 moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | Oh my...... Guess this is a good enough case against off shore tech support.
Wonder what would happen to a US company that had this kind of security breach.  | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: Oh my...... said by moonpuppy  :Wonder what would happen to a US company that had this kind of security breach. Absolutely nothing. Granted in this situation, Indians engaging in illegal activity were prosecuted, but Citibank wasn't held accountable for the problems it caused its customers in the USA. These sorts of crimes cost banks nothing because they are able to force the merchants involved to eat the bogus charges.
Of course, innocent victims of such fraud could face serious problems, even after the bank has resolved the problem for itself. Until laws are passed which ban banks from moving customer data outside of this country, this sort of problem will just get worse.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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rachelsfx
join:2004-09-27
Pensacola, FL | Re: Oh my...... If they know, which now they do, yes, a person defrauded could hold them liable. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
edit:
October 6th, @10:23AM
| Re: Oh my...... said by rachelsfx :If they know, which now they do, yes, a person defrauded could hold them liable. Meanwhile, the person defrauded might be out of a house, job or have no assets with which to pursue such a claim because the fraud robbed them of the ability to acquire such things. Said person might not even be able to drive to the courthouse because they could not afford higher car insurance premiums which poor credit scorers must pay.
I've always believe that banks are far more powerful than the US Government when it comes to restrictions on citizens. At least if the government screws up you have some recourse and a presumption of innocence. When a bank screws up, you not only have to prove the bank screwed up, but while you are trying to prove it, you might be subject to many problems due to a fraudulently bad credit rating.
The current legal system offers banks no incentive to correct these problems. Until such fraud actually hits banks' bottom line, there will be no fix.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
| | | | | BarneyBadAss
Badasses Fight For Freedom
Premium
join:2004-05-07
00001 | Re: Oh my...... A short stint (say 30+ years) in a Super Max correctional facility might do the trick!!!
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---Barney | |
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guitarzan
"Ok World, now PUSH... I see the horns
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
 ·epix
| Pnh102, I agree with you my friend.
In addition to banking institutes, this law should apply to ANY American company or corporations outsourcing detailed records to call centers or other 3rd party sources whether overseas or here at home.
In the Citibank example cited. They should be criminally and financially accountable, not only for their own (in)actions yet also criminally and financially for the outsourced companies, for each and every security breach. Apply this equally to all businesses engaging in such outsourcing activity.
We use software/hardware firewalls, to safeguard this info. Yet, in order to conduct business, the cited example are "allowed" to shut our firewalls off.? That's not right.
--
Bass....the glue of rhythm and harmony...the heartbeat of the band.! Shaking the earth with deep,sonorous vibrations.The dark ominous thunder of an approching storm. | |
| | | | BarneyBadAss
Badasses Fight For Freedom
Premium
join:2004-05-07
00001
 ·Verizon FIOS
edit:
October 7th, @10:39AM
| Re: Oh my...... For what it's worth; (this is the truth)
I got a letter from "_insert_well_known_financial_instution_here" the other day.
Started off telling me that my SSN; Credit Card #; name and other personal information on a tape had been "Thrown out". It went on to say they had spent an enormous amount of resource; involving federal law enforcement and others trying to locate the missing tapes. They claim the tapes had been "compacted" and placed in a land fill. Although, it seems more likely the tape was tossed in the landfil and the compaction was likely from the "spikes" on the wheels of the compacting bulldozer.... but that's just my guess. The letter also offered a "free year of credit monitoring and some 5 digit amount of theft insurance". But to get the monitoring and insurance, I had to fill out a paper with litteraly everything in the clear then use snail mail and send it back using the included business reply letter... (just a minute I need to beat my head against the wall for a minute here...... Ahhhh.. that feels so much better  )
I had a very long converstation with some folks at this corporation. (I looked up the corporate phone # because I couldn't trust the data on paper, or is it with all the bogus documents (electronic / paper) floating around I felt safer making a long distance call to a listed corp. phone #).
My conversation started off; with the first person.. I asked one simple question, "was the data on the tape encrypted"?
This poor person had to wander all around to find out (I had to explain what encryption was so he could ask the questions) and he came back saying "DUH... I dunno".
I asked if this Co was so concerend about protecting my data why are they asking me to deliberatly put my data in the clear such that it could be lost / stolen / obtained by others not authorized, and got another "DOH" kind of answer.
