  Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Well.. ..they have to pay the celebrities m/billions of dollars some how.
"Harm to the plaintiffs" What a load of bull. | |
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 |  AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1 | martyr for a lost cause... | |
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|  tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3
 ·Comcast
| Re: Well.. And the lawyers (rightfully so as they now spent twice as long in court on this) and court costs. and even the RIAA which finaced the legal fees and costs upto now, and the recording compamy that actually made the invest in the record, but then failed to get all the sales they should have. | |
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| | BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH | Re: Well.. And as usual, the green hair and pointy ears come out.... | |
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| | | tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Well.. said by BiggA:And as usual, the green hair and pointy ears come out....
Because you don't want to hear the truth, that makes me a troll?
what does that make you? | |
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| | | |  spewakR.I.P DadkinsPremium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
kudos:1
 ·SureWest Internet
| Re: Well.. said by tshirt:said by BiggA:And as usual, the green hair and pointy ears come out....
Because you don't want to hear the truth, that makes me a troll? what does that make you? He is the TROLL! Do I win a prize? 
Back on topic, the defendant should file for Bankruptcy just like the big boys do to protect himself.
--
Romney equals Epic Fail! | |
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| | | | | AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1 | Re: Well.. how can Samsung file for bankruptcy?
--
--Standard disclaimers apply.-- | |
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| | | | BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH | If the RIAA is claiming those lawyers are so expensive (they probably were), maybe they should have worked to improve their business model, not spend all their money on high-priced lawyers to try and sue the sh*t out of ordinary people. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Well.. Yes, the free-business model; right?
You cant compete with technology that allows people to watch movies for FREE the day they premier in the theaters.
The dilemma is quite simple, a lot of people have few morals and values. | |
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| | | | | |  sivranOpera convertPremium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
kudos:1 | Re: Well.. Sure you can. Plenty of companies are doing quite well at competing with free. | |
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| | | | | | | | So according to your logic nobody would sell water if there was not a patent correct?
But wait, there are dozens of water companies just in my area alone that all sell water. | |
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| | | | What makes you think that they were lost sales? Who says those people that torrented off of the dude would of bought the song in the first place? | |
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| | | AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1 | Re: Well.. Infringment is not stealing, It is still a crime, but it is not a crime of theft.
--
--Standard disclaimers apply.-- | |
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| Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| quote:
nd the RIAA's tactics of trying to scare everyone into avoiding copyrighted files has never worked as continual piracy rates make very clear.
Karl, youre kidding right? This has ZERO affect? You dont think even a few dipshits read this headline on here and will reconsider BREAKING THE LAW?
I for one, am glad this shmuck got sued, think he'll do it again? Would you at least acknowledge that this lawsuit prevented ONE person from engaging in further copyright infringement?
Simple solution, download legally, everyone wins. $1 a song on Itunes is a lot? Didnt think so. | |
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| | | | Re: Well.. said by ITALIAN926: quote:
nd the RIAA's tactics of trying to scare everyone into avoiding copyrighted files has never worked as continual piracy rates make very clear.
Karl, youre kidding right? This has ZERO affect? You dont think even a few dipshits read this headline on here and will reconsider BREAKING THE LAW? Nope. I've been involved in "the scene" since IRC and piracy is growing faster now than it ever has.
There has been an explosion of growth in DDL and old style hub trading.
More than I've seen in my 7+ years or so dealing with this stuff. | |
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| | | tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3 | Re: Well.. So when we get out the torches, you are among the first we should burn? | |
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| | | | | | Re: Well.. said by tshirt:So when we get out the torches, you are among the first we should burn?
You would burn somebody over copy/paste? | |
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| | | | | tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Well.. If what they copy and pasted was my product, that I and thousands of other worked hard to create and the sale of which was my livelyhood?
I think some probably would, however we have a legal system, which is finding against the priates (interesting choice of terms) more and more.
because the process is difficult and slow you love to proclaim victory.
I cry for those effected by the collateral damage. and the young and inocent drawn in and tainted by your vile behavoir.
You are the "Stranger Danger" we were warned about.
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4 edits | Re: Well.. said by tshirt: If what they copy and pasted was my product, that I and thousands of other worked hard to create and the sale of which was my livelyhood?
I think some probably would, however we have a legal system, which is finding against the priates (interesting choice of terms) more and more.
because the process is difficult and slow you love to proclaim victory.
I cry for those effected by the collateral damage. and the young and inocent drawn in and tainted by your vile behavoir.
You are the "Stranger Danger" we were warned about.
