ISPs Being Pressured To Become Piracy Cops IFPI proposes filters; website & protocol blockades... Tipped by h4x0r3d 
The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) is pressuring European lawmakers to create the piracy equivalent of the great Chinese firewall. In a letter (pdf) to lawmakers, the group urges them to force ISPs to employ content filters, block certain protocols, and eliminate access to certain websites in "rogue jurisdictions" like the Pirate Bay. According to the group, none of these options are "overly burdensome or expensive, or causes problems for regular services to the ISP's customers."The EFF, as you might imagine, is calling that poppycock (pdf), arguing that such filters stifle innovation, and the cost of implementing them would be carried by the consumer. They also suggest that the filters likely wouldn't work anyway, as users would simply encrypt their traffic: Introducing filtering technology at ISP facilities would simply cause infringing Net users to encrypt their communications in the same way, eliminating any chance that these filters could successfully target these transfers. Such encrypted content cannot be examined or blocked by third parties such as ISPs; if it could, the financial institutions would be equally at risk. The RIAA, MPAA and companies such as NBC are engaged in a similar quest here in the States, and have been also urging lawmakers to force ISPs (and in some case residential hardware vendors) to implement piracy filters.
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 | | Poppycock! This is truly poppycock! | |
|  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
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kudos:4 |  ISPs will start doing this
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|  |  MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
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1 edit | Re: ISPs will start doing this said by Romney2012:ISPs will start cooperating with the Intellectual Property industries as intellectual content becomes a larger and larger part of a country's GDP. And no matter what the EFF says, they will find a way to implement blocking of illegal content, even if it means implementing a list of ALLOWABLE IP addresses and web sites. There is just too much money involved(and the amounts of money is constantly growing) for them to do otherwise. I agree they will try something. It will end up being a PITA the for legit content users like myself and the Bad Guys™ will just find a way around it.
Technology marches too fast for the huge, monolithic companies like AT&T, to react in a timely manner. By the time a bypass is even on their radar, there will be 2 or 3 other ways of bypassing it.
The solution is so simple, but it'll never happen:
- Go after the advertisers.
If you go after the companies that aren't hiding and who advertise on illegal sites, you'll take the money equation out of running an illegal site. It wouldn't take too many companies being sued under the might of an MPAA or RIAA to scare other companies away.
Besides, like someone else mentioned, encrypt all traffic ... now what? List of allowable IP addresses? Proxy. | |
| | | | said by Romney2012:ISPs will start cooperating with the Intellectual Property industries as intellectual content becomes a larger and larger part of a country's GDP. First thing I found at your blog is a copyright violation, hypocrite. | |
| | | Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
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1 edit | Re: ISPs will start doing this said by russotto:said by Romney2012:ISPs will start cooperating with the Intellectual Property industries as intellectual content becomes a larger and larger part of a country's GDP. First thing I found at your blog is a copyright violation, hypocrite. You're wrong and ignorant of what constitutes copyright infringement to boot. There are no violations.
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| | | | | | Re: ISPs will start doing this So the creator of that video has obtained the required permissions and paid the composer, songwriter, and recording royalties? | |
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|  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
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| And once such a system is in place, it's power and scope will expand, to not only include the illegal, but the objectionable too... and then on to political correctness, and soon, and on to information that the Government or corporations might find embarrasing, and then expand to all material that anyone could possibly take offense at.
And soon we'll have the dumbed down to the lowest common denominator internet access that only allows you to pay for services and watch corporate commercials and have "Fun time Kiddie Chat" ...
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| |  QumahlinNever Enough TimePremium,MVM
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united state | said by Romney2012:ISPs will start cooperating with the Intellectual Property industries as intellectual content becomes a larger and larger part of a country's GDP. And no matter what the EFF says, they will find a way to implement blocking of illegal content, even if it means implementing a list of ALLOWABLE IP addresses and web sites. There is just too much money involved(and the amounts of money is constantly growing) for them to do otherwise. Well no because the money involved isn't even calculable. Everytime someone download a song or movie the record company/movie studio tries to say its a "loss" when in reality it isn't. For example I have the Alvin and the Chipmunks soundtrack that I downloaded yesterday sitting on my PC. I downloaded it purely because my sister saw the movie and said the songs were hysterical they were so bad (and they are)
Now, had I not been able to download the album, I can assure you I would have simply took her word for it. Now the movie/record studios would say this was a loss of xx dollars...but how is that possible? Had I not been able to download the album I would never in my life had gone to the store and bought it.
