  major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Mission Viejo, CA clubs:
| 6 of 1, Half a Dozen of the Other Seems to me anything that will alleviate the security theater as practiced by the TSA insane clown posse patrol is a good thing. Of course, this new & improved way of checking in for a flight does not negate the overall clusterfucked chaos that is air travel today, especially when using Delta. | |
|  |  jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
edit: June 21st, @01:53PM
| Re: 6 of 1, Half a Dozen of the Other Um no thanks. There are already enough issues with the TSA being able to order passengers to decrypt and inspect laptops. In worst cases, they can actually seize and keep your laptop, so you never get it back. Now they want to use your cell phone as a boarding pass? Call me a skeptic, but I value my privacy. I'd rather not risk there being a security bug where my contact list, call history, or personal information gets sent along with the boarding pass. It's just one more reason and worry about what these morons would do with your data. Hence, ARE PEOPLE REALLY THIS DUMB, LAZY, and IN A RUSH they do not think of the ramifications these days. Society is literally going to hell in a hand basket we get more dumb as the days pass. | |
|  |  |   major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Mission Viejo, CA clubs:
| Re: 6 of 1, Half a Dozen of the Other said by jc100 :Um no thanks. There are already enough issues with the TSA being able to order passengers to decrypt and inspect laptops. In worst cases, they can actually seize and keep your laptop, so you never get it back. Now they want to use your cell phone as a boarding pass? Call me a skeptic, but I value my privacy. I'd rather not risk there being a security bug where my contact list, call history, or personal information gets sent along with the boarding pass. It's just one more reason and worry about what these morons would do with your data. Hence, ARE PEOPLE REALLY THIS DUMB, LAZY, and IN A RUSH they do not think of the ramifications these days. Society is literally going to hell in a hand basket we get more dumb as the days pass. Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that. Still, I don't know how much of a privacy issue this brings up. It's just like the pay & go wireless pass from the gas stations. I mean, it's a cell phone. Are you storing documents and other confidential data on it like you would a laptop? -- The Toll
Tracking Lord Stanley
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|  |  |  |   RARPSL
join:1999-12-08 Suffern, NY
| Re: 6 of 1, Half a Dozen of the Other said by major marco :Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that. Still, I don't know how much of a privacy issue this brings up. It's just like the pay & go wireless pass from the gas stations. I mean, it's a cell phone. Are you storing documents and other confidential data on it like you would a laptop? I lose the phone until I can get a new one programmed for my cell number thus not being able to be contacted, as well as losing my phone book whose contents might cause me problems if the wrong name/number is discovered there and which would need to be recreated if the phone is confiscated after inspection. This is the same issue as having my laptop inspected/confiscated (ie: loss of access to the contents as well as the physical device itself). | |
|  |  |  |  |   joako Premium join:2000-09-07 Gainesville, FL
| Re: 6 of 1, Half a Dozen of the Other said by RARPSL :said by major marco :Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that. Still, I don't know how much of a privacy issue this brings up. It's just like the pay & go wireless pass from the gas stations. I mean, it's a cell phone. Are you storing documents and other confidential data on it like you would a laptop? I lose the phone until I can get a new one programmed for my cell number thus not being able to be contacted, as well as losing my phone book whose contents might cause me problems if the wrong name/number is discovered there and which would need to be recreated if the phone is confiscated after inspection. This is the same issue as having my laptop inspected/confiscated (ie: loss of access to the contents as well as the physical device itself). So you are saying that normally you don't travel with a mobile phone or laptop? I don't see how this is any different.... your mobile phone downloads an HTML page and JPG image and they scan that instead of a boarding pass.