So I requested to speak with this persons manager and a few minutes later I was connected to their manager. When I asked about encryption I got a "that is informaiton controlled by our security department and we don't release that data." Of course; I wasn't asking if they had used blowfish; AES; DES; TDES Symetrical or asymetrical keys or key-encrypting-key technology, just if it was encrypted.... same answer.... security department... then I asked them about the security issue of putting all my data back in the clear to mail it back and the manager said, "Look, you have two choices, if you want the free monitoring and insurance; fill out the form and send it back; if you don't want it, then don't fill out the form and don't send it back."
Of course this really bent me out of shape and I requested to go up another level of management. This persons manager returned my call and I asked the same sets of quesitons. This "manager" said they didn't know if the data was "encrypted" but they would find out and let me know.
Then we talked about the issue of them claiming how dedicated they were to protecting my data and ensuring it's privacy, yet asking me to fill out a paper with all the data on it in the clear and thus exposing me again... and should the mail get lost and not delivered on time; I'd not have the monitoring nor the finacial protection...
To this managers credit, they saw the discrepency with what they wrote and the action immediately and you could hear them going (sic) "Hmmmm... there's something really wrong with the letter and what we are asking our customers to do here".. Hmmmmm..???????
Nevertheless, this person went away and a few days later returned my call... saying that the company had decided they should simply enroll everyone and provide everyone the insurance and not need any data to be returned from the customer....
So.. there's a lot of this kind of nonsense going on these days and everyone needs to be dliligent and a little beligerant to make these comanies just "DO IT" and not ask... just get these folks entolled and insured..
--edit note; had to fix a few typeo-s (they come out of cans don't they )
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---Barney | |
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guitarzan
"Ok World, now PUSH... I see the horns
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
·epix
| Re: Oh my...... Glad to hear that the result of persistence worked out in your favor.
Barney, this is an excellent post and example of what's wrong with corporate America. One should not need to climb the ladder as high as you did to get favorable results.
In such an event, precautionary measures as you described should be addressed immediately by the company, with no inter-action required by affected clients.
Once the small "mom & pop" shops were put out of business, good customer relations and service went with them.
quote:
This poor person had to wander all around to find out (I had to explain what encryption was so he could ask the questions) and he came back saying "DUH... I dunno".
That would be funny, were it not true. That quote is a direct lack of direction, responsibility and leadership, starting from the top of the company right to the bottom. And it shows.
Maybe it's time BBR made a hall of shame posting forum, where people with true life experiences as yourself and others can expose corps. that leave customers exposed.
Post the companies names & addresses. Include the names of CEO's, the board of directors, stock or share holder names, who make boneheaded decisions, which compromise the clients security and the lack of respect shown toward clients.
if its a good experience, so be it, no sugar coating allowed. If its a horrible experience of clients security--then its a piss and vinegar post, warts and all.
Now is the time to nip this in the bud before it gets worse than it is. Take re-active steps from their inability of proper action and follow through. Post it all over the web from here to kingdom come and back. Then file lawsuits
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Bass....the glue of rhythm and harmony...the heartbeat of the band.! Shaking the earth with deep,sonorous vibrations.The dark ominous thunder of an approching storm. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| The simple way to fix the issues of credit card fraud and Identify theft would be to pass laws that transfer all liability and financial losses away from the victims (the customer and the merchants) and place that liability on the banks and credit issuers who aided (albeit unwittingly) in the fraud.
Quite simply, if all of the money stolen had to be returned to the victims, and the BANKS had to eat the losses, I'm willing to bet within 6 months transaction security would have been GREATLY increased and credit card fraud and identity theft rates would be massively decreased.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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rachelsfx
join:2004-09-27
Pensacola, FL | Well, at least they can read numbers.  | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| Re: Oh my...... said by Maxo :said by rachelsfx :Well, at least they can read numbers. Being Indian doesn't make you mentally retarded. Our number system is pretty well recognised around the world. "Our number system"?
-tom
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"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
·Embarq
| Re: Oh my...... said by nixen :said by Maxo :said by rachelsfx :Well, at least they can read numbers. Being Indian doesn't make you mentally retarded. Our number system is pretty well recognised around the world. " Our number system"? -tom Ok, ok. My number system. I refuse to take responsibility for anything that's ever happened, ever, except the numbering system.
