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Japan Is The Only Country Future-Ready for Broadband
U.S. is hanging in there in meeting today's needs

A new study has taken a look at the state of broadband in 42 different countries and has determined that although a lot of the countries are up to speed when it comes to what users need today, Japan is the only country that is ready for the future of broadband demand. The countries were assessed “based on actual download and upload throughput, latency, and current and future application requirements”. Many were found to be capable of meeting today’s needs for things like video streaming and video chatting (with Sweden and the Netherlands at the top end of that success list and the U.S. hovering at the bottom but still there). However, the study says that the future of broadband requires over 11 Mbps downloads and 5 Mbps uploads to offer things like HD video streaming, super-big filesharing and consumer telepresence. The only country that has those speeds is Japan. And quite a few countries (including the UK, Canada and Australia) aren’t even up to par with the speeds needed to meet today’s demand for broadband.

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Dogfather
Premium Member
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

4 edits

1 recommendation

Dogfather

Premium Member

Oddly, increased deployment of cheap tiers hurts our aver.

With budget DSL and cable tiers being as successful in terms of sales as they are, results don't really tell us what we need to know. Taking actual speed test results of users (which this study did, taken from Speedtest.net's worldwide test network) reflects more about the frugality of users than what is really available to them. Researchers can try and made determinations of what is available based on what people are buying but they'll never be truely accurate. Unfortunately there is no real way to easily quantify what is available to users so we have to resort to just measuring what they're actually buying thanks in no small part to an apathetic FCC and ISP foot dragging.

For example, I have 20Mb FiOS and my neighbor 10Mb FiOS while both of us could buy 50Mb service should we want to shell out the dough. Speed tests taken from us would simply reflect the tiers we purchased, not really the "state of broadband". Same if I had passed on FiOS and stuck with cable or even DSL.

At least they used a more unbiased and vastly more comprehensive sources than some other so-called astroturf research groups and it's a good first step as to seeing where we are (currently middle of the pack) thus start analyzing where we can improve.
Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Lazlow

Member

Re: Oddly, increased deployment of cheap tiers hurts our aver.

Part of the point is that Japan has 20/20 for less than I have 5/512. If the price of 20/20 here was the same as it is there (sub$45/month) then I would have 20/20. I suspect a lot of other would too.

Dogfather
Premium Member
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

3 edits

Dogfather

Premium Member

Re: Oddly, increased deployment of cheap tiers hurts our aver.

"Japan" doesn't have 20/20 for less, some parts of it do. And again, this data doesn't show what is available, only what people are buying. While 20/20 may be more than you're willing to spend today, the most important factor is that the infrastructure needs to be able to support it. Unfortunately this study doesn't tell us if that is the case or not. Prices, if high now will come down in time. It always does.

But as someone who had 50/20, it's very overrated. Some people here think it would change their lives. I had trouble finding data sources that could even serve me anywhere close to 50Mb.
Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Lazlow

Member

Re: Oddly, increased deployment of cheap tiers hurts our aver.

Most cities have 20/20 available and most large cities have 100/100 available(in Japan for both). The 100/100 has gone up little since the last time I checked. It is now just under $60/month.

»asahi-net.jp/en/service/ ··· tth.html

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

1 recommendation

NormanS

MVM

Re: Oddly, increased deployment of cheap tiers hurts our aver.

Probably 80% of the population of Japan lives in cities, with as much as 60% in the larger cities. The largest cities are on the Kanto plain (Tokyo, Yokohama) and on the Kansai plain (Kyoto, Osaka). Only as far apart as San Francisco from Los Angeles, in California. Move 80% of the U.S. population to those two cities, and suddenly 100/100 Internet will be economically feasible in the U.S.A.
Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

1 edit

Lazlow

Member

Re: Oddly, increased deployment of cheap tiers hurts our aver.

The lines running city to city part of the equation is not the problem. It is within city (node to home, etc) that is the problem. While the density argument is somewhat appropriate, it not nearly as applicable when comparing our cities to their cities. The density differences (their cities to ours) is just not that great. Certainly not enough to account for 100/100 (there) being the same price as 5/512(here).

