 
Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
1 edit | Intentional? Thanks XP for being so safe out of the box. LOL "Out of the Box experience?" NOT
The sad thing is they were told and now we suffer with their huge mistake.
Yes, you buy MS's XP Operating System and now you have to be a security expert just to use it?
If XP were a car, you would have to be a Certified Mechanic to keep it running.  | |
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Steve32
join:2001-06-18
Phoenix, AZ
2 edits | Re: Intentional? said by Doctor Olds  :Thanks XP for being so safe out of the box. LOL "Out of the Box experience?" NOT You can't expect it to be safe out of the box when it's two years old and new workarounds comes out almost everyday. It was "semi" safe out of the box 2 years ago, today it is not. That's why it's supposed to be updated.
BTW, I just went to the site and with "out of the box" XP SP2 installed, I didn't get one popup or installed program. I call that a great out of the box XPerience.... for now at least 
said by Doctor Olds :If XP were a car, you would have to be a Certified Mechanic to keep it running no, you just need to hit the windows update button once a month. | |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| Re: Intentional? said by Steve32 :You can't expect it to be safe out of the box when it's two years old and new workarounds comes out almost everyday. Yes, you can and should. Otherwise you were ripped off by MS and their XP is faster and safer hype from 2 Years ago. It was never ready for retail even then. Do you have to apply workarounds to get your car to start? You missed that workaround on your brakes and ran into the back of the garage? LOL Workarounds are not something you should have to do to ANY OS. said by Steve32 : It was "semi" safe out of the box 2 years ago, today it is not. That's why it's supposed to be updated. So are you supposed to get updated air bags in two years because your two year old car didn't have them?? LOL You don't know how many people reinstall from an original XP CD when the kids or even the parents crash the system and those are not SP2 CDs, so in the real world Microsoft should ship XP to every owner and tell them to destroy the unsafe CD. And they should admit it wasn't ready when released as it is the most easily hacked OS to date from MS. Car manufacturers have to fix defects, but MS doesn't?? Baloney. Upgrades != Security Fixes. XP is not a secure OS. | |
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Apathy
Premium
join:2004-09-01
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Intentional? Your analogies are silly. Were I to use your logic, I'd say that yeah, I have to apply a workaround to get my car to start. That comes in the form of a mechanic doing preventive maintenance. My vehicle needs "updated" all the time - it's called an oil change.
Furthermore, I guess I should expect that the measures taken in 1970 that kept a vehicle from being stolen should still work today? Much like the car thieves who come up with new ways or take advantage of "holes" left by original design of a vehicle, crackers do the same with software. Therefore, redesigns are in order, as are updates.
It's really not that hard to do and you don't have to be a tech to do it. UPDATES ARE AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD... if a user finds this confusing, then maybe a computer is not for them. | |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| Re: Intentional? Maintenance is not an update. You know neither of OSes or Automobiles.
Can you download from GM an update to the Engine Computer so it accelerates faster and gets better mileage?? That would be an upgrade/update.
Changing the oil is maintenance. Do you remove the kernel from your OS and polish it then put it back for better performance?? Didn't think so. (unless you run *Nix)
Sounds very much like you fit the bill "as you describe it" for not owning a PC. | |
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Apathy
Premium
join:2004-09-01
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Intentional? It's your ridiculous logic/analogy, not mine. I won't argue over what maintenance or updates are..my point was that expecting any software developer to foresee every single threat is unrealistic. But nice try at changing the subject..
BTW It's amazing that you gleaned so much information on what I personally know from just one post. You should take your act to Vegas, they eat that shit up. | |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs: | Re: Intentional? Sensitive a bit? LOL | |
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Apathy
Premium
join:2004-09-01
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Intentional? Things to do when you can't debate your point.
1)Try to change the subject
2)Accuse the other person of being ignorant of anything knowledgeable by way of...psychic powers?
3)Use said psychic powers to ascertain the other person's emotional state-of-mind.
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| Re: Intentional? said by Apathy :Things to do when you can't debate your point. My points are valid and true, you are the "making up lists of inane subjects not related to the facts" poster. Now you are invisible too. 