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"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter
»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad
»maxolasersquad.com/
»maxolasersquad.com/network/ My DSL Network Guide
»myspace.com/mlsquad | |
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Toadman
How do you like these Apples
join:2001-11-28
Medina, OH
·Armstrong Zoom In..
| Re: Oh my...... said by Maxo :Ok, ok. My number system. I refuse to take responsibility for anything that's ever happened, ever, except the numbering system. You should of asked for royalties, that was your first mistake! | |
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operagost
join:1999-08-02
Phoenixville, PA
| Re: Oh my...... Er... the Pyramids were not designed for everyday use-- in fact, they were (unsuccessfully) booby trapped against invaders. That being said, you might want to take a trip to Egypt some time because there a quite a few pyramids standing like, I dunno, the Great Pyramind of Khufu? | |
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Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
| Re: Oh my...... said by operagost :Er... the Pyramids were not designed for everyday use-- in fact, they were (unsuccessfully) booby trapped against invaders. That being said, you might want to take a trip to Egypt some time because there a quite a few pyramids standing like, I dunno, the Great Pyramind of Khufu? Been there done that. The Pyramids where just the center pieces of a temple complex, they are still impressive but are not in the condition of the Hindu temples in southern India. While the Pyramid's support structures, temples, living quarters, and kitchens are all but gone.
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The older I get the more I prefer the company of my dogs over that of man kind. | |
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rachelsfx
join:2004-09-27
Pensacola, FL | What I meant:
They can't fix things wrong with most American's computers is what I meant. So, it is good they can read numbers. | |
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Oleg
Bellsouth Fastaccess
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL | I can't find the video. | |
| Jonbo298
join:2004-01-12
Council Bluffs, IA | But it saves money!! Remember how companies said it would save money? I guess it was to save the cash for when lawsuits will start coming. | |
| | dogo88
join:2001-09-24
Old Bridge, NJ | Re: But it saves money!! Exactly! You get what you pay for. | |
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N3OGH
They both suck, we're so screwed
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Jonbo298 :Remember how companies said it would save money? I guess it was to save the cash for when lawsuits will start coming. Only way to force them NOT to do it..
I used to have an AMEX card. First time I had to call customer service and got India, I cancelled it.
Just like Dell, AMEX talks bout their customer service, and then gives me someone who can barely speak english when I need help (and yeah, I know they teach English in the schools in India, so this person must have been a drop out, since they couldn't be understood by anyone who didn't speak her native tongue).
Cancelled my AMEX. For the most part, I just pay cash as I go now. I have an ATM card, but no debit card connected to my checking account.
I do have a MasterCard I keep for emergency's (Like the root canal I needed 2 weeks ago) and large purchases to get the double warranty they offer.
Wonder if I get a double warranty on the root canal 
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Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy | |
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N3OGH
They both suck, we're so screwed
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: But it saves money!! said by kapil :said by N3OGH :emergency's If you were to travel outside the 50 states, the rest of the English speaking world wouldn't understand you either. And I wasn't outside the United States, I was in Delaware.
If I travel outside the US, I make a point of learning the local language as much as I can. I am a visitor in another person's country, and it's the polite thing to do.
I do business with a US based Fortune 500, and pay $75 a year for the privilege, I expect the CSR to be intelligible when I call.
It's not too much to ask, and since AMEX thought it was, I voted with my dollar, and took it elsewhere..
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Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy | |
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Michieru
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | Re: But it saves money!! Well done. | |
| | | | | fldiver
Premium
join:1999-12-27
Jacksonville, FL | They just went to $85.00 per year, if you are referring to the Gold Amex.. | |
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Tsume
BOBBARR2008 .COM
join:2004-02-23
Vista, CA | At least he is not using his English to act like a snob. | |
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N3OGH
They both suck, we're so screwed
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: But it saves money!! said by Tsume :At least he is not using his English to act like a snob. If working 60 hours a week at 2 different jobs, and expecting good service when I spend my hard earned money makes me a snob, so be it.
I have NOTHING against any people of any decent or nationality. This has nothing to do with the location of the call center or the people staffing it.
It has to do with the death of customer service. Corporate America, has a whole, has abandoned customer service in pursuit of the all-mighty dollar.
If I called AMEX customer service, and the person was polite and intelligible, I wouldn't care that the call center was outside the US.
Conversely, if the call center was placed in the middle of New England, and I couldn't understand the person on the other end due to an overly thick accent, I would be just as miffed.
Especially with something like an AMEX card. You pay them for a service, nothing more. You get nothing physically for your money. Shit, even the damn card remains their property. If the service is bad, why keep it?
Resort to all the name calling you want. I work hard for a living, and if a company wants to earn my money, they'll have to work for it. If they do a poor job, I do the equivalent of firing them, and take my money elsewhere. If they do a good job, they get a loyal customer.