The fact that they can search you does not change. If you travel with your mobile phone and still use a traditional boarding pass they can still search or do whatever you claim they can do with your mobile phone. -- 09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0 | |
|  |  |  |  |  |   RARPSL
join:1999-12-08 Suffern, NY
| Re: 6 of 1, Half a Dozen of the Other said by joako :said by RARPSL :said by major marco :Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that. Still, I don't know how much of a privacy issue this brings up. It's just like the pay & go wireless pass from the gas stations. I mean, it's a cell phone. Are you storing documents and other confidential data on it like you would a laptop? I lose the phone until I can get a new one programmed for my cell number thus not being able to be contacted, as well as losing my phone book whose contents might cause me problems if the wrong name/number is discovered there and which would need to be recreated if the phone is confiscated after inspection. This is the same issue as having my laptop inspected/confiscated (ie: loss of access to the contents as well as the physical device itself). So you are saying that normally you don't travel with a mobile phone or laptop? I don't see how this is any different.... your mobile phone downloads an HTML page and JPG image and they scan that instead of a boarding pass. The fact that they can search you does not change. If you travel with your mobile phone and still use a traditional boarding pass they can still search or do whatever you claim they can do with your mobile phone. My reply was to the situation where a TSA (or Customs) Storm Trooper decide to inspect and confiscate/keep (for reasons that they decide to invoke/claim [such as it is a neat Laptop and they want to have it to use ]) an iPhone or Laptop. The quote in my message was in response to this posting (as you can see if you looked at the thread:
said by jc100 :Um no thanks. There are already enough issues with the TSA being able to order passengers to decrypt and inspect laptops. In worst cases, they can actually seize and keep your laptop, so you never get it back. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |   MrMaster What If Premium join:2000-12-16 Austin, TX clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: 6 of 1, Half a Dozen of the Other searches of what is on a laptop is only permissible at custom checkpoints.
Delta isn't the first company to be doing this. Although it was smartphones originally. -- One never notices what has been done; one can only see what remains to be done. -Marie Curie | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Mission Viejo, CA clubs:
| Re: 6 of 1, Half a Dozen of the Other said by MrMaster :searches of what is on a laptop is only permissible at custom checkpoints. So far, that is. It would not surprise me one bit if that search & seizure were expanded to also include domestic flights. The EFF has had numerous FOIA requests to the TSA to get them to disclose the actual seizure procedures when "detaining" travelers and confiscating laptops, but so far, the TSA has been silent. Big surprise there.
/sarcasm -- The Toll
Tracking Lord Stanley
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|  |  |  |  jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
| How much private information gets stored?
1) Call list and contact list 2) Call log of all incoming and outgoing conversations 3) People have business and personal memos on their phones 4) Blackberrys and others can house text messages, photos, etc
There's a lot that can get stolen. It's a HELL of a lot more than a pay and go pass. Those passes, while tracking your activity, only have certain data. A phone can have a million and one private things on it. | |
|  |  |  |  |   major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Mission Viejo, CA clubs:
| Re: 6 of 1, Half a Dozen of the Other said by jc100 :How much private information gets stored? 1) Call list and contact list 2) Call log of all incoming and outgoing conversations 3) People have business and personal memos on their phones 4) Blackberrys and others can house text messages, photos, etc There's a lot that can get stolen. It's a HELL of a lot more than a pay and go pass. Those passes, while tracking your activity, only have certain data. A phone can have a million and one private things on it. I guess that doesn't resonate with me because I only use a pay as you go phone. -- The Toll
Tracking Lord Stanley
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|  |  |  |  |  |  jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: 6 of 1, Half a Dozen of the Other Well that is a different story then. Obviously, pay as you got is 100 percent anonymous. It's actually such a problem that the FBI and law enforcement can't track those phones. I read an article about that. However, the large majority of people, use a normal phone that is not a toss away per say. For them, and myself included, this would pose a problem | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |   major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Mission Viejo, CA clubs:
| Re: 6 of 1, Half a Dozen of the Other said by jc100 :Obviously, pay as you got is 100 percent anonymous. In terms of not using it to check in with Delta, it appears so. But I would never call using such a phone 100% anonymous because I still have to buy air time.
I suppose it could be considered 100% anonymous provided that I purchased the air time card in cash, as opposed buying air time from the website and/or phoning the company to order it, but "100% anonymous" involves purchasing both the phone and air time with cash. And even then, you still have to provide a name and address to the company. At least with Tracfone, you do. I'm not sure about the others.