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

NormanS

MVM

Re: Oddly, increased deployment of cheap tiers hurts our aver.

said by Lazlow:

The lines running city to city part of the equation is not the problem. It is within city (node to home, etc) that is the problem. While the density argument is somewhat appropriate, it not nearly as applicable when comparing our cities to their cities. The density differences (their cities to ours) is just not that great. Certainly not enough to account for 100/100 (there) being the same price as 5/512(here).
Ah. I see. There are as many people in the S.F. Bay Area as on the Kanto plain of Japan (surrounding S.F. and Tokyo Bays); as many people in Greater Los Angeles as on the Kansai plain (Kyoto, Kobe, Osaka). Gotcha!

Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
Premium Member
join:2002-12-17
Wasilla, AK

Boogeyman to Dogfather

Premium Member

to Dogfather
Thats very true. Hell, I have had trouble maxing out my 8/1 connection. But, if we had say, two children and two adults trying to use the connection at the same time, it would slow to a crawl.

So in households where there are multiple users trying to use the connection at the same time, 50/20 would be a massive help.

JJ Johnson
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Fort Collins, CO

JJ Johnson to Dogfather

Premium Member

to Dogfather
said by Dogfather:

With budget DSL and cable tiers being as successful in terms of sales as they are, results don't really tell us what we need to know. Taking actual speed test results of users (which this study did, taken from Speedtest.net's worldwide test network) reflects more about the frugality of users than what is really available to them.
Budget. Only a bandwidth nerd would call a $20/month 1Mb Internet connection 'budget'. Sure, it's cheaper than the $30 tier and the $40 tier and the $90 tier, but for the needs of 95% of subscribers it's overkill.

The benefit of the researcher's approach is that it tests not only end user speed but network capacity, which is the more important determinant of current capabilities. We have a lot 8Mb and 20Mb and 50Mb end-user connections in this country built on top of very cheap, low-bidder networks. It's those networks that dictate our readiness to meet future needs.
ja2007123
join:2007-10-06

ja2007123

Member

Japan is small, that's why.....

ISP in Japan can lay out fiber throughout the country because of the population density. They can make more money and save at the same time.

Just like in New York, many people live on a single apartment building and bringing Fiber is very profitable.

Get my point???

Dogfather
Premium Member
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Dogfather

Premium Member

Re: Japan is small, that's why.....

It's not just density, otherwise NYC would have had FiOS years ago. It's cost, gov't subsidy, competition and most importantly market demand.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: Japan is small, that's why.....

NYC is not a country.
Japan is.
If a company had to only wire NYC, and NYC was the entire country, then it would be done.

Dogfather
Premium Member
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

2 edits

Dogfather

Premium Member

Re: Japan is small, that's why.....

Just like here, all of Japan isn't seeing "big" speeds.

And it's irrelevant whether or not NYC amounts to the entire 'country' or not. Deployment is still a matter of cost, demand and competition.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: Japan is small, that's why.....

Very true, however, being that NYC is a city that is a mere blip in the physical size of the country, and there are typical laws (country, state, county, city) in which companies typically operate, having a company and competition that is in an area as small as the state of Calfornia with a population of half of the U.S., population density of the country itself is quite high, and easier to promote this kind of business. Japan has many high tech innovations because of its population density (high speed trains, 3G/4G wireless).
Government regulation typically helps promote this kind of infrastructure investment as well.
Many countries that have regulated infrastructure typically aid on buildout, sometimes at higher prices. The U.S. industry typically holds out for corporate welfare (aka USF)

a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY

a333

Member

Re: Japan is small, that's why.....

By that logic, France wouldn't have the level of Fiber/ADSL2+ penetration it has as of now. While many southeast Asian countries benefit from gov't-subsidization, French ISP's don't. Nevertheless, companies like Free.fr and Orange have engineered advanced backbones and FTTH networks, years before our own 'big cities' in the states began to even expect fiber. Per se, it took till 2008 for NYC to even secure a damn franchise, while urban centers in France had been enjoying either FTTn or FTTH for years. Even then, many parts of NYC will likely not see a trace of fiber in the next decade or so, given Verizon's track record of broken promises.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

1 edit

en102

Member

Re: Japan is small, that's why.....

