 |  | 
a
@qwest.net | Re: Yet another yuppie making mention broadband is a given, kind of like breathing. | |
| | bond787
join:2002-06-25
Guy | Broadband must be shipper or free to everyone | |
| | 
FTCXtreme
join:2005-03-14
New Braintree, MA | shipper? | |
| | | Mordhem
Love it, Hate it.
join:2003-07-10
Baltimore, MD | Re: Yet another yuppie making mention when originally created it was to be free.. | |
| | | 
golden eagle
Aquila chrysaetos
Premium
join:2002-08-06
On a cliff
clubs:
1 edit | Oops wrong button ... sorry. | |
| | |
golden eagle
Aquila chrysaetos
Premium
join:2002-08-06
On a cliff
clubs: | Like Fire said ... shipper? | |
| | 
KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | It's a luxury utility.
Last thing we want is it declared as a RIGHT, because that means people who refuse to pay for it will demand we pay for it for them. | |
| | 
91439306
15,000 Watts of Bass Power
join:2002-10-16
New Milford, CT
| Way back when, on the farm, we didn't have electricity, running water, and Television hadn't been invented yet. You got your water by a manual pump at the well, and you carried it in the house in buckets. We heated with wood that we chopped ourselves. We used candles and oil (hurricane) lanterns for light, but most activity ceased at dusk anyway.
Telephone? You went down to the General Store and used the phone there. There was no dial, no pushbuttons, either. You turned a crank. And a live person would come on the line and ask what party you wanted to reach.
Yep, telephone was a luxury, and so was electricity and running water. We lived just fine without them for the first 60,000,000 years of the human race.
--
Take care,
Mark & Mary Ann Weiss
Hear my Kurzweil Creations at: »www.dv-clips.com/theater.htm
'»www.mwcomms.com/auctions.htm
'»www.mwcomms.com
'»www.adventuresinanimemusic.com
| |
| | 
The Monkey
I like bananas
Premium
join:2000-10-08
New York, NY
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| said by Network Guy  :Broadband isn't a right nor is it a utility, it's a convenience and a valuable resource. If you cannot unplug yourself from the coax or the phone line to go about your daily business, you are in dire need of a life. What on earth are you talking about? Email and the telephone ARE daily business for most people. A job where you could unplug from both sounds like a luxury to me.
--
The Monkey | |
| Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| A What...? Listen, the ability to access the internet regardless of method is a LUXURY!!! period... everytime government decides to step in to subsidize or provide a service, it more than likely ends up becoming a failure and people who use it become ingrained with the idea that they are now entitled to it... | |
| | 
Murray3
join:2001-03-06
Texas
| Re: A What...? said by Asmodeus :Listen, the ability to access the internet regardless of method is a LUXURY!!! period... Yup. I don't see how it could possibly be deemed a Utility.
I could survive without Broadband... but would not fair so good without water, electricity, etc. | |
| | | 
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: A What...? How about in five to fifteen years, when your copper is gone, and a single fiber or coaxial line runs into your basement and fuels everything, including your phone, television, stove, and grandpa's iron lung?
Does basic data connectivity stay in the "luxury" category then? | |
| | | | 
IamZed
Premium
join:2001-01-10
Dayton, OH
| Re: A What...? Exactly. Electricity was a luxury once. A phone was a luxury once. Running water was a luxury once. People who think fiber is a luxury can’t see past tomorrow, and shouldn’t be allowed to plan it.
--
A thing worth doing is worth doing to excess | |
| | | | | Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York
 ·PHONE POWER
·Broadvox Direct
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: A What...? Once it becomes standard, as in the rural communities also run it, then I'd call that a utility. Current trend seems to be rollouts in the major metropolitan and surrounding areas only, and to me that's considered a convenience, not something to count or rely on. | |
| | | | | | 
GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Re: A What...? But isn't that exactly what happened with the aforementioned items: running water, electricity, phone service.
Metro areas were first served, and rurals second. That alone does not discount something being deemed a utility.
I am of the opinion that broadband is not yet at the level of utility, but it is well on it's way to becoming so. Evidenced partially by the fact that established "utility companies" such as TELCOs are major providers of service. Eventually the connectivity will just be one line, and THAT single connection will be a utility.
K.
--
TheGlobalMind.com
Forget regret, or life is yours to miss - Rent | |
| | | | | 
Tomek
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8
| said by IamZed :Exactly. Electricity was a luxury once. A phone was a luxury once. Running water was a luxury once. People who think fiber is a luxury can’t see past tomorrow, and shouldn’t be allowed to plan it. Nicely said.
