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Japan: 10.52 Million FTTH Customers
Versus 13.48 million DSL customers (and dropping)
by Karl Bode Monday 31-Dec-2007 tags: business · stats · world
Japan continues to lose DSL subscribers as the nation embraces fiber-to-the-home connectivity. The nation's total number of fiber connections grew by 818,221 to 10.52 million, according to the country’s Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications (MIC). The total number of DSL subscriptions fell by 310,955 during the quarter to 13.48 million. There are 3.75 million cable broadband subscribers in Japan, and 27.76 million broadband subscribers total.

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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Population density is good for deployment.

That's the only story here.

WeSRT4

join:2000-11-20
Mobile, AL

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

Very legitimate point. However, most of the densely populated major metropolitan areas here in the US don't have FTTH.
jersey7

join:2007-05-14

1 edit

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

Japan: 872.8/sq mi
France: 293/sq mi
South Korea: 1,274/sq mi
These are the three top countries with the fastest internet speeds.

New Jersey: 1,134/sq mi
How come New Jersey can't offer the same speeds at a comparable price?

Population density is NOT the main reason why the US have not deployed faster internet. It's mostly government policy. We are the only industrialized country in the world with no national broadband plan. We've spend over a trillion dollars in Iraq already. Rather than spend it on some foreign country, we can use a fraction of that to wire the country(and bring actual benefits to our economy).

Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

1 edit

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

Uh, last time I looked Verizon FiOS's fastest plans were available in New Jersey as is Cablevision...to the tune of 50Mb I believe.

Remember, FTTH isn't universally available in Japan either.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
said by jersey7:

We've spend over a trillion dollars in Iraq already.
Blah blah blah. More BDS. Nothing to see here, move along.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.
jersey7

join:2007-05-14

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

said by pnh102:

said by jersey7:

We've spend over a trillion dollars in Iraq already.
Blah blah blah. More BDS. Nothing to see here, move along.
I used the Iraq factor to prove my point about the government. Remember, countries like South Korea have governments that work with providers in getting out FTTH and other new technologies by helping in funding and encouraging these large-scale projects. I'm not saying we should follow the path of the Koreans. But what I am really saying is that we Americans can do much better that what we are doing now.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

said by jersey7:

I used the Iraq factor to prove my point about the government.
I'm not disputing this. We all got that point was that you believe the Iraq War is a waste of money and that the money we spend on it could be better spent on broadband deployment.

We could make the same point about any other government expenditure. For example, we've spent $7 trillion on the "War on Poverty" since the mid 1960s, but we have far more people getting government benefits now than they did in the 1960s with no end in sight.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
Americans are doing just fine. Plenty of residents in Jersey can get FiOS and/or Cablevision and those numbers increase every month.

The gov't has much bigger issues to tackle than giving telcos and cable operators billions to supply everyone BT and Pr0N connections.

Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
Blowing things up is more fun than loading a youtube of some slow kid blowing his hand up with a firecracker in 3 seconds, right? right???

S_engineer
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

Sure, in 5 years that same kid is costing the taxpayers even more money running a tab through our legal system. This way he's saving the taxpayers money by having less fingers to fingerprint!
--
Let's pluck 'im and see if he's ripe!"
- Larry (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)

ROCINANTE
Original Member 007
Premium
join:1999-06-29
Hartsdale, NY
You have proven nothing since you do not understand how government fund accounting works.
--
CRUNCH THIS!

Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
Yeah, and we (taxpayers) spend $60B (3X what Verizon will spend deploying FiOS) a year in Medicare fraud and $350B in Federal taxes goes uncollected every year.

What's your point other than a lame political rant?
jersey7

join:2007-05-14

1 edit

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

Why do you interpret it as just a political rant? The whole point is not to simply criticize the government for everything as you have probably portrayed my statement to be, but to prove the point of potential and to explain the insignificance of "population density in deployment".

Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

said by jersey7:

Why do you interpret it as just a political rant?
Because it's a political rant.
jersey7

join:2007-05-14

2 edits

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

No, you interpreted it as a political rant and you've failed to recognize the larger point of my post of why population density is not the deciding factor others perceived it to be. I acknowledge that I went on a short, small tangent with the government. However the main point still stands.

Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

A political rant by any other name is just as lame.
jersey7

join:2007-05-14

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

And a deliberate misinterpretation isn't?
I'm not going to sit with you and argue with you. The fact that you can't see the whole point even after my reiteration for my original reply demonstrates your lack of understanding and carelessness to even read the post and my reply throughly as I intended other readers to understand the point.

Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

Oh, I read the post and clearly saw your point, which as to Bush bash.

