ISPs Ramping Up P2P WarningsCox employs three strikes, Time Warner invades your browser... 12:20PM Friday Dec 04 2009 by Karl Bodetags: legal · Fileswapping · business · content · consumersFor years now, the battle against piracy has gone a little something like this: based on sometimes accurate evidence, intelligence firms working for the entertainment industry send the IP address information of users who've shared a copyrighted file to ISPs, who then forward a DMCA warning letter to the end user without identifying that user to the entertainment industry. The end user then completely ignores the letter and -- absolutely nothing else happens. Obviously this doesn't do much to deter piracy, which is why the entertainment industry has been pushing for ISPs to take tougher measures. Internationally, there's growing pressure on lawmakers to pass bills that force ISPs to patrol their networks and terminate the connections of repeat offenders. Given these users are paying customers, and acting as content nanny is expensive, ISPs instead are ramping up the notification efforts -- in the hopes that this keeps the entertainment industry (and the politicians who love them) off of their back. While data supporting whether this accomplishes anything is mixed, it's why Verizon recently started increasing MPAA & RIAA letters, and it's why Time Warner Cable is trying a new notification system as well. According to Gizmodo, Roadrunner customers who engage in P2P transfers of copyrighted materials (and forget to use forced encryption) are now getting full window browser notifications that inform them they've been very naughty customers. The warnings, which they've actually been using for a little while now, insist that Roadrunner is stepping in to protect the user from P2P: This notice is to remind you that the distribution of copyrighted material in this fashion may violate both copyright laws and Road Runner's terms of service, and to tell you a bit about peer-to-peer programs, the dangers they can pose to your computer and our network, and the steps you can take to protect yourself. It is, after all, important to "protect you" from that first season of Mad Men and the entire Led Zeppelin discography that you just downloaded. Accidentally. Just like with DMCA warnings, nothing happens after the warning is issued. A user can simply click on "I am aware of this issue and will take steps to resolve it," and then go download a pirated CAM of 2012. It's just a process for the sake of having a process, designed to keep regulators from imposing new anti-piracy laws that dictate how the ISPs can run their networks. In this instance who can blame them -- the entertainment industry essentially wants ISPs to spend money to prop up (unless you're Comcast/NBC Universal) somebody else's failing business model. For most ISPs, such efforts will be expensive, and probably won't do much to slow piracy's relentless growth. Instead of filters and booting people off of the Internet, carriers are hoping that alerts make the entertainment industry happy. Of course some ISPs, like Cox Communications, are placating Hollywood by taking things even further -- engaging in anti-piracy efforts that can result in account termination if you don't heed Cox warnings. However, Cox tells us that's a minuscule portion of their userbase they actually wind up booting from the network -- as in less than one-tenth of 1% of all Cox users. Of course none of this is going to stop piracy. ISPs have been sending out warning letters since earlier this decade, and piracy exploded anyway. It still seems likely that regulators here in the States will follow their French and UK counterparts and embrace the "three strikes" or "graduated response" approach to combating piracy. But booting potential customers off of the Internet for watching pirated copies of The Golden Girls creates more problems than it solves. Who pays? Who tracks terminated users across ISPs? Who creates an independent review system for the falsely accused? What happens if all P2P traffic is just encrypted? Meanwhile, it still wouldn't address the core issue here: that the entertainment industry needs to adapt and create simple, cheap and compelling alternatives to piracy. Related:- Amazon Pirate Firefox Plugin Was Art Project
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- Piracy Increases In France Despite 'Three Strikes' Law
|
 Metatron2008
join:2008-09-02 Stockbridge, GA 1 edit | Led Zeppelin? I wasn't aware that people had good taste anymore.
