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 |  BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Re: The RIAA sounds like a mortgage banker. said by Mr Matt:  Just like the mortgage bankers that are holding mortgages for homeowners whose mortgages are upside down so far that they cannot pay them off in two lifetimes, the RIAA wants Jammie Thomas to be an indentured servant to them. In her case she would not be able to pay the judgment in 100 lifetimes. Remember this is a civil matter. Next step for our corrupt lawmakers would be to open a debtors prison for her. Time for citizens to protest to their lawmakers against laws that overstep rationality toward big business. yes content shuld be free. Screw the big corporations don't they know they should be legally required to spending billions makin entrtianment for us to enjoy for free. Where thyea re supposed to ge these billions form I'm not sure but it doesn't matter WE DEMAND FREE STUFF. That's the AMERICAN way! Welfare, foodtamps, heathcare, music, movies, games, tv it should ALL be free! Not to mention utilities housing too. No one should ever have to pay for anything ever! | |
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| | | | Re: The RIAA sounds like a mortgage banker. What do the artists who actually create the content have to say?
I am in favor of people making money, but I'd rather have my money go to the artists.
Support independent artists. | |
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| | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: The RIAA sounds like a mortgage banker. said by fifty nine:What do the artists who actually create the content have to say? It's irrelevant. They sold their soul to their label, who in turn hired the RIAA to protect their interests. The artists have minimal, if any, say in these matters. | |
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| | | | Ahh, you mean we should all incorporate? I mean welfare (tax breaks), foodstamps (incentives), healthcare (paid politicians), music (outsourcing), movies (fat cat bonuses) are all part of the rights of corporations. If she was smart, she would have incorporated, then she could flaunt the law as much as she wanted, and let the corporation take the blame. Everyone knows, if a CORPORATION breaks the law, the penalty is far less than if a person breaks the law.
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Remember 1 in 4 people are retarded. 25% of Americans are Republican. Coincidence? I don't think so. | |
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| | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: The RIAA sounds like a mortgage banker. If her corporation violated the copyrights, it would have been facing this lawsuit. If she violated the copyright while employed for the corporation, she's still personally liable. | |
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| | | | | | Re: The RIAA sounds like a mortgage banker. Incorrect. Any law violated while employed by the corporation is the responsibility of the corporation. That's what a corporation IS, a fake person, which can't be jailed. If she was working for said corporation when she downloaded the songs, she would not be held liable in a CIVIL matter.
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Remember 1 in 4 people are retarded. 25% of Americans are Republican. Coincidence? I don't think so. | |
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| | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: The RIAA sounds like a mortgage banker. If the law was violated at the behest of the corporation, then yes. However, if I infringe on copyrights at work for my own personal gain, I'm the liable party, not my corporation. | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: The RIAA sounds like a mortgage banker. Karl, I agree with Openbox9.
And regardless, if it is not for personal gain and the corporation is found to be guilty, then the officers can be held accountable, hence "pierce the corporate veil" | |
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| | |  ironwalker World RenownedPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-31
Keansburg, NJ | said by karlmarx:Ahh, you mean we should all incorporate? I mean welfare (tax breaks), foodstamps (incentives), healthcare (paid politicians), music (outsourcing), movies (fat cat bonuses) are all part of the rights of corporations. If she was smart, she would have incorporated, then she could flaunt the law as much as she wanted, and let the corporation take the blame. Everyone knows, if a CORPORATION breaks the law, the penalty is far less than if a person breaks the law. Agreed!
Keep yourself incorporated, keep your wealth under the coporate bubble, some overseas wealth management, then claim bankruptcy...start a new corporation and continue.
Thats what coporations do when they get class action suits against them and lose....they claim bankruptcy, never pay a dime, start over under a new corporation...done!
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| | Reviews:
 ·WildBlue
| said by BF69:said by Mr Matt: Just like the mortgage bankers that are holding mortgages for homeowners whose mortgages are upside down so far that they cannot pay them off in two lifetimes, the RIAA wants Jammie Thomas to be an indentured servant to them. In her case she would not be able to pay the judgment in 100 lifetimes. Remember this is a civil matter. Next step for our corrupt lawmakers would be to open a debtors prison for her. Time for citizens to protest to their lawmakers against laws that overstep rationality toward big business. yes content shuld be free. Screw the big corporations don't they know they should be legally required to spending billions makin entrtianment for us to enjoy for free. Where thyea re supposed to ge these billions form I'm not sure but it doesn't matter WE DEMAND FREE STUFF. That's the AMERICAN way! Welfare, foodtamps, heathcare, music, movies, games, tv it should ALL be free! Not to mention utilities housing too. No one should ever have to pay for anything ever! You're right they should start charging everybody $2,500 a song! They have been too easy on us!