--
Semper Fidelis | |
| | | | | jesseb_66
join:2002-12-06
Tucson, AZ
| said by IamZed :Exactly. Electricity was a luxury once. A phone was a luxury once. Running water was a luxury once. People who think fiber is a luxury can’t see past tomorrow, and shouldn't’t be allowed to plan it. I like that. | |
| | | | 
neosolace
Stay In It
join:2003-08-25
Verbena, AL
| IMO... Although it isn't QUITE to the point where it should be a utility yet..Karl is right. This is no different than rural phone,electrification, and even gas service was in the earlier part of last century. Although I don't completely trust the idea of competing with muni operations, I do think that the government will HAVE to get involved (maybe not just in the ways everyone thinks) to get broadband to the masses. There's just no simple, easy way to do it. I think that if carefully planned out and overseen, a government (or otherly financed) operation could benefit everybody. | |
| | | | 
wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| said by Karl Bode :How about in five to fifteen years, when your copper is gone, and a single fiber or coaxial line runs into your basement and fuels everything, including your phone, television, stove, and grandpa's iron lung? How exactly is fiber going to "fuel" my stove?? I do agree with your other examples however.
--
I like dogs, guns, and cheeseburgers. Whats your malfunction? | |
| | | | |
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: A What...? I'd guess it's fairly sound to believe a lot of appliances will be connected to the internet to aid self or remote diagnostic repair, update firmware, and sell marketing companies information on how often you do X, or eat Y..... | |
| | | | | | 
Sarah
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2001-01-09
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
1 edit | Re: A What...? They have ovens in development (or maybe that you can buy now, I dunno) that you can program when to start baking, or even to refrigerate something until 4 PM and then heat it up in time for dinner, etc.
Doesn't seem like much of a stretch to be plugged in so you set it remotely from phone or office. "We'll be home in half an hour, let me call the oven and start the lasagna baking."
--
The devil makes work for idle hands, but Stanford makes work for idle CPUs! | |
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Aggie Dan
Stop... Reverse That.
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Frisco, TX
clubs: | Re: A What...? I dunno. That sounds like a luxury to me. | |
| | | | | | | |
Sarah
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2001-01-09
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| Re: A What...? said by Aggie Dan :I dunno. That sounds like a luxury to me. I just meant to answer the poster who said "how will fiber fuel my stove".
--
The devil makes work for idle hands, but Stanford makes work for idle CPUs! | |
| | | | | | Beeper
Part Of The Problem
join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs:
| said by Karl Bode :I'd guess it's fairly sound to believe a lot of appliances will be connected to the internet to aid self or remote diagnostic repair, update firmware, and sell marketing companies information on how often you do X, or eat Y..... I believe point # 4. Everything else is rubbish.
--
Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism. | |
| | | | | | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Pithy comments from some of you, and I'm somewhat inclined to agree, but isn't it a little early to judge?
I mean, why pick broadband as the next must-have utility (to be granted special consideration by state and legislative planning), rather than wireless networks? Or cell phones? Or satellite? Or iPods or that frickin' Segway?
All kinds of stuff is important to our current way of life, and all kinds of stuff MAY have enormous importance to the majority going forward. But who's to say which ones are the proto-utilities?
Heck, few things are more pervasive than supermarkets and cell phones, and I don't see much real regulation or city ordinances targeted at either.
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
| | | | | | |
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: A What...? Not sure which comments are pithy.
Simply putting forth the seemingly ignored future-fact that home data, in very short order, will be one-pipe that connects to all manner of electronics, connecting everything in the home to a global network, and largely a necessity for anyone not hiding out on the fringe's of society. (Which I grant is always a choice - and maybe in 10 years a wise one)
I don't know if that observation justifies subsidization or anything else, simply throwing the concept on the table. | |
| | | | | | | | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Re: A What...? said by Karl Bode :Simply putting forth the seemingly ignored future-fact that home data, in very short order, will be one-pipe that connects to all manner of electronics, connecting everything in the home to a global network, and largely a necessity for anyone not hiding out on the fringe's of society. (Which I grant is always a choice - and maybe in 10 years a wise one) I don't know if that observation justifies subsidization or anything else, simply throwing the concept on the table. And I'm just saying that the "observation" isn't necessarily a sure thing. Who's to say that in fact we're headed for that particular future?
I don't disagree with the likelihood, but I'm naive enough to realize that we can be completely wrong -- what if wired broadband is an also-ran in the history books, and some form of wireless connectivity becomes paramount? What if, us geeky enthusiasts aside, the global net really DOESN'T become as all-important and all-consuming as we think it will be? The future is inevitable, but particular technologies and social developments aren't.