Copying is not stealing unless one considers unnatural notion of owning an idea, method, or concept. ( an idea born out of unbelievable greed )
Good luck making that work. Never has, never will. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Well.. Not a good analogy, not even close. | |
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Well.. said by ITALIAN926:Not a good analogy, not even close.
What analogy? | |
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| | | | | | | | | Ever heard of the concept of patents? | |
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| | | | | | | |
1 edit | Re: Well.. said by ITALIAN926:Ever heard of the concept of patents?
Yes.
Anybody can see our patent system is a failure ( as is the whole concept in general ) | |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Well.. So wouldnt it be STEALING for you to COPY my patented, IDEA? | |
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4 edits | Re: Well.. said by ITALIAN926:So wouldnt it be STEALING for you to COPY my patented, IDEA?
I don't believe one can own an idea
It is such a basic human liberty to think without hindrance.
Apple just won a verdict which includes "rectangular phones". Do you think anybody making rectangular phones is stealing from Apple? | |
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| | | | | | | | | Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Well.. Well believe it, you can. Its also against the law to upload and download copyrighted "works", whether you like it or not. Too f'king bad.
When most people do the right thing, and pay their fair share for music, movies, books, software, etc, What makes YOU so damn special that you can get those things for free? Because you know what a "torrent" is, and have internet access? Big fucking deal.
There are millions of people employed by the existence of copyrighted material, and "idea's" You think its OK to take bread off these peoples tables? I'll never understand how people can lack such simple morals, and certainly not how shmucks like you actually defend this STEALING. | |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Well.. I will ask again:
Apple just won a verdict which includes "rectangular phones". Do you think anybody making rectangular phones is stealing from Apple? | |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Well.. Why dont you bring a citation along? Or perhaps give more details to this "case" which probably consists of 1000's of pages of literature. "rectangular phones" ? I think Alexander Bell still owns that one. | |
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Well.. Doesnt matter if I keep up with them or not. My argument against you stands, COPYing a patented idea is STEALING. I write a song and you copy it, is STEALING in my book, and I promptly kick your ass.  | |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Well.. said by ITALIAN926:Doesnt matter if I keep up with them or not. My argument against you stands, COPYing a patented idea is STEALING. I write a song and you copy it, is STEALING in my book, and I promptly kick your ass.
In the same manner that all "rectangular phones" is stealing from Apple.
Namely, its not. | |
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| | | | | | | | |  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | said by ITALIAN926:COPYing a patented idea is STEALING. No. It's patent infringement. If it was a copyrighted work instead of patent, it would be copyright infringement. Stealing requires the taking of money or property and preventing their use or benefit.
When you have COPIED and idea you are not depriving their use nor are you taking any monies that have been earned.
There is a reason why there are different laws between patent/copyright infringement and stealing/theft, because they are different crimes. | |
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| | | | | | | | | | | said by DataRiker:said by ITALIAN926:Ever heard of the concept of patents?
Yes. Anybody can see our patent system is a failure ( as is the whole concept in general ) What do you suggest? If there were not patentent system their would be no innovation and development of technology. Why would a company spend millions researching new ideas if as soon as they come up with it another company could sell it? Why would google develope the adroid if they could not make money off licensing it. Sure in some hippy world we would have people doing it for the benefit of society but we live in the real world and people need motivation to do things. | |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Well.. said by gustavenla68:said by DataRiker:said by ITALIAN926:Ever heard of the concept of patents?
Yes. Anybody can see our patent system is a failure ( as is the whole concept in general ) What do you suggest? If there were not patentent system their would be no innovation and development of technology. You actually believe nobody would make electronics or develop technology if patents went away?
Ever been to Asia? | |
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| | | | | | | | | Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
| There is nothing wrong with the concept of patents. They exist to encourage innovation by allowing inventors to recoup R&D expenses. Without patents, there is little motivation to spend millions of dollars for R&D. What's the motivation when someone can reverse engineer your product and undermine your ability to recoup your R&D costs? You can't even recoup your investment, much less make a profit, so why would you bother developing any new product or technology? The patent clause of the US Constitution provides as good of an explanation as any for the necessity of patents, I've bolded the two most important parts:
"The Congress shall have the power To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."
The system as currently implemented is deeply flawed and needs reform. If you want to talk about that I'm game, but to claim that the concept of patents is flawed is absurd. | |
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| |
|  elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO | said by Simba7:..they have to pay the lawyers m/billions of dollars some how.