France is still a relatively physically small country with decently high population density (overall 114/km2)and is physically smaller than Texas, with more than 4x the density.

Verizon and NYC want to cut deals.

You'd have to compare with Canada or Russia for population density... but then again, Canada gets subsidies in the boonies.

a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY

a333

Member

Re: Japan is small, that's why.....

Nevertheless, it doesn't explain why pretty much no major U.S. city has widespread FTTH or even comparable FTTn yet. Fact of the matter is, our national broadband regulation/plan (if any) is a bungled mess written by the telco's and cable MSO's a decade ago. Now, that doesn't mean gov't needs to directly setup a welfare state. What we need is clear policy that actually creates real competition and brings change(tm) to the market. What we currently have isn't a competition. Thanks in part to our dear leaders' blind eye, telco's have successfully screwed CLEC's, with the lube handed to them by the FCC. The only remaining competitor is cable, whose prices and (often) draconian policies make them sometimes a rather unfavorable choice. What remains? Satellite is out of question, and ALL 3G providers have a 5 GB cap, except Millenicom. Even if you get Millenicom, the speeds/latency leave a lot to be desired.
We had our chance with the Telecom Act of 1996, with CLEC's, and we killed it, paying $40 Billion in the process. France, on the other hand, saw their chance and seized it, creating a competitive environment to the point where CLEC's were powerful enough to actually take on their own FTTH roll-outs, effectively forcing the ILEC to do so as well. We, even the people in major cities, are stuck with our amazing 100-year old copper-based network. Yay... gotta love competition...

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: Japan is small, that's why.....

Basically - it means that there's no demand for it and no regulation to push for it.
US will have lawyers all over regulatory issues, and corporations do not want to deploy w/o having huge profits unless regulations (corporate welfare system) is there to pay for it.
Unless someone has a large profit margin available, and guaranteed, they're not sticking their necks out.

Frank
Premium Member
join:2000-11-03
somewhere

Frank

Premium Member

Re: Japan is small, that's why.....

said by en102:

Basically - it means that there's no demand for it and no regulation to push for it.
US will have lawyers all over regulatory issues, and corporations do not want to deploy w/o having huge profits unless regulations (corporate welfare system) is there to pay for it.
Unless someone has a large profit margin available, and guaranteed, they're not sticking their necks out.
its funny you say that.

/lives in a small town with both verizon fios and optimum online.
//watching them compete like crazy is fun
///got the fios triple play deal w/the 200 amex giftcard and free movie channels for a year
////switching to cablevision once the fios deal offer is over and vice versa
/////slashy slash slash

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

1 edit

en102

Member

Re: Japan is small, that's why.....

FiOS isn't available nationwide

/lives in the 2nd largest city with pewVerse and TWC
//they don't compete here (no VoIP even on Uverse)
///got the $89/month VoIP/HSI/Digital tv for a year on TWC
////UVerse offering +$200 rebates (have to... no VoIP makes Uverse REALLY expensive for triple play)

Many of these physically smaller countries have a certain amount of regulation on the infrastructure that doesn't exist here. Corporations will build where they can either maximize profit or have an interest (i.e. business case, political influence).

Eg. AT&T deploys VoIP at $40/month, except Detroit is $20/month
Los Angeles area has had Uverse for +1 year, yet will not have VoIP because AT&T can make more off of POTS $40=~$53/month after taxes.

Ignite
Premium Member
join:2004-03-18
UK

Ignite to ja2007123

Premium Member

to ja2007123
said by ja2007123:

ISP in Japan can lay out fiber throughout the country because of the population density. They can make more money and save at the same time.

Just like in New York, many people live on a single apartment building and bringing Fiber is very profitable.

Get my point???
ISPs in Japan don't lay fibre throughout, the telco, NTT, have done so in several areas and are obliged to sell access to ISPs.