He is not defending getting the music for free. What he is saying is that $2,500 per song is ridiculous.
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| | Reviews:
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| said by BF69:said by Mr Matt: Just like the mortgage bankers that are holding mortgages for homeowners whose mortgages are upside down so far that they cannot pay them off in two lifetimes, the RIAA wants Jammie Thomas to be an indentured servant to them. In her case she would not be able to pay the judgment in 100 lifetimes. Remember this is a civil matter. Next step for our corrupt lawmakers would be to open a debtors prison for her. Time for citizens to protest to their lawmakers against laws that overstep rationality toward big business. yes content shuld be free. Screw the big corporations don't they know they should be legally required to spending billions makin entrtianment for us to enjoy for free. Where thyea re supposed to ge these billions form I'm not sure but it doesn't matter WE DEMAND FREE STUFF. That's the AMERICAN way! Welfare, foodtamps, heathcare, music, movies, games, tv it should ALL be free! Not to mention utilities housing too. No one should ever have to pay for anything ever! Yah but does the punishment fit the crime? 2250 per song, or roughly 1000 per song as the RIAA settlement would have it. She could have walked into a walmart and stolen a few cd's, and she'd get slap on the wrist.
I think most peoples gripe, is the punishments are way harsher than the crime thats being committed. I don't really rank downloading a song to be much worse then speeding (on a highway) or shoplifting. Both which have much smaller penalties.
They should probably using a traffic type system, where get a 200 dollar fine every time your busted.. not 2000. | |
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| | Pv8man
join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN | Hey "BF69"
Who the fuck ever said that everything should be free...
except for you, you are the only one saying that.
I cannot stand people with your kind of mentality "BF69"
I am outrageous that the RIAA gets to make up whatever damages figures they want without any sort of proof.
This could not possibly happen in court if it were a person trying to claim that much damage over intellectual property, it's absolute madness.
The RIAA is doomed anyway, and I hope they die eventually so that they cannot afford to bribe major radio stations to not play independent music. The RIAA is to music, like KFC is to chicken...
Independent artists can flourish through the net with real music, let the people decide what music they like, not the RIAA.
An organization that tries to get a WORLD WIDE SECRET TREATY called the ACTA agreement and conspiring with other governments behind our backs and calls it a STATE secret whenever someone tries to ask about it.
that is absolutely intolerable. | |
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| | |  ReformCRTCSupport Your Independent ISP
join:2004-03-07
Canada | Re: The RIAA sounds like a mortgage banker. BF 69 is a corporatist shill, as you can tell. Worse yet, he's a RAYS fan. | |
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| | | |  birdfeedrPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
kudos:5 | Re: The RIAA sounds like a mortgage banker. said by ReformCRTC:BF 69 is a corporatist shill, as you can tell. Worse yet, he's a RAYS fan. Camden is within 60 or 80 miles of Nashville, so it's easy to see the influence of the music culture on him. I was in Nashville not too long ago. I noticed the dearth of MP3 players while in the area. Nashville folk are really into live music. That's how they support their musicians. Plus you get to support the venue by buying a beer. But hey! wadda ya want anyway.
I got the Highway 69 part, just haven't figured out BF yet.
Anyway, he isn't a corporatist shill, he just likes to engage in argument. Whatever side gets him the most contrary reaction is just fine. | |
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| | | | |  cline3621Mr. Yuk is MEAN Mr. Yuk is GREENPremium
join:2006-06-14
Clarksville, TN
 ·CDE
| Re: The RIAA sounds like a mortgage banker. said by birdfeedr:said by ReformCRTC:BF 69 is a corporatist shill, as you can tell. Worse yet, he's a RAYS fan. Camden is within 60 or 80 miles of Nashville, so it's easy to see the influence of the music culture on him. I was in Nashville not too long ago. I noticed the dearth of MP3 players while in the area. Nashville folk are really into live music. That's how they support their musicians. Plus you get to support the venue by buying a beer. But hey! wadda ya want anyway. I got the Highway 69 part, just haven't figured out BF yet. Anyway, he isn't a corporatist shill, he just likes to engage in argument. Whatever side gets him the most contrary reaction is just fine. I live in Clarksville, Tn. Haha don't bad-mouth Camden like that. 