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"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
~~Herbert Spencer~~ | |
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| | | | | | | | | Plldwnyrpnts
join:2003-04-19
Chicago, IL
| Re: Intentional? Your points aren't valid. Everything in life needs to be kept up. You leave it to rot, you end up with crap. Don't paint your house. Don't fix the roof. Don't patch your OS. Now THOSE are GOOD points.
You guys want to bash MS for all of the holes that are found in their software like no other software has holes in it. Jeez..... (no I don't need to give examples)
Instead of complaining about the problem you should be trying to teach people how to fix them or "keep them up." | |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs: | Re: Intentional? said by Plldwnyrpnts :Your points aren't valid. Your post is invalid. | |
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2kmaro
Think
Premium,ExMod 1 BC
join:2000-07-11
ColossalCave
clubs: 
| Re: Intentional? As opposed to debating on what's valid and what's not, perhaps we should focus back on the test conducted.
First: It was an unpatched out-of-the-box copy of XP. As I recall, one of the first things that is tossed at a user once they install XP is an offer to go check for current updates. Every wise and informed user should do that and can be expected to do that. The careless, uneducated and uninformed may not.
I would consider this a more valid test if it were conducted with an XP system with all patches/updates, including SP2, installed and left at their default settings. Consider that an out-of-the-box XP setup, for just one example, has their own built-in firewall turned off. SP2 turns that around to default to FIREWALL=ON.
justin makes mention in another part of this thread that testing with SP2 a few months from now might be a better test. I'd recommend a "then and now" (or "now and then") test: test it with SP2 now and then go back in a few months and retest to see what holes in IE/Windows XP/SP2 have been found and opened up in those months.
One problem I think I see in Microsoft's security plan is that they appear to be very REactive as opposed to being PROactive. They fix things that are reported to them, but they themselves don't seem to be doing much in house to be the first to discover the vulnerabilities and potential exploits. If they don't have it already, they need to set up their own Xtreme-Hackers division with nothing to do but find ways to punch through the defenses in their mainstream products such as Windows, Office, and their various server products.
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Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment. Barry LePatner | |
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| | | | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
 ·XMission
| said by Apathy : My vehicle needs "updated" all the time - it's called an oil change. So by your reasoning, whenever I defrag my disk, that is an upgrade?
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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Apathy
Premium
join:2004-09-01
Saint Louis, MO | Re: Intentional? No Ray, it's not.
Any more pointless questions? | |
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| | | | | | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs: | Re: Intentional? Thought you would say maintenance was an upgrade in one case and not the other.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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| | | | | Plldwnyrpnts
join:2003-04-19
Chicago, IL | Defragging your drive would be like vacuuming your car. Buying new rims would be an upgrade. Changing the oil is an update.
I love analogies.:D | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
1 edit | said by Doctor Olds : Do you have to apply workarounds to get your car to start? You missed that workaround on your brakes and ran into the back of the garage? There is a fatal flaw in the breaks of every car with power breaks that if someone cuts your break lines the breaks don't work. GM knows this but fails to protect the break-lines from every hacker with a knife. They implemented a meager patch several years ago whereby the break system consists of 2 semi-independent systems which can each function if the others lines are cut. Unfortunately this system is flawed because:
A. the system works at reduced functionality if either is broken
B. every hacker now knows to cut all the break-lines to defeat the measure
C. Current car owners cannot update to the new system without buying a new car.
Well see unfortunately for your car analogy there aren't gremlins popping the hood of your car every couple of days trying to figure out a way to make it stop working.
And we're not even gonna talk about 1st generation air bags which can potentially kill or maim certain individuals.
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Attention all decks! Brace for whining! | |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| Re: Intentional? Actually it was before power brakes and it's not just GM, it is ALL Cars out there and it had to do with single cylinder M/C on a single circuit drum brake system and/or Disc/Drum system (aka single piston brake m/cylinder and system). What do you suggest to replace the flexible brake lines with? Even stainless steel covered brake lines are rubber inside and still can be cut with side-cutters or even punctured with an ice pick to make them leak so the master cylinder will still drain. What is your solution that is flexible so that the wheel (and the disc and caliper) can turn and travel properly up and down as needed??
