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 |  Kearnstd Elf Wizard Premium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ
| Re: $700M doesn't sound much like crippled to me however if they provide a service for everyone then they have a right to complain about the torrents. right now they have zero right to complain about them because they do not provide a legal method of programming aquisition to Cable customers short of what is broadcast on available cable and network outlets. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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 |  |  |   meh37
@verizon.net
| Re: $700M doesn't sound much like crippled to me Not just the NFL, but any and all major pro sports--guys getting paid millions of dollars per year to run around a court or a field playing with a ball. It's just speculation of a different kind than the financial speculation that is now ruining this country's economy. Ad speculation: idiot merchandisers and advertisers paying billions of dollars on the off chance that someone seeing one of their ads will want to shell out a few dollars to buy something of theirs.
And people wonder why the economy is heading down the tubes. | |
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 |  |   Dogfather Premium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA | It's their intellectual property, of course they have a right to complain. We have a right to flip them the bird, but they do have the right to complain. | |
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 |  |  |   baineschile 2600 Premium join:2008-05-10 Sterling Heights, MI | Re: $700M doesn't sound much like crippled to me The millions they were pulling in every week with ad's, $100+ ticket prices, venue cuts, their own network, and payments from local broadcast affiliates arent enough? | |
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 |  |  |  |   Dogfather Premium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA | Re: $700M doesn't sound much like crippled to me It's never enough, just like the amount of money you make is never enough. | |
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 |  |  |  |   Matt Take me down to the paradise city Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by baineschile :The millions they were pulling in every week with ad's, $100+ ticket prices, venue cuts, their own network, and payments from local broadcast affiliates arent enough? That doesn't matter. What matters is will NFL fans pay more? Let's not begrudge a company that can make money. You can watch your local NFL team (in most markets) over-the-air for free, so I don't see a problem with them trying to expand their business.
And the NFL has nothing to do with why cable TV rates are high. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   dadkins Can you do Blu? Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: $700M doesn't sound much like crippled to me said by Matt :And the NFL has nothing to do with why cable TV rates are high. So, when the NFL and sports networks are asking for more money, the cable company eats that cost and doesn't raise our rates? Monday Night Football is on ESPN. ESPN is notorious for charging higher and higher rates to cablecos(and Sat) for the "right" to carry the network.
Since ESPN is carrying MNF, doesn't that trickle down to *us* as higher rates? MNF is NFL. MNF is on ESPN. ESPN is on Cable. NFL wants big bucks to carry MNF. ESPN likes to raise rates on a whim. Cable passes that cost to *ME*/us.
Conclusion: NFL does cause cable rates to be high and increase. Right? -- Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   Matt Take me down to the paradise city Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: $700M doesn't sound much like crippled to me said by dadkins :said by Matt :And the NFL has nothing to do with why cable TV rates are high. So, when the NFL and sports networks are asking for more money, the cable company eats that cost and doesn't raise our rates? Monday Night Football is on ESPN. ESPN is notorious for charging higher and higher rates to cablecos(and Sat) for the "right" to carry the network. Since ESPN is carrying MNF, doesn't that trickle down to *us* as higher rates? MNF is NFL. MNF is on ESPN. ESPN is on Cable. NFL wants big bucks to carry MNF. ESPN likes to raise rates on a whim. Cable passes that cost to *ME*/us. Conclusion: NFL does cause cable rates to be high and increase. Right? All NFL broadcasts are up for bid when the contract expires. ESPN outbid ABC for Monday Night football.
So your conclusion is a logical fallacy. Just because two things are indirectly related doesn't mean one is the result of the other or directly responsible for a specific result. In this case, the NFL isn't responsible for cable rate hikes because ESPN outbid all the other networks for the rights to carry Monday Night Football.