I'd be curious to read the story you cite regarding pay-as-you-go phones as being problematic for the feds. If that were the case, then there would a lot more hoops installed to jump through in order to use them, such as in the case of having to present ID to a pharmacy in order to buy over the counter cold meds containing pseudoephedrine. -- The Toll
Tracking Lord Stanley
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|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
edit: June 22nd, @12:47PM
| Re: 6 of 1, Half a Dozen of the Other Here's one article:
»www.policeone.com/legal/articles···-phones/
Issues with Prepaid phones:
Pay in cash and no record of who bough the phone or call time is logged.
Sim card can be changed which will switching the phones identifying feature.
Most importantly, no way to say who owns or is using the phone at any given time since it could be sold off or passed around. It's not like a normal phone, where there's an "owner" of the plan. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Mission Viejo, CA clubs:
edit: June 22nd, @12:54PM
| Re: 6 of 1, Half a Dozen of the Other said by jc100 :Most importantly, no way to say who owns or is using the phone at any given time since it could be sold off or passed around. It's not like a normal phone, where there's an "owner" of the plan. Ok, but why is that "important." Are you assuming that anyone who buys such a phone is using it for illegal purposes by default? Once ID is required by law to purchase a prepaid phone, what next? Shampoo? Bleach? The chemical derivatives found in both can be used to make a bomb. Some people do illegal things with common everyday products, but that doesn't mean society should become a police state.
Personally, I use a prepaid phone because I refuse to get fcked up the ass by the carriers like the rest of you are getting with your cell phone plans. It's just too bad law enforcement actually has to do some old fashioned detective work in order to get the bad guys instead of sitting on their asses eating donuts playing Xbox. -- The Toll
Tracking Lord Stanley
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|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: 6 of 1, Half a Dozen of the Other No no no. You are missing my point. I was just responding to the fact that pay as you go or prepaid phones are anonymous. Therefore, that would be the only real exemption per say to using a phone for airport security. You wouldn't risk having your life ripped to shreds or a phone of value confiscated. Those phones are anonymous. Where as, everyone else who uses a normal call plan would be at risk of all the items I listed above.
1) Confiscation of phone 2) Data transferred wrongfully
etc | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  jc100
join:2002-04-10 | The other issue is you can switch out sim cards, making the phone never have the same identifying tag. | |
|  |  |  |   JoeOnSunset Doublethink Is Doubleplus Ungood. Premium join:2002-11-25 Ormond Beach, FL
| I don't know, but I doubt that it's a Bluetooth boarding pass folks.
Delta has already been telling people they can download their boarding pass to their phones and scan the barcode on shown the screen at their kiosks.
I imagine this just takes that same process to the TSA checkpoint. | |
|  |   mikes60 A View From Paradise Premium join:2001-07-31 Boynton Beach, FL
·AT&T Southeast
| said by major marco :Seems to me anything that will alleviate the security theater as practiced by the TSA insane clown posse patrol is a good thing. Of course, this new & improved way of checking in for a flight does not negate the overall clusterfucked chaos that is air travel today, especially when using Delta. I'm not sure this will change anything at the TSA checkpoints.
I fly Delta almost every week and have found them better than any other airline on overall performance.
Certainly not perfect, and not as easy and trouble free as they used to be, but with what's going on with the airlines in general, Delta is still my choice. -- No good deed goes unpunished. | |
|   kfsutops Premium join:2002-08-19 Brandon, FL clubs:  | But... But what would all of the TSA people that check boarding passes have to mark on? -- "There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots" | |
|  |   Unit649 I B U, Who U B? Premium join:2000-01-22 Stockton, CA | Re: But... Your phone, of course.