Power Assisted brakes are for people with weak legs so granny/grandpa, so that petite people that are not as strong as big boned people and so that the disabled can still drive and power brakes only increase the fluid pressure with less leg pressure being needed, PB in of itself does not add to the safety effectiveness of having a dual chamber master cylinder split system (aka dual circuit brakes) with half being the front brakes and half being the back brakes over a single circuit system and PB is not there for cases of a line failure in one of the 2 separate system circuit lines or one of the two master cylinder piston seals. PB is just to assist the driver in creating effective braking with little effort compared to manual brakes. Dual circuit brakes are much safer than any single circuit brake system. That is nothing new as it was 1967 when dual circuit/dual piston/dual reservoir brakes were first required.
»www.findarticles.com/p/articles/···12597864
...split-system master cylinders became mandatory for the 1967 model year. The GM X car had the split braking system (dual circuit brake system) setup changed to an X system as in the Right Front and the Left Rear was one part/chamber of the master cylinder and the Left Front and the Right Rear was the other part/chamber in the master cylinder. That was tried to help spread the leftover braking load front to rear in time of failure of one circuit and it was found not the way to go in the end. It was a failure much like the rest of the X-body line.
Brake Warning System (Required in 1970!!)
»www.musclecarclub.com/library/te···es.shtml
The brake warning system has been required standard equipment since 1970, and is connected to the master cylinder. It monitors differences in pressure in the brake lines of the two hydraulic sub-systems, and alerts the driver with a light if an imbalance occurs. When you turn the key to the Ignition position, the brake warning light on the dash comes on during a "self-test". You should not drive a car if the warning light does not come on during the startup self test.
The brake system is divided into two sub-systems to increase safety. A pressure differential switch, connected to the warning light, is positioned between the two. If a major leak occurs, and therefore pressure in one of the lines is sharply reduced, pressure from the other side forces a piston to move, activating the pressure differential switch and turns on the dashboard warning light. 1966 Dual-cylinder brake systems are introduced by Wagner, based on a concept it had patented in 1926.
»www.brakewarehouse.com/brkewrhse···ehistory
Cars get recalled when there are manufacturing errors or safety defects. Everyone with an XP CD should be in a recall from MS and they should get a full XP SP 2 CD sent to them "Free of Charge" to replace the defective earlier releases of XPee. If MS won't do it, then perhaps a "Class Action" of some sort will be needed.
Air bag setups were recalled and repaired/updated/replaced, but not XP.
Your point? | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| Re: Intentional? When all else fails post gobs of information that is totally irrelevant to the situation and then pretend it proves your point.
If I would have read on to some of your posts below this branch I wouldn't have bothered replying to you because I would have realized you are one of those hard headed, believe what I want to types that likes to make issues as confusing as you possibly can to make it so no one can argue against you. When people point out flaws in your reasoning you turn the stereo up louder (this is not an invitation to post a long triste on how stereo is in fact referring to having 2 speakers and not a type of self contained player and amplifier combo) so no one can effectively argue against you.
BTW, rubber tubing is only used because it's simple, cheap, and people aren't running around trying to figure out how to break cars just so they can be recognized as a haxor.
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Attention all decks! Brace for whining! | |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| Re: Intentional? said by Combat Chuck :Attention all decks! Brace for whining! Wow. NOT
An upgrade/upgrade and regular maintenance are vastly different and if you read the top of the post it's obvious it was to a specific poster who did NOT know the difference.
Your post however is whining, but at least you are kind enough to warn the rest of us with your sig. | |
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Steve32
join:2001-06-18
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Intentional? said by Doctor Olds :An upgrade/upgrade and regular maintenance are vastly different and if you read the top of the post it's obvious it was to a specific poster who did NOT know the difference. Ford couldn't forsee a Firestone problem 10 years later, how in the hell is Microsoft suppose to keep up with live people that are morons for making hacks. Ford could of worked around their tire problem by choosing Goodyear, but didn't. Your argument is stupid. Cars have problems which is why they have recalls. So will all Operating Systems, and I do mean ALL. | |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| Re: Intentional? said by Steve32 :Ford couldn't forsee a Firestone problem 10 years later, how in the hell is Microsoft suppose to keep up with live people that are morons for making hacks. Ford could of worked around their tire problem by choosing Goodyear, but didn't. Your argument is stupid. Cars have problems which is why they have recalls. So will all Operating Systems, and I do mean ALL. You are talking about a separate component failure (similar to talking about a badly written defrag that could crashes the entire system) versus the entire system failing to be secure. That is not just IE that is the problem with XP and removing or replacing IE does nothing to close all the open ports and other security issues in XPs complete system. There is no outside supplier in the Microsoft XP OS that caused the lack of security.
