of employees. Not to mention even if you get to deduct it - you still need to pay social security and medicare on the amount, and possibly state income tax. Your employer can just straight-off deduct it as a business expense without all the crap taxes. This is such a stupid decision. internet service reimbursement costs very little to the employer, and provides a real benefit (and satisfaction) to the worker. | |
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| | | | | | bubbha3 join:2004-03-20 Harrisburg, PA |
Re: Not Too Far FetchedAre you serious?!? 45k people on telecommute at $40 per month for their service is $1.8MIL PER MONTH... that's real money to me! You save on gas money and food by working from home... suck it up and pay your own connection! How many of those people piggyback on that company paid service when you know they would have high speed on their own if the company didn't pay for it or they actually worked at the office? | |
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| | | | | | | nitzan Premium Member join:2008-02-27 |
nitzan
Premium Member
2009-Apr-3 1:38 pm
Re: Not Too Far Fetchedsaid by bubbha3:Are you serious?!? 45k people on telecommute at $40 per month for their service is $1.8MIL PER MONTH... that's real money to me! You save on gas money and food by working from home... suck it up and pay your own connection! How many of those people piggyback on that company paid service when you know they would have high speed on their own if the company didn't pay for it or they actually worked at the office? Easy. Cut their salary by $40 - case solved. They still net a better result because $40 after taxes is more like $25. | |
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| | | | | | | jmn1207 Premium Member join:2000-07-19 Sterling, VA |
to bubbha3
said by bubbha3:Are you serious?!? 45k people on telecommute at $40 per month for their service is $1.8MIL PER MONTH... that's real money to me! You save on gas money and food by working from home... suck it up and pay your own connection! How many of those people piggyback on that company paid service when you know they would have high speed on their own if the company didn't pay for it or they actually worked at the office? I suppose IBM can just provide an office, phone, and computer for those employees that decide not to work from home anymore? If they need to move closer to the office to make the commute more manageable, will IBM help pay the cost to move? If they are going to change their work at home policy midstream, they need to provide some options. For IBM, it's just a quick way to make a buck and most employees won't make too much of a fuss about it. Most people want to keep their jobs, and working from home has many benefits that outweigh the lost compensation they once enjoyed. It's exactly like a company that decided to start charging it's employees for parking outside the office building. It would suck, it wouldn't be right, it might even get it's own news story, but just about everyone would simply pay the $2 each day to park. Just like nearly all of the IBM work at home employees will simply grin and bear it. | |
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Re: Not Too Far FetchedThe hospital that my wife worked at, until she retired, charged for parking in the hospital facility. | |
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| | | | | | | | | jmn1207 Premium Member join:2000-07-19 Sterling, VA |
jmn1207
Premium Member
2009-Apr-3 3:51 pm
Re: Not Too Far Fetchedsaid by Austinloop:The hospital that my wife worked at, until she retired, charged for parking in the hospital facility. Did she know about this before she decided to start working there, or did they start demanding money for parking one day, after allowing people to park for free for many years? | |
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Re: Not Too Far FetchedNot that it makes a difference, but pay from day 1. It was not really an option to park other than on property due to evening shifts (3 to 11 pm). At least that was the story for 28 years. | |
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| | | | | | | | | jmn1207 Premium Member join:2000-07-19 Sterling, VA |
jmn1207
Premium Member
2009-Apr-3 4:43 pm
Re: Not Too Far FetchedEvery scenario is different, it seems.
My company has an excellent work from home program, but we mention up front that you need your own computer that meets a certain specification, you have to use software compatible with our Citrix client, you need a broadband connection, and you need a working phone. And more details are provided for those interested. Anyone working from home has completely agreed to do so on our terms.
While it varies from one department to another, generally most employees have flexible routines, and can often work from home without any strife from management. Nobody expects to get kickbacks on our internet bill for time spent at home.