Do everyone a favor and save the political rants for the Red and Blue rooms.
mglunt

join:2001-09-10
Fredericksburg, VA
We get your point. You hate Bush and Oh yeah, you want Socialized Broadband.
jersey7

join:2007-05-14

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

And you must believe pure-capitalism. That is OK. What isn't OK is what's happening at the moment with the state of broadband in the US.

S_engineer
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

said by jersey7:

What isn't OK is what's happening at the moment with the state of broadband in the US.
Man...the state of broadband is the least of our problems.
A war that some people in our own country want us to lose...
Healthcare that is out fiscally out of control...
A social security system that is fiscally out of control...
Federal, State , County, Municipality budgets that are fiscally out of control...
Homeless people, unemployed people, kids that have the motivation of a pea...

But you're right, the state of broadband should take the front burner!!! :{

anon666

@sbcglobal.net
Here's a better argument for ya...

The federal government spends over $250 BILLION a year on the roads, highways, etc. and that's including all the BS pork projects of the politicians. And yet they can't even fix all the roads and bridges that are falling apart or falling down (remember the bridge in Minnesota?) and killing people. And what happened to the levees in New Orleans? Money was supposedly allocated to the tune of $2 Billion worth to fix them 10 or 15 years ago because the Army Corps of Engineers said the levees were not up to par. But in the end, the money was not actually spent on them and we all know what happened to New Orleans.

Now these are all so-called GOVERNMENT RESPONSIBILITIES and are more important than providing broadband to the masses which is NOT a government responsibility!!! And still the government FAILS miserably in these and many other projects. So before you go on and on about the money being spent in Iraq - which by the way is also a government responsibility (its called national defense) and is also currently succeeding believe it or not, you think about how they spend or don't spend money now on other REAL issues in the U.S. that should be handled by the government unlike broadband which should be left up to the free market.

So don't tell me money is being wasted in Iraq and should instead be spent on broadband.

S_engineer
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

Hey anon.....I'll top that with the "darwin gov't responsibility list"....the big dig in boston.

"When Congress originally approved construction of the project, it was to cost $2.5 billion and be completed by 1998. According to the audit, the project's total cost could reach a staggering $13.6 billion - $2.8 billion more than projected just six months ago "

Great...just freakin great!
--
Let's pluck 'im and see if he's ripe!"
- Larry (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

This is what happens when you let corporations feed at the public trough. They will take as much as they can get.
Diddy1

join:2003-07-19
Sidney, NE
said by anon666 :

you think about how they spend or don't spend money now on other REAL issues in the U.S. that should be handled by the government unlike broadband which should be left up to the free market.

Well said.
--
if you fail to plan, you plan to fail

Scatcatpdx
Fur It Up

join:2007-06-22
Portland, OR
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by jersey7:

Japan: 872.8/sq mi
France: 293/sq mi
South Korea: 1,274/sq mi
These are the three top countries with the fastest internet speeds.

New Jersey: 1,134/sq mi
How come New Jersey can't offer the same speeds at a comparable price?

Population density is NOT the main reason why the US have not deployed faster internet. It's mostly government policy. We are the only industrialized country in the world with no national broadband plan. We've spend over a trillion dollars in Iraq already. Rather than spend it on some foreign country, we can use a fraction of that to wire the country(and bring actual benefits to our economy).
Let me put it bluntly Government has the responsibility to protect it citizens hence spending in Iraq. Government has no damed business screwing around with the free market. There is no right to broadband in the Constitution. I do want government to
1. Define what is broadband
2. Tell me via government planning, what kind of broadband I need I know my needs.
3. Force any American via government planning and taxes, to spend on broadband infrastructure for and dubious unproven economic benefits.
4. plan such networks: socialism never works.
You are free to start you own business and by an OC-12 line if you think what the telecoms provided is not fast enough. Just do not involve my tax dollars.
jersey7

join:2007-05-14

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

I apologize for writing the message quickly, but however in a response I have stated that we don't need to follow the system(of the Koreans which is government involvement), but we of course need 'something' that works. I fully understand and respect your standpoint in pure-capitalism and the wonders it has provided for America in the 20th Century. Coming back to my original reply to this thread, blaming our inaction and our poor standing in the world in the 21st Century should not be blamed on 'population density' alone.

Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

4 edits

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

The system works just fine. I've had multi-megabit service from Cox for OVER 10 years. Already millions of people can get FTTH and tens of millions more can get multi-megabit service from competitors and those numbers are increasing by millions a year.

