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Journal Reviews Verizon LTE: Fast, But Pricey
5-10GB caps disappear quickly at 16 Mbps
by Karl Bode 01:15PM Thursday Jan 06 2011
Walt Mossberg at the Wall Street Journal has been testing out Verizon's new LTE network and comes away impressed with the speed -- acknowledging that it should be very fast with so few users on it. The network, recently launched in 38 markets and 60 airports covering an estimated 100 million people, should be fast -- given it's currently restricted to USB-modem users who have the money to shell out for the service. Mossberg of course notes that this high price of entry, which includes having to pay up to $10 per gigabyte, certainly isn't doing your wallet any favors:
quote:
Verizon is charging $50 a month for up to 5 gigabytes of data use and $80 monthly for 10 gigabytes. If you run over, the company will bill you $10 for every extra gigabyte. Such data limits aren’t new, but, with 4G’s much higher speeds, users may find themselves sending and receiving more data more often, and thus breaching the limits more regularly. For instance, in my tests, I was easily able to download a nearly 600 megabyte TV show, something I wouldn’t even try with a 3G modem. That one download would have eaten up more than 10% of my monthly cap under the $50 plan.
Verizon currently wants the high pricing, in order to not only make money (duh) but to better portray this service as exclusive and top shelf connectivity for largely business users. We'll likely see Verizon tinker with pricing considerably after they release LTE smartphone sometime in the middle of this year. As for speed, Mossberg clocks in 16 mbps downstream and 6.6 mbps upstream in Washington DC, but saw downstream speeds closer to 6 Mbps in San Franccisco. As for coverage, Verizon today stated at CES they'll double existing coverage within the next six months.

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dimebagdata

@verizon.net

wireless broadband drug dealer

Verizon's got that fast stuff.. but you're gonna need the bread first...

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7jHMucluGY
hoyleysox
Premium
join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA

UBB will kill newspapers

Ads on sites like newspapers chew up a lot of bandwidth. Usage based billing makes tools like adblocker and noscript a money saving tool. If web users start to block their ads to save $, the web advertising business model that newspapers depend on will go kaput.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

1 edit

Re: UBB will kill newspapers

Much independent content will fail. The websites and forums that create them will be driven under by the use of blockers and so on.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
hoyleysox
Premium
join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA

Re: UBB will kill newspapers

said by KrK:

Much independent content will fail. The websites are forums that create them will be driven under by the use of blockers and so on.

If we go down that slippery slope the caps will be moot because there would be no content online to view.

Unother

join:2005-03-23
West Hartford, CT

Re: UBB will kill newspapers

Erm guys

Hate to rain on your pollyanna parade but the acumen needed to even understand such tools exist lie outside of most users' spheres. Heck these tools have existed on the "desktop web" for nearly a decade, and the advertising model hasn't quite imploded yet has it?

Keep in mind the the CTR/CPM needs for such advertising are already low to require a campaign to be considered a success of any sort.
--
I'm Kreig Zimmerman. Any questions?
hoyleysox
Premium
join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA

Re: UBB will kill newspapers

said by Unother:

Erm guys

Hate to rain on your pollyanna parade but the acumen needed to even understand such tools exist lie outside of most users' spheres. Heck these tools have existed on the "desktop web" for nearly a decade, and the advertising model hasn't quite imploded yet has it?

Most people who use blockers these days use it for security, casual users are unconcerned about that.

My thesis is that a lot more users will start to use blockers if/when they find out it will lower their phone and cable bill. The number of people using blockers will be a function of the cap level and overage prices.

Unother

join:2005-03-23
West Hartford, CT

Re: UBB will kill newspapers

I understand your thesis. I had a corollary in mind which I failed to express:

Not only does "Joe Consumer" not understand the use of AdBlock et al.; "Joe Consumer" also fails to read the fine print on contracts and will often pay monthly bills without complaint, even if they could save $20-30+ a month. Why?