If they decide to enforce this and everyone moves to encrypted traffic you just made the problem worse and at the same time helped the "criminals" even more. | |
| | | | | Re: ISPs will start doing this There is money for the RIAA and MPAA, but artists are starting to wake up and smell the money to. The RIAA and MPAA are nothing but litigation machines without their slaves. | |
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| | Ouch! Sigh when will the bleeding stop? | |
| | | | Re: Ouch! ISP's cant stop what they cant see. Encryption baby!!!!!! I know encryption is part of my everyday life.:)To me just another waist of time. But go ahead and waste your money ISP's LMFAO!!!! | |
| | |  dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
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Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | Re: Ouch! said by dr3yec:ISP's cant stop what they cant see. Encryption baby! Then they'll do what rogers does. throttle ALL encrypted content. at the end of the day its the little guy that loses!
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 dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
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kudos:18 | China anyone? Uhm... BULLSHIT!
If I want to search for Latex Porn, regardless of the source, I should be able to.
Who is going to be the Judge and Jury of what I can do with my internet connection?
Who's values are going to be used as a guideline?
What about when this horse manure starts blocking LEGIT sites/sources?
Nothing is infallible.
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| | Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
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USA
kudos:4 | Re: China anyone? said by dadkins:Who is going to be the Judge and Jury of what I can do with my internet connection? The ISPs.
said by dadkins:Who's values are going to be used as a guideline? Society & the legal system
said by dadkins:What about when this horse manure starts blocking LEGIT sites/sources? Nothing is infallible. Collateral damage.
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| | | dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
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kudos:18 | Re: China anyone? Yeah, wait 'til it happens to you, then go ahead and dismiss it. 
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| | | | | | Re: China anyone? said by dadkins:Yeah, wait 'til it happens to you, then go ahead and dismiss it. Yeah. He'll be the loudest screaming about how they "stomped" all over his right to view/download content.  | |
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1 edit | You have a very skewed idea of what's happening here, HCT:
said by Romney2012:said by dadkins:Who is going to be the Judge and Jury of what I can do with my internet connection? The ISPs. no, it's not the ISPs, it's what the content industry will force upon the ISPs; the ISPs generally don't care what people do with their connection, unless they are big enough (comcast, TW) to also own content.
said by Romney2012:said by dadkins:Who's values are going to be used as a guideline? Society & the legal system No, it will be the content cartel's guidelines and their bought legislation, not Society's; society's guidelines are already saying IP and copyright law are very out of whack - what other message is there to draw from the fact that ANYONE that does ANYTHING creative online probably violates IP law to the tune of millions of dollars a day?
said by Romney2012:said by dadkins:What about when this horse manure starts blocking LEGIT sites/sources? Nothing is infallible. Collateral damage. As in "who gives a crap what problems this causes, we got what we wanted, who cares about the public or society at large?"
Then again, given that you consider breaking the internet as "collateral damage" in the fight to preserve the content industy's dying (yes, dying) business model, I guess you don't consider your views skewed. | |
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| Re: China anyone? said by nasadude:No, it will be the content cartel's guidelines and their bought legislation, not Society's; I wonder how many people opposed to greater ISP control of illegal activities are the same people who support civil lawsuits against telcos (as a cheap way to do what they can't do through criminal proceedings). If it's a large overlap, I wonder why these same people aren't willing to let this work itself out in civil court, the subject of basically a popularity contest (not whether it's legal or constitutional).
[duck]
Mark | |
| | | | | | | Re: China anyone? said by amigo_boy:said by nasadude:No, it will be the content cartel's guidelines and their bought legislation, not Society's; I wonder how many people opposed to greater ISP control of illegal activities are the same people who support civil lawsuits against telcos (as a cheap way to do what they can't do through criminal proceedings). If it's a large overlap, I wonder why these same people aren't willing to let this work itself out in civil court, the subject of basically a popularity contest (not whether it's legal or constitutional). [duck] Mark Ah, the "Off-Topic" troll has arrived... | |
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1 edit | Re: China anyone? said by ross:Ah, the "Off-Topic" troll has arrived... Yes you have.