In this situation with IBM, it simply appears to be a money grab. Hopefully they will work with any employee that has an expensive business account with their ISP, and will continue to compensate these employees if necessary. It could be a a couple of hundred dollars depending on where the person lives and what type of connection they might require to be productive. | |
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Re: Not Too Far FetchedExactly. Unfortunately TIme Warner Cable's business packages (which will be required once residential packages are rendered useless by caps) are freakin' expensive compared to home packages. Or maybe the person has to switch to DSL so their internet doesn't slow down to a crawl due to overcrowded cable lines. So maybe theyhave to pay SpeakEasy $90 a month for a cute little 6/768 DSL connection... | |
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Home worker to bubbha3
Anon
2009-Apr-3 6:52 pm
to bubbha3
said by bubbha3:Are you serious?!? 45k people on telecommute at $40 per month for their service is $1.8MIL PER MONTH... that's real money to me! You save on gas money and food by working from home... suck it up and pay your own connection! How many of those people piggyback on that company paid service when you know they would have high speed on their own if the company didn't pay for it or they actually worked at the office? I work from home most of my time and in customers office the rest. If you've ever worked from home you'd realize that most, not all, work from home people end up working longer hours that those in tradional offices. My PRODUCTIVE hours average 12 hours a day since I'm not wasting the average one hour each direction to communte to the local office. (Which doesn't have enough space even if I wanted to go in!) I don't think it's too much to ask for them to cover my DSL @ $35/mo. especially since they have me using it for VoIP for my company line too. The cost of real estate, phone and network if I were to go to a company office would probably be at least $500/mo. on top of the lost productivity while I'm commuting. | |
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| | | | | | | reddog6102 Premium Member join:2006-02-04 united state |
to bubbha3
Arent they(company) saving money by not having to buy or lease office space ,pay light bill,be liable insurance wise for anything that happens on company property etc...by having the employee work from home or are they doing this out of the goodness of their hearts so poor employees dont have to leave home? Give me a break,these greedy people who run these companies are doing it because it already saves them millions!!!! This is just one more gerbel who came up with an idea to justify his pathetic existance. Blahahahah! | |
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| | | | | | | PhoenixDownFIOS is Awesome Premium Member join:2003-06-08 Fresh Meadows, NY |
to bubbha3
Real estate costs more than the broadband service per head count, its why more companies are looking at telecommuting as a viable option. | |
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| | joako Premium Member join:2000-09-07 /dev/null |
to jmn1207
said by jmn1207:said by pnh102:People pay for their own gas to drive to work too. As long as they are entitled to receive tax breaks for the money they spend on their internet connection, it makes sense. If I used my car for work (not to get to work), as many people in sales tend to do, I would be eligible for tax deductions on fuel purchased and mileage driven. It seems like work from home employees should have the same home office deductions that self-employed, small business owners enjoy. Now IBM is free to lay off most of their IT support team now that they can hand off the service calls to each employees' own internet service provider. Why? You use your car to "get to work" and that is not deductible. You use your internet connection to "get to your work" I don't feel it should be, either. | |
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| | | jmn1207 Premium Member join:2000-07-19 Sterling, VA |
jmn1207
Premium Member
2009-Apr-3 1:23 pm
Re: Not Too Far FetchedI don't have to take my car to work. It just happens to be the most practical for most people. If my job required me to drive a great number of miles, you can bet that I would expect to be compensated by my employer. Likewise, if my job requires that I have an internet connection and a computer, I expect my employer to compensate me. I get paid for travel expenses when I drive someplace for a work-related function.
Do you have a computer in your office? Did you have to bring your own? I have lots of computer parts in my basement, perhaps I should build a work computer and bring it into my office?