I thought that was how the free market was supposed to work....
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Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy | |
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Tsume
BOBBARR2008 .COM
join:2004-02-23
Vista, CA
 ·ViaTalk
·Cox HSI
| Re: But it saves money!! I was referring to the individual with a vendetta against the letter 'W'.
I dislike outsourced tech support, however due to personal finances I cannot vote with my dollar in the majority of cases.
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"True warriors do not follow paths, they make them. It is not just their desire, it is their nature." (Battletech) | |
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N3OGH
They both suck, we're so screwed
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: But it saves money!! said by Tsume :I was referring to the individual with a vendetta against the letter 'W'. I dislike outsourced tech support, however due to personal finances I cannot vote with my dollar in the majority of cases. I figured that out about 10 min *AFTER* my post. Sorry.
I've been a bit terse lately, work's been stressful.
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Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy | |
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CoxCable4
banned from most servers for cheating
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone | Re: But it saves money!! lol yeah, go to a mcdonalds where the menus are in both ingles and espanol | |
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Anon Y Mouse
@cox.net | Yeah, right. Now, based on that logic, I should stop visiting my local grocery store, stop getting my lawn mowed, keep my house dirty, basically end the way I'm living because I DON"T speak a word of Spanish! | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by N3OGH :Only way to force them NOT to do it.. I used to have an AMEX card. First time I had to call customer service and got India, I cancelled it. Yeah that works in SOME cases... but not in others, like when SBC moved their customer support offshore to India. I mean I guess I could just turn off my phone, DSL, etc but I kinda need them. Big mistake on their part tho. They pissed off so many customers with that crap.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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Fatal Vector
join:2005-11-26 | Re: But it saves money!!
Hmmm...Funny...I have NEVER gotten india on a call to SBC/AT&T except late at night. During the day, I ALLWAYS get an american, usually in little rock or St Louis. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: But it saves money!! SBC/AT&T is actually pulling back their support back to the USA because it was a disaster in India. | |
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See 9 replies to this post | |
richk_1957
If ..Then..Else
Premium
join:2001-04-11
Minas Tirith
| It was only a matter of time... Before this happened.
I remember when this off-shore thing first started, one of the reasons was security. They said 'your information will never be sold to anyone'. And besides, I don't believe there are any laws in India preventing this. Sure, there are international contracts, ethics, but when you come down to it, per that country's laws, this is not an illegal act. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| This is not news. What did people think was going to happen when companies from the civilized world starting giving all of our private data to indian companies?
The only good thing about this, is the lawsuit potential. If our data is sent to india, it will be stolen.(This is only a matter of time) So companies will have to weigh potential lawsuits and saving a few dollars an hour on employees vs hiring people from the countries they are in and not having all the security issues. | |
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guitarzan
"Ok World, now PUSH... I see the horns
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA | Re: This is not news. Looking at the bright side. Someone will have $50 million in assets transferred to their personal bank account | |
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paulhaskew
Unoffical Dominos Spokesman
join:2002-01-10
Vancouver, WA
clubs: | grrr ffs this is why I say we need to keep our personal info at home on our shores... period!
Its not going to prevent this, but certainly will reduce it... | |
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God
Having no fun in Vilseck Germany
Premium
join:2002-07-01
Taji, Iraq
clubs:
·T-Com
| Re: grrr said by paulhaskew :ffs this is why I say we need to keep our personal info at home on our shores... period! Its not going to prevent this, but certainly will reduce it... Maybe maybe not. But when you have that info stay in america at least you can legislate what the companies can and can not do or what sort of fines/punishments will be dished out if things happen. although if you have noticed with all of the lost laptops and hacked computer networks nothing happens in terms of punishment
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Currently stuck in a foreign country thanks to good old Uncle Sam, member of Cco 1/2 Stryker Cavalry Regiment. Sucks being attached to a cav unit when you are infantry =\ | |
| | | BarneyBadAss
Badasses Fight For Freedom
Premium
join:2004-05-07
00001
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: grrr said by God :said by paulhaskew :ffs this is why I say we need to keep our personal info at home on our shores... period! Its not going to prevent this, but certainly will reduce it... Maybe maybe not. But when you have that info stay in america at least you can legislate what the companies can and can not do or what sort of fines/punishments will be dished out if things happen. although if you have noticed with all of the lost laptops and hacked computer networks nothing happens in terms of punishment Naw.. that's why we need one world government 
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---Barney | |
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Indian Call Center Data For Sale?
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