Firestone was an outside supplier to Ford and Firestone had to eat thousands of tires. Not to mention the loss of life lawsuits. If Mercedes had used Firestone in the USA, then that would still be an outside supplier causing damage to the total product and since XP is not based upon outside suppliers (closed proprietary source code) it not comparable in my eyes.
If an OS has problems, then MS should be forced to send XP SP2 replacement CDs to every person at "no charge" just like Firestone replaced defective tires before they actually came apart. Preventing future damages is the key.
Regards,
Doctor Olds | |
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| | sbs0518
join:2002-12-14
Lakehurst, NJ
| "Can't expect it to be safe out of the box"? MS was strongly warned that they should not ship XP using Raw Sockets and with the functionality that every user created is an administrator by default. They didn't listen. See the facts at »www.grc.com. MS also shipped XP, both Home and Pro with the firewall disabled by default. Users have to manually enable it and even then it's terribly ineffective. It's not until users install SP2 that they finally get the protection they need (barely). Also consider that it currently only takes 18 minutes for a PC running 2000 or XP to become completely infected when exosed to the internet directly. That's not secure out of the box.
Sticking with 2000 for now as I don't need all the extra, pretty GUI crap and related overhead.
My 2 Cents | |
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Steve32
join:2001-06-18
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Intentional? said by sbs0518 :"Can't expect it to be safe out of the box"? Also consider that it currently only takes 18 minutes for a PC running 2000 or XP to become completely infected when exosed to the internet directly. That's not secure out of the box. Then I guess your never going to buy a Ford because the tires were bad and warned. Never going to buy a Honda because the seatbelts were bad. Never gonna buy ANY car because everyone of them have had some sort of recall. | |
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| Bananas
Premium
join:2004-08-18
Santa Barbara, CA | I've never patched my xp and only have SP1a as an afterthought, wonder why i never get any crap on mine. course i have a firewall and antivirus and spyware blockers. Whats with all the hoopla ? | |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs: | Re: Intentional? Because you are the exception to the rule....... | |
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Rejected One
I Suffer From Id10t Errors
Premium
join:2003-07-31
Wilmington, DE
clubs: | only 16 ... i had 128 diff ones from one infection of downloadertrojan.A installed LOADS of adware i believe 48 diff apps
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Requiem Of Death ( new handle rpg ) | |
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mavizao
join:2004-08-21
Brazil | Solution The only solution i see is DDOS all these sites (grokster) and possibly anyone else that advertise on them later. | |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| Re: just think said by cork1958 :Just think. If you hadn't had XP how many more you would've had? Guarantee it would've been many, many more! Baloney. 100%
I have tested a Win 95B Install, a Win 98 Install and a Win 98 SE Install with no infections compared to XP. | |
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cork1958
Cork
join:2000-02-26
Fruitport, MI | Re: just think So have I and what you say is baloney!! | |
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See 11 replies to this post |
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koolman2
Premium
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK | I sure wouldn't have expected it to be like that... Bologna!  | |
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koolman2
Premium
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK | Wow. I've seen Windows vs. Mac, Windows vs. Linux, Mac vs. Linux, and even Linux vs. BSD! But I have never seen a Windows vs. Windows fight... | |
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wesm
tmb.org
Premium
join:1999-07-29
Lewisville, TX
| Catchy title 18 different entries in Program Files .. an IE that won't even start ("toolbar.exe has experienced a serious problem and must close"), though the shadow of a window revealed two, possibly three, new bars .. five new icons on the desktop, one of them with a naked woman and the title of "SEX" .. and last, but not least, an active desktop background warning you that your computer may be infected with spyware and how to buy a program to remove it.
Oh, the good humor ...