I thought most ISPs protect people from Transformers 2 and crappy Metal bands. | |
|  |  gorehound
join:2009-06-19 Portland, ME | Re: Led Zeppelin? Boycott all corporate music and films.Do not buy new stuff.Buy only used or buy new Indie bands and films. Have A Nice Day Hollywood !!! and FUCK OFF !!!! | |
|  |  |  fiberguy My views are my own. Premium join:2005-05-20
| Re: Led Zeppelin? said by gorehound :Boycott all corporate music and films.Do not buy new stuff.Buy only used or buy new Indie bands and films. Have A Nice Day Hollywood !!! and FUCK OFF !!!! So what you're REALLY saying is.. "If you don't like us stealing your stuff, then screw you!!" and then the follow up attitude of ".. I'd never buy your crap anyway!"
Hrmmm.... GREAT attitude!
The problem is, that you, like the large user base here, are in the very small minority these days. MOST people realize right from wrong and sharing and stealing the content is, well, wrong.
I have a very good way to back my theory up with one question to you...
.. "why should anyone boycott, based on the context of this article/posting here, and get angry at the companies for trying to protect their content?"
The people forced the hand of the industry, which would have happened anyway sooner or later, with Napster.. it was Napster that got us into the single song download era. Then, people took that music and shared it for the world to have - very nice of those people... so that brought us in DRM. Eventually, they backed down and we're seeing more DRM-less content available out there.
So, I see the NEXT step is, what I'm guessing your theory is, the next step is to simply tell Hollywood to spend the millions and billions on this stuff and just give it away.. after all, they are a charity and there is no money to be made.
Really.. tell us all what you REALLY think is "fair"... everyone here bitches about not being able to steal music and videos for free, and there are a few valid complaints to which I agree about how MUCH they try to lock things down, but we're talking about the RIGHTS to use something and the WAY it's purchased... so with that in mind..
... describe fair!
(I know that's a subject very few people like to bring up, becuase it completely exposes their agenda.) There are two sides to everything.. give and take.. and in this case, you have to be on BOTH sides. | |
|  |  |  |   yago
@charter.com | Re: Led Zeppelin? if they bitch at people for p2p because the record company cant handle the sh*T, they need to pay them more! LMFAO | |
|  |  |  |  |  fiberguy My views are my own. Premium join:2005-05-20 | Re: Led Zeppelin? said by yago :
if they bitch at people for p2p because the record company cant handle the sh*T, they need to pay them more! LMFAO HUH? | |
|  |  |  |  |   Hasselhoff Guarding Lives Premium join:2005-03-19 Evanston, IL clubs: | Re: Imagine... you forget that the recording and movie industry are founded on those enterprises that you mentioned. -- sbcglobal.net speedtest result 11/11/09 - 5256kbps | |
|   ISPvsP2P
@rr.com
| OK... Sadly this won't fix the piracy problem. Like many previous news articles here on this site that people have commented, it will increase the use of encryption. I'm not against P2P but I am against the use of P2P of illegal reasons. I do buy my music and movies. It's not that often that I buy a CD or movie (I generally get them as gifts around the holidays or as a birthday present). Most of the music out today isn't that great. That's why I don't buy music that I don't like. If I don't like it I don't buy it...but I don't steal it either. I do neither. If I like what I here on a artists MySpace or YouTube video I go out and buy it. Just recently I decided that I was going to start doing things to support the artists in more ways since most of the money doesn't go to the artists when you buy a CD. None the less I still buy it. I believe they rely on mostly live performances for their money. The biggest problem that the entertainment industry has to over come is how to get people who aren't like me who are willing to pay for the entertainment they want. The #1 question they must find the answer to is: How do we compete for free? In my eyes you can't. This seems to be the biggest problem. Why pay when you can get for free? I pay because I don't mind paying for the music. If I couldn't afford it, I wouldn't steal it but to each their own. As for the ISP side of this issue...I am more than willing to back up the idea of cutting customers off. When you sign up for the services you agree to their terms of use. Don't agree and break their rules...you get booted. This has been a ongoing issue since P2P broke out in the beginning and it's only going to get worse the longer it goes on. P2P is not the problem, selling the product while still making a profit off of it this day in age is. | |
|  |   KodiacZiller
join:2008-09-04 73368
| Re: OK... said by ISPvsP2P :
Sadly this won't fix the piracy problem. Like many previous news articles here on this site that people have commented, it will increase the use of encryption. Encryption won't protect you from DMCA letters. The letters are sent after an IP address was identified in a torrent swarm. It has nothing to do with the transfer of the file itself. For obvious reasons, it isn't possible to hide an IP address in a torrent swarm (proxies notwithstanding). | |
|  |  |  silentlooker
join:2009-11-01 | Re: OK... Using torrent in it self is not illegal. So DMCA is baseless unless they can figure out what you're downloading. Lets not forget newsgroups, they been around for long time and will continue to be and they are not tracked. | |
|  |  |  |  fiberguy My views are my own. Premium join:2005-05-20
| Re: OK... said by silentlooker :Using torrent in it self is not illegal. So DMCA is baseless unless they can figure out what you're downloading. Lets not forget newsgroups, they been around for long time and will continue to be and they are not tracked. Ummm.. the Music/Picture industry is out there grabbing content FROM people and I'm pretty sure when the content gets to its destination, they can pretty much figure out what was being shared.