ABC/CBS/NBC would be the more appropriate entities (but equally incorrect) to blame. Because they didn't bid a higher amount you now have to purchase cable to watch MNF rather than simply attaching rabbit ears to your TV. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  rifleman69
join:2006-04-12 Beaverton, OR
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: $700M doesn't sound much like crippled to me said by Matt :said by dadkins :said by Matt :And the NFL has nothing to do with why cable TV rates are high. So, when the NFL and sports networks are asking for more money, the cable company eats that cost and doesn't raise our rates? Monday Night Football is on ESPN. ESPN is notorious for charging higher and higher rates to cablecos(and Sat) for the "right" to carry the network. Since ESPN is carrying MNF, doesn't that trickle down to *us* as higher rates? MNF is NFL. MNF is on ESPN. ESPN is on Cable. NFL wants big bucks to carry MNF. ESPN likes to raise rates on a whim. Cable passes that cost to *ME*/us. Conclusion: NFL does cause cable rates to be high and increase. Right? All NFL broadcasts are up for bid when the contract expires. ESPN outbid ABC for Monday Night football. So your conclusion is a logical fallacy. Just because two things are indirectly related doesn't mean one is the result of the other or directly responsible for a specific result. In this case, the NFL isn't responsible for cable rate hikes because ESPN outbid all the other networks for the rights to carry Monday Night Football. ABC/CBS/NBC would be the more appropriate entities (but equally incorrect) to blame. Because they didn't bid a higher amount you now have to purchase cable to watch MNF rather than simply attaching rabbit ears to your TV. ESPN and ABC are the same company nitwit. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Matt Take me down to the paradise city Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: $700M doesn't sound much like crippled to me said by rifleman69 :ESPN and ABC are the same company nitwit. Actually, Disney owns them both. ESPN and ABC are operated as subsidiaries. So ABC does not own or control ESPN whatsoever. Really, before calling someone a nitwit you should at least do a cursory Google search. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  DannyZ Gentoo Fanboy Premium join:2003-01-29 Erie, PA | It is functionally the exact same company since ABC Sports merged with ESPN and _all_ sports broadcast on ABC is by ESPN | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Matt Take me down to the paradise city Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: $700M doesn't sound much like crippled to me said by DannyZ :It is functionally the exact same company since ABC Sports merged with ESPN and _all_ sports broadcast on ABC is by ESPN You are correct. ABC was losing money on Monday Night Football, so Disney requested they move it to ESPN. I read the specifics somewhere once, but I can't remember where. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  DannyZ Gentoo Fanboy Premium join:2003-01-29 Erie, PA | Re: $700M doesn't sound much like crippled to me That was after the merge I believe. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |   robbob340 K.U. Sweet 16 Premium join:2001-02-15 Wichita, KS
| said by Matt :All NFL broadcasts are up for bid when the contract expires. ESPN outbid ABC for Monday Night football. So your conclusion is a logical fallacy. Just because two things are indirectly related doesn't mean one is the result of the other or directly responsible for a specific result. In this case, the NFL isn't responsible for cable rate hikes because ESPN outbid all the other networks for the rights to carry Monday Night Football. ABC/CBS/NBC would be the more appropriate entities (but equally incorrect) to blame. Because they didn't bid a higher amount you now have to purchase cable to watch MNF rather than simply attaching rabbit ears to your TV. But with Disney owning both ABC and ESPN one has to draw the logical conclusion that they (both Disney and the NFL) realized they could make higher profits going the route of cable/satellite (maybe less viewers from an advertisements standpoint, but hey, they can make up for it by increasing the costs of ESPN) over ABC (who had meandering ratings for a number of years prior to the switch). In turn cable/satellite subscribers are now paying for the "privilege" of MNF instead of being available on a free basis. In a few years I fully expect the Fox NFL games to go to their cable channels also. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Matt Take me down to the paradise city Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC | Re: $700M doesn't sound much like crippled to me An assumption does not make a conclusion logical. I would argue that assumptions are more often wrong rather than right. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Dogfather Premium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA | Re: $700M doesn't sound much like crippled to me Your assumption that assumptions are more often wrong rather than right is conjecture. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   baineschile 2600 Premium join:2008-05-10 Sterling Heights, MI | LOL, I live in Michigan. The lions have been blacked out here the last 4 home games (another lovely NFL rule) | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   td100776 Premium join:2002-12-19 Manalapan NJ
| Re: $700M doesn't sound much like crippled to me said by baineschile :LOL, I live in Michigan. The lions have been blacked out here the last 4 home games (another lovely NFL rule) I don't know how to say this but you haven't really missed anything. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  Kearnstd Elf Wizard Premium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ
