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ICE Clearly Didn't Need SOPA to Cripple Websites
As Agency Proudly Announces 132 Downed Websites
by Karl Bode 06:18PM Tuesday Nov 27 2012
Apparently the government didn't need SOPA to shut down foreign websites after all. One of the largest justifications for the immensely-unpopular SOPA was that U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) simply didn't have the power to shut down foreign websites that violate copyright. However, Techdirt notes, a new announcement by ICE clearly states that they seized and shuttered 132 international domains without SOPA. ICE's announcement clearly lays out that the organization was able to coordinate with law enforcement agencies around the world to cripple the websites. Techdirt goes on to point out that not only were the justifications for SOPA unsubstantiated (shocking), ICE doesn't appear to understand the laws they're enforcing, confused by the fact that counterfeits are about trademarks, not copyright.

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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

2 recommendations

U.S. Government doesn't need permission

.... to do anything, it appears. Illegal or otherwise, if they want it done, they just do it, everyone else be damned.

The Corporate Enforcement Arm of the U.S. Government will stop at nothing when it comes to protecting their taskmasters, it appears.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH

1 recommendation

Re: U.S. Government doesn't need permission

Are you seriously defending counterfeiters here? That's what your post smells like.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: U.S. Government doesn't need permission

No. My point being that the claims they need draconian legislation to control the populace in the naming of fighting _________ (Insert cause here) or protecting __________ (insert cause here) in order to be successful is just a red herring.

SOPA was a complete disaster area, and I'm proud to have helped fight it.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH

Re: U.S. Government doesn't need permission

Make that clear next time, as without that clarification it appeared you was. And I agree, ICE is at fault as they don't even know how to correctly enforce existing laws, thus why they thought they needed a new one.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:1

Re: U.S. Government doesn't need permission

Interesting... I thought he was quite clear.

quote:
U.S. Government doesn't need permission
.... to do anything, it appears. Illegal or otherwise, if they want it done, they just do it, everyone else be damned.

Unfortunately, there are many people who think that is exactly the way it should be.

FifthE1ement
Tech Nut

join:2005-03-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL

Re: U.S. Government doesn't need permission

said by CXM_Splicer:

Interesting... I thought he was quite clear.

quote:
U.S. Government doesn't need permission
.... to do anything, it appears. Illegal or otherwise, if they want it done, they just do it, everyone else be damned.

Unfortunately, there are many people who think that is exactly the way it should be.

Agreed and it scares the hell out of me...
--
"The relationship between what we see and what we know is never settled..."
Uncomm0n

join:2005-04-21
Centreville, VA

Re: U.S. Government doesn't need permission

Scares the hell out of me to and if they could be identified they be shot and killed on site.

Gozo

join:2012-07-25
said by OSUGoose:

Are you seriously defending (accused) counterfeiters here? That's what your post smells like.

He isn't but I gladly will. The key issue here is due process and rule of law.

In many cases ICE will forcefully take domains without trial and sometimes they will take down thousands of completely innocent websites in the process.

Labeling someone as a terrorist, communist, counterfeiter, etc doesn't make it true and opens to door to widespread abuse. Just because they say it, doesnt make it true. This is why we have courts so facts and evidence can be discovered.

This policy will lead to other countries following the US government's lead, remember the internet is global.

Whats stopping countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia or even Eqypt from seizing domains that host videos or posts that they consider offensive to the Muslim faith?

Whats stopping China from seizing domains that are critical of their government?

Of course, some of you are going to retort and say something like "copyright is a whole other issue! It has nothing to do with politics and religion" but politics and religious should be a personal issue just like copyright should be a civil issue and like all civil issues (ie evictions), it should be handled by the courts before law enforcement gets involved.

OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH

Re: U.S. Government doesn't need permission

Ok so if I steal something out your house it should be delt with by the cops you should just sue me?

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Re: U.S. Government doesn't need permission

When somebody makes a counterfeit Coach purse they are not going into the Coach factory and taking a purse, which is what you are suggesting.

Also, the fact that most people know they are buying a knock off, it becomes all the more pointless.

The market deals with this easily. People that want the real deal can find it easy enough, and those that don't can find what they want too.

The vast majority of counterfeiting is done willingly between both parties.

OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH

Re: U.S. Government doesn't need permission

They are stealing the brand's image. Go out there and try and sell knock off Monster Cables and see how fast your in jail.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

4 edits

1 recommendation

Re: U.S. Government doesn't need permission

said by OSUGoose:

They are stealing the brand's image.

The market has a very simple and efficient way of dealing with counterfeits, no laws needed.

Let me give you a brilliant example. When I was in Vietnam they had genuine pharmaceutical drugs and knock off (local generic)drugs. Everybody knows where to get both.

If you can't afford the known good drugs, you can take a chance with generic local produced drugs.

But the point being, everybody knows where to get which type.

But in countries like the US, where the market is not really allowed to work, it becomes harder to verify originals from fakes. You have exactly the opposite of what is intended.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:1
Just out of curiosity...