There is no crisis to be solved.

gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
Working as a team is not necessarily socialism. Last time I looked (south) Korea was a democracy.
I would think, with their terrain, they had some obstacles to deployment which they were able to overcome with government help.
For some reason (couldn't be economics), they saw fit to wire their whole country with fiber.
From what I have seen online, the Koreans are one of the most formidable opponents to come up against in any online competition.
I don't see anything more important than bringing the US into the digital age.
While a large portion of Americans are waddling in 1950's technology, the rest of the world is passing us at lightspeed.

"South Korea is one of the world's most technologically and scientifically advanced countries; it is the only country in the world having nationwide 100Mbit/s broadband internet access, full HDTV broadcasting, DMB, WiBro and 3G HSDPA. It is currently the most wired nation in the world, with 90 per cent of homes connected to high speed broadband internet"
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_korea
--
‘Do ye, quieting in your bosoms your strong hearts,
Who of many good things have had your fill even to surfeit,
With what is moderate nourish your mighty desire; for neither will
We yield, nor shall you have all else as you wish.’
Solon

Scatcatpdx
Fur It Up

join:2007-06-22
Portland, OR
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

said by gaforces:

Working as a team is not necessarily socialism. Last time I looked (south) Korea was a democracy.
I would think, with their terrain, they had some obstacles to deployment which they were able to overcome with government help.
For some reason (couldn't be economics), they saw fit to wire their whole country with fiber.
From what I have seen online, the Koreans are one of the most formidable opponents to come up against in any online competition.
I don't see anything more important than bringing the US into the digital age.
While a large portion of Americans are waddling in 1950's technology, the rest of the world is passing us at lightspeed.

"South Korea is one of the world's most technologically and scientifically advanced countries; it is the only country in the world having nationwide 100Mbit/s broadband internet access, full HDTV broadcasting, DMB, WiBro and 3G HSDPA. It is currently the most wired nation in the world, with 90 per cent of homes connected to high speed broadband internet"
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_korea
So what! I admire the Korean People and the food but this is America! 100Mb resdetial brodband and HDTV has nothing to do with America as a world power. I do not give a dam what the Koreans have or willing pay taxes for a government planned system because you want the latest toys. I hate to tell you but watching a DVD on a LCD TV is not 1950's technology. Lose the hype Gorge. I am happy with 6Mb Internet, no cable TV, and my shows on DVD. The rest who want more and expect me to pay for it with my tax dollars can go to hell as far I am concern. If you want 100Mb and HDTV start you own company.

gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

While you may be happy with 6 Mb service there are people 5 miles from me, and probably you, that have no service, or dial-up.
Would you be happy with dial-up?
100 Mb is just a start, in 5 years we will be even farther behind, now were 10x slower, by then we will be 100x slower.
Don't need to hype to see that technology is what is driving the worlds economy now, you can dig your head in the sand if you want, others can see the writing on the ether ...
--
‘Do ye, quieting in your bosoms your strong hearts,
Who of many good things have had your fill even to surfeit,
With what is moderate nourish your mighty desire; for neither will
We yield, nor shall you have all else as you wish.’
Solon
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
Richard B

You will have to explain this to me:

"Let me put it bluntly Government has the responsibility to protect it citizens hence spending in Iraq."

I agree that government has the responsibility to protect its citizens. How does that relate to Iraq?

factchecker

@cox.net
said by Scatcatpdx:

Let me put it bluntly Government has the responsibility to protect it citizens hence spending in Iraq.
The two have nothing to do with each other... And since you used that as the keystone of your argument, the rest of it is pure Randriod drivel.

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
said by jersey7:


New Jersey: 1,134/sq mi
How come New Jersey can't offer the same speeds at a comparable price?

Because Verizon is taxed by the government not supported.

Bow down to what is and will be.

PGHammer

join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
Reviews:
·Comcast
We are also one of the few (if not likely the only) major industrialized nations outside of continental Europe that does not impose high taxes and socialism by fiat (France) have an export-driven economy (Japan and South Korea) or even dare to let the marketplace, not the government, decide what is best for the nation's citizens. Have we forgotten that the United States *exists* because we told our original colonial masters (Great Britain) to take their nanny-state the-King-knows-best political policy and go away?

And some of us have apparently forgotten that.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
said by jersey7:

Japan: 872.8/sq mi
France: 293/sq mi
South Korea: 1,274/sq mi
These are the three top countries with the fastest internet speeds.

New Jersey: 1,134/sq mi
How come New Jersey can't offer the same speeds at a comparable price?
Canada -  3.2/km² (219th)   8.3/sq mi
USA -  31/km² (144th)    80/sq mi
France -       113/km² (89th)    293/sq mi
Japan - 337/km² (30th)   872.8/sq mi
South Korea -  480/km² (19th) 1,274/sq mi
 
Don't compare countries to states. Cable/TV/DSL compete on a national level for the most part. Paying FCC subsidies to backwater areas, and pork barrel spending.