This kind of legislation needs to be put of the discussion table, much less turned down. | |
| | | | | | | | | Re: China anyone? said by grandpinaple:said by ross:Ah, the "Off-Topic" troll has arrived... Yes you have. This kind of legislation needs to be put of the discussion table, much less turned down. What kind of stupid fucking remark is that to make? You and Amigo Boy apparently can't follow the topic!
The TOPIC:
"The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) is pressuring European lawmakers to create the piracy equivalent of the great Chinese firewall. In a letter (pdf) to lawmakers, the group urges them to force ISPs to employ content filters, block certain protocols, and eliminate access to certain websites in "rogue jurisdictions" like the Pirate Bay. According to the group, none of these options are "overly burdensome or expensive, or causes problems for regular services to the ISP's customers...
...The RIAA, MPAA and companies such as NBC are engaged in a similar quest here in the States, and have been also urging lawmakers to force ISPs (and in some case residential hardware vendors) to implement piracy filters...
...The EFF, as you might imagine, is calling that poppycock..."
The topic is NOT civil lawsuits against Telcos for illegally handing over customer call records to the NSA, and for providing illegal real-time access to all traffic across their voice/data networks to the NSA without a warrant having been obtained, despite Amigo Boy's confused bleatings, and now your own in support of his dragging the thread "off-topic". | |
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| | jsouthJsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS | Hmmm Society and the legal system you say? Then can we form a coalition to say kick off sites like MTV and VH1 for promoting indecency using the same method or say, take down one of the RIAA's website when they were condoning hacking. We could also strike at your blog because it's offencive to us. Sorry a majority in society says so. Oh well. It's just collateral damage.
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| Isn't this where the ISPs form a collective and build a warchest to lobby with?
I would charge the content companies with traffic fees!
Seriously, an ISP has to be responsible for its content passing through? And if they are proactive, the tab will be incredible (annual support fees and licenses w/updates).
Heck, my firewall vendor keeps nailing me with subscription updates and other nickel-dime services (oh, you want an ethernet port? $100/yr. Oh, you need gigabit? another $50/yr. First 50 users are free...but hey, you want 25 more...chaching)
No wonder they tax subscriptions now... | |
| | | | | Re: China anyone? I think Ed Whiteacre should charge the RIAA and MPAA for all the pirated content that crosses his tubes every day. Every song, album, and movie. Then there should be the monitoring fees. Then he should charge them a tax on all the charges. | |
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| | No Way There is no way they can do this. The Internet was built on the idea that all information is open and available. Blocking individual sites or application is not only attacking the foundation of the internet, but also free speech (1st amendment in the US), innovation (companies using the technologies to distribute free/payed content), as well as the fact that that would surely be seen as another attack on the already dwindling consumer rights. Should ISPs start this, they will end up with more than just the cost of piracy software, but also the court costs of numerous groups... not just the EFF.
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| | | Even more... Pissing in the wind. Anything they do can be and will be circumvented. Give it up already, jeeez. | |
|  cacrollEventually, Prozac becomes normalPremium
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Martinez, CA | HorseShit Encryption and proxy servers.
The Internet is a worldwide facility. Laws made in one country cannot affect the Internet as a whole.
If any one country does not bow down to these assholes, the ISPs in that country will be used for access. If any one ISP does not bow down to these assholes, that ISP will be used for access.
If the RIAA, MPAA and companies such as NBC expect piracy to stop, they need to remove their heads from their arseholes, and come up with a business model that encourages people not to support piracy. That's the only solution.
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Cleveland, OH | Re: HorseShit said by cacroll:If the RIAA, MPAA and companies such as NBC expect piracy to stop, they need to remove their heads from their arseholes, and come up with a business model that encourages people not to support piracy. That's the only solution. Lets be serious here. "Piracy" will never and I will repeat for the morons among us, NEVER go away. ISPs implement protocol filters, pirates encrypt and modify protocols. ISPs implement IP bans, proxy servers will route around them. What the "content providers" need to do is reevaluate their "product" to determine at what point most people will buy it instead of "stealing" it. That is an effective strategy, coupled with going after real pirates, and bootleggers they will still be able to prosper.