"Opportunity cost".

In the long run it may be worth it for Joe Consumer to pay more because they don't have to spend countless hours mucking about with their computer to optimize their bandwidth usage.

You or I might do that, but we're hardly "normal". We're posting on DSLReports, after all.
--
I'm Kreig Zimmerman. Any questions?
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

Re: UBB will kill newspapers

Well, we do it and then post the results to the masses. Gotta think of that too.
jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3
said by hoyleysox:

Ads on sites like newspapers chew up a lot of bandwidth.

What kinds of ads are you getting? Even browsing all day every day maybe only 1% of your usage will be ads.

Now if you are talking video ads on youtube or hulu, that might be a different story....
hoyleysox
Premium
join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA

Re: UBB will kill newspapers

said by jcremin:

said by hoyleysox:

Ads on sites like newspapers chew up a lot of bandwidth.

What kinds of ads are you getting? Even browsing all day every day maybe only 1% of your usage will be ads.

Now if you are talking video ads on youtube or hulu, that might be a different story....

News sites. They serve video ads. 1% of the bandwidth is represented as queried text content.

kickass69

join:2002-06-03
Lake Hopatcong, NJ

1 edit

What's the point?

Between having any cap at all much less a low cap and high overages, what good was releasing LTE if you can only use it for so little time before realizing the money in your wallet/bank account has done a vanishing act when it's all said and done? Just seems like a huge letdown, alot of promise but too restricting to bother with it. Giving out unlimited data plans to get people to use and get hooked, too successful....now we go backwards with the next gen mobile broadband network while Verizon reaps it all. Pathetic and sad.

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

Re: What's the point?

said by kickass69:

Between having any cap at all much less a low cap and high overages, what good was releasing LTE if you can only use it for so little time before realizing the money in your wallet/bank account has done a vanishing act when it's all said and done?

Speed itself has its own value. I would like LTE speeds for just plain browsing, but I don't necessarily want to start downloading TV shows on a mobile connection just because it is now fast.
BlueC

join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Integra Telecom

Re: What's the point?

I don't see the useful qualities of having 16mbps available versus something like 4-6mbps for just web browsing.

Video would be the primary reason (in my mind) for more throughput. At least until general web browsing requires higher throughput (which lining up a 5mbps connection with a 16mbps connection, you won't notice much of a difference unless there's a variance in latency).

tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
for browsing, latency is king - not speed.

Speed is necessary for large transfers. Photographers uploading photos to FTP sites, for example.

A 5GB cap is quite a detriment to mobile warriors who need to do more than just web browsing.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
said by FFH5:

Speed itself has its own value. I would like LTE speeds for just plain browsing, but I don't necessarily want to start downloading TV shows on a mobile connection just because it is now fast.

You do realize that the only 4G devices available are USB modems for computers. Which means this is meant for PC use not a smartphone. 10 GB is nothing using a PC. If I lived in an area that had no internet option other than dial-up this would NOT be a solution even though Verizon advertises as such.
jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3

Re: What's the point?

said by 88615298:

You do realize that the only 4G devices available are USB modems for computers. Which means this is meant for PC use not a smartphone. 10 GB is nothing using a PC. If I lived in an area that had no internet option other than dial-up this would NOT be a solution even though Verizon advertises as such.

Um, 4g is for smart-phones too. The USB modem just so happens to be the first device released.

10 GB is still a TON of browsing. The only way you'll most likely go through it is by streaming video. Yes, there are other ways to chew through it, but video is by far the fasted as most common way.

So you are saying that having 500 times the speed, even with a 5 gb cap is not an adequate alternative to suffering with dialup?

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: What's the point?

said by jcremin:

Um, 4g is for smart-phones too.

No shit really. Post where i said it wasn't

The USB modem just so happens to be the first device released.

yeah I believe I stated that already. Thanks Mr Redundant.