--
Canada = Hollywood North

Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
But they're getting it.

»www.nytimes.com/2006/08/14/techn···zon.html

longstreet

join:2004-11-14
Plano, TX
said by WeSRT4:

Very legitimate point. However, most of the densely populated major metropolitan areas here in the US don't have FTTH.
Consider the size of Japan, compared to the United States, then look up how much money it costs to lay fiber, and re-evaluate that statement.
Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

We're not talking about the entire US, just the 80% of the population that lives near the urban centers.
nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
pop density should make deployment more cost efficient, therefore more profitable, but high pop density doesn't guarantee deployment just like low pop density doesn't preclude deployment.

the OECD looked at how pop density impacted deployment and they found little or no correlation - high pop density areas were no more likely to have broadband than low density areas.

as already alluded to in comments, why don't NY, LA, DC, Boston, Atlanta, etc. etc. etc. all have fiber?

See 6 replies to this post

NOCMan
MacChatter
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO
Not Really.

A more interesting point is where Verizon and AT&T claimed FTTH was too expensive waiting a few years announcing that prices came down (Verizon) while AT&T claims it's a mistake.

Clearly prices have been just fine and considering how everything is made over in that area of the world it makes me wonder who's telling the truth nowdays when it comes to expenses of upgrading their systems. Japan has been dealing with coming out of a recession for years while our economy has been on fire until recently.

I guess is we did not have a child running the FTC and had someone who's balls have dropped things might be different.

Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

What does the Federal Trade Commission have to do with it?

Verizon is deploying FiOS and millions can already get it including you and me. Meanwhile tens of millions get multi-megabit service from cable competitors.

Seems a bit silly when people are crying crisis from their fiber and cable connections.
st7860

join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA
Up here for almost 2 years already the local cable company has been offering a 25 megabit tier. it runs off of common surf board model 5100s and 5101s.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
said by Dogfather:

That's the only story here.
Same tired excuse, you mean.
attsbcisgay

join:2003-03-18
Beverly Hills, CA
Is not density
Its technology advancement
America is in bronze age
Japan is in Iron age.
If you played age of empire you will know what I mean

See 9 replies to this post

longstreet

join:2004-11-14
Plano, TX
metros are getting up to 50/50 FiOS last time I checked Verizon's site
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Re: Population density is good for deployment.

But FIOS is not available in most metros. Take St Louis as an example; 10/1 is currently the fastest available (16/2 is still just a vaporware).

WeSRT4

join:2000-11-20
Mobile, AL

Impressive

Impressive numbers, but does the government subsidize the cost of deployment? Sad to say that I won't see FTTH this decade.

See 6 replies to this post
garmst

join:2000-09-17
New York, NY

MDU's in Japan have Ethernet to the apartment, not fiber

Apartments in Japane get a 100mbit Ethernet drop in the apartment, not fiber to the apartment like Verizon is doing here. NTT delivers fiber to the basement and delivers ethernet after that point. VZ is delivering more bandwidth to the end user than Japan currently does.

This NTT fiber service offering page tells the story:

»flets.com/english/opt/index.html
Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA

Re: MDU's in Japan have Ethernet to the apartment, not fiber

Technically Verizon is doing the same (not sure about apartments). They don't wire fiber up to your bedroom.. just your basement. Then it's ethernet/coax from there.
garmst

join:2000-09-17
New York, NY

Re: MDU's in Japan have Ethernet to the apartment, not fiber

Yes, I do understand your point. I was being careful to say apartments/MDU's as opposed to houses as you are stating. Reading the installation method VZ used in one building in Manhattan, the fiber went in risers up each floor of the building and was then routed to each apartment. Japan does not do this and sends Ethernet up to each apartment in the apartments I saw in Japan.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

quite clear

It's quite clear that some of you don't want FTTP or the next generation of bandwidth increases. That's ok, just don't deploy there.. now if we could get you all together and call that region broadband black hole we'd have a much simpler time wiring the rest of us who want the next generation deployments. Do all that, and the government won't have to subsidize..

longstreet

join:2004-11-14
Plano, TX

Re: quite clear

said by tmc8080:

It's quite clear that some of you don't want FTTP or the next generation of bandwidth increases. That's ok, just don't deploy there.. now if we could get you all together and call that region broadband black hole we'd have a much simpler time wiring the rest of us who want the next generation deployments. Do all that, and the government won't have to subsidize..
Consider the size of Japan, compared to the United States, then look up how much money it costs to lay fiber, and re-evaluate that statement.