| said by baineschile :LOL, I live in Michigan. The lions have been blacked out here the last 4 home games (another lovely NFL rule) the local TV stations should violate the blackout and just mark it as "Breaking News" and teach their achors to sportscast -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   Matt Take me down to the paradise city Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by baineschile :LOL, I live in Michigan. The lions have been blacked out here the last 4 home games (another lovely NFL rule) Buy a ticket then and support your local team or tell your local station to pony up.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_(···t_policy | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  Kearnstd Elf Wizard Premium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: $700M doesn't sound much like crippled to me i personally think blackouts should be illegal, honestly the NFL has no right the citizens of the city that make the team what it is can't watch the game on TV. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Dogfather Premium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA | Re: $700M doesn't sound much like crippled to me Of course they have a right. It's their intellectual property. They don't have to broadcast the game on TV no more than a band has to broadcast a live concert on the radio. | |
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  No to ESPN
@sbcglobal.net | No Money from Me Why anyone would spend money to see sports when I can get it free from the air is beyond me. The money that is being spent by others could be used for more useful purposes like buying a new car to keep the country going. | |
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 |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02 | Re: No Money from Me Why anyone would spend money to see sports when I can get it free from the air is beyond me. Out of market fans can't. And ESPN's Monday Night Football and NFL network are not over the air... | |
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 |   antdude A Ninja Ant Premium,VIP join:2001-03-25 | How do people watch games that are not OTA? :P Not all games are shown OTA! | |
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 |   MrMaster What If Premium join:2000-12-16 Austin, TX clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by No to ESPN :
Why anyone would spend money to see sports when I can get it free from the air is beyond me. The money that is being spent by others could be used for more useful purposes like buying a new car to keep the country going. Little short-sighted aren't we? Tell me how I can watch my beloved Packers living in Texas and it isn't a nationally shown game. | |
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 HeavyC
join:2004-03-31 | Just take the whole thing PPV and get it over with... That's where this is inevitably heading. Make each game individually available as PPV, and keep a few nationally marketed free games each week. The NFL Network produces and broadcasts it all in house. | |
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 |   major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Stepford, CA clubs:
1 edit | Re: Just take the whole thing PPV and get it over with... said by HeavyC :That's where this is inevitably heading. Make each game individually available as PPV, and keep a few nationally marketed free games each week. The NFL Network produces and broadcasts it all in house. Yeah, then the NFL can be just as sub par as the NHL with Center Ice. PPV is a fantastic option to generate revenue for the league and
(1) Screw fans every year at exponentially high prices (2) Games arbitrarily blacked out for no apparent reason (3) Schedules of the games broadcast change on the drop of a dime without any prior notice to the subscriber (4) A good portion of certain games are broadcast on other channels your cable co. doesn't have that you thought when you signed up for Center Ice you were going to get.
PPV is an outstanding vehicle for the league. Fans not so much. I was going to say perhaps it would decrease the price of cable, but I seriously doubt that. The NFL is not solely responsible for exponentially increasing annual price hikes for cable. I have no doubt that even if the NFL went the way of PPV as the NHL has gone, cable TV subscribers would still get the yearly price hikes from the providers.
-- The Toll
Tracking Lord Stanley
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 |  |   bent not broken Premium join:2004-10-04 Loveland, CO clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Just take the whole thing PPV and get it over with... said by major marco :said by HeavyC :That's where this is inevitably heading. Make each game individually available as PPV, and keep a few nationally marketed free games each week. The NFL Network produces and broadcasts it all in house. Yeah, then the NFL can be just as sub par as the NHL with Center Ice. PPV is a fantastic option to generate revenue for the league and (1) Screw fans every year at exponentially high prices (2) Games arbitrarily blacked out for no apparent reason (3) Schedules of the games broadcast change on the drop of a dime without any prior notice to the subscriber (4) A good portion of certain games are broadcast on other channels your cable co. doesn't have that you thought when you signed up for Center Ice you were going to get. PPV is an outstanding vehicle for the league. Fans not so much. I was going to say perhaps it would decrease the price of cable, but I seriously doubt that. The NFL is not solely responsible for exponentially increasing annual price hikes for cable. I have no doubt that even if the NFL went the way of PPV as the NHL has gone, cable TV subscribers would still get the yearly price hikes from the providers. A lot of the issues you see with Center Ice have to do with the transmission facilities where the game is being played, at least that's what I've heard. I've also heard that The League is working to correct those issues.