It's the sharing, not the taking, that they typically go after. | |
|  |  |   Hasselhoff Guarding Lives Premium join:2005-03-19 Evanston, IL clubs: | sure it is. you heard of TOR? | |
|  |  |   ISPvsP2P
@rr.com
| said by KodiacZiller :said by ISPvsP2P :
Sadly this won't fix the piracy problem. Like many previous news articles here on this site that people have commented, it will increase the use of encryption. Encryption won't protect you from DMCA letters. The letters are sent after an IP address was identified in a torrent swarm. It has nothing to do with the transfer of the file itself. For obvious reasons, it isn't possible to hide an IP address in a torrent swarm (proxies notwithstanding). I forgot to add that in. It won't necessarily hide you but going by some past posts about this topic it seems people believe it will. I wouldn't know, I'm not a P2P user (neither legal or illegal). Have no reason. | |
|  |  |  |  |  silentlooker
join:2009-11-01
| So you say that you're okay with isp cutting people off. What do you say when a grandmother gets cut off because someone used her wireless router that was totally unlocked or was locked with wep. Linksys is the biggest free isp and will continue to be for long time. | |
|  |  |  Lazlow
join:2006-08-07 Saint Louis, MO
| Re: OK... Right along with that is Docsis (cable ) spoofing. Somebody spoofs your Docsis mac, downloads bad stuff, and then you get the bad toad notice. Until they can prove who actually download the material(they cannot right now), disconnects should not be on the table. | |
|  |  |   ISPvsP2P
@rr.com
| said by silentlooker :So you say that you're okay with isp cutting people off. What do you say when a grandmother gets cut off because someone used her wireless router that was totally unlocked or was locked with wep. Linksys is the biggest free isp and will continue to be for long time. It's the owner of the wireless routers job to protect their own network. If they can't they should have someone who knows how to do it for them. Just like it's the ISP's job to take care of their own network and set the ground rules. | |
|  |  |  |  silentlooker
join:2009-11-01
| Re: OK... said by ISPvsP2P :said by silentlooker :So you say that you're okay with isp cutting people off. What do you say when a grandmother gets cut off because someone used her wireless router that was totally unlocked or was locked with wep. Linksys is the biggest free isp and will continue to be for long time. It's the owner of the wireless routers job to protect their own network. If they can't they should have someone who knows how to do it for them. Just like it's the ISP's job to take care of their own network and set the ground rules. Interesting, so if someone takes my car because i forgot to lock it and is used it in bank robbery, police should take my car away from me? It's same thing, holdong grandmother accountable for something that she didn't do is just wrong. | |
|  |  |  |  |   ISPvsP2P
@rr.com
| Re: OK... No, in that case, the person who stole the car would get in trouble because they had taken something that wasn't theirs and used it for malicious purposes on top of it. Where as in this case it would be the person downloading/uploading the content that wasn't there's that would be busted. Now if it's being done on another persons connection without their knowledge, yes it is bad but it does happen. I think a person who didn't do anything wrong would stand a better chance in court with the argument that "they didn't know" if they actually can prove they had taken steps to prevent that. The biggest catch here would be catching the real offender. To be honest with you I think it all boils down to that they have to sue someone and if all they can get is to who's connection it is than it would be bad. NAT poses a big problem with this situation I think since you can't tell the real source of the downloading. | |