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Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are easy to annoy and have the root password. | |
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| jeraden
join:2002-06-10
Coraopolis, PA
| Re: Catchy title My dad ran into one of those sites on his computer I guess. He called me over last weekend because his computer was hosed. Tons of spyware and stuff. A lot of them are the same ones mentioned in that link. Unfortunately I had to end up reformatting the computer as there were too many to get rid of... While I'm cleaning them up, new ones were installing. | |
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| Mechano
join:2004-05-30
Antarctica | There is Linux....you know..... | |
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| | scomps
join:2001-06-05
Utica, NY
| Re: Catchy title said by Mechano :There is Linux....you know..... There's also selling your computer and reading a book. Do we really need to continue down this road of unproductive blather unrelated to the topic? The topic here is Windows, particularly XP, and spyware from a site. To me, it's more of an issue about the supposed "permissions" and invisible installations, if an advertiser needs to trick you into watching their stuff, maybe they should find something more impressive to sell? In the meantime, linux isn't the the only solution, for many novices, it's not a solution at all. Lets face it. Novices are the ones *really* getting hammered by these things. We all get bitten, but not to that degree.
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Scott Johnson -- developer of MWall. Contact me for more information. | |
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| | electric_dsl
join:2004-07-20
Pickering, ON | and go from being called over to fix his dads computer 10 times a week instead of once?
Good idea. | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA | One unpatched XP box... Just goes to show you, Patch/Update them systems people!
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No Firefox here, move along! | |
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Defcon888
Premium
join:2003-07-22
San Bruno, CA
·AT&T Yahoo
·DSL EXTREME
| Hah None of my computers have ever been infected with spyware or adware, ever (through routine spyware scans with AdAware and Spybot, none have ever been detected, and no abnormal computer behavior has ever been found)
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defcon888@gmail.com | I Love Microsoft Internet Explorer! | |
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| Galvage
join:2004-02-11
Taconite, MN
| Re: Hah I've seen a great deal of viruses upload onto a win98 machine that had no firewall through just 30 minutes of dial up while downloading an update for the ISP software. I can't tell how many customers when I used to work for an ISP would come into the frys store I was working at with 4 viruses or more they got within the first 10min of dial up.
I suppose AOL is good for something.
Also Olds you probably have a NF(natural firewall) through your router that protects all your other machines. But be warned if you try to visit some of the harder sites like say warez with them don't be suprised if you end up with serious problems shortly there after.
Also Most if not all new machines now come with SP2 installed which automatically protects most if not all of the vulnerabilities that came with the original version of WinXP. Plus now autoupdate is turned on out of the box so its more of a out of site out of mind thing with most new machines. The only way I could possibly think a hacker could do anything is if they could somehow emulate microsofts update site to your computer and create an update to let themselves in that way. But I'm sure microsoft has a great deal of protections for that already. | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Nearly Useless These kinds of tests are nearly useless. The true test would be a fully patched system withOUT add-on software (other than standard anti-virus). An unpatched OS of any kind is going to have exploits, so why not test IE's resilience to spyware while it's fully updated and sans the myriad of "hassleware" that is AdAware, Spybot, et al?
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
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cbcalhoun
Premium
join:2000-09-04
Heath, OH | Damn Spyware I was waiting for the point where any explorer window he opened just automatically closed after a few seconds...  | |
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MS_bites
@comcast.net | Re: Damn Spyware BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE IT!!!!!
- a Mac user | |
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TELUS
join:2004-02-16
TELUS | -Not Safe For Work- I know it sounds stupid, but there is a small portion of that video that's not safe for work.
[I've viewed two minutes so far] | |
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Cheddarhead
Ain't Nuthin But A Thang
join:2002-02-19
Hudson, WI
 ·Comcast
| Yippy skippy So what, this proved that a 2 year old operating system, bought unpatched and original, is a security risk? Well no shit sherlock. Just another M$ hater blowing smoke up peoples ass'. If you buy a system, retail, it comes with latest security fixes and sp2. If you buy XP OS stand alone, make sure you visit windows update first and foremost. The site this guy picked for his "test" is a site 99.9% of people would never visit. Now show me same result, after visiting fox.com, or msnbc.com, or better yet, microsoft.com, and you'd have a point...