Go Avs! -- »www.lp.org/issues/family-budget
"That government is best which governs least" - Thoreau | |
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 |  |  |  beaups
join:2003-08-11 Hilliard, OH
| Re: Just take the whole thing PPV and get it over with... That's a very fair analysis...but doesn't ESPN have an automatic advantage in the bidding process knowing that they can just simply pass the costs on to the cable co's and ultimately us? It would seem the national networks don't have that advantage.
But everyone is missing one important part of the equation. the PLAYERS/MANAGERS/OWNERS/etc....this is a big reason why it all costs so much. | |
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  n2jtx
join:2001-01-13 Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
| Please Don't As I am not a fan, I could care less what they do as long they do not decide, after 2010, that it is a "must carry" on cable and all customers have to get and pay for it. It is already obnoxious enough having to get the costly ESPN, ESPN2 and Yes! with no choice in the matter. Hopefully NFL will stick with exclusive deals and leave the general public alone. -- I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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 |   HappyBunny Hi. Cram It. Premium join:2001-06-23 Long Beach, CA
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Please Don't I am an out of market Browns fan, and I have seen every game this year, someplace on the net. Just have to get some good "sources". Sometimes the quality isnt that great but as long as I can see my team, I dont care.
I dont think I should have to pay hundreds of dollars to see a game that I would see for free if I lived in Cleveland. With all the channels available, why not put all the games on and just support it by charging *advertisers* like Fox and CBS do?
And with the way the Browns have played this year, I am extra glad I didnt get Sunday ticket! | |
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 Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22 Des Plaines, IL | Cable does not have the room for Sunday Ticket HD Cable does not have the room for Sunday Ticket HD. Also MBL EI, NBA LP and NHL CI only have 1 HD channel as well. Direct tv has then in HD with dual feeds on some games as well. | |
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 |   joekuz
join:2003-03-13 Calistoga, CA
| Re: Cable does not have the room for Sunday Ticket HD This whole NFL only for DirectTV has always left a bad taste in my mouth. Especially since just a year ago the NFL was on a campaign against Comcast for charging extra $ for the NFL channel....With claims of monopoly and to contact your state govt. to complain about it & to switch to other Tv providers...ex. DTV
Then they turn around this year with this crap....Sunday Ticket for DTV only...but what really sealed the crappiness of this deal was NFL.com offering ppv games to customers except for USA residents....! -- AMD 3700+ (san diego)@2739 Asus A8N-sli deluxe 1GB Corsair PC3200 Chaintech 6600GT @540/1.2 WD Raptor 36GB Antec Trupower 430W etc..... | |
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  ramsfansam
join:2002-08-27 Springfield, MO
·AT&T Southwest
| Quality sucks. Watching a game on the 'net is like watching a movie on Youku...buffering every 15 seconds, more pixelization than Carter has liver pills, and audio so out of synch it's like watching an old Godzilla movie. (Should that have been Godzirra?) It's a step in the right direction for those of us forced to watch the KC Chiefs instead of the Rams. I'd much rather the local Fox/CBS affiliates pull their heads out of their asses and realizes not everyone in Springfield likes the Cowboys and Chiefs. | |
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 |   BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
| Re: Quality sucks. said by ramsfansam :Watching a game on the 'net is like watching a movie on Youku...buffering every 15 seconds, more pixelization than Carter has liver pills, and audio so out of synch it's like watching an old Godzilla movie. (Should that have been Godzirra?) It's a step in the right direction for those of us forced to watch the KC Chiefs instead of the Rams. I'd much rather the local Fox/CBS affiliates pull their heads out of their asses and realizes not everyone in Springfield likes the Cowboys and Chiefs. Must be your connection. | |
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  FLATLINE1
@rr.com
| NFL Sucks It may already be too late. The NFl is going backwards. In the early days the NFl was available to anyone interested. Gaames on regular TV and news in every paper and sports magazine. They increased their visability with new shows and special events but now its getting harder and harder to stay interested. Battles with cables companies ( I can no longer view the NFL network) and going to the actual game costs way too much. Unproven players are given waaay to much money and the Jersys and licensed good have gotten out of hand in price. Meanwhile theres better things to do Like movies and video games. Especially here in Buffalo where our owner doesnt care and it shows. The product sucks and they threaten us with a move. HEY NFL Take your Buffalo Bills and get out!! Ralph Wilson is a fossil and a joke! | |
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