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ISPs Serving as Gatekeepers Not Gateways
Have you read the fine print in your ISP contract?
It’s no secret that ISPs make their Terms of Service lengthy and complicated to understand; recent Verizon TOS changes highlight that fact. Taking issue with this situation, The Associated Press recently went through the detailed process of combing through the fine print in contracts from the top ten ISP providers. What they found was that ISPs retain the right to control most facets of your Internet use should they desire to do so.
quote:
"The network is asserting almost complete control of the users' ability to use their network as a gateway to the Internet," said Marvin Ammori, general counsel of Free Press, a Washington-based consumer advocacy group. "They become gatekeepers rather than gateways."
Furthermore, just looking at your contract closely once doesn’t mean that you’re going to know what it’s all about since most ISPs reserve the right to make TOS changes with little more than a website announcement about the news. Some people argue that the complicated fine print is designed to protect the company legally and typically wouldn’t be used against the average ISP customer. They won’t really read your email like the contracts say they can. Right; just like they won’t throttle your use unless you abuse their system.
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Buttset
join:2001-11-12
Ladson, SC

Buttset

Member

Duh!

...and it's going to only get worse...

jonnyb
join:2008-03-15
Haverhill, NH

jonnyb

Member

got to have some kind of guidlines

These ISP's have to have some kind of guidelines or a few morons will screw up the network and make other paying customers suffer because of what they are doing. In saying that i am glad that the isp's are throttling connections what they need to do is just put a cap on the service and if you go over the cap you pay through the @-- like some companies already do then there is no mystery.
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

jjeffeory

Member

Re: got to have some kind of guidlines

There are "guidelines" and then there a "Screw jobs". Fascism is here. The average guy doesn't have a chance!

jonnyb
join:2008-03-15
Haverhill, NH

jonnyb

Member

Re: got to have some kind of guidlines

it is what it is why are peeps makeing such a big fuss its all for nothing isp's rule the world and noone can stop them....
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

1 edit

jjeffeory

Member

Re: got to have some kind of guidlines

Well, broaden that to many of the ultra large big businesses and you're correct. I don't mind a TOS that is reasonable and people can understand. I don't mind one that doesn't change all of the time. A business deal is supposed to be a two-way deal. In this case, they supply the pipe, and we pay them for that supply.

Remember, there were some wars around 80-100 years ago and some big players we facists.... Italy, Spain, etc... History repeating itself.

root9
join:2005-04-08
Kitchener, ON

1 edit

root9 to jonnyb

Member

to jonnyb
... NOT so! Here in Canada we have laws and regulations. Even though Rogers, Bell and Verizon has broken them it is up to ALL if us to charge them, take them to court and get reimbursed for such unlawful activities.

Rogers, Bell and Verizon declared WAR on all Canadian Internet Users and smaller then them businesses so we are fighting back.

Please read and learn: »www.p2pnet.net/story/15479
and »www.michaelgeist.ca/index.php
and »www.cata.ca/Communities/ ··· 408.html

We will be drafting a general letter that users can send to every ISP, law agency, courts, regulatory body etc. stating such circumstances are unacceptable & illegal and to cease and desist all such illegal activity.

NYDude25
join:2007-08-23
Massapequa, NY

NYDude25 to jonnyb

Member

to jonnyb
Totally agree, as long as they state in their advertising what those caps will be, and how much they will charge if you go over the cap.

justbits
DSL is dead. Long live DSL!
Premium Member
join:2003-01-08
Chicago, IL

1 edit

justbits

Premium Member

"They wont really read your email..."

It depends on what you consider "read" to be. They already do "read" your email to collect anonymous data. The anonymous data they collect in their SPAM filters to analyze the content of your email helps them filter out other SPAM you may get and in some cases, helps them get higher prices for advertising to their customers. The web site you use to view your email can use "anonymized" content analyzers to provide relevant advertising to you. That's what Gmail supposedly does.

rit56
join:2000-12-01
New York, NY

rit56

Member

Re: "They wont really read your email..."

a bit more filtering would be nice. how about ISP's starting to be a bit more aggressive with the words "penis", "viagra". I still get a ton of stuff with those words in the heading. It amazes me...

jonnyb
join:2008-03-15
Haverhill, NH

jonnyb

Member

Re: "They wont really read your email..."