|  |  |  |  Lazlow
join:2006-08-07 Saint Louis, MO | ISPvsP2P
So where do you put the liability for cable modem spoofing? | |
|  |  |  |  |   ISPvsP2P
@rr.com
| Re: OK... said by Lazlow :ISPvsP2P So where do you put the liability for cable modem spoofing? Networking in general. That's just the way it is. Although I would think it would take some work to spoof the mac address on a cable modem not the device connected to it as that's what's used to get someone on a cable network in the first place. I would hope the ISP would have some protection against Mac spoofing but if they don't, yes this could pose a major issue. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  Lazlow
join:2006-08-07 Saint Louis, MO
| Re: OK... It is relatively easy to modify a modem to allow for cable modem spoofing or one can buy them premodified. Here is the one that has gotten the most press:
»www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/0···-hacker/
So far there is no real defense that the ISPs have come up with that is not easily sidestepped. | |
|  |  |  |  Pv8man
join:2008-07-24 Hammond, IN
| yeah but cracking WEP can be just as easy as searching on youtube how to crack it.
and WPA and WPA2 also (Depending on how complex the password is and how many characters)
I'm sorry but there are just too many variables and scenarios that need to be thought out.
they cannot and will not start the injustice of booting people without due process of law.
The entertainment industry is NOT above the law, they are under it like everybody else.
Thus they must follow the rule of law.
If they keep doing these things, hackers around the world will continually wage war against them, and will inevitably crush them.
just like the whole Climate-gate event.
Hackers = Modern Age Freedom Fighters | |
|  |  |  |  |   Simba7
join:2003-03-24 Billings, MT
·Bresnan Online
| Re: OK... said by Pv8man :yeah but cracking WEP can be just as easy as searching on youtube how to crack it. and WPA and WPA2 also (Depending on how complex the password is and how many characters) With number cruncher cards like the nVidia Tesla and Fermi, it wouldn't take very long to crack 'em. -- Bresnan 15M/1M|MyWS[P4HT@4.01GHz,2GB RAM,2x1TB HDDs,Win7]|WifeWS[P4@2.4GHz,1GB RAM,60GB HDD,Win7]|Router[2xP3@1GHz,640MB RAM,18GB HDD,Allied Telesyn AT-2560FX,Kingston KNE100TX,2xDigital DE504,Compaq NC3131,iPro/1000DP,Blitz BWI715,Gentoo Linux] | |
|  |  |  |  Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26 Spring Valley, CA
| said by ISPvsP2P :said by silentlooker :So you say that you're okay with isp cutting people off. What do you say when a grandmother gets cut off because someone used her wireless router that was totally unlocked or was locked with wep. Linksys is the biggest free isp and will continue to be for long time. It's the owner of the wireless routers job to protect their own network. If they can't they should have someone who knows how to do it for them. Just like it's the ISP's job to take care of their own network and set the ground rules. How deep of the level or responsibility do you want people to get to in order for someone to say, "yup, you did everything right, but it's still your fault." and not be responsible? This happens more times than not. I can wardrive in my neighborhood and leech wifi all day long, spoof a mac, crack a wep in under 30 seconds and viola, I've got free wi-fi and no one is the wiser.
Oh, they found kiddie porn emanating from your IP, but you can't prove you did it or if you've been spoofed/wep hacked? To bad. Oh, hey, by the way, we also found that you've been going to torrent sites and downloading movies and music and sharing them illegally too. What a coincidence. What do you say to that Mr. Responsibility?