Trust me we want it. But . . .as I said above . .
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Re: quite clear

said by longstreet:

said by tmc8080:

Consider the size of Japan, compared to the United States, then look up how much money it costs to lay fiber, and re-evaluate that statement.

Trust me we want it. But . . .as I said above . .
We all know the density & size comparisons which are almost beside the point. There are a dozen or so cable and telephone giant companies to break-up and/or compete amongst the most profitable regions of the U.S. However, as long as you have companies who's interest in profit outstrips the public need for technology, an arcane/draconian copyright rules and regulations, and an economy teetering on the brink of another recession (oil / fuel prices & geopolitics to blame). Not to mention the U.S. is becoming a nation of OLD people(sorry to play the age card). We have many many disadvantages and distractions keeping this from becoming a true revolution... more like a rusty shopping cart wheel of change..

longstreet

join:2004-11-14
Plano, TX

3 edits

Re: quite clear

Part of the issue is that ISP's would rather hoard over their exclusive networks and squeeze as much blood from their customers as possible.

AT&T went bankrupt in the 80's laying cable and now everyone wants another company to do the same w/fiber?

I want fiber ::hell-yeah:: but I'm not as naive to believe a big corporation isn't considering the cost factor.

The corporation cares about 1 thing : money.
Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA

Re: quite clear

No one is talking about wiring Montana or Idaho. We're talking about wiring, NYC, Boston, LA etc.

According to the last OECD report 79% of the US population lives near an urban center; there is no population density/geographic cost challenge difference compared to Japan for those people.

All those telcom's that went bankrupt laying cable (in the 90s anyway) was from laying long haul fiber that went unused because the last mile was too under-built to utilize it, so it lay dark, not generating revenue. I don't care if it cost you $100's to lay it, if it's not generating any revenue, bankruptcy is your only option.
FairmontXF

join:2003-10-02
Australia

FTTH

Hi All,

Fiber is good for lots of things as you probably already know.. Fiber Optic Networking is great to be used in situations for E-Medical stuff for doctors to gather medical information and graphical medical displays of x-rays etc. Bandwidth Speed does make a difference, it just needs to utilised for the correct purposes i guess. This is my opinion and i do respect everyone elses opinions also
DvT Hex

join:2002-01-26
Reno, NV

Bah!

Screw the "major metropolitan centers." The "free market capitalism" system will never provide fiber to Nevada - population: ~2.5million; area: 110,000sq mi; density: 22.7/sq mi. What makes you overcrowded rats-in-a-cage of the major metropolitan centers so special that you should get fiber and we should not?

BTW, the only real problem with Bush bashing is that it is too easy. Just mentioning his name does the job.
jersey7

join:2007-05-14

Re: Bah!

It might not be economically suited to provide fiber to all of Nevada(~2.5 million), but providing it to the Las Vegas metropolitan area(~2 million) is much more feasible.

said by DvT Hex:

What makes you overcrowded rats-in-a-cage of the major metropolitan centers so special that you should get fiber and we should not?
The "free market capitalism" system does.
DvT Hex

join:2002-01-26
Reno, NV
hehe

Apparently not. Free market capitalism just overcharges you for underperforming copper.

wruckman
Ruckman.net

join:2007-10-25
Northwood, OH

Good Job Japan!

at least some people know what is good. unfortunately, it isn't americans. we are lagging behind again people! we need to accelerate our technology deployment in the states ASAP.

NJALondon

@bulldogdsl.com

approval from:
jersey7 See Profile

Population Density

The USA has a population density 50% higher than Sweden, Sweden has just over 27% of its population connected to FTTH. One skewed statistic doesn't tell the whole story.
blakjedi

join:2000-09-13
Rockville, MD

lame lame lame

Government has nothing to do with this issue... except local govt which issue rights of way to this or that company. IN rockville,MD the county seat of Montgomery the wealthiest county in MD in the King Farm subdivision to be exact we have copper wired back to the nearest CO in Gaithersburg (which is less than 21K feet but more than 15K feet) which makes it nigh impossible to get DSL there according to verizon.

But wait lookey here! right across the street from King Farm is......... Comcasts montgomery county HQ! Ahhh I can get high speed cable at Comcast prices!

Wait fiber does have teh 15K limitations that DSL has so thats the answer right...? no. Thats not availabale either! Hmmmm why not? Its a new and wealthy subdivision... i guess teh free market is broken here hunh?

BTW Iraq is national offense not defense. Literally and with Pun intended!

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