What, you thought they wouldn't deface it in the name of national security? HA! | |
|  |  |  |  |  voipguy
join:2006-05-31 Forest Hills, NY | Re: But... Sharpie "OK" written on the screen! | |
|  |  |  |   Rob In Deo speramus Premium join:2001-08-25 Kendall, FL
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: But... said by voipguy :Sharpie "OK" written on the screen! Talkin 'bout TSA here.. you're probably right! | |
|  |  |  jesseb_66
join:2002-12-06 Tucson, AZ | Meh I've always just done online check in the day before I leave... | |
|   Kardinal 431st Air Demo Sqdn Premium join:2001-02-04 N of 49th clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| Wireless boarding pass is only in a trial stage???? WestJet has been doing this for a while now. I tried it out on a recent business trip and other than one security screener who wasn't familiar with it, it worked flawlessly. The boarding pass arrives via email (I use a Blackberry). WestJet has even set up a customized wireless online site for check-in so that you can do that from your Blackberry as well. This too worked perfectly.
Anything to have one less thing to carry (paper boarding pass) works for me. -- All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars -- Peart/Lee/Lifeson Join Team Helix
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|  |  dragonbait
join:2000-10-28 Loxahatchee, FL | Re: Wireless boarding pass is only in a trial stage???? Yep, and Continental was the first to try it back in December. The referenced story even mentions that fact.
"Last December, Continental Airlines was the first U.S. carrier to test this type of mobile check-in program." | |
|  corster Premium join:2002-02-23 Thornhill, ON clubs:  edit: June 21st, @05:32PM
| Been There, Done that Air Canada and Westjet have been doing this since early last year.
Works well, CATSA hasn't sharpied my Blackberry yet | |
|   capecoddah
join:2005-03-18 Yarmouth Port, MA
| Separation of Classes When I fly on a contractor's ticket, I expect a fast in - out. I HATE the "I won't ever check luggage" mentality. I have a few things (measuring tools and paperwork) and underwear and sox in my briefcase for lost luggage. Relax kids, it wasn't all this quick in the past. Deal with it. | |
|   disconnected
@snet.net | ..and if Your Battery Dies... ...or your phone malfunctions.. ...then what? | |
|  |  dragonbait
join:2000-10-28 Loxahatchee, FL | Re: ..and if Your Battery Dies... Then you go to a kiosk and print a paper boarding pass.  | |
|  |  |  fiberguy My views are my own. Premium join:2005-05-20
edit: June 22nd, @03:27AM
| Re: ..and if Your Battery Dies... said by dragonbait :Then you go to a kiosk and print a paper boarding pass. Then it's a worthless system to begin with.
There is nothing wrong with the paper boarding pass system at this time and there is no need to F'up and complicate things with this.
Simply put, somethings don't need to be "advanced"...
This is a totally stupid idea.
Mobile stand-by service? Sure.. mobile "we're now boarding" notices? Sure.. allows people to relax in lounges and be notified of boarding.. but tickets on the phone? Don't care if it's already being done - it's STUPID. | |
|  |  |  |  dragonbait
join:2000-10-28 Loxahatchee, FL | Re: ..and if Your Battery Dies... Worthless to you perhaps; however, that does not take away from the value that others might receive from this system.
If you do not like the system then you can simple choose to print your boarding passes. | |
|  |  |  |  |  fiberguy My views are my own. Premium join:2005-05-20
| Re: ..and if Your Battery Dies... Actually, its not worthless to me.. it has worth. When they invest the money they do into this BS system, I am surely to wind up with a portion of this completely un-necessary system on the price of my ticket. Don't even tell me I'm wrong with airlines tacking on $2 just to get a drink on planes now. (Do you even fly? I fly at least 3 times a month, sometimes more)
As a VERY frequent flyer, I have NO problem printing my ticket before I leave to the air port, nor do I have any issue using a kiosk at the airport. Who would benefit from this system? Those that book tickets at the last minute. With prices the way they are, PLEASE tell me how this system would benefit anyone?
Let me also remind you.. I do NOT wish to stand behind someone at the gate as they fumble to get their boarding pass back up on their phone because it either timed out and it went away, they get a call, a text, or something else that upsets the display of the ticket.
There is NO practical use for such a system. Passengers, when flying, need to knock off this crap notion that traveling is something you need to plan for, organize, and just be prepared. If you're too lazy to print a boarding pass in advance at home, or show up to the airport as you should, then maybe you'd piss off a few less passengers by staying home and out of their way.