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| |  ShamayimI already have a Messiah.Premium
join:2002-09-23 | said by cacroll:they need to remove their heads from their arseholes, and come up with a business model that encourages people not to support piracy. What IS the "business model" that encourages people not to support piracy other than FREE?
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| | | cacrollEventually, Prozac becomes normalPremium
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Martinez, CA | Re: HorseShit said by Shamayim:What IS the "business model" that encourages people not to support piracy other than FREE?
Go shopping at the mall. Do all stores there have anti-theft gates?
Most people believe in paying for honestly and responsibly manufactured and marketed products, and advise others to pay for those products. They go shopping, and they pay for the products. Many stores don't need anti-theft gates, and they don't give their products away either.
On the other hand, "sell" me something and tell me not to share what I buy with my friends, or pay extra to use it in my car than in my home, and I'll tell you where to get off.
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| Re: HorseShit said by cacroll:On the other hand, "sell" me something and tell me not to share what I buy with my friends, or pay extra to use it in my car than in my home, and I'll tell you where to get off. Sorry, but that's not convincing. You have a choice not to buy if you don't agree with the terms of the sale.
However, I do agree that copyright has *immensely* tilted toward artists and publishers. It used to be a balance between the artist and society to encourage creative people to create, and recompense society for involving itself in a private market transaction (to facilitate a market for creative people).
The best example is Windows 3.1 It won't enter the Public Domain until around 2070. It wouldn't be worth much to anyone today. How will society be recompensed in 2070?
Your argument sounds like theft. Whereas, if you use my argument it sounds like society is being robbed. Disrespect for copyright could be argued to be a noble act of civil disobedience.
It might resonate more with people who are opposed to theft. It might convey the fundamental problem.
Mark | |
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| | | | Enough freedom for the masses Internet has enabled the wretched masses a taste of freedom. It's about time we clamp the hoses of free information.
1 Ban all those torrent files(filter or otherwise), ban all the sites that even have links to illegal content
2. Ban any dissenting sites in the name of national security
3. Allow only the sites that are not against us
Putin has laid an exemplary parable for the new world order and the commies at the time magazine name him the man of the year | |
| | | | | |  Re: Enough freedom for the masses
said by nutcr0cker:Internet has enabled the wretched masses a taste of freedom. It's about time we clamp the hoses of free information. 1 Ban all those torrent files(filter or otherwise), ban all the sites that even have links to illegal content 2. Ban any dissenting sites in the name of national security 3. Allow only the sites that are not against us Putin has laid an exemplary parable for the new world order and the commies at the time magazine name him the man of the year What has Putin to do with any of this? Are you so brainwashed that you think Putin is responsible for censoring the internet? Are you seriously that naive?
Wow some Americans... | |
| | | |  Dnepr
join:2001-11-28
Tarpon Springs, FL | said by nutcr0cker:Internet has enabled the wretched masses a taste of freedom. It's about time we clamp the hoses of free information. 1 Ban all those torrent files(filter or otherwise), ban all the sites that even have links to illegal content 2. Ban any dissenting sites in the name of national security 3. Allow only the sites that are not against us Putin has laid an exemplary parable for the new world order and the commies at the time magazine name him the man of the year What has Putin to do with any of this?
Some Americans... | |
| | | |  elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO | right... and end up like China no thanks
also what about legit uses of bit torrent like say.. the patcher for WoW and some small aps
the day the US bans sites is the day i leave the US
but im sure you would of been happy in the old Soviet Union right were any one could be wisked off in the night never to return and that included some of the most loyal members of its inner workings | |
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|  wruckman Ruckman.net
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Northwood, OH | Sieg Heil! There is always someone out to destroy peoples rights and ability to communicate freely in their own selfish quest to obtain more money. This has to be stopped immediately. Good thing we have people like the EFF to help defend us. Otherwise we will all be sitting in our living rooms deciding which program we want to pay $20 to watch tonight and get 45 minutes of commercials and 15 minutes of expensive programming. If they get their way, the MPAA and RIAA would have free reign to log into your personal computer and DVR to inspect what you watch and what they want you to watch. And just pray that they don't find out that you didn't pay for a song or tv program or you might owe them $200,000 in damages.