It's the reverse of infrastructure competition, everyone gets paid and customers get many options with many retail operators competing for their business.

koitsu
MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
Humax BGW320-500

2 edits

koitsu

MVM

Re: Japan is small, that's why.....

said by Ignite:

said by ja2007123:

ISP in Japan can lay out fiber throughout the country because of the population density. They can make more money and save at the same time.

Just like in New York, many people live on a single apartment building and bringing Fiber is very profitable.

Get my point???
ISPs in Japan don't lay fibre throughout, the telco, NTT, have done so in several areas and are obliged to sell access to ISPs.

It's the reverse of infrastructure competition, everyone gets paid and customers get many options with many retail operators competing for their business.
And I will take a moment (as someone who used to work for NTT) to explain to people that NTT is still partially owned and funded by the Japanese government. The government funding is 49% or less, ensuring the government itself does not own the company. I was told it was at 49% back in 2001 or so, that number may have dropped since then.

The point here is, the government is helping finance what the country needs, transport-wise.

This is something that will never happen in the United States, at least not during my lifetime, for political reasons which I will not get into (off-topic). But another reason is that we are just too damn big, physically, for this to be effective. US citizens in no way shape or form will agree to tax increases to fund said growth, but would be significantly more willing to pay such taxes if the program was non-corrupt and stuck to its intended goal -- which we all know would never happen, again because of political reasons which I won't get into.

We're too big, too narcissistic, too stubborn, and too capitalist.
jdjbuffalo
join:2004-01-17
Denver, CO

jdjbuffalo

Member

Re: Japan is small, that's why.....

But the government did fund it here. To the tune of some $200 billion dollars to get everyone a fiber connection.

If you need a reference just check this sites archive.

BIGMIKE
Q
Premium Member
join:2002-06-07
Gainesville, FL

BIGMIKE to ja2007123

Premium Member

to ja2007123
Military budget of the United States
military-related expenses totaled approximately $626.1 billion

Japan $46 billion

More money to the people!

supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL

supergirl

Member

Re: Japan is small, that's why.....

said by BIGMIKE:

Military budget of the United States
military-related expenses totaled approximately $626.1 billion

Japan $46 billion

More money to the people!
No, when companies like the original AT&T sold away the transistor for $50,000, Japan got rich. We also rebuilt them after WW2. Europe was also rebuilt by the U.S. for free after Hitler's reign of terror. Japan's military is limited due to losing WW2.

American business should really get together and pay for the FTTH broadband network about 50-50 with Uncle Sam. Then, the Bells new service (same for Cable HSI), HSI, should be regulated the hell out of. HSI really is the new voice. We give ridiculous grants like $100,000 to create a new Rose flower.

Why we still have textbooks in school is beyond me. Just think of our education on steroids. We could save about $70 billion a year on gas alone with a National FTTH network; most jobs are commutable. It's not hard to see the benefits of a tightly regulated FTTH monopoly with non-Bell, non-Cable influences (other businesses).

But, the U.S. will bailout massive frauds like Countrywide and soon Lehman Brothers. Now, after years of mismanagement like still building gas guzzlers, GM and Ford want $50 billion with low interest loans.

Of course, Empires eventually fall. I think we've been on that road for some time. Watching the "educated" graduate from college without any practical experience and common sense but loads of drinking their professors's, too incompetent to be outside a college most of the time, strange ideas about how socialism will solve all makes me sick. If these kids get in-charge of anything, better hope they develop a brain.
EPS4
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

1 recommendation

EPS4

Member

Re: Japan is small, that's why.....

The original AT&T couldn't take advantage of the transistor itself thanks to the government requiring it to limit its actual business activities on telephone service and telephone service only. If said regulations hadn't occurred, AT&T could theoretically have dominated not only U.S. local and long distance telephone, but Canadian telephone (since they would have kept Bell Canada), wireless, computers, and probably more... Super-Monopoly, here we come!