At some point in time, in this digital age where copies anything can be made any time and anywhere, there needs to be an acknowledgment that peoples responsibilities to perceived illegalities must end somewhere. | |
|  |   Anon_X
@genext.net
| Ok, so your ok if you are accused of illegal downloading and cut you off the internet with no real proof whatsoever?
Why should it be ok for an ISP to be policing their customers when they are under no law to be doing so?
What about the parents who's kids are the ones mostly using the internet and the actual father/mother gets accused of such illegal downloading?
So if the riaa and mpaa were to set up spy people in neighborhoods or anywhere so they could catch people who lend others CDs and DVDs so they could rip (steal) music and movies you would be alright with that huh?
You must be in the pockets of the riaa & mpaa to support their crazy methods of accusing people of illegal downloading! | |
|  |  |   ISPvsP2P
@rr.com
| Re: OK... Never said that I'd be for it without proof. Obviously it would be smart for them to have proof before doing any action.
As for the parents, watching what their kids are doing when they're online might be a good idea. Interesting question you ask there. If I had to take a guess, it's the person on the bill that gets fined for it but I'm not 100% sure on that.
Yes I'd be OK with it. If you don't have anything to hide then you won't be afraid of getting caught.
This last thing made me laugh a little. I wish. Probably would make good money doing it but I'm happy with my current job.  | |
|  |  |  |  chronoss2009 Premium join:2008-09-23
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: OK... said by ISPvsP2P :Never said that I'd be for it without proof. Obviously it would be smart for them to have proof before doing any action. As for the parents, watching what their kids are doing when they're online might be a good idea. Interesting question you ask there. If I had to take a guess, it's the person on the bill that gets fined for it but I'm not 100% sure on that. Yes I'd be OK with it. If you don't have anything to hide then you won't be afraid of getting caught. This last thing made me laugh a little. I wish. Probably would make good money doing it but I'm happy with my current job. well if arresting people in a movie theatre fo rhaving a birthday and facing 2-3 years in prison is where its going ill say this
might as well join a gang or maffia yourselves and do more of this at least make it worth it for the time you get all of you. like OMG hes got a music tune and OMG your in for manslaughter
a few tunes and your same boat nice | |
|  |  |  SnowyOne Premium join:2003-04-05 Kailua, HI
·RoadRunner Cable
·Clearwire Wireless
| said by Anon_X :
Ok, so your ok if you are accused of illegal downloading and cut you off the internet with no real proof whatsoever?
The roadrunner browser notification appears to address the issue of SERVING UP copyrighted material. One of us is in the wrong thread. | |
|  |  |  |   ISPvsP2P
@rr.com
| Re: OK... Good point but I think his comment was about how there still be no proof of who "actually" was doing the wrong doing. It just proves that it's coming from that connection. So I'd say if there's a router or firewall involved with NAT, you're screwed because there's no way to prove the LAN IP of the machine or whether the machine was one that got access to the LAN via unsecured wireless. | |
|  |  |  axus
join:2001-06-18 Washington, DC | It's too bad we can't have the "beyond a reasonable doubt" protection for everything. It's the danger of depending on 1 or 2 big corporations for something you use every day. | |
|  |  Kearnstd Elf Wizard Premium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ
| also do they keep a database or flag an account with something that a normal CAE cant just remove?
because i know with how hard service CAEs are pushed to get sales nowdays, a third strike block on someone's account if it could be clicked off to gain a sale it would be because customer support CAEs are pretty much told get sales at all costs. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|   MrMaster What If Premium join:2000-12-16 Austin, TX clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| i got that I posted that a few months ago here when I got it within a few hours of new cable internet service.
I still think it was from the Beatles. Haven't had any problems since. -- One never notices what has been done; one can only see what remains to be done. -Marie Curie | |
|   gatorkram Spelling and Grammer impared Premium join:2002-07-22 Winterville, NC clubs:
·Embarq Now Century..
·linode
| Get out of my packets
I pay for a connection to the internet, period.