Seriously.. it's not as simple as you make it out to be.
The same could be said about online cell use. If you don't like someone talking next to you, then you can simply chose to plug your ears, right? The truth is that NOTHING that is done doesn't have an impact in other areas, otherwise, we'd never have a need to study/research new projects before just doing it... A good running business with always study the impact of any change they do prior to just doing it. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  dragonbait
join:2000-10-28 Loxahatchee, FL
| Re: ..and if Your Battery Dies... Yes, I fly a lot as well, so your implication that I am ignorant of what all is involved is incorrect.
As I said before, you can choose not to use this system if you do not like it; at least for now. That is until the TSA mandates its use or makes life more difficult for those with paper.
After all the TSA is the one driving this program to prevent forgery of boarding passes.
»www.tsa.gov/approach/tech/paperl···ing.shtm
Therefore, I suggest that you direct your diatribes at TSA rather than the airlines or me. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  fiberguy My views are my own. Premium join:2005-05-20
| Re: ..and if Your Battery Dies... "I fly a lot" doesn't say anything.. so I remain in what I say. YOU made assertions that I could chose to do it the old way and print a ticket..
You make a charge, I respond - that's how it works. Therefore, if you don't like being responded to, please don't extend your neck and respond to a post if you don't expect to be responded to.
I don't believe your frequent travel claim because most would be on my side. The casual traveler with a gimmick in their hand are likely to piss off the TRUE FF.
And I don't care WHO is driving this program.. you support it and spouted up with a lame "if you don't like it" not the TSA. And, I'm sorry, but simply because an inept government agency is pushing for something doesn't make it good. The TSA is the one that pushed private security on to us through the 9/11 event and look what it got us too! | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  dragonbait
join:2000-10-28 Loxahatchee, FL | Re: ..and if Your Battery Dies... Good for you. | |
|  |   Yaco Yaco Premium join:2001-10-13 Allendale, NJ | carry another battery... What would happen if your dog ate your ticket?  | |
|   insomniac84
join:2002-01-03 Schererville, IN | Now we know... Now we know where all the money collected from all the extra fees is going. | |
|  fuziwuzi Not born yesterday
join:2005-07-01 Atlanta, GA
·Comcast
| stupid? really? I fail to see how this could be considered "stupid". Do you also consider debit cards to be "stupid"? After all, people could write checks for decades without a problem, so why can't they still just write a check and not have to go through the hassle of these newfangled debit cards? And what's up with having cellphones anyway? People got by for almost 100 years without being tethered to a phone wherever they go, that seemed to work just fine. And don't even get me started on these "remote controls". What's wrong with getting up off your lazy bum and changing the channel on the set like god intended? The volume not loud enough? Get up and turn the knob. All these remotes do is clutter up the coffee table. Bah!  -- *************** I think computer viruses should count as life. I think it says something about human nature that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. We've created life in our own image. - Stephen Hawking | |
|   GlobalMind Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy Premium join:2001-10-29 Hollywood, FL
| Ok so... Summarize & agree with a few points made here...
First off the "alleviate initial wait at airport" comment is funny. This only applies to waiting in line to check in for the flight and the only time I deal with this is if I am checking a bag.
Otherwise I always check in online and print my boarding pass at home, at hotel or at office so I can go straight to the checkpoint.
Next up, the only way this works is if TSA agrees to let it happen. I have already seen them deny folks based on what they consider "not a boarding pass" so if they don't care for the phone deal then it's done. And yes, they seem to always have to write on it, which is funny in and of itself.
Outside of that, I suppose the plan might work but I don't really have much of an issue with how it is now at least in how I do it. Cell phone might be a tad more convenient and not require a print, but many airports & carriers have kiosks for those carrying on only or have enough that it isn't an issue.
As busy as ATL is, I have never had an issue at Delta's kiosks getting right up and checking in if for some reason I didn't check in online or couldn't print my BP early.
And if you fly Southwest, forget it, you have to check in online exactly 24 hrs ahead if you expect to get a decent seat. -- TheGlobalMind.com | Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? | Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. Ralph Waldo Emerson
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