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| |  PashuneCaps stifle innovationPremium
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| Re: Sieg Heil! said by wruckman:There is always someone out to destroy peoples rights and ability to communicate freely in their own selfish quest to obtain more money. This has to be stopped immediately. Good thing we have people like the EFF to help defend us. Otherwise we will all be sitting in our living rooms deciding which program we want to pay $20 to watch tonight and get 45 minutes of commercials and 15 minutes of expensive programming. If they get their way, the MPAA and RIAA would have free reign to log into your personal computer and DVR to inspect what you watch and what they want you to watch. And just pray that they don't find out that you didn't pay for a song or tv program or you might owe them $200,000 in damages. Scary.
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| |  TechieZeroTools Are Using MePremium
join:2002-01-25
Gibsonton, FL | It's their internet, not the publics. They can do anything they want.
For the rest of the whacked stuff you typed, don't buy a system with those kind of restrictions. Vote with your dollar. | |
| | | wruckman Ruckman.net
join:2007-10-25
Northwood, OH
1 edit | Re: Sieg Heil! It isn't me who is going to be buying such things but the other uninformed consumers. As for the stuff I typed being whacked, sounds like a simplistic name calling session. They ARE out to destroy your rights. And they WILL win because the government favors big business. They are not out to protect your rights. They are only out to take them away. As long as we dump this representative democracy and go with a pure democracy. | |
| | | | TechieZeroTools Are Using MePremium
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| Re: Sieg Heil! It's ***their*** network. They bought and paid for it. How would you like to own a business and then have some ass say that you are taking away their rights so the government needs to take your infrastructure.
I haven't even begun to call you names yet. But I can be convinced real easy. | |
| | | | | wruckman Ruckman.net
join:2007-10-25
Northwood, OH | Re: Sieg Heil! Bring it on! | |
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| | last time i checked.. the last time i checked, ISPs were not police in any form (private or government run). all the ISPs should be required to do is obey legal orders from a court of law and not take sides on this issue (for some reason, ron paul's idea of 'soft facism' is coming to mind). i don't know the technicalities of the laws, but is it possible to consider some of these actions as impersonating a police officer? but i think that is wishful thinking
i say this is more proof that the monopoly setup and maintained by the RIAA/MPAA/IFPI (and so on) is crumbling and they are scared they will loose more money for their questionably 'good quality' intellectual property. | |
| joeMI
join:2006-08-15
Mcmillan, MI | What business model would really work? People have often written about copyright owners coming up with a better business model, pricing, etc.
Years ago, if you gave content to a friend and they copied it, it was lower quality. If they passed it on, it became practically unwatchable. If the person liked it, there was a good chance they would go out and buy a copy for themselves.
With digital, you get a perfect copy every time...no matter how many copies you make or your friends or their friends. It's flawless.
I'm not sure what businesses can do because the bottom line is: People are cheap.
Lets say they charge $1.00 per TV episode. Are you going to pay $22 for a season or are you going to get it from a friend who purchased it last week?
Don't lie. You'll hand your friend a memory stick and get it from them.
And when there are multiple seasons where all 9 seasons of Seinfeld would cost say $198? How many people would get it from a friend to save $200? A lot. People are cheap. And $200 is a lot of money to most people.
So I guess my questions are...
1. What business model would you propose to copyright owners?
2. How much should they charge for a TV episode? A movie? A song?
3. How would you discourage excessive file sharing?
Just my two cents,
Joe
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| | AWMs are Starving Haha! There is no longer so much easy money in porn. It's all just a tangle of "affiliate marketing" now anyway. Most membership services offer nothing of value to make anyone pay. They're just mad because they have to get real jobs now and can't say they work in porn just because they signed up for an affiliate program. Um...good luck, losers. There are naked people doing weird things for free everywhere. | |
| TechieZeroTools Are Using MePremium
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Gibsonton, FL | Liability
To stop criminals is what the police are for. Let it be their job. | |
| | | @Article
Like many have said.. There will also be ways to get around methods put up, stopping pirates..
What I wanted to say is this though.. examples>
I buy a book, and I put it on a table for anyone to read. It may be an IP, but I am not trying to make a profit by any means, only sharing a good book.