Most jobs are commutable, but most companies don't want their employees to commute for various reasons... and those that do are cutting back. You can't just add broadband and expect everyone to follow suit. And there are a lot of reasons to keep textbooks in their current form- the paper form is more readable, can be highlighted, and can be resold (the costs of textbooks being what they are, this is significant- eBooks could be slightly cheaper but almost certainly won't be, since there's no competition whatsoever)

supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL

supergirl

Member

Re: Japan is small, that's why.....

said by EPS4:

And there are a lot of reasons to keep textbooks in their current form- the paper form is more readable, can be highlighted, and can be resold (the costs of textbooks being what they are, this is significant- eBooks could be slightly cheaper but almost certainly won't be, since there's no competition whatsoever)
No, textbooks should be free.
EPS4
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

EPS4

Member

Re: Japan is small, that's why.....

Making textbooks isn't free, though... who will pay for the production and effort that goes into making a textbook? (I am aware that many publishers game the system by releasing new editions that just rearrange the homework problems so you can't use used books, but the initial book still had costs)

RaulF
@constellation.com

RaulF to BIGMIKE

Anon

to BIGMIKE
Wow, yes because all that you have today is totally free. I see now some people take what they have for granted. Look at Georgia, what was their military budget???

alchav
join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT

alchav

Member

Are We Going Backwards?

Technology as a whole, I think we are 10 years or more behind. My house was ready 10 years ago to stream Music and Video, but even now the technology is not there. I guess if we were not the Police Dogs of The World our priorities would be different. Japan's government controls their Broadband, and I'm sure their planning is superior to anything we have, if we have any plan. So yes, I'm not surprised that Japan's Broadband is Future-Ready.

Duramax08
To The Moon
Premium Member
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX

Duramax08

Premium Member

Still on dial-up

For me, Im still on dial-up. No one offers anything fast for gaming and downloading. I sent Time Warner Cable an email and they sent it to their construction department. FFS, The line are right there, Just extend them already, Theres 50 houses on our road that still using dial-up!

Frank
Premium Member
join:2000-11-03
somewhere

1 edit

Frank

Premium Member

Re: Still on dial-up

said by Duramax08:

For me, Im still on dial-up. No one offers anything fast for gaming and downloading. I sent Time Warner Cable an email and they sent it to their construction department. FFS, The line are right there, Just extend them already, Theres 50 houses on our road that still using dial-up!
either you're living in a new development or you live in the middle of nowhere.

NetAdmin1
CCNA
join:2008-05-22

2 edits

NetAdmin1

Member

Yet another flawed study...

Why is it that every study of broadband suffers from the exact same flaws - lack of a scientifically gathered and properly controlled data set? This study, while it appears the analysis looks solid and the conclusions are well founded, suffers from the problem that the data used (Speedtest.net's data) has quite a few problems associated with it.

Take a look at the latency numbers in the study. Those numbers are problematic because so many factors can affect the latency value that you really can not draw any conclusions from it. The observable fact that two servers, relatively close to you geographically, can have wildly different latencies from you illustrates the problem. The server admins choice of provider, that providers choice or routing policies and network design, the peering choices and transport choices, you providers' network design and policies, and on and on all affect latency. So, while you may have a sweet, 50Mbps fiber optic internet connection, the possibility exists that a person on a piddly little 256kbps connection can have a better RTT than you. Basically, you can try to draw conclusions from the latency numbers in the data, but because so many factors impact latency, you can't make any meaningful conclusions about it on with respect to the connections quality.

vzw emp
@qwest.net

vzw emp

Anon

Re: Yet another flawed study...

said by NetAdmin1:

Why is it that every study of broadband suffers from the exact same flaws - lack of a scientifically gathered and properly controlled data set? This study, while it appears the analysis looks solid and the conclusions are well founded, suffers from the problem that the data used (Speedtest.net's data) has quite a few problems associated with it.
Studies relating to broadband are never totally accurate because those with the information (the ISP's) needed to do an accurate study do not release the required information. They will hide behind the veil of trade secrecy to avoid having to disclose the truth about their service, what's offered, where it's offered and for what price. They can't be held accountable for what no one can prove (and believe me, if the numbers were good we'd have heard about it from an infinite stream of advertisements bombarding every form of media known to man).