There is a State Route 69 in Camden, and perhaps the 'BF' means 'Back Fourty' or maybe something profane like...err....well....use your imagination. | |
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| | | | | | birdfeedrPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
kudos:5 | Re: The RIAA sounds like a mortgage banker. said by cline3621:I live in Clarksville, Tn. Haha don't bad-mouth Camden like that. There is a State Route 69 in Camden, and perhaps the 'BF' means 'Back Fourty' or maybe something profane like...err....well....use your imagination. Well, actually I used google.
»www.urbandictionary.com/define.p···ck+Egypt
See definition 2. I'm familiar with Clarksville, although from a long time ago when stationed at Fort Campbell. I did not consider it BFE. I enjoyed my year and a half there. | |
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| | | | | ReformCRTCSupport Your Independent ISP
join:2004-03-07
Canada | BF=Big Fool. | |
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| | | | | ReformCRTCSupport Your Independent ISP
join:2004-03-07
Canada | I like live music, Tennessee, country music, beer AND mp3 players.
Can't all of that co-exist?
But NO, we have a RIAA nazi from the stone age of 8-track tapes posting on an internet message board and being a contrarian prick.
It's hard NOT getting sucked in to the trolls like that. | |
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| | | quatrixPremium
join:2005-02-11
Davie, FL
kudos:2 | said by Pv8man:I am outrageous that the RIAA gets to make up whatever damages figures they want without any sort of proof. Maybe you don't understand how settlements work. If you don't like the terms and you insist that you're not guilty, go to trial. Nobody is "making up whatever damages figures".
And it's too bad, because she could have used the money to spell her name correctly. I'll bet she still pronounces it like "Jamie" even though the double-M makes it like "whammy". | |
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| | | | BF69:
You didn't have to be such a jackass. You couldn't be more on the opposite end of the spectrum from Mr. Matt. Business models need to change! Who would have though Blockbuster would have closed all their brick and mortar stores. iTunes is making money hand over fist with their digital downloads.
I am tired of movie studios and record labels trying to pedal their crap to us and whining about it when it doesn't sell. If you don't like your profits try something different RIAA & MPAA. The younger generation and the generations to come don't need to hold a CD or DVD disk to feel like they own something. Bits and bytes on a hard drive is all the want/need.
Let it go. Shhh shh shh, let it go. Shh sh, ok, let it go. | |
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| openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2
1 edit | Except that the RIAA apparently offered once again to settle for a lesser amount and she still refuses the play ball. She screwed up. Everyone knows it, including her. This case has been an education of how not to mount a defense in a civil case. | |
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1 edit | Re: The RIAA sounds like a mortgage banker. said by openbox9:Except that the RIAA apparently offered once again to settle for a lesser amount and she still refuses the play ball. She screwed up. Everyone knows it, including her. This case has been an education of how not to mount a defense in a civil case. Hardly. The only reason the RIAA wanted to settle was to keep from setting a precedent where the judge lowers the "damages" in a copyright infringement case. Notice that part of the settlement was that the ruling would have to be vacated.
Personally, I'm glad she refused it. If she doesn't have the money, $54k vs $25k would make no difference. | |
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| | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: The RIAA sounds like a mortgage banker. The RIAA already won the case. Precedence is established. While part of the RIAA's second proposed settlement may be about avoiding the judge's lowered settlement ruling, I think it's also about actually squeezing blood from a turnip (multiple connotations there) and to a much lesser extent, public image and that the RIAA is compassionate and willing to work with those guilty of infringement.
I fail to get what refusing the settlement does for her besides delay the inevitable. Given the fact that Ms. Thomas is a turnip with no money, I personally think the RIAA should ask for a judgement that requires her to serve in a line of RIAA advertising that educates consumers as to what copyright infringement is and what the consequences might be. Make her into even more of an example than she already is. Who knows, maybe she'll get an acting gig from the publicity so that she can actually become financially responsible and pay for her poor judgement, contempt, and violation of the law. | |
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| | | | | | Re: The RIAA sounds like a mortgage banker. If they weren't afraid of it setting a precedent, what's the point of demanding the verdict be vacated? | |
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| | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: The RIAA sounds like a mortgage banker. I wrote that it's part of the RIAA's motive  | |
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| | | | | Reviews:
·Cox HSI
| said by digitalfreak:If they weren't afraid of it setting a precedent, what's the point of demanding the verdict be vacated? ^^2nd^^ | |
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| | | | ReformCRTCSupport Your Independent ISP
join:2004-03-07
Canada | The RIAA has about the public image of a bulldozer in a graveyard.