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
| | | | | | | | |
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: A What...? Nothing is certain, of course. But I'd put the likelyhood of pervasive high-bandwidth home networks up there statistically with Paris Hilton not getting a Nobel peace prize. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | 
captokita
Premium
join:2005-02-22
Calabash, NC
| --I'd guess it's fairly sound to believe a lot of appliances will be connected to the internet to aid self or remote diagnostic repair, update firmware, and sell marketing companies information on how often you do X, or eat Y...--
LOL! Can you see it? You go to cook dinner, and a pop up window comes up on the stove.. "Before you cook your dinner, please click here for info to enlarge your......sausage." Dinner sausage! Get your minds out of the gutter people!  Or someone hacked into it and overcooks your food.
But it's a matter of time before all appliances are "internet ready"
To get this back on topic, right now, the internet, broasband or dialup, is a luxury. One day, that will change. | |
| | | | 
N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Karl Bode :How about in five to fifteen years, when your copper is gone, and a single fiber or coaxial line runs into your basement and fuels everything, including your phone, television, stove, and grandpa's iron lung? Does basic data connectivity stay in the "luxury" category then? When fiber replaces copper everywhere (many years from now), one of 2 things will happen. Either local telcos (or whoever is offering the fiber) will decide it's cheaper to offer their POTS service over an all fiber network, and offer customers voice service only over a fiber connection, or the cost to offer broadband along that existing fiber will be so inexpensive, it will become an add on to whatever replaces the traditional POTS system as we know it.
Some above use the argument that electricity was once a luxury item. While this is true, it is a poor argument. In the time electricity was a luxury, most people heated their homes with coal or wood, and could survive in the cold without electricity. Anyone here have a gas or oil burning heater that doesn't need electricity to fire and circulate heat through your house? I would think not.
A utility is a service you could essentially, die without. In January and February in the northern states, one could freeze to death without heat. One could not live without water, hence water, sewer, electricity are utilities.
The reasoning behind Telephone service being a utility is it is the quickest way to summons aid in an emergency. EG, medical emergency, fire, etc. I think this is specious reasoning at best, considering so many people are ditching their POTS lines. If POTS is such a utility, why are so many people ditching it? Nevertheless, I accept the argument, not necessarily agreeing with it.
Sorry, I don't see where broadband fits into the utility category. I lived my entire life without broadband until 1999 when I was one fo the first people in my neighborhood to get a cable modem. We didn't have cable TV until 1995.
As far as your stove, and grandpa's iron lung, I as of yet to see either one of these devices powered by a broadband connection....
The day you convince me someone would die or freeze without broadband is the day you'll convince me it's a utility. | |
| | | | |
Sarah
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2001-01-09
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| Re: A What...? said by N3OGH :A utility is a service you could essentially, die without. That's just a definition you made up, that doesn't make it true. 
Dictionary definition of "public utility" from www.m-w.com:
"a business organization (as an electric company) performing a public service and subject to special governmental regulation"
That's all. No one said it has to be a life-saving technology.
--
The devil makes work for idle hands, but Stanford makes work for idle CPUs! | |
| | | | |
lyls
@tele.dk
| drowning in sewage ? btw im sure theres people who have lived without a telephone for a very long time and i think the internet already has become quite popular and useful and it'll only become more essential to our lives..... of course not in a "get it or die" kind of way | |
| | | | | 
Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
Premium
join:2002-12-17
Huntsville, AL
| Before we had cable tv, we used our DSL to stream weather info and storm warnings. Of course, before we had DSL we used dial up for that, but that was back in 99 before most weather sites became so bloated with excess crap. Anyway, the point is that without that, we would never have known there was a hurricane coming untill it hit.
--
"There's no such thing as a soul. It's just something they made up to scare kids, like the Boogeyman or Michael Jackson." - Bart Simpson | |
| | | | |
Captain Obvious
| Per your example of people dropping their POTS lines for VoIP - wouldn't that begin to make broadband a utility? After all, if you depend wholly on your VoIP phone for connectivity, then you could potentially die if the connection goes down and you have a life-threatening emergency.
Personally, I don't feel that POTS *OR* broadband should be considered utilities in the same way that gas, electric and water are. The latter provide requirements for living (i.e., the ability to stay warm in the winter and to cook food) The former are simply means to communicate more easily.
However, following the reasoning of POTS being a useful means of getting help in an emergency, it really isn't that far of a leap to make broadband a utility as well. | |
| | | | | |
N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: A What...? said by Captain Obvious:
Per your example of people dropping their POTS lines for VoIP - wouldn't that begin to make broadband a utility? I didn't mention VoIP anywhere in my post. I was referring to people ditching POTS lines in favor of wireless phones.
In addition, as I mentioned earlier, I believe it's specious reasoning to consider a POTS line a utility for the reasons mentioned, I simply accept that it's an argument made to classify such service as necessary. | |
| | | |
Aggie Dan
Stop... Reverse That.