If I go buy a no-name, cheapo wallet and I make a Coach symbol myself in my basement and slap it on... just walk around with it telling everyone it is a Coach wallet, have I stolen the 'image'? Do I deserve to go to jail for that?

Or if I look at the patents for Monster Cables... buy the same special Low-Oxygen copper wire, connect the same style gold-plated connectors... in effect made my own Monster Cables and connected them in my car, have I stolen their design? Do I deserve to go to jail for that?
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5

Re: U.S. Government doesn't need permission

said by CXM_Splicer:

Just out of curiosity...

If I go buy a no-name, cheapo wallet and I make a Coach symbol myself in my basement and slap it on... just walk around with it telling everyone it is a Coach wallet, have I stolen the 'image'? Do I deserve to go to jail for that?

Or if I look at the patents for Monster Cables... buy the same special Low-Oxygen copper wire, connect the same style gold-plated connectors... in effect made my own Monster Cables and connected them in my car, have I stolen their design? Do I deserve to go to jail for that?

If you distribute the fake products, then you are in the very least open to a civil suit.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net

JakCrow

join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

Re: U.S. Government doesn't need permission

said by HeadSpinning:

If you distribute the fake products, then you are in the very least open to a civil suit.

Which brings up the question of why government is acting almost exclusively on the behalf of corporations these days.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:1
said by HeadSpinning:

If you distribute the fake products, then you are in the very least open to a civil suit.

And if they are not distributed but instead used personally by you? I would fully expect OSUGoose to say it is also stealing and should be punished.

not

@comcast.net
said by OSUGoose:

They are stealing the brand's image. Go out there and try and sell knock off Monster Cables and see how fast your in jail.

Monster should be going to jail for overcharging for the same cable that you can get without their brand name for way less money. Why isn't that illegal?!!?

Oh yeah, because it's corporate America where it's supply and demand... right? Wait, it's still counterfeiting... except that Monster sells you the cheap stuff for a lot more as opposed to what the knockoff guys do in that they sell you cheap stuff for cheap.

I got news for you. Large corporations do nothing more than make the same cheap stuff, but because they have the money to trademark their names/logos and spend the billions you pay them for it to get celebrities to endorse those products, they should be allowed to rip you off?

I guess we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. Huh?
robhwill

join:2008-02-23
Detroit, MI
Amen and Amen!! Those that would not wait for the process would subvert the very system they claim to cherish!! See, it's all good see --- as long as mostly or only they (those whom would rush to judgment) have at the very least the most power to decide what is or is not American, safe, private, etc. etc. However, when the "gubbamint" steps on their rights (bailout of banks, not 'Main St.', or failure to realize jobs, reduce foreign competition, or _________ take your pick) or otherwise abuses its power(s) then oohhhh, look out. The fundamental question we must all ask of ourselves is this: Are we against anyone having unchecked power, or are we merely against (fundamentally) the ones that currently wield such power having it ---- with ourselves as the most viable replacement??
Have A Healthy, Prosperous Day!
---rob
kevinds

join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:2

1 edit
And before someone else says, it doesn't happen, and there are things in place that don't allow it,

ICE took the mooo.com domain, and sent somewhere around 84000 websites to the child-porn warning couple years ago.
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
said by OSUGoose:

Are you seriously defending counterfeiters here? That's what your post smells like.

If I had a choice between draconian laws and counterfeiters, guess which I would choose?

And I thought his post was pretty obvious by the way. Yours seems a tab pointless.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
said by OSUGoose:

Are you seriously defending counterfeiters here? That's what your post smells like.

I think he is telling us that Captain Renault is alive, and well, and working for ICE.

"Round Up the Usual Suspects!"
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
Rekrul

join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
said by OSUGoose:

Are you seriously defending counterfeiters here? That's what your post smells like.

Yes, thank goodness that ICE is hard at work protecting corporate interests, rather than wasting their time doing something pointless, like catching illegal immigrants...

robhwill50

@sbcglobal.net

Ditto!!

Thanks for being a fair and impartial thinker/reasoner, rather than an emotional
wanderlust!! You are obviously not an attorney !! We have only to look at McCarthyism, the film industry 'production code' and other such lessons to learn from previous mistakes. Notice the fundamental 'rule of law' is mostly avoided by many nowadays in favor of more emotional phrases such as 'our American way of life'; without of course taking into consideration that any such way is fluid, not fixed. Thus the proud reliance on America's history as a 'melting pot' of cultures, ideas, etc.-etc.-etc. Again, thank you for having the courage of (sound) conviction. May The Process Be With You. Have A Healthy, Prosperous Day!
---robhwill
cyber610

join:2012-11-27
Honey Brook, PA

two year ban

»www.cnn.com/2012/11/27/tech/web/···pt=hp_t2
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Mediacom

YADNA

"Yet Another Dis-Informative News Article"

Please read even the first paragraph of the WikiPedia article.

Then, here's your homework:

Compare, and contrast, the facts with this "news article".

I'm tired of laying it out for you people. Do it yourself for a change.