You are getting those emails for a REASON my friend, do the math.
maxpower90
join:2006-10-09
Providence, RI

maxpower90

Member

Re: "They wont really read your email..."

said by jonnyb:

You are getting those emails for a REASON my friend, do the math.
Ahhhhhhahahahaha. Thank you for making me laugh.
Gardener
Premium Member
join:2006-10-19
Burnaby, BC

1 recommendation

Gardener

Premium Member

The end of the world

Global warming, bird flu, or lawyers?
Pictor Guy
join:2004-06-21
Sammamish, WA

Pictor Guy

Member

Liability

At what point will we go before there are so much restrictions that the ISP makes themselves liable for users actions. If users become reasonably accustomed to ISPs policing their own traffic wouldn't a "reasonable" (legal speak) person expect that the ISP would stop little Billy from providing pirated software? Could this lead to a RIAA/MPAA suit against Bill's Mom or Dad and Mom or Dad counter suit against the ISP? I know this is not likely but that's where it seems we are heading.

As for reading email... they have every right to do so as long as it's needed for the normal operation of their mail servers. That is assuming that they didn't outsource the mail service to a third party or unless the ISP is a government agency.

dr3yec
join:2002-12-19
00000

1 edit

dr3yec

Member

Re: Liability

Or so much restrictions that internet is just horrible. I am really considering giving up my pc's. The isp's are making the net very unattractive. I lived many years with out it. I surely can do it again. Internet is more than checking email and surfing the net. Sometimes I wonder if I live in china or America.
Pictor Guy
join:2004-06-21
Sammamish, WA

1 recommendation

Pictor Guy

Member

Re: Liability

said by dr3yec:

Sometimes I wonder if I live in china or America.
That's an easy one. Just walk into a local department store and see where things are made.

Devils Advocate
@dsl.bell.ca

Devils Advocate to Pictor Guy

Anon

to Pictor Guy
The ironic part of restriction is it that it's SUPPOSED TO make the provider MORE liable for users' actions. The more control you exercise over content, the more "aware" you need to be OF that content. Therefore, you end up in the position of "you KNEW what you were ALLOWING".

Knowing that, I'm a little confused as to why Bell would invite that scenario. Oh, wait a minute, I forgot!... Bell is above the law, as they've been proving all along.

Don't forget, the MPAA and RIAA already approached Bell (and others, including the RCMP), about (what the MAFIAA perceives is) the providers' supposed DUTY to help combat piracy, involving turning over all sorts of user data (IP addresses, specific download activity, user names and addresses, source servers, etc.) to law enforcement, and the ENTERTAINMENT authorities, ON DEMAND!

Shortly after that, Bell put out a notice of a change to their TOS, stating, off all things, they were reserving the right to "cooperate with law enforcement needs". Basically, the customers were told that their personal info and user data ARE SUBJECT to this.

Not long after, came the throttling of BitTorrent and P2P.

This was followed by the news that there are MAFIAA-sanctioned media download sites in the works (think "bandwidth"), and the providing networks would be given "incentives" to participate.

It would be interesting to know what method of file transfer these sites are going to promote to facilitate the downloading of large video files, and how that form of "bandwidth hogging" will be any different than the one they used to "justify" the present throttling.

As far as READING e-mail goes...
Providers DO NOT have any right to actually read your e-mail. They only have the implied "responsibility" to process the headers, in order to attempt to filter spam out of the equation as much as possible.

Yes, content can be scanned by software/algorithms for spam elements, but that's not considered "reading", as it's not done by a human.

I'm not saying a human will never read your e-mail, but such an occurrence would (should) not be due to any "deliberate scrutiny" of the user's personal activity.

This kind of thing, I'm sure, will be included in the coming rebellion over "net neutrality".

(No, I am not a server admin, or anything like that, or anyone that works for a provider. I don't know why "@bell.ca" appears under my name. You couldn't pay me enough to work for Bell, that's for sure! I am a Sympatico user.)
: )
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Sammer

Member

More proof they should just be dumb pipes!