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Frisco, TX
clubs:
| said by Karl Bode :How about in five to fifteen years, when your copper is gone, and a single fiber or coaxial line runs into your basement and fuels everything, including your phone, television, stove, and grandpa's iron lung? Does basic data connectivity stay in the "luxury" category then? You have to be provided your dial-tone. Plain and simple. They can't just rip up your copper and not replace it. The mandate that there be rural phone service will guarantee that you have phone service. If you have phone service you will have some connectivity to the internet. Admittedly, the speed may stink. But, you'll have connectivity.
--
Note : The statements made by myself are my own and not the opinions of my employer or of my coworkers. 15.81 GHz Crunching Power | The Ryan Foundation for MPS Children | |
| | |
Sarah
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2001-01-09
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| said by Murray3 :said by Asmodeus :Listen, the ability to access the internet regardless of method is a LUXURY!!! period... Yup. I don't see how it could possibly be deemed a Utility. I could survive without Broadband... but would not fair so good without water, electricity, etc. How exactly does electricity keep you alive?
--
The devil makes work for idle hands, but Stanford makes work for idle CPUs! | |
| | | |
See 13 replies to this post | |
| | john262
join:2003-09-26
Elko, NV | Agreed. I had dialup for several years before getting DSL and at the time I got along with it just fine. It's not that I would want to go back to it now, but it definitely is just a luxury. | |
| | 
Aquaman1940
join:2004-08-10
Chesapeake, VA | What if utilities depend upon it? Then what is it considered?
(Not an argument for it, just a question.) | |
| | | 
jerichohol
join:2002-05-12
UK | Re: A What...? Its not a natural utility (as yet :P) water, gas, electricity are all things which you need for a house.
Telephone and Internet - depending on your perspective, I don't think they have reached that stage as yet | |
| | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| said by Asmodeus :everytime government decides to step in to subsidize or provide a service, it more than likely ends up becoming a failure... Oh yea, that U.S. Highway that got me to work today at 65 mph: what a failure.
That GPS system that got me "unlost" on the trail last weekend, and that allows trucks to be dispatched with the maximum efficiency: pretty much a failure, too.
Those firefighters that saved my neighbors' lives a few months, ago: another failure.
Too bad all the gov't money spent on ARNANET decades ago was such a big waste. I hear it turned into something call the "internet", which nobody uses these days.
If you're going to state ideological absolutes, at least check if they're true first.
Me, i'm more of a pragmatist. Most of the time, market-based forces work best. But even the the most devoted free-market economist will tell you that specific cases of "market failure" exist. In cases, some form of gov't intervention is needed to correct this, whether it takes the form of regulation, incentives, private/public partnering, or outright public ownership.
In most countries, incentives and targeted private/public partnerships seem to work pretty well. But here the "gov't screws everything up" crowd won't let that happen. | |
| | | 
LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
| Re: A What...? said by PDXPLT :said by Asmodeus :In most countries, incentives and targeted private/public partnerships seem to work pretty well. But here the "gov't screws everything up" crowd won't let that happen. Yeah, and that's why America has become the wealthiest, most productive country in the world. The "private/public" (read: public, since the distinction between socialist and communist is worthless) partnership in health care really has worked well in Canada, hasn't it, where you have to wait up to nine months to get a cat scan. We'll see how China does trying to take over, but keep in mind, with their system, the people have to oppressed to keep it going. --
"You cannot separate fools from their foolishness, even though you grind them like grain with mortar and pestle" (Proverbs 27:22). | |
| | | | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| Re: A What...? said by LegoPower77 :Yeah, and that's why America has become the wealthiest, most productive country in the world. Yup, that's right.
We have the cheapest, most plentiful supply of food in the world, and we have massive government subsidies.
We can move people and goods quickly and efficiently over and extensive government-built system of superhighways.
Everyone has access to electricity, thanks to the Rural Electrification Project and the TVA.
We lead in scientific and technological breakthroughs, thanks in part to large government funding in the NSF.
We used to do these things. They were considered necessary for a wealthy, productive, country. Now people like you label them as "communist". I guess you want the whole country to be like, say, Mississippi. With attitudes like that, places like China and India are going to eat us for lunch in 50 years or so. At least I won't be around to see it. | |
| | 
SpitefulCrow
Insert Witty Tag Here
Premium
join:2003-06-04
Berkeley, CA
| Yeah. That government assistance in extending electricity and water utilities to the public was a failure. Right.
As was the government regulation of telcos that ensured that every area got POTS deployed.
The Internet wouldn't even be around in its current form had the Department of Defense not initiated the creation of ARPANET.