They certainly AREN'T fostering respect for the law, partly because they cajoled the legislators into creating the DMCA, and partly because of their innate stubbornness to change with the times and embrace the opportunities.
Remember that the RIAA only represents the labels, which in turn ostensibly represent the artists. The artists' feelings in all of this are decidedly mixed.
This is quite contrary to RIAA's opinion and fantasy of a common, united front against filesharing and suing individuals.
On a grumpy day, I might like to tell them to take a flying you-know-what.
But I'll *try* to be civil for once  | |
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| | | RIAA/MPAA/IFPI are all asshole greedbags.
stop buying any new music or movies.
buy used at a local used store. | |
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| | What is a song worth? It's real easy...
24/12 (12 song per cd or so) = 2 cd's
2 x $20 = $40
Done | |
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| BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Re: What is a song worth? said by questionable:It's real easy... 24/12 (12 song per cd or so) = 2 cd's 2 x $20 = $40 Done If you kept stolen items in your house and got busted what is the penalty for that? That's basically what she did by making those songs available for download.
If one takes 2 CDs from wal-mart and gets caught you just don't get to pay for the CDs and say "Ooops my bad" and that's it. Especailly if you were also caught trying to fence said CDs. | |
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See 15 replies to this post |
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|  SmokeyI'd rather be skiingPremium
join:2003-05-20
Wild West | If she had only downloaded the songs, yes. The issue, as RIAA claims, is that she made the songs available for download.
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Para Bellum!! | |
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| | BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Re: What is a song worth? said by Smokey:If she had only downloaded the songs, yes. The issue, as RIAA claims, is that she made the songs available for download. The haters seem to ignore that part. And in fact if she had only downloaded the RIAA wouldn't have even bothered going after her. | |
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| | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | And the issue with this case, or most copyright infringement cases for that matter, is that the number of copyright violations isn't known. Whatever settlement or ruling is eventually reached, will be based on a WAG of the totality of wrongdoing. | |
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| | | SmokeyI'd rather be skiingPremium
join:2003-05-20
Wild West Reviews:
 ·Verizon Wireless..
| Re: What is a song worth? I can agree with that. I do believe that there was a stipulation made as to the level of harm done to the copyright holders in this case. The statue allows some leeway on the matter, thus the statutory fines vs actual loss.
I don't think that the RIAA is going about this the right way, but I do support the effort to protect songwriters and publishers from the theft of their work.
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Para Bellum!! | |
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| Migxp1
join:2010-01-28
Lansing, MI | try $0.99 each | |
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BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Jamie supporters please shut it This is on HER not the RIAA. Don't tell me the RIAA is being greedy when they are willing to settle to less than half of the lowered amount. And especially when they offered to settle for $5000 before trial. Also don't say even the $5000 is too much because even if the RIAA offered to settle for $25 she would have refused because she( more likely her lawyers ) want to set some sort of legal precedent. Her lawyers should do what's best for their client not ther careers.
Jamie should be taking her LAWYERS to court. | |
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See 16 replies to this post |
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| | music value This RIAA is a farce and unfortunately it is all legal but RIAA will not get a penny form this person because now she is penniless. The music industry moguls (not the artists) have been handing out slop called music to the public for a long time and making a boatload of money for themselves and now their house of cards is falling down and like any animal when cornered its fighting back but eventually will lose.
If Itunes can offer a "track" for .99-$1.29 legitimately then that should be the fine or some multiplier of that not theis extortion fee base where no one wins anything. | |
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| openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: music value said by BCSman :
RIAA will not get a penny form this person because now she is penniless. Were they getting pennies from her before? | |
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approval from:
digitalfreak 
averagedude
| Ms Thomas' legal team may as well fight. Why not? For some people, such as myself, a $25000 judgment would be exactly the same as a million dollar judgment. Can't pay either, so may as well contest it, if someone else is picking up the lawyer's tab. The end result is bankruptcy, no matter what. | |
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|  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | Re: Ms Thomas' legal team may as well fight. Why not? said by Sinus Jones :
For some people, such as myself, a $25000 judgment would be exactly the same as a million dollar judgment. Can't pay either, so may as well contest it, if someone else is picking up the lawyer's tab. The end result is bankruptcy, no matter what.
Bankruptcy over a $25,000 judgment? I think not. Just garnishee her wages for the next 20 yrs.