At the very least, it seems like a company such as IBM could look into getting group rates for business class service for the work at home employees. If you are specifically hired to work at home and the rules are specifically outlined before you are hired, I have no problem with that at all. However, if you have been working at home for several years, it does not seem fair to force their employers to cover these expenses. Without any white collar unions, there are no real alternative other than capitulating or quitting. | |
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| | reddog6102 Premium Member join:2006-02-04 united state |
to jmn1207
I can see the employee having computer or software issues and call their ISP and demand a repair ticket.Said ISP rolls to their house and determines a PC issue only and bills said employee for service call!With no IT support they (company) is screwed!!! Blahahaha | |
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to pnh102
I guess this was inevitable. When Broadband was rare and expensive made sense for companies to subsidize it. I assume almost all these folks will opt for broadband regardless of whether or not company pays for it. As pnh102 posted commuting cost is not reimbursed therefor it is reasonable to argue neither should broadband. Sadly another perk bites the dust but not surprised. /tom | |
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Re: Not Too Far Fetchedsaid by tschmidt:I guess this was inevitable. When Broadband was rare and expensive made sense for companies to subsidize it. I assume almost all these folks will opt for broadband regardless of whether or not company pays for it. As pnh102 posted commuting cost is not reimbursed therefor it is reasonable to argue neither should broadband. Sadly another perk bites the dust but not surprised. /tom Depending on available ISPs and bandwidth needs, these people may be paying for more expensive business connections with faster upload speeds. If that is the case, it doesn't make any sense for IBM not to pay for them. Or at the very least pay the part above the cost of the residential service. But if the line it tax deductible in some way, this is probably just a ploy to make the government pay for part of it. | |
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to pnh102
My monthly bandwidth cost (10 meg) is definitely less than what I spend in gas. Makes sense to expect them to provide their own way to get to work. I sure as heck wouldn't complain if the company I worked for decided to let me work from home but wanted me to provide the PC and bandwidth. | |
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| TamaraBQuestion The Current Paradigm Premium Member join:2000-11-08 Da Bronx ·Verizon FiOS Ubiquiti NSM5 Synology RT2600ac Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)
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to pnh102
said by pnh102:People pay for their own gas to drive to work too. Yes. But companies pay for physical space for resident employees as well. No cubical, (at $50/Sq Foot/month they save a bundle) no desk, no phone, no office supplies, no trash to empty etc... makes a telecommuter a much cheaper employee, and a damn good deal for IBM. Why is it so unthinkable that the employee share in some of this saving? Why such a biased emphasis on IBM, and none on the workers who make IBM profitable? I find this attitude disturbing, especially coming from a worker. Bob | |
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| | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
1 recommendation |
pnh102
Premium Member
2009-Apr-3 2:56 pm
Re: Not Too Far Fetchedsaid by TamaraB:I find this attitude disturbing, especially coming from a worker. Heh. See I choose not to telecommute for the most obvious reason. If I can do my job 5 days a week from outside of the office, then that means someone in a foreign country making 10 cents an hour can also do my job 5 days a week from outside of the office. Beyond that basic reason, I think that when most managers do not physically see you for extended periods of time... and I mean see you as be in the same room with you, not just talk to you on the phone or online, they instinctively think you are doing nothing, and are thus no longer needed at the company. | |
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| | | jmn1207 Premium Member join:2000-07-19 Sterling, VA |
jmn1207
Premium Member
2009-Apr-3 3:06 pm
Re: Not Too Far Fetchedsaid by pnh102:Beyond that basic reason, I think that when most managers do not physically see you for extended periods of time... and I mean see you as be in the same room with you, not just talk to you on the phone or online, they instinctively think you are doing nothing, and are thus no longer needed at the company. A previous employer of mine had a surprise round of layoffs and nearly every single person that was let go was remotely managed. Some were work at home, others were simply working at a satellite office with many other employees, but their direct manager was located at a different location. So, I completely agree with this point. | |
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to pnh102
said by pnh102: I think that when most managers do not physically see you for extended periods of time... and I mean see you as be in the same room with you, I agree, full time telecommuting can be isolating. I also found out doing consulting that "water cooler" breaks far from being a distraction and interruption were actually a positive source of inspiration and problem solving. Telecommuting does not have to be every day. Working from home a few days a weeks is often a very good trade off for both employee and employer. /tom | |
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Not too unreasonableI would love to pay $45 a month to not have to commute. I would also come out ahead by saving money on gas. | |
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Cake and eat it too?Let's argue the fact that a teleworker is "entitled" to "communications" compensation...or isn't.
You get to work at home. Your time is compensated. How you get to work, is not. (I am not paid "keyhole to keyhole" to drive to work; nor am I paid for my use of the car to get to work and leave. I can be reimbursed for mileage if I use my personal vehicle for business use).