10 GB is still a TON of browsing. The only way you'll most likely go through it is by streaming video. Yes, there are other ways to chew through it, but video is by far the fasted as most common way.

Well gosh don't you think people in rural areas would like to watch Netflix, Hulu and Youtube too?

So you are saying that having 500 times the speed, even with a 5 gb cap is not an adequate alternative to suffering with dialup?

Nope. Because you don't need 500X the speed if all you are doing is basic surfing. For example the difference between surfing this site on a 768 kbps DSL connection and a 60 Mbps cable connection( 80X faster ) is negligible. Dial-up gives you 16 GB a month. If Verizon can't even offer that don't tell me it's better.
jupiter837

join:2010-11-26
Golden, MS

Re: What's the point?

Have you guys seen the commercial where the guy is streaming HD video from Netflix? They never once say anything about a cap, or warn the viewer data charges may apply, nothing. They say it's lightning fast. Tell me they don't know the size of a HD movie, then tell me they don't know the size of their own caps. Any way you look at it, that HD netflix movie will cost at least $20 if it's a small 2gb, but most HD movies are much larger. Tell me they don't know that. I have no problem with companies making money, but there is a open and honest way to do it. They can keep this service, and I don't even watch HD movies.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: What's the point?

said by jupiter837:

Have you guys seen the commercial where the guy is streaming HD video from Netflix? They never once say anything about a cap, or warn the viewer data charges may apply, nothing. They say it's lightning fast. Tell me they don't know the size of a HD movie, then tell me they don't know the size of their own caps. Any way you look at it, that HD netflix movie will cost at least $20 if it's a small 2gb, but most HD movies are much larger. Tell me they don't know that.

They can be as large as 3 GB and of course they know that. They want people to sign up then go over to collect overage fees. Then of course you can't cancell service because you signed a 2 year contract. So Verizon still gets it's money.
jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3
said by 88615298:

said by jcremin:

Um, 4g is for smart-phones too.

No shit really. Post where i said it wasn't

How about where you said:

quote:
Which means this is meant for PC use not a smartphone.
Sorry if I misunderstood what you meant. No need to be an asshole about it.

said by 88615298:

Well gosh don't you think people in rural areas would like to watch Netflix, Hulu and Youtube too?

And I want to drive 80 miles per hour down the country backroads, and I deserve a 4 lane highway to do it!

Just because they want to stream video doesn't mean they are entitled to it or that anyone is obliged to provide that to them. Living in a rural area comes with many benefits. Sometimes you need to sacrifice to not live in an overpopulated city full of jerks. I don't have a bus stop within a city block of my house, and that's fine.

Besides, you CAN watch Hulu and Youtube and even Netflix on 5 or 10 gigs, maybe not as much as you want to, but then get a subscription where you mail the DVD's back and forth.

said by 88615298:

you don't need 500X the speed if all you are doing is basic surfing. For example the difference between surfing this site on a 768 kbps DSL connection and a 60 Mbps cable connection( 80X faster ) is negligible. Dial-up gives you 16 GB a month. If Verizon can't even offer that don't tell me it's better.

I said nothing about the difference between 768k DSL and 60 meg cable. I was comparing the speed of the 4g service to dialup. Loading this site on dialup would suck, loading it on even a 512k connection which is about 20 times faster is a HUGE difference, and offers a huge benefit over dial-up. The 4g service is even faster.

Great, so you can download 16 gigs on dialup... That's not a very practical comparison. Most people use the internet for short durations here and there. There are very few that would prefer dialup speeds 24x7 versus a multi-meg connection with a cap for the few times a day they want to check facebook.

If dialup is better for you to slowly pirate movies with bit-torrent, by all means, use it. For the rest of us, the speed is more practical.

battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
Right here...

"You do realize that the only 4G devices available are USB modems for computers"

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: What's the point?

said by battleop:

Right here...