Worst troll ever. | |
| |
FTCXtreme
join:2005-03-14
New Braintree, MA
| The problem is this, Im am stuck on dial up, and want to get on broadband. Seeing how Verizon has recently told me I coudl get DSL, and I jsut ordered, that may change but tis highly unlikely, as verizon has todl me countless times before, and they lie. There is no cable, in my town, big deal no cable, Cable TV sucks anyway(porn videos have blurss on Cinamax). Is cable a necessity no! Is broaband a necesity, NO! Should I have the right to get affordable(under $50 a month), YES. Broadband is and is not a utility at the same time, I serves the people, but is not essential. Do I need to paly Xbox Live, Socom II, Counter Strike or any other PC games, NO! Do I want to download things fast, and play on Xbox Live YOU BET YOUR ASS I DO! Do I think the US BB penetration ratign @ 16th is BS, yes, I counts BB users, not who can get it and who can't. Soem peopel chose not to get broadband, cause they dont need it or afford it. I do feel, I have the right to get a 768k DSL package, c'mon people, Is it antiruralistic(my new word) yes! This is America, and This is 2005 and im on 1980s technology, knock off the crap and get em to deploy. For the sake of our economoy and our childrens P2P habits. IT ISN'T FAIR, and I a rural customer deserves the same service as some Urban customer. | |
| | | 
Shadow01
Premium
join:2003-10-24
Wasteland
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: A What...? said by FTCXtreme :The problem is this, Im am stuck on dial up, and want to get on broadband. Seeing how Verizon has recently told me I coudl get DSL, and I jsut ordered, that may change but tis highly unlikely, as verizon has todl me countless times before, and they lie. There is no cable, in my town, big deal no cable, Cable TV sucks anyway(porn videos have blurss on Cinamax). Is cable a necessity no! Is broaband a necesity, NO! Should I have the right to get affordable(under $50 a month), YES. Broadband is and is not a utility at the same time, I serves the people, but is not essential. Do I need to paly Xbox Live, Socom II, Counter Strike or any other PC games, NO! Do I want to download things fast, and play on Xbox Live YOU BET YOUR ASS I DO! Do I think the US BB penetration ratign @ 16th is BS, yes, I counts BB users, not who can get it and who can't. Soem peopel chose not to get broadband, cause they dont need it or afford it. I do feel, I have the right to get a 768k DSL package, c'mon people, Is it antiruralistic(my new word) yes! This is America, and This is 2005 and im on 1980s technology, knock off the crap and get em to deploy. For the sake of our economoy and our childrens P2P habits. IT ISN'T FAIR, and I a rural customer deserves the same service as some Urban customer. And this great country that you live in allows you to start that service in your area if no one else will. Just be your own BB provider and quite whining. You could move if BB is that important, we do have to make choices in life sometimes. It's not always about you.... Luxury until the government steps in and creates a universal service of BB and subsidizes deployment to the rural areas. This 'great' move will then create the need for a 'provider of last resort' and then you have the makings of a monopoly and guaranteed returns on investment. | |
| |
FTCXtreme
join:2005-03-14
New Braintree, MA
| Electricity is not needed for life, You can live without electricity, but it was funny watchign all them New Yorkers walk down the street during the blackout, Then the news keeps on sayign it was SO HORRIBLE, OH NO I CAN'T TURN ON A LIGHT! I can see in instance of a hospital its bad, but for regular life? Seriously. As for running water, what do you mean by running water? A town selling you water? Out here we do not have town provided water and have WELLS, I can see town provided water is necesary for anypalce over 5,000 population.As for phone, I is not essential but its damn good to have, and is not a luxery. As for Internet, Internet is not a luxery, and not a necessarily needed item, but it is necessary for many things. As for apliances on this internet, WHY? Why would you need your washer on the internet? Your stove? Dryer, Dish Washer? I do not see the need to connect to the internet to wash you cloths, dish, cook some eggs, and have a cup of coffee. To me it just doesn't seem practical, say soemone hacks into your stove, and turns the gas on, you wake up go to cook soem eggs BAM! your house blows up. Of course you know this will happen, everythign will becoem internet oriented, and broadband will be necessary, for everyday life. IT WILL HAPPEN IT JUST A MATTER OF TIME! | |
| | |
Captain Obvious
| Re: A What...? Dude, the knowledge of how to survive just doesn't get passed on to city dwellers. That is why these services are so critical. Without power, a whole host of systems go down in a large city. People are at much greater risk, especially in the summer or winter. The same goes for water and gas.
Essentially, without these services, cities would fall apart just like they did in the middle ages - of disease and death. The elderly and the very young would die off first, but eventually the disease would become so rampant that people would be forced to flee. It might not be so bad in the spring or autumn, but eventually the heat and cold would set in, and it would all start to fall apart.