stuckinjapan
@nttmil.net

stuckinjapan

Anon

military installations in Japan

Well I can tell you one thing... The U.s. must really like it's internet speeds because we're still using dial-up and see like-dial up internet speeds aboard military installations in Japan. You only need to step outside the installation gate to get 100mbps for about $25.. go figure.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

11/5

Some places in the US have 11/5+ internet connections. Problem is, as far as I can tell, they're limited to either super-expensive Level3 et al powred business fiber or one of the following:

1. That one ISP in California. Yaknow, the one selling gigabit for $245 a month?
2. Various small FTTH projects like GreenLight, FTTH (what their name is I'm not sure)...and that one up north
3. FiOS
4. OOL

The above do not have coverage everywhere, and their 11+/5+ tier costs $60+ per month in most cases. Again, the rural problem and corporate greed play in here. I cannot get an 11/5 connection from a residential ISP here. I can get what's supposed to be 5/5 from a wireless comapny for $60 but I'm not sure whether they can deliver. Cable would be $90 for a connection that'd break 11 Mbps down (16 Mbps...on 8 Mps right now) and I live literally across the street from my school that has an OC3 running into it. That OC3 heads down the highway a few dozen miles to the Midwest's internet hub (yep, Denver) but I could get better download speeds in the middle of Kentucky.

Yes, the US has internet, in select areas, that can stand up to next yearr's applications, it just ain't here. Or there, for that matter. Or anywhere except a few big cities. Denver doesn't even have consumer broadband that gets above 2 Mbps up (or, in real life, 17 Mbps down...for $110 a month!). Ridiculous? Uh huh.
Kdee9
join:2005-08-26
Etobicoke, ON

Kdee9

Member

Canada's ranking shocks me....

I just read this blog on this subject. Being Canadian, the blogger caught my attention. I like the idea that Canadians should ask their politicians where they stand on this issue:

»itnerd.wordpress.com/200 ··· so-much/

uid1307457
Premium Member
join:2005-12-30
Tempe, AZ

uid1307457

Premium Member

woot

Japan is awesome

cocacola
@avradionet.com

cocacola

Anon

happybroadband

I live in a rural area, and I too am frustrated with my situation. I have a meager 525/525k fixed wireless connection connection, but hey it's better than nothing.

But, I can understand that situation in America is different
than in countries like Japan and Korea. They have less land mass to cover, and a lot of people there live in apartments.

But, I wish someone, or anyone would provide an acceptable broadband at a reasonable price. I can understand that land-line would be not doable because of return of investment/number of subscribes(not sure if this is right, or whatever ratio they're feeding me), but wireless connection can work because of much less investments. But, no one in our "free marketplace" is stepping up and provide us rural folks with acceptable broadband. 5 gig a month limit, slow speeds, and $60 a month, no thanks.

eerrrgg
@direcpc.com

eerrrgg

Anon

wesux

lets see where to begin? well to begin with everything in this country is being run by the proverbial used car salesman, and im not talking about the decent ones either! i mean the really scummy ones that will sell a heap to an old lady and watch in anticipation when dies down the street while counting his hard-earned money! meanwhile in japan they got actual ethics and serve the people. oh well?

oh! and by the way besides the city folks didn't japan address the problem for everyone else by launching a satellite for internet far superior to hughes. »gizmodo.com/377876/japan ··· and-away

mb6
join:2000-07-23
Washington, NJ

2 edits

mb6

Member

3rd World Here we come!

Capitalism has run AMOK! If you draw comparisons elsewhere it becomes abundantly clear!
davidbrown9
join:2005-05-31
Toronto, ON

davidbrown9

Member

all about the goverment

In the end its about the environment the government fosters.
Japan wants the best to win to promote tech development.

Because of this there is a fierce battle between companies to provide better then the other guy and the users win.

Here we have the total opposite and greed rules the day making the users pay.

Still the sort over environment we have now never lasts because the people can only swallow so much before they force change.