If I want to break the law with it, then that is on me, not my network provider.
If you want to look at my packets, get a warrant.
Further, if I break the law with my internet connection, you have no right to boot me from your network. A judge might order me not to use the internet, but it sure isn't my ISPS job to make that decision.
My money pays for the network, and paid to buy all that equipment they use, and to boot me, would also be criminal.
Do we have to sue our ISPs now, to keep service? -- Give me bandwidth or give me death! »/testhistory/661871/4f240 | |
|  |  See 10 replies to this post | |
  squirrel83 cheers
join:2005-05-02 Missoula, MT | who is forcing this Here is my deal who is Forcing the ISPs to do this? Where is the law? I think people are just freaking out and just playing follow the leader deal in fear that they would become responsible. I think its absolute shit . . . | |
|  |   knightmb Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01 Franklin, TN
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: who is forcing this said by squirrel83 :Here is my deal who is Forcing the ISPs to do this? Where is the law? I think people are just freaking out and just playing follow the leader deal in fear that they would become responsible. I think its absolute shit . . . No where. As an ISP, I get these letters all the time. I laugh a little, then through them away. Nothing has happened yet and I don't expect it ever will until there *really* is a law for them to fall back on.  -- Fight Insight Ready (Was NebuAD) and the like: Click Here to pollute their data | |
|   r81984 Fair and Balanced Premium join:2001-11-14 Katy, TX
·magicjack.com
·Cox HSI
| Legally Legally you are not guilty of anything, so why should ISPs trust a total strangers word that a crime was committed and punish their paying customers?
If the RIAA, MPAA or anyone wants anything to be done to a user of an IP then they need to get a court order after they have convince a judge that a crime might have been committed. The judge can then order an ISP to identify the user and let the user defend themselves. Unless someone is guilty in a court of law the ISP should not do anything and they should not be obligated to do anything by some BS law.
The RIAA and MPAA should just be happy that some ISPs voluntarily will pass on a letter or email to the end user warning them to stop. -- Republicans: less fiscally conservative than that other party. | |
|  |   MooJohn
join:2005-12-18 Milledgeville, GA
| Re: Legally said by r81984 :...why should ISPs trust a total strangers word that a crime was committed and punish their paying customers? Exactly!! Just because some company says that this IP at this date was "infringing", what makes that true? What makes it actionable enough to warrant disconnecting an account?
Just because one kid on the playground claims another kid said a bad word doesn't make it true. -- John M - Cranky network guy | |
|  JasonBourne
join:2000-05-22 Kansas City, MO
| Which is it??? However, Cox tells us that's a miniscule portion of their userbase -- as in less than one-tenth of 1% of all Cox users.
Of course none of this is going to stop piracy. ISPs have been sending out warning letters since earlier this decade, and piracy simply exploded
I'm struggling to see how "one-tenth of 1% of all Cox users" ends up with the result that "piracy simply exploded".
Maybe COX users are just more well-behaved than other ISP's users. | |
|  |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02 | Re: Which is it??? It's a minuscule portion of their userbase they actually wind up booting from the network. I'll clarify that... | |
|   Simba7
join:2003-03-24 Billings, MT
·Bresnan Online
1 edit | Ahh.. 2 more ISPs which bow to the almighty RIAA/MPAA. There's 2 I can cross off my "Good ISP" list and add to my "no chance in hell" list.. Looks like it'll be a matter of time before most of the ISPs let the RIAA/MPAA boss them around.
By then, the internet will be just a largely policed state. Give it a few more years, then the internet will be mostly full of encrypted packets.