So, perhaps in your (most likely) rural area, you may be able to do without - but for most people, it isn't much of an option.
That said, I am a hiker, so I have a water purification system, hiking stove, and the knowledge of how to get on quite nicely with minimal supplies. However, I would say I am a fairly rare type around here. | |
| klinker
join:2002-08-27
Schenectady, NY | Depends on your circumstances. If you consider telephone a utility then a VOIP user might consider internet a utility.
If a state requires you to file your taxes electronically and you prepare your own returns, wouldn't you require internet access to file them. | |
| melonduck
join:2004-07-19
Atlanta, GA | it all depends what is luxury now could be a necessity ten years down the road
even now, what is a luxury to you could be a necessity to others
for some people, internet access is a necessity
for example, people who work from home? | |
| 
vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| I think the dictionary can help us with this A "right" is something that human beings are entitled to, rights cannot be taken away except in cases where society finds the individual has violated the social contract (or 'violated the law' for conservatives who hate the concept of a social contract). Current utilities aren't considered rights (see what happens if you don't pay your electric bill) and so I don't see how broadband would be different.
As for the "utility", a commodity is only a utility if provided by a public entity. So in the case of public WiFi, I guess that's a utility.
That leaves "luxury", which implies that it's somehow unimportant. I think most of us who use the internet as a very integral part of our lives would disagree.
I guess it's not an either/or/or proposition. | |
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J D McDorce
Premium
join:2001-12-29
Westland, MI
| Re: I think the dictionary can help us with this said by vpoko :As for the "utility", a commodity is only a utility if provided by a public entity. So in the case of public WiFi, I guess that's a utility. Merriam-Webster Online defines utility as a service (as light, power, or water) provided by a public utility and a public utility as a business organization (as an electric company) performing a public service and subject to special governmental regulation.
Where things get FUBAR is that both my telco and cableco, an individual entities, meet the definition of a public utility, since they both provide a public service and are subject to special governmental regulation (for POTS and basic CATV, respectively). Broadband is a service and, in each case, is provided by a public utility, which would tend to meet Webster's definition of a utility. However, cable internet is not subject to special governmental regulation - does that mean that it is not a utility? Since my monthly bill for DSL includes a line item for USF fee, does that mean that it is subject to special governmental regulation, therefore is a utility?
I don't think that the dictionary helps with this one... | |
| 
xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA | it is a luxury. period. | |
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Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD | Re: it is a luxury. maybe currently, but in the years to come it will be a necessity (somewhat). 5, 10, 20 years ahead.
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foamy | |
| 
Dagda1175
join:2001-06-17
Goleta, CA | Seriously.... A right? YOU'VE GOTTA BE KIDDING. Unplug. Go camping. Shoot, should better cars be a right? I mean, there ARE people stuck driving pintos. Should this sad condition stand???
*sigh* | |
| 
DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| Clarity... Okay there isnt any state run utilities, whether it be electric, water, telephone. all are all private, and semi private. However I dont understand how in metro ny there could be a reason for no access to High Speed internet. Plus everyone in the entire US can use dialup. (AOL). If anything the solution is to encourage Verizon, cablevision and time-warner to fill in the gaps and not waste more money from tax payers. For example, when "franchise agreements" or city taxes come into play. Tell the cable they have to provide access to these areas or not get renewed. | |
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Fatal Vector
@aol.com
| Re: Clarity...
The Government wants internet access because it is much easier-and CHEAPER-to require you to use E filing and direct deposit. They dont have to pay people (Provide JOBS) to provide you the services you are entitled to and pay for with your rapacious taxes, never mind making it harder to access your government (Get ahold of someone with any authority. You see this now when you call for customer service. You CANNOT get to ANYONE with any authority. all you get is the scripted line, especially because they are being monitored and they know it) to address greivances AND the tighter level of control it gives them.
The same goes for the corporations. Why do you think the companies that provide your water, electricity, gas, credit cards, etc are so hot for you to sign up for direct access to your bank account (or, direct deposit for your Government checks-Social security, etc REQUIRES direct deposit) for bill paying? You basically give them permission to raid your account any time they want and what are you going to do about it, sue them?
They want a cashless society, pilgrim, (witness the commercials and comeons from your bank about how EASY it is to pay your bills online. It's so EASY to sign up too) because that gives them TOTAL control over you by default (since they will basically control your access to your finances) and the fiber to your home/job/business will facilitate this.