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AMD Athlon XP 1800+, 60gig HD, DVD-Ram Drive, Sony 17" LCD, Geforce FX 5200 Ultra, Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, Creative Inspire 5.1, 3mb Comcast Cable Internet | |
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| Trivista
join:2003-11-11
Longview, TX | Re: Yippy skippy Microsoft is still selling the unpatched version TODAY. It is what you get when you buy a current version of XP.
Why, as an install option, don't they have a version that can be installed with SP2 already installed? | |
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Cheddarhead
Ain't Nuthin But A Thang
join:2002-02-19
Hudson, WI | Re: Yippy skippy I am pretty sure all XP disks microsoft is selling, are slip streamed with sp2.... OEM is another story... | |
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clevere1
Premium
join:2002-01-06
Vancouver, WA | ouch Looks like we broke their web site. They are out of bandwidth. | |
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mrchris
We don't miss you Bush
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | Re: ouch It's a 404. | |
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lupinia
Premium
join:2004-08-24
Harrisonburg, VA | Re: ouch I'm getting "This site has been suspended for excessive bandwidth usage". | |
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| | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: ouch I guess wel'll have to wait until 12AM PST to see it again because I don't know about the site owner, but there's no well in hell you'd get me to pay the following for transfer bandwidth:
Stop the worry about data transfer rates! Now for as low as $4.00 per GB/month (with the Commerce Professional package) you can boost your data transfer allotment up to what your needs require. Globat has designed this service for growing businesses who get a lot of press coverage or marketing exposure that drives traffic to the company's website. Rates for additional bandwith for the various packages are:
Gigabyte
($6.00 per GB/month if pre-paid / $8 per GB/month if not pre-paid)
Commerce Starter
($5.50 per GB/month if pre-paid / $8 per GB/month if not pre-paid)
Commerce Professional
($4.00 per GB/month if pre-paid / $8 per GB/month if not pre-paid) $4.00-$8.00 per gigabayte ?! That's 3+ times the whoesale rate I've seen elsewhere... Talk about getting shafted.
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SHUTUP!
Viva La Fee' Verte! | |
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Clo
join:2001-12-29
Hollywood, FL
1 edit | OOOPS oops we killed their site. Does anyone have the video so I can watch it from the comfort of my mac  | |
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| remusrm
join:2003-04-07
Northridge, CA | Re: OOOPS i want too see the video and article aswell | |
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Ben Edelman
@harvard.edu | bandwidth Yup, too many folks downloading the 4MB video used up my several-GB daily allowance of bandwidth. I'm working on finding some alternative hosting, or paying my hosting company a bit extra so this will work as expected. My apologies. | |
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| remusrm
join:2003-04-07
Northridge, CA | Re: bandwidth do not worry, is ok... | |
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| bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| If you contact me, I can host it somewhere so that its cached on a content distribution network and won't result in bandwidth issues...
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SHUTUP!
Viva La Fee' Verte! | |
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Ben Edelman
@harvard.edu | My web host turned the site back on. Sorry for the delay and inconvenience, folks. I'm taking steps to see that it doesn't happen again. | |
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Ben Edelman
@harvard.edu
|  a word on the purpose of my site --> big companies
What I thought was interesting, and what I intended to point out, was that big companies, some of whom claim to be respectable and honest, nonetheless profit from installations of software through security holes.
Consider 180solutions. Their web site ( »www.180solutions.com/ ) claims "no hiding" and "no spyware" (see icons in bottom left and right corners). Their privacy pledge ( »www.180solutions.com/pages/priva···dge.aspx claims "Our programs are only downloaded with user consent and opt-in." These claims are obviously and demonstrably false. My video shows 180 software being installed without notice or consent or opt-in. I have other videos showing 180 software installed into the Windows directory (not into its own folder in Program Files) and/or using misleading random names (names like apseo.exe rather than zango.exe). And 180 is not some tiny company: They have $40 million of financing ( »seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/···s30.html ) and 180 employees ( »www.180solutions.com/pages/press···00-10.04 ), and they were recently ranked 39th on the Inc 500 list ( »www.180solutions.com/pages/press···00-10.04 ).