..that's if there's an internet left. Here comes "The Great Firewall". -- Bresnan 15M/1M|MyWS[P4HT@4.01GHz,2GB RAM,2x1TB HDDs,Win7]|WifeWS[P4@2.4GHz,1GB RAM,60GB HDD,Win7]|Router[2xP3@1GHz,640MB RAM,18GB HDD,Allied Telesyn AT-2560FX,Kingston KNE100TX,2xDigital DE504,Compaq NC3131,iPro/1000DP,Blitz BWI715,Gentoo Linux] | |
|  chronoss2009 Premium join:2008-09-23 | Blank MEDIA LEVY i dont give a crap anyhting media = on my cdrs piss off you get 26 cents anyone paying full price is a complete idiot plain and simple and thats the crunch people dont like being told they IS/ARE stupid | |
|   Anonymous_ Anonymous Premium join:2004-06-21 127.0.0.1 clubs: 1 edit | work around: Usenet
or direct download are great thanks to RS ho-file megaupload ,deposit files etc.... and they are much faster then torrent etc.... | |
|  |  geowil
join:2008-04-20 Laveen, AZ
·Qwest.net
·Cox HSI
| Re: work around: not really.
Actually in many cases torrenting is faster for me usually.
I can download belach/NS torrents in about 3 minutes (average dl spedd for those is around 850 kbps) depending on the seeders.
While similar size files take 8 to 13 minutes from Megaupload, and 20 minutes+ from rapidcrap.
If you do not pay at those kind of dl services, you dont get very good speeds, Megaupload is better then RS is, on RS i never get above 350 kbps on my dls, but at mega at least i am able to hit between 950 kbps and 2.3 mbps usually.
FileFront is pretty good for me, I get constant 850kbps to 1.5 mbps speeds.
torrent speeds depend on the seeders and their willingness to crack that upload speed setting up. If your going after an old or unpopular torrent, it may take a while. -- Speedtest.net: 27759KB/s Down 538kb/s Up | |
|   Anony_mous
@comcast.net
| LOL.. quote: and then go download a pirated CAM of 2012.
Why bother with a crappy CAM, there are several great R5 Line versions of 2012 out now...  | |
|   COMMAN Plug Me In
join:2000-07-17 Mount Juliet, TN
·Vonage
·Comcast
·Embarq Now Century..
| Where does the fault REALLY lie? I'm CERTAINLY not a fan of the existing Major Labels - they got too greedy and have always taken advantage of the artists, but....
I really believe we will wake up someday, probably not too far in the future, when there will be no more recorded music, no more films, perhaps no more books, because these great artists can no longer make a living doing what they love and do so well. I know I wouldn't spend my life working without a paycheck, and I seriously doubt if ANYONE reading this would either.
Just because it's out there doesn't make it OK to have the mentality of "I'm gonna get me some of that". There are people walking down the street with $500 in their pockets - are you gonna grab your .45 and go get you some of that too? Where do you draw the line? Stealing is stealing, regardless if it's a major label song, an indie release, a major movie, or a stranger's money. If it was supposed to be paid for and you got it for free, someone got hurt, be it loss of wages or loss of life - is this the great society our forefathers fought and died for?
Sure, the recording and entertainment industries need a new business model and new practices, and filing lawsuits and cutting off someone's internet should not be the answer, but taking what you don't have a legal right to is not the answer either. Let's face it, if nobody was stealing, there would be no discussion of ISP's putting there eyeballs in our packets. -- Broadcasting TO the people, FOR the people, BY the people - INTERNET RADIO! | |
|  |   Boohoo
@comcast.net
| Re: Where does the fault REALLY lie? You do know that people work minimum wage for lamer jobs than making music and movies. I am sure what ever the price they are paid artist will still work because they love what they do.
I hate this argument. I am sure Tom Scientology Cruise could act in a movie with the same conviction if he was making $6 an hour or $100,000 an hour. | |
|  |   ISPvsP2P
@rr.com | I like your point of view. | |
|  chronoss2009 Premium join:2008-09-23
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| riiiiiight actors and musicans are all innocent said by Boohoo :
You do know that people work minimum wage for lamer jobs than making music and movies. I am sure what ever the price they are paid artist will still work because they love what they do.