Then there is the tax penalty (some states/cities will penalize you for tax in telecommuting...you live in their tax area, and you work in another...scary!). | |
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RayW Premium Member join:2001-09-01 Layton, UT |
RayW
Premium Member
2009-Apr-3 8:54 am
Trade offsStill cheaper than driving in, but on the other hand, if even a fraction of those folks decide to say "Up yours" and go into work, that savings will be wiped out in a hurry due to overhead costs. | |
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What is next field workers forced to pay for mobile broadbanWhat is next field workers forced to pay for mobile broadband?
so they can pay $60 or more a mouth to be able to do there job?
Forced to pay for the software / laptop that is needed for your job? If they forced your to buy laptop that is needed for your job then you should be able to use it as your system on the off time and install what you want on it.
Full priced for a locked down system they can only do your job what a joke?
Same thing for mobile broadband. | |
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Not Unique to IBMI telecommute part-time for a pharmaceutical company and pay my own broadband. Grateful for the privilege and don't mind using my home broadband connection for work while at home. | |
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Most places make you pay for your ownThere was only one place I worked where they paid for broadband. I'll give you a hint - the public is very angry at them right now. | |
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I would gladly pay $200 per month to work from home!I would gladly pay $300 per month to work from home! Maybe even more.
I would save about $120 in gas per month. I would save about 30 hours of driving per month. | |
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Kevin051081
Anon
2009-Apr-3 9:56 am
taxesIt should be a tax deductible, but not the whole bill, cause I'm sure these people or their family will use it for other activities also. So It's just going to be a % of the total. What %, no clue though, kinda hard to say how much a person would use it for work vs home use. I sure wouldn't want to try to figure it out. | |
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Re: taxesHere in Canada (well Ontario) all home expenses are tax deductable if you work from home, but only a percentage. The percentage is calculated by how much square footage your home office is vs the total sqaure footage of your home. My home office is approx. 10% of my total home, so thus I claim 10% all expenses (repairs, utilties, phone, internet)...this does not include such things as cable or food or othersuch...unless of course you need to watch CNN or other news feeds as part of your work. Also you cannot claim electronics for some reason. So if you purchase a computer specifically for work...too bad.
Ian | |
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Re: taxesIt's the same here in the states. | |
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n2ubp join:2007-07-13 Middletown, NY |
n2ubp
Member
2009-Apr-3 10:05 am
Working from home...Working from home you save on commuting costs. You save on wear and tear on your personal vehicle. You save on auto insurance. I you manage your time effectively you should have more personal time and less stress (if your family supports you working from home) If you work from home company you work for does not have pay for a bunch of overhead. You pay for the overhead. | |
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FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2009-Apr-3 10:46 am
Good for all employees?? And good for companies?Numerous benefits are reported by telecommuters including higher job satisfaction and increased time with family due to the lack of a daily commute. I agree that telecommuting is good for some employees(but I know many workers who were VERY happy to get out of the house every day and not be stuck at home with whining kids and annoying spouses). But is it as good for employers? Where are the studies that show whether telecommuting benefits the company and not just employees & society(less gas; pollution; etc)? Some jobs are a natural fit for telecommuting(Cust Svc; marketing; etc), but many others work better with face to face communications and also need hands on access to systems(computer, network); facilities; etc. Video conferencing has made remote mtgs easier to accomplish - but they don't lend themselves even now to side mtgs; socialization with peers; & team building. It would be nice to see study results showing bottom line results comparing organizations in the same industry - those who extensively telecommute and those who don't. | |
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Not fair - non telecommuters are just jealous.Business pays for office space, electricity, furniture, heating/cooling, telecom, networking, security, parking lots.
These are all the cost of doing business...
The telecommuter reduces these costs, bow the one thing that they have to pay for they want to cut, Shameful.
It isn't $45 for a business class connection, mine is $85 with 5 static IPs, which someone like myself would need due to usage caps, VPN, etc.
The car driving to work analogy, isn't the issue. The company would still need to pay for infrastructure (see above), if you drove, trained, bused, biked, jogged, or skipped your way to work.