High speed will come, dont worry, because it is in THEIR interests long term to roll it out. And, when they have all those databases tied together and indexed and sorted, they'll know and remember more about you than you do yourself and they'll hand you that swipe ID card and you'll start to wish you hadn't wished for broadband. By then, though, it will be too late and there will be no escape for you. Better think about what you wish for, or, the things you dont pay attention to as you go along in your fat and happy comfortable existance. It's called incrementalism. You might just find you're just another worker drone fat and happy in his little slice of heaven. IF, that is, you even have a job good enough to support that little slice of heaven.
Dont read anything stupid into this question, it's simply a thought, but, likely most of you have read the book 1984 and know who "Big Brother" is. How is it, do you think that Big Brother would have had all those two way "Telescreens" in every room of every building? It would have taken something like a high speed internet, wouldn't it...? | |
| 
maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Define Utility..... Nowadays, Utilities are usually paid for per usage. You take long showers you pay more for water. Its basically that way with every utility that you have. Water. Gas. Electricity. Phone.
Internet is still flat fee. You do not pay for usuage per byte (although there are a few exceptions).
Now go back in history..... pretty much all Utilities mentioned above started off as a flat fee service. You paid a flat fee, and you got as much electricity you needed. This was of course in a time where the light bulb and an odd device here and there were the only real usage for electricity. As soon as the twenties came along, and more and more electrical appliances came to a household the electricity became metered and you paid for what you used. The same with gas and water, and depending on where you live some larger buildings and/or living communities still share a flat fee gas or water price, but it is getting very rare.
Internet could be a utility, but will it be billed as one? $14,95 for your base Internet connection, with 2 free Gigabytes to overcome packetloss, and free local traffic if you download your software and video services from the local server. (Microsoft patches etc could be put on there).
In the future, I expect that Internet will become as a phone line. You pay a base rate. You can local tollfree "calls" on your local network where many downloadbles can be found, and you pay a fee per Gigabyte that you grab from the outside world. Mail and Usenet services are from the ISP itself so "local toll free" so to speak.
Will that ever happen? With the way broadband is going down in price, there's a good chance that it will.....
By the way, fast internet is available in all 48 states and possible HI and southern AK as well..... by DirecWay satellite or some other provider using satellites. Not great for gaming, but great for webbrowsing and downloading as a family.
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And i'm right. I'm always right, but this time I'm a little more right then I usually am. | |
| Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Pay per GB. Well, the internet used to be pay per usage. IF you had used the internet in the 90's you'd know that you used to have a certain number of minutes (because everything was dial up) that you could connect to your ISP. If you went over that, you got hit with charges that are synonomous with cell phone overages. | |
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basket case
Premium
join:2005-02-28
right here? | Re: Pay per GB. the hell you say?! MORON..... | |
| JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
|  Broadband is a luxury.A nice one to have.
If high speed internet disappeared off the face of the earth today it would make finding information and communication much slower but it would not be the end of the world. Example.- instead of downloading some porn you would have to get your lazy ass up and go to neighborhood video store.The shame!:o | |
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Fatal Vector
@aol.com
| Re: Broadband is a luxury.A nice one to have.
Well now...considering how much society depends on the internet now, business, private and government, it would be the end of this world as we know it, going back to the old ways and getting information would be nearly impossible.
The old days had some things to recommend them, but they hadf many bad things too. The problem here is that the old ways have not been passed down from generation to generation and, therefore, would have to be invented again. This would be a royal nightmare, especially considering the current population density of mouths to feed/clothe/shelter.
Never mind the logistic nightmare of food distribution without computers and interlinking of same, among other things. It's never as simple as those who dont think first think | |
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Fatal Vector
@aol.com
| Re: We need it like its 1885
Yes...the grandkids will laugh...but maybe not. They'll have discovered what worker drones they are and how their employer controls their life via that E Paycheck, without which they cannot live, except, perhaps on the streets with a black markrt barter system, because that swipe card will be your personal collar around your neck. Driver License, credit accounts, personal/medical ID...I'm sure you get the idea. | |
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Captain Obvious
| Re: We need it like its 1885 The fact that we are being treated as "worker drones" has less to do with how we are paid, and more to do with the fact that, as a whole, workers have lost their bargaining position. No longer do workers have a say in whether a job gets done or not - complain to much, and your job will be shipped to Bangalore, while you will not.
I'm far more worried about a government that seems intent on wiping out the last vestiges of the middle class by encouraging this sort of behavior than I am about getting paid electronically. BTW - a large number of people ALREADY get paid electronically. I've been using direct deposit for over 6 years. | |
| 
DrTCP
Yours truly
Premium,ExMod 1999-04
join:1999-11-09
Round Rock, TX | It will be a utility (eventually) Some many thing will be tied to it at one point that it will be inevitable integrated part of life.