I hate this argument. I am sure Tom Scientology Cruise could act in a movie with the same conviction if he was making $6 an hour or $100,000 an hour. sorry until i start seeing musicians rally large and actors against the wholesale slaughter of the youth into criminal justice system THEY ALL ARE GUILTY of crimes against humanity | |
|   a101
@cox.net
from: aefstoggaflm 
| abuse of power If I were employed by MPAA or RIAA and let's say that my wife was having an affair with someone. How hard would it be for me to fake a claim that this guy was infringing, fire off notification to his ISP on 3 consecutive months, effectively getting him disconnected without any legal oversight whatsoever? I doubt it's even illegal for "me" to fake the claims in the first place.
The problem with all of this 3 strikes non-sense, is that it lacks judicial oversight and God forbid, DUE PROCESS. If there was judicial oversight, faking a claim would amount to perjury and that would be a deterrent to the sort of abuse outlined above. If I was an MPAA or RIAA employee, I could fake these claims with only my job at stake, if there is no due process. If there is due process, then potentially my freedom is at stake, if I fake claims.
I've seen this sort of abuse in the past. Witness the guy selling fully legal surplus down-rev Autocad software on eBay, that was eventually banned from eBay because Autodesk mounted a campaign to file repeated complaints with eBay that the software he was selling, was pirated. He fought and won reinstatement several times until he was eventually banned permanently. Ebay's decision was essentially, that it's cheaper to lose this one guy's business, than to investigate and adjudicate each claim made by Autodesk, against this guy. Yeah, that's justice. I can see that we're going down that same road here, with "three strikes".
O.O. | |
|  rhf
join:2004-11-24 Davis, CA
·DSL EXTREME
·AT&T DSL Service
| Copyright clause ignored by big corps... Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of the United States Constitution, empowers the United States Congress: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."
Let's see:
It promotes Intellectual Property (IP) rights to promote the progress of science and useful arts...not corporate profit.
It secures for limited times...I doubt they had in mind 99 years, etc. copyrights.
It secures exclusive rights to authors...not their heirs after the authors are dead!
Copyright law in the US simply doesn't reflect what the Constitution allows. So pirate as protest! | |
|   Augustus III If Only Rome Could See Us Now....
join:2001-01-25 Gainesville, GA
| oh dear A lot of paid cronies roam these forums. Most of them are already retired, and pissed they cant figure out what is even going on.
so lets get to how you people REALLY feel:
not paying for music you wouldnt buy anyway = child porn
remember kids, when you dont pay to listen to tranny gaga's latest synthesized track, a child is abused somewhere in the world.
when you watch twilight, a kitten is murdered in cold blood in latin america.
think of the children and kitties, you pervert downloaders!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you are destroying society!!!
the riaa has been screaming foul for 12 years now but you would think they realized by now that people will buy something if they want. those who get it for free, wouldnt pay for it anyway because they never wanted it bad enough in the first place. | |
|  |  See 8 replies to this post | |
  Ioweyou
@comcast.net | Sending/receiving copyrighted files... And just who is it that determines a file is 'copyrighted' anyway? I could download a file from my boss named, janiedoesdallas.xyz and it may only be sales quotas that a woman named Jane who works for me made while covering the Dallas area. | |
|   Trinijoy Premium join:2005-09-12 Brick, NJ | LOl you people are funny... I bet half of you who fight against piracy and make yourself sound all smart in your writing, pirate anyway. You people make me laugh. Admit your crap, don't make yourself look good. | |
|  |   ISPvsP2P
@rr.com | LOl you people are funny... Lost that bet as far as I go. What do I win? | |
|  crese24
join:2007-12-27 | Why? Why are ISPs doing this? Don't they realize that booting off paying customers equals less income? | |
|  |  SuperWISP
join:2007-04-17 Laramie, WY
| Re: Why? said by crese24 :Why are ISPs doing this? Don't they realize that booting off paying customers equals less income? Perhaps it's because most ISPs are ethical, law-abiding citizens who don't want to be in the position of enabling crime -- and that's more important than a couple of extra dollars. | |
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