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moes
join:2009-11-15
Indianapolis, IN Reviews:
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| riaa HA This is exactly why I only support Independent artist who are not tied to these scum bags. In this economy she is well within her rights to tell them NO. the people of the RIAA will never have to worry about being homeless or worse. They all have it made and need more money so they can rent a skybox at the super bowl. It's plain and simple as my father say's "Simple greed" | |
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|  IT GuyOw, My BallsPremium
join:2004-07-29
Las Cruces, NM
·Comcast
| Re: riaa HA said by moes:This is exactly why I only support Independent artist who are not tied to these scum bags. In this economy she is well within her rights to tell them NO. the people of the RIAA will never have to worry about being homeless or worse. They all have it made and need more money so they can rent a skybox at the super bowl. It's plain and simple as my father say's "Simple greed" My sentiment exactly. Besides, I find that independent artist produce a better quality product when compared to the commercial garbage presented to the mainstream today. The big labels will sign anyone with a catchy single or a good look, or that has shock value, what have you. They exploit their "music" until the masses get bored and move on to the next fad artificially created by the big labels and their cronies.
I find that independent artists' music is much more meaningful, passionate, intricate and thought-provoking than anything produced by RIAA-backed labels. Therefore I have no problem paying for their music and the fact that they don't get their pocketbooks plundered by all the do-nothing middle men makes it that much sweeter.
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Don't worry, scrote. There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives. | |
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| | A song is worth... no more than you're willing to pay for it, which for me is $0.00. (When exactly did any [RIAA member] label last release any song worth having, let alone worth buying? Well, for sure, before they started suing their customers. Sharing? You can't buy advertising like that.) | |
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| Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
1 edit | Re: A song is worth... said by mod_wastrel:no more than you're willing to pay for it, which for me is $0.00. (When exactly did any [RIAA member] label last release any song worth having, let alone worth buying? Well, for sure, before they started suing their customers. Sharing? You can't buy advertising like that.) Actually according to several billion downloads at the iTunes store and other sites it seems to be worth around $0.99 give or take about 30 cents. If the RIAA really wants the judge's ruling vacated they should probably offer to settle for $23. | |
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Migxp1
join:2010-01-28
Lansing, MI | OMG try going after the government for them crimes for real - stop the crimes at the head not the tail. | |
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 funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | Sounds like a legal form of bribery... If RIAA wants to settle for $25K, then it should just settle. To add the requirement that she ask the court to vacate the prior ruling is just bribery. | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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| | Judgement Proof Jamie Thomas is judgement proof. She has nothing. Its extremely hard / impossible to get the courts to authorize a debtor to strip someone of there possetions and leave them pennyless on the street, OJ was an exception to the rule when they took his stuff and auctioned it off.
As long as she has access to an attorney she can fight the RIAA.
If she still owes more than $24 ($1.00 per tack) she will simply declare bankruptsy and make it all go away. All she is prevented from is getting a home loan for 7 years. | |
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| | | Re: Judgement Proof said by mjh2901 :
Jamie Thomas is judgement proof. She has nothing. Its extremely hard / impossible to get the courts to authorize a debtor to strip someone of there possetions and leave them pennyless on the street, OJ was an exception to the rule when they took his stuff and auctioned it off.
As long as she has access to an attorney she can fight the RIAA.
If she still owes more than $24 ($1.00 per tack) she will simply declare bankruptsy and make it all go away. All she is prevented from is getting a home loan for 7 years.
Bankruptcy doesn`t null and void this kind of debt. | |
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| | | | Re: Judgement Proof >>>Bankruptcy doesn't null and void this kind of debt
Actually, in almost every instance, it certainly does.
»www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/···546.html
And even if this debt couldn't be legally "nulled and voided", practically it's the same thing when there are no assets to seize.
Jammie won't ever pay this, unless she wins the lottery. The RIAA has spent a lot of money to get a lot of bad PR. What else has it gotten in return for its money? Has it scared off the other pirates? | |
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| | | | | Re: Judgement Proof Reading this has motivated me to download more MP3's. It's been several months since I've done that, so it looks like I have some catching up to do. | |
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| | | ReformCRTCSupport Your Independent ISP
join:2004-03-07
Canada | the poster probably was thinking of debts incurred by fraud (criminal) which would not be erased in a bankruptcy, as opposed to a civil judgement. | |
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| ReformCRTCSupport Your Independent ISP
join:2004-03-07
Canada | I can understand the occasional typo here and there, but:
Jammie
their (not there)
posessions
penniless
track (not tack)
bankruptcy.
There, my editing is free of charge | |
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The RIAA sounds like a mortgage banker.