Stop being so jealous of Telecommuters, and see it bad business to move that cost to your employees. | |
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| TamaraBQuestion The Current Paradigm Premium Member join:2000-11-08 Da Bronx ·Verizon FiOS Ubiquiti NSM5 Synology RT2600ac Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)
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TamaraB
Premium Member
2009-Apr-3 11:47 am
Re: Not fair - non telecommuters are just jealous.said by touchtone561:Business pays for office space, electricity, furniture, heating/cooling, telecom, networking, security, parking lots. These are all the cost of doing business... The telecommuter reduces these costs, bow the one thing that they have to pay for they want to cut, Shameful. Absolutely agree! See my post above. I find the attitude of most of the posters in this thread amazing. It seems they all like to save their employers money, and want practically nothing in return. Brain washed? Me thinks. We need a better education system in this country, and a much more astute work force. Too many people are drinking the corporate cool-aid. Bob | |
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hayabusa3303Over 200 mph Premium Member join:2005-06-29 Florence, SC |
Whats next?A ISP excuse?
Just like a doctors note a ISP NOTE? now because a car took out some fiber? | |
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SSidlovOther Things On My Mind Premium Member join:2000-03-03 Pompton Lakes, NJ 1 edit |
SSidlov
Premium Member
2009-Apr-3 1:24 pm
If you telecommute you should have a legal home officeEveryone should review the requirements for a home office. » www.irs.gov/newsroom/art ··· ,00.htmlWhy? to make that 2% you can use: percent of mortgage and interest percent of maintenance (including gardening (sometimes) and cleaning services., not to mention home repairs) percent of insurance percent of utilities percent of property taxes percent of exclusive use items such as computers, peripherals, supplies, office furniture | |
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...also have to pay for itI am a telecommuter for a company that competes with IBM, and we had to start paying for our internet back in Jan. | |
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dsless join:2001-05-16 Pittsburgh, PA |
dsless
Member
2009-Apr-3 2:55 pm
I have paid mine for 10 years.I have paid for my own dial up, IDSN(@120 per month), and cable modem......... | |
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Re: I have paid mine for 10 years.I wish I had the perk of working from home I would have know problem paying for my own connection besides you can write it off as a business expense | |
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rein not reignthink horses, not kings... | |
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HR @comcast.net |
HR
Anon
2009-Apr-3 4:00 pm
Ugh.I telecommute.
What does my company cover? $80 a month.....broadband and telephone. I dont spend much on gasoline. I dont have X hours commute time every day. That is the perk to me.
The perk to the company, however, is this: I am online more than I would be otherwise. I'll often work into the evening to finish something I would otherwise be logging off and letting slip as I prepared to commute back home. So they get more of my time.
The cost of maintaining the network and telephone drops at my cube PER MONTH cost as much as them paying for my broadband, and then you can factor in the insurance they aren't paying by my not being in a facility, the electricity I'm not using, the heating and cooling I'm not using, the sanitation I'm not using, the clean-up crew that cleans my cube nightly...liability isn't an issue, and I am less likely to be injured in bad weather in a commute, among other things.
To push the cost of broadband back on the telecommuter is a slap in the face. By working from home we are already saving the company money on several levels (the coffee machine savings alone is worth $5-$10 a month per employee). | |
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I work for IBM at homeand this seems kinda reasonable to me.
Sure I'd like to have my $65/month for 18/1.5 (U-verse Max) continue to be reimbursed.
But, frankly, my wife and I use it for a lot of other things too. And, I suspect, most IBM households will continue to have broadband access whether IBM reimburses it or not.
This reimbursement is really a holdover from the old days when there were no ISPs and no public Internet, and IBM provided "home terminals" and dial-up phone access to work so you could do email/calendar or log into a development system. (IBM was, I think, the first company to do online mail/calendar/IM, starting back in the late 70s on mainframes). This was a work-only connection, there was no utility in it for your personal life, and the family certainly had no use for it.
And, if IBM can save some money, they'll be able to be more profitable, the stock will go up, and maybe I'll continue to be employed!
By the way, my understanding is that if an employee wants to switch/downgrade/cancel their service because of lack of reimbursement, IBM will reimburse for termination fees. | |
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The money they save will allow them to buy Sun.The money they save will allow them to buy Sun. | |
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