They just keep shooting themselves in their feet providing more proof that there will eventually have to be a law relegating them to just being dumb pipes. That will always be what's best for the consumer!

POB
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium Member
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA

1 recommendation

POB

Premium Member

Hello...Fact Checking Please!

[...]most ISPs reserve the right to make TOS changes with little more than a website announcement about the news.
Using the AP as any kind of definitive source on anything is always a bad idea as evidenced by the above referenced statement. At best, the information barely scratches the surface. Further, if the DSLR writer of the byline bothered to conduct any kind of basic checking whatsoever, then s/he would have determined that mere website notification of any new changes in the TOS contract has been previously ruled as insufficient by the Ninth Circuit.

supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL

1 recommendation

supergirl

Member

Re: Hello...Fact Checking Please!

said by POB:
[...]most ISPs reserve the right to make TOS changes with little more than a website announcement about the news.
Using the AP as any kind of definitive source on anything is always a bad idea as evidenced by the above referenced statement. At best, the information barely scratches the surface. Further, if the DSLR writer of the byline bothered to conduct any kind of basic checking whatsoever, then s/he would have determined that mere website notification of any new changes in the TOS contract has been previously ruled as insufficient by the Ninth Circuit.
I hate to break it to you but the news are usually a bunch of recent college grads on a mission. They don't make much money but it is a cause. If Bush was impeached, the NY Times staff would be so drunk they couldn't put out a newspaper the next day. Serious journalism has disappeared in lieu of news that make you feel good (or bad). Little Jessica fell into a well because he mom was in the house banging the cable guy, but let's spend 36 hours covering the hole she's in then 360 hours analyzing how they got her out. "It was dangerous for us (the trained rescue workers that can save people off of a boat in a hurricane but can't make it down a well)." "The girl was just covered in mud and crying." Gee, really? I thought she'd come out and say, "I'm so grateful they saved me so I can continue my toddlership with my goal of being President, er, winning American Idol." Of course, every year we have to relive Princess Diana's death. Gee, Elton John got over it, why can't you? News has become stupid because America has become stupid. If you differ, why do we have plastic shoes? America decides a President based on his appearance. You can't be too slick just ask Mitt Romney and John Edwards.

POB
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium Member
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA

POB

Premium Member

Re: Hello...Fact Checking Please!

said by supergirl:

I hate to break it to you but the news are usually a bunch of recent college grads on a mission.
Which only goes to underscore that the AP is useless.

Snowy
Lock him up!!!
Premium Member
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI

Snowy

Premium Member

Re: Hello...Fact Checking Please!

said by POB:

said by supergirl:

I hate to break it to you but the news are usually a bunch of recent college grads on a mission.
Which only goes to underscore that the AP is useless.
I'd agree they fall somewhere between useless & perfect.

funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

1 recommendation

funchords to POB

MVM

to POB
said by POB:

Further, if the DSLR writer of the byline bothered to conduct any kind of basic checking whatsoever, then s/he would have determined that mere website notification of any new changes in the TOS contract has been previously ruled as insufficient by the Ninth Circuit.
Aren't you "Mr. Perfect." I consider myself pretty well informed, and I live in the 9th District. But I didn't know that fact, either.

Comcast did exactly that on January 25th -- posted a new TOS without any notice to customers, whatsoever. I had a "Change Detection" plug-in running, so I noticed. I quietly waited about 10 days, then I turned it over to the guys at Free Press (et. al.) since the changes primarily involved their Sandvine interference. Once caught, of course, Comcast lied about it -- telling the press that "Millions" of customers noticed it because of front-page notices seen when they logged on to the www.Comcast.net website. Google cache had the evidence to the contrary, though.

(I did finally get a mailed copy sometime in mid or late March.)

JeffMD
join:2002-08-16
Edgewater, FL

JeffMD

Member

o well

I dont care if my isp really wants to filter stuff... it should know the first time it filters something that effects me.. im changing ISPs. There is NOTHING that ties me to my current provider.