Same with Music.. Good CD, I buy it, burn three of the songs onto a CD.(since only three were good) Share it with a friend. It cost me the 15 to 20 dollars for the CD. Then the blank CD also cost me money and time to make even though I am doing this for free. And said friend end up not liking the music and threw it away. Who lost? I did.
A good movie.. Same as with the CD. Except this time I decide.. hey I don't want to waste my money on a blank DVD, and just transfer it via.. ftp.. or p2p. by the internet connection I paid for. Friend likes it buys a Copy legitimately from Walmart, or Amazon.com..
Whoever produced that movie that was well worth while, made money.
In all my examples. The product was originally bought at some point in time. And Shared. The Book, Song, or Media, was not shared with some intent to sale. It was not forcibly taken from anyone without there consent. i.e Like a Pirate or Thief might do.
.. if its worth buying, people will buy it. If the product is a pile of steamy shit, then you will avoid it.
What the MPAA & RIAA are trying to do, to me... is buy the playing field. And control what happens on it. Hopefully this will not be the case. As some mentioned, I guess I can say Generally Hollywood, has a dying business model, or at least one with a really bad limp. But instead of fixing the problem, there fixing symptoms.
At this point I would just probably ramble...
But one more thing.. as far as I know distribution via Internet cuts out a ton of cost.. From the DVDs.. to the Manufacturing cost.. to the labor it takes to make sure things are running correctly and on schedule for the DVD release. Plus they can cut out quite a few middle men cost as well. From Transportation, to Storage, to cost at the retail store to display said items.
I guess when the cost starts making sense to the person buying, things will turn for the better.
To Recap:
+Pirates and Thieves are people to steal with the intent of some kind of gain.
+People who share things they bought willingly should not be listed as pirates. Just people who share.
+People who never buy hard copies to support the creators I would call moochers..
+Hollywood, needs to pull there heads out of there assess or fantasy land and revaluate there business model.
I must make this note.. What the MPAA and the RIAA are trying to do, is the equivalent of one man taking on and fighting a hundred other men. Except in this case, the MPAA and RIAA are trying to fight well the world? or at least Millions of people. ..
Another words there fight is futile, stupid, their strategy is lacking.. I guess this is why there trying to buy the playing field. Why try and be creative? 
End my Humble Opinion.
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| | | Their getting desprite Hurting farmers? Pressuring ISP'S to use content filtering? Crying like babies because they have control issues?
1- They charge too much for the crap the make/label.
2-P2P has increased profits but not got them every dime.
3-Individuals that produce their own material the big labels don't control seem to upset them.
4-Laws in various countries don't support/get enforced the way the big labels want.
5-Media brainwashing not working like it used to.
Their are reaching for straws by bringing the farmers into their lost fight. They say popcorn sales get reduced. May bee sales increase? More people buy it so they can have it watching shows in the comfort of their own home. I know I have. I know many others that have as well.
P2P has given me a way to preview many games, movies and apps. I have gone out to buy them in support of the product when I like it. I would never have purchased them otherwise.
When "free to download" video's or music are made and released that the big labels don't have control over, gets more attention that their releases, or they feel they loose potential money, they use that for their crying arguments. They say they loose money but in reality, if they had good releases to compete, the crying would stop.
For them, it's all about money and control and not what people want. They release crap, market the hell out of it, and hope it makes money. Just look at the sad ratio of good quality vs crap hype we see today.
Many countries police forces are just too small and busy with violent crimes to be burdened with or bot herd with trying to catch P2P users.Unless someone is turned in for downloading, burning and selling copyrighted material, no one bothers them. This is why the pressure on ISP's to filter-throttle service.
All in all, the new digital pirates are here to stay and they are gaining ground. All the brainwashing ways that could be control ed and hidden are now exposed and people are fighting back. We live in a very competitive world and the big labels ways of the past don't work here.
We have a very informative web system that breaks the control that used to be in effect and it is the new way of the world. If the big labels want to be around to be a part of it they need to be a part of the solution, not part of the problem. If they come up with a way to use the web to their advantage, their would be a drop in the large number of pi raters and their poor me crying would stop.
They waste millions on anti-piracy crap and it has only gotten worse.
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