"Harm to the plaintiffs" What a load of bull.
fixed that for you | |
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| | | Most industries already deal with massive piracy, especially in Asia.
Or rather consumers deal with piracy. Some seek out genuine products and know where to find them, others don't care.
Free market in the raw. It works, trust me I've lived it. | |
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| | Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
3 edits | Re: Well.. Data, get a life and pay your fair share. Stop breaking the law. Stop trying to defend immoral behavior.
Ive explained this one million times. When people like you break the law, the entertainment industry raises prices for the rest of us. Its the same concept as department stores having to raise prices to offset the cost of shoplifting. Oh, but you cant use such examples, right? I think its a perfectly legit example. So how would a department store handle shoplifting without SECURITY (lawsuits), and withour raising prices? Make all items in store FREE, just force all "customers" to watch an advertisement before they enter the store?
Further, if everyone on this planet was like you, there would be nothing to download. No music, no movies, no software, no books. These industries need MONEY in order to exist !
YOU download your works for free, (again, like youre sooo special) and I get the luxury of paying higher prices. So in effect, YOU are STEALING, from ME.
You should be embarrased, damn freeloaders. I hope every single one of you get slapped with some kind of massive lawsuit in the future. Not for just making the material available by upload, but individual downloads as well. | |
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| | | | | Re: Well.. Artificial scarcity does not create jobs.
In fact, without it you would have a much more balanced, competitive and vibrant economy.
The end of the world scenario you present is simply not possible.
The model we have today allows vast amount of knowledge to be "bought and owned" which serves to concentrate vast amount of power to the highest bidder.
The morality you present is twisted. | |
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| | | | Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Well.. No, twisted is continuing to engage in unlawful behavior when you know its WRONG. People who are ignorant to such laws is one thing. But outright continuing to pirate AND defending your actions is ridiculous. You dont get to write your own laws my friend. Lawsuits comin' for ya bro. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Well.. Firstly I don't pirate.
I know how to and provide others with the knowledge if they so choose.
That being said (again) I don't find it to be a moral issue to begin with. | |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Not Correct quote:
The Joel Tenenbaum P2P trial has been stumbling around since 2005, when the former Boston University student was first accused of downloading thirty-one copyrighted songs without paying for them.
He was sued for making these songs available for download on Kazaa, not, downloading them directly.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_v···re-trial
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. | |
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|  skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | Re: Not Correct Meanwhile if he stole CDs from a store and "made them available", it would have been community service and 6mo probation.
Gotta love lobbyists and their purchased laws. | |
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| | BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH | Re: Not Correct Exactly. It's total hypocrisy. And insanity. They claim damages, but they still can't prove that anyone would have actually bought the CDs/iTunes if they couldn't pirate them. | |
|
Reviews:
 ·Verizon Wireless..
| Make him pay The amount owed to the record label..
not this fake number but a real amount...
99 cents or 1.29 or whatever it is on itunes now... as well as the lawyer fees/court fees and some of the salary for those who caught Joel...
But if you ask me this is one big joke... | |
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See 23 replies to this post |
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See 12 replies to this post |
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 TwiztedZeroNine Zero Burp Nine SixPremium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:3
·TekSavvy Cable
| Outrageous. And so Joe Blow walks into a WalMart and shoplifts three music cd's (31 songs?) gets caught, pays a hundred dollar fine, maybe gets banned from the store...
... do the same thing online... financial ruin.
Something is terribly off here. | |
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See 17 replies to this post |
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| | Alot ...but... FWIW, It's about precedent, not fairness.
It's not just that he downloaded 31 songs, he also uploaded them (others he shared to the net with, e.g Kazaa, limewire and other sharing software).
Those songs now were downloaded by hundreds of others, now showing that he was distributing software (music) illegally.
Excessive fines, perhaps. But someone has to pay the extortionist, um, RIAA lawyers...
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Splat | |
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| pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: Alot ...but... said by cableties:Excessive fines, perhaps. But someone has to pay the extortionist, um, RIAA lawyers... I'm not crazy about the RIAA but this guy was served with multiple official warnings over an extended period of time. It does suck, but you'd think after the first love note from the RIAA, he'd shred his hard disk and never touch P2P software again.
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. | |
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| | | RIAA should have to go after each individual who downloaded the songs since the individual didn't really upload them. The software just made them available to download. The defendant didn't take any action to explicitly upload the material anywhere else. The law should be changed to differentiate between uploading them to a third party server and simply downloading them to your home PC and as a consequence of the software involved, making them available for further download.