In particular when copper is gone and one fiber will be serving Voice, Video and Data (triple play) | |
| 
TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
·Sprint Broadband D..
| This calls for scientific method. I propose an experiment for all you who are saying "luxury": let's take the BB entirely out of the county in which you live for 5 years, and measure the economic growth against the next BB-equipped county over.
Of course, the coyotes and tumbleweeds that will be rampant in your deserted county will make the exit measurements pretty hard to take...
Buncha damn mean-spirited "let 'em eat cakers" is all. | |
| | joemaloy
join:2004-12-21
Tonopah, AZ
 ·StarBand Communica..
| Re: This calls for scientific method. Fireplaces dont use Electricity,for heat. Candles dont,for light. Outhouses dont use water, for sewer.
All things that we have today at one time WAS a luxury.
I live in a part of the country where people dont have a water well or city water, they have a sistern.
It really depents on whether or not you have these things or not.
Then thats a thought, Why cant I become a Water utility and force the city to let my use their pipes.... | |
| | |
Fatal Vector
@aol.com
| Re: This calls for scientific method.
Fireplaces do make smoke, among other potential problems like chimney fires, candles dont give much light and require skills to make, as well as materials and outhouses breed germs and diseases, (which is why in towns and cities where people are packed together in high density, there are health codes, the most basic parts of which are running water and sewers) never mind other obvious problems. Cisterns are backup water sources. Most rural water comes from wells (that use electric pumps, therefore the cistern in case the pump fails. In case you dont know what a cistern is, it's a giant water tank that collecys rain water for drinking, etc in an emergency. Be sure to boil it before you drink it).
No matter how you slice it, life, while possible without electricity, running water and sewers is damn hard and much more dangerous. | |
| 
joetaxpayer
I'M Here Till Thursday
join:2001-09-07
Sudbury, MA
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Haves VS have nots There is a case to be made that students who have access to Broadband will have an advantage over those who don't. Libraries tend to close around 5-6 pm. The kids with no access or no computer for that matter will fall behind.
We are fast getting to the point where dialup is unusable. A coworker of mine remarked to another "thank's for that $%^&* file". I came to understand it was a 9MB file and tied up the guy's line for hours. I got the same email and it took a few minutes, it loaded while I wasn't even looking at my computer.
The other guy won't pay for the broadband, and his ability to function as an employee actually suffers. Yes, I've mixed in two different issues here.
JOE | |
| 
Fluker
join:2005-04-07
West Lafayette, IN | luxury Internet access is one of two things
•a tool
•entertainment
Broadband is one of two things
•luxurious entertainment
•A tool that provides luxury via less waiting
commercial pipes have their obvious uses | |
| | 
Voyager2K2
join:2001-10-04
Wayne, PA
·Verizon FIOS
| Big Apple Arrogance "Although New York City residents and businesses have access to an array of high-speed telecommunications connections and services that no other city can match, there are specific parts of the city where access is limited, such as Hunts Point in the Bronx and Sunset Park, Brooklyn," said Mayor Michael Bloomberg."
Yeah right.
I forgot NYC was the center of the Universe.
Bloomberg is full of crap in the first part of his statement.
The second part?
Well Duh. That's where the po' folks live. | |
| |
The Monkey
I like bananas
Premium
join:2000-10-08
New York, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Big Apple Arrogance said by Voyager2K2 :Yeah right. I forgot NYC was the center of the Universe.
Then consider yourself reminded.
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The Monkey | |
|
Jade1523
| Utility I have to consider it a utility that should be available to anyone WHO IS WILLING TO PAY FOR IT. It is not a right, any more than having electricity or a driver's license is a right. I am totally worn out with the arguments I keep reading about people whining that it's available in their area but they think the government should provide it for free. That is absolutely assinine. They have electricity, heat, running water and phone service. Is the goverment paying for those too? I hope not, and if they are, I don't even want to know because I want them to start paying mine as well if they're doing it for other people.
I chose utility because I can't consider broadband a luxury considering the price. I have 6 megabit commercial account, and that costs me only $95 USD per month. The standard consumer accounts are much cheaper. If these people can afford to pay for a computer, they can afford to pay a few bucks a month for their Internet connection. I don't care to subsidize them. I subsidize enough stuff as it is. | |
| 
Nightshade
sic semper tyrannis
Premium
join:2002-05-26
Salem, OR
| Broadband is a Luxury....For Now
I think that Muncipial Broadband is an exellent idea so long as the private sector does not deploy, nor provide broadband service in those areas that the private sector considers unprofitable for some reason or another.
However, broadband is not a RIGHT. You can connect with the internet with a dial-up connection and in fact I have been using BB for a little over two years now. Before then I was using a dial-up connection since 1990 to go online. | |
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Is Broadband a Utility? A Right? A Luxury?