So 180 claims to be a big, respectable, honest company -- yet its software sneaks onto users' computers through security holes. And many (though not all) of the other companies I reported are not so different in their attempts to claim honest operations. This is what I sought to get at in my video, article, and the rest of my site. | |
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Ben Edelman
@attbi.com
| effect of installing all recent OS patches 2kmaro, I agree completely with the hypothesis of your post -- that these security exploits have little or no effect on an up-to-date patched machine. I essentially confirmed this at the start of my testing -- on an up-to-date patched XP box, the exploit page had no effect (that I could determine, at least).
Again, I didn't intend my page as an attack on Microsoft or IE -- fact is, these security holes are bound to happen; and while IE may have more holes than we all wish, diligent application of the patches is a solid way to prevent these problems.
Rather, I intended my page to document the falsity of claims by "adware" companies -- e.g. the falsity of 180's claim, prominently placed on their web site, that their software is "only downloaded with user consent and opt-in." That claim is false, and documenting the falsity of that claim was my primary objective. Whether that documentation is of interest to readers here, well, I don't know. But it's clearly important to document these practices in the face of 180 (and its colleagues) claiming to operate legitimate honest legal businesses, when in fact their software can be shown to arrive on users' PCs through tricks and deceit. | |
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TFArchive
Premium
join:2003-02-03
Gloucester, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Just Say No! Try it again and say No to the first prompt. Wonder how much you'd get then?
Although the average internet user is too stupid to think before they click. People should have to take an internet IQ test before they are allowed to surf the net. | |
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CynicalCME
@nd.edu | Re: Just Say No! Don't click no, press Alt+F4 to kill. | |
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weaksauce
@comcast.net
| Why? The majority of Micro$ofts products seem to be software, correct? And they still can't get it right?? I don't use M$ Windows as my primary OS, and I seriously don't know why anyone would want to. Why are people still using this POS?
M$ reached it's peak in the 90's and is dying a slow and painful death ever since. They really seem to be getting disperate lately. | |
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ricep5
Premium
join:2000-08-07
Jacksonville, FL | Analogies The problems with all of the analogies with cars is that you are using XP under license. You don't own the software, you only own a license to use it. You own cars and you don't own software, you only purchase the right to use it. | |
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easypirate
@comcast.n
| please There are two main problems, one is hackers who want something for free, which is access to YOUR computer. Find and PROSECUTE these worthless punk pieces of human feces and there goes probably half the problem right away. The other part of the problem is Advertisers, who think that if they cram their product in your face 10,000 times in a year that you will buy it maybe 3 times, so they feel that they are justified in invading your internet experience just so they can make a buck. I honestly do not know how to deal with advertisers in any decent manner, the most successful way to deal with them will be to hit them where it hurts, i.e., the wallet, but just refusing to buy their mostly worthless products is not enough, since they aren't going to lose nearly enough money that way, the only thing that seems to draw ANY sort of pause out of them is a Class-Action lawsuit, and that will hurt them, but also put un-due stress on an already overworked legal system, and create more useless lawsuits that are mostly about trying to grab an easy buck, and not about actual justice. Some Anti-hackers have launched DDOS attacks in the past against these vermin, but that just gets them labeled as criminals and hacker-punks, and puts them on the defensive. If someone can come up with a better way to do this, I would LOVE to hear about it, but we also need to maintain the "freedom" of the internet, and that helps out the intrusive @holes just as much as it helps out the people who just want to remain anonymous. | |
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| bedelman
Premium
join:2004-06-20
Cambridge, MA
| strategy for prosecution and advertisers easypirate, I agree completely with your suggestions as to what should happen next.
As to prosecutions, note that there's a money trail to be followed in the video I showed: The hackers are installing spyware with an expectation of being paid installation commissions by the spyware companies. My recording (with a network monitor / "packet sniffer") shows the installation IDs used. With these IDs, it should be possible to ask the spyware companies who did the installs -- where the commission checks are slated to be sent. I'm working on getting the necessary strategy and data to interested law enforcement officials.
As to advertisers supporting spyware: I have previously written about precisely this subject. See, for example, my listing of major advertisers using Claria. Details at »www.benedelman.org/spyware . | |
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Intentional Infection
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