The damages per download should be capped at 3x the retail value of the songs in question. It's ridiculous what the judgements have been in these cases. The violation of the law here shouldn't force an individual into bankruptcy -- there needs to be some balance. It'd be analogous to sentencing a shoplifter to consecutive life sentences in prison for a first offense. If our legislators were really working for the people rather than special interests like the RIAA, this would have been fixed by now. | |
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| | | | Re: Alot ...but... "The damages per download should be capped at 3x the retail value of the songs in question."
It's not about the download but the upload.
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I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company. | |
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skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·Clear Wireless
| Hmmm...$250K med malpractice cap, unlimited for infringement So we have caps on medical malpractice of $250K but the music industry gets over a 1/2 a mil.
Chop of the wrong leg...no big deal, but G-Dit better not make that song available.
Of the corporations, for the corporations, so that profits shall not perish from the books.
Wanna get pissed off?!? Watch and VOTE IN NOVEMBER!
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHiicN0Kg10 | |
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 Pole883Premium
join:2004-01-27
Schenectady, NY
kudos:2 |  Bankruptcy?
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See 11 replies to this post |
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Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1 Reviews:
·CenturyLink
·Comcast
·Embarq Now Centu..
| Was any legitimate way available to download music in 2005? When did iTunes begin offering to download music. When Joel made music available there was no legitimate way to legally download music. Continuing to pursue Joel is like requiring a person to serve out a sentence for violating a law that was eliminated. | |
|
Kamus
join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX | The game was rigged before the trial started. The problem is that the judges are using RIAA math. Or in other words, the game was rigged from the start.
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZadCj8O1-0
Just ask yourself this question. Who has caused more damage? The defendant or the prosecutors?
This person has had his life sidetracked by "legal" bullies. And it's all for nothing too. They are still going to lose control over distribution of media, to the point where they are largely irrelevant regardless of these lawsuits.
Of course, this is a publicity stunt by the RIAA. Very much in the same way that Thomas Edison would burn animals alive with Tesla's electricity to try and stop the inevitable, just because he owned all the patents for DC. He was going to lose anyway, but he decided to be a dick about it just like the RIAA and MPAA are.
This would be a perfect analogy except this is much worse, since it involves people, not animals.
The internet is the "AC" to the MPAA & RIAA's "DC".
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gOR91oentQ | |
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| | the writers for this blog are not that logical Theoretically, the penalty in this case should not be the retail price of the songs...$1. If that were the case EVERYONE would pirate since if you aren't caught you get free songs and if you are caught you merely pay what you were supposed to. If the probability of being caught is 0.1%, much higher than reality, then the expected cost of pirating 10 songs is like 1 cent. Since monitoring for pirates is very hard and it costs a lot to litigate, the monetary penalty MUST be much higher than the retail price of the song. It has to be in the thousands per song, at the least, so that it acts as a deterrent to other pirates.
The actual probability of being caught is probably 1 out of 100K or lower. If the penalty for being caught is 20K per song this means the expected cost of pirating is only 20 cents per song, versus the $1 retail price. | |
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|  NickDPremium
join:2000-11-17
Princeton Junction, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: the writers for this blog are not that logical A VPN costs $5 a month, and the chance of being caught is near zero with that. You have a higher chance of winning the lottery. When the trolls fish for IP addresses, they get the VPN's IP address. They send a letter to the VPN provider who responds by saying that they don't keep any logs. It'll be damn near impossible for the trolls to find the original downloader. | |
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| |  FutureMonAch Du LieberPremium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2000-10-05
Seaside, CA | Re: the writers for this blog are not that logical Except that they could threaten to sue/shut down the VPN unless they cooperated in tracking from that point forward to catch the peep who was using the VPN.
- FM | |
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 kingdome74Emotionally UnavailablePremium
join:2002-03-27
Syracuse, NY
kudos:2
·Verizon FiOS
·RoadRunner Cable
| Didn't Heed The Warnings I'm no backer of a non-governmental agency that can bring criminal prosecutions to court unanswerable to any elected official so don't mistake me for a sympathizer to the RIAA or the MPA. What gets me about this case isn't the fine because it's nonsensical anyway but the fact the kid was warned repeatedly to stop uploading copywritten material. It's not like he didn't know and these people just leaped out of nowhere... surprise! This was sheer pigheadedness and stupidity.
--
If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans - Woody Allen
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| | RTFJ. Actually, if you RTFJ Tenenbaum was either a complete fool or as described by the judge- engaged in WILLFUL MISCONDUCT. He continued infringing for not two but FIVE YEARS, receiving THREE written warnings about infringement from 2002-2005 which he either ignored or blew off, before actually getting sued in 2007. So yes, this judgement is excessive but you can't say he doesn't deserve it. The law may be wrong but it doesn't mean you should blatantly ignore it when you've been warned they have you in their sights. | |
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| | | Re: RTFJ. we the people... oh wait cbs might on that..... really this crap has to stop. who really runs this gov? | |
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| Reviews:
·Mediacom
·RoadRunner Cable
| Yeah, exactly. Tennenbaum acted like an entitled dick through this whole process, deciding the HE was SPECIAL and could just IGNORE all these warnings about legal action. Then he carried his dick-dom right into court and acted all "they're stupid and I'm smart". Typical Ivy Leaguer. He got handed his ass and I'm personally glad.
All Tennenbaum had to do was STOP FREAKIN SHARING SONGS ILLEGALLY, after one or two of the warnings, and he could have gone on with his privileged intellectual Ivy League life. But, no. He had to be a complete dick about the whole thing. | |
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| | | | Re: RTFJ. said by MyDogHsFleas:Yeah, exactly. Tennenbaum acted like an entitled dick through this whole process, deciding the HE was SPECIAL and could just IGNORE all these warnings about legal action. Then he carried his dick-dom right into court and acted all "they're stupid and I'm smart". Typical Ivy Leaguer. He got handed his ass and I'm personally glad.
All Tennenbaum had to do was STOP FREAKIN SHARING SONGS ILLEGALLY, after one or two of the warnings, and he could have gone on with his privileged intellectual Ivy League life. But, no. He had to be a complete dick about the whole thing.
Right on!!
Can't even fix Ivy League stupidity 
--
The Firefox alternative.
»www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/ | |
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| | Bankrupt | |
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|  Nick21
join:2010-02-03
New York, NY | Re: Bankrupt Yeah he could file for chapter 7 to have his debts discharged, I assume this is what most people end up doing. The post here says "unconstitutional" but clearly it IS constitutional because the Supreme Court declined to accept the appeal. | |
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| | vpn Time to renew my vpn. | |
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| | why is a juvenile at the time of the crime faceing an adult why is a juvenile at the time of the crime facing an adult fine? | |
|
looser
join:2001-02-04
La Mesa, CA | Whats next? The time is coming, and it's not far off, where you cache a copyrighted Gif and they will take your house. | |
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| | The only criminal here is the court system. If a song only costs $0.99 each, then, isn't that the value? That makes this petty theft AT BEST, a 3rd degree misdemeanor. If the song is only $0.99, and if all he did was download the song, then it's a travesty of justice to charge him anything more than the face value of each song. This sounds like 3rd world prison extortion, utter corruption. Unless he was making money from another persons copy-written material, then all he did was steal...again, at the very MOST you could argue petty theft. We are the owners of this country, not the government. It starts now, and any law maker that supports this criminal law making, shall be voted out of office...and replaced with uncorrupted, unbiased representatives for us...the people. | |
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 camaro92Question everythingPremium
join:2008-04-05
Westfield, MA
·Comcast
| Just another day Common sense should apply here. There is the crowd who are staunch advocates of the business model here in the USA and have a right to protect there property,then there is the crowed who says they should be able to download whatever they want.
That's not to say that all the pirates are the problem but my observation is now the dinosaurs who are playing catch up and are using the courts as the only solution instead of going to whatever department they have and ask them to think of fresh ideas to keep the money flowing into the company's coffers, then I am sorry but they should die off and get some fresh faces to shake it up and come up with new ideas to help keep a industry that has been sitting on its ass for the last couple of years. The pirates should have opened there eyes years ago to see the trend and instead should have reevaluate there business model instead of going on this scorch the earth policy spending boat loads of cash to catch a snot nosed kid living in his mommy's basement and make a example of him.
I am sorry but this is a tad lopsided. | |
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| | Piracy Also Hurts the Production People I am a video producer and recording engineer. For several years, I have been producing DVDs, annually, for a client that was producing a multipart series on Jazz music methods. He is a famous instructor and his DVDs were selling well.
We usually have the master class at a local university in June. This year, he skipped. I spoke with his manager and learned that he discovered his first DVD on Pirate Bay or Bit Torrent. He was livid and just stopped the whole thing.
As a result, I am down almost $2000 this year on production business. People don't realize it, when they make stuff available unauthorized that they also hurt a lot of other people involved in production--not just the artist. | |
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Tenebaum had a good lawyer - but he was a lousy client