"You do realize that the only 4G devices available are USB modems for computers"

Post a link to the 4G smartphone I can get form Verizon RIGHT NOW.

Racket

@usda.gov
I don't see it that way at all. Verizon is not ready for a huge adoption party on this new network. It is priced accordingly. If no one buys it, they will lower the price to a point where it is adopted and within the ability of the network. As the network grows price will be adjusted up or down based on network needs, number of users, competition ect. Eventually 3G will be phased out and we will be talking about 5G.

Verizon rolls out pretty good networks, but they also charge alot. If they over charge early, then people will complain about high price but a great product, if they roll it out cheap and the network is overloaded people will say its cheap but it sucks. Its alot easier to show a decrease in price to a new customer than an improved network, just look at the years of ATT/Apple.
tdouglas22

join:2001-09-25
Memphis, TN

Re: What's the point?

said by Racket :

I don't see it that way at all. Verizon is not ready for a huge adoption party on this new network. It is priced accordingly. If no one buys it, they will lower the price to a point where it is adopted and within the ability of the network. As the network grows price will be adjusted up or down based on network needs, number of users, competition ect. Eventually 3G will be phased out and we will be talking about 5G.

Verizon rolls out pretty good networks, but they also charge alot. If they over charge early, then people will complain about high price but a great product, if they roll it out cheap and the network is overloaded people will say its cheap but it sucks. Its alot easier to show a decrease in price to a new customer than an improved network, just look at the years of ATT/Apple.

Makes a lot of sense business wise.

battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

Re: What's the point?

"Makes a lot of sense business wise"

Around here most readers call that greed.

They are damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they don't provide a capped service Karl will post that they are being greedy for the caps. If they provide an uncapped service Karl will declare that they are being greedy for not upgrading their networks fast enough because of over subscription.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
said by Racket :

I don't see it that way at all. Verizon is not ready for a huge adoption party on this new network.

Well that's why they are only in a small portion of their service area so that's a lame excuse.

sapo
Cruising Down Memory Lane
Premium
join:2002-09-16
Sacramento, CA
kudos:1
As stated above this is a top shelf service so yeah, if you can't pay, you can't play.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

WTF

The internet is going backwards.
lucky178

join:2000-11-06
Coshocton, OH

I'll wait for a bigger cap or lower price.

I'm on a grandfather Unlimited plan for $60 a month, I travel all over the U.S and have been pretty happy with the coverage.
ShellMMG

join:2009-04-16
Grass Lake, MI
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

Re: I'll wait for a bigger cap or lower price.

Same here, but my tower is at capacity and my d'load speeds stink. REALLY stink. They have since last May, when for some reason I stopped getting 2-2.5Mb down.

$80 for 10G is not worth it when you're dependent on wireless for your ONLY internet access. No DSL here, although Frontier (HAAAAHAHAHA!!!) says they'll be bringing it through "eventually." Yeah, right, not if they go bankrupt first.

If VZW wants to "extend" my 3G contract into LTE when it becomes available in my area, fine. If not, no sale.
lucky178

join:2000-11-06
Coshocton, OH
Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..

Re: I'll wait for a bigger cap or lower price.

I have been all around this country and have never sustain more than 1.5 meg with a peak at 2.5 meg on occassion. on average i see 6-800k. I'm a truck driver and cannot use landlined internet. If they bring the price to $50 with a 30-35 gig cap, i will jump on it

Unother

join:2005-03-23
West Hartford, CT
That's because that dates almost precisely to when VZW debuted the "Droid Incredible".

Even here in SF I noticed a marked decrease in service quality once the Droid revolution started in earnest.

You do notice VZW no longer runs those "better network" commercials...
--
I'm Kreig Zimmerman. Any questions?

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
You'll be waiting for a while. Verizon has been dropping prices cap overages every 2 years this is the first time they have offered more than 5 GB though.

4 years ago 25 cents per MB overage
2 years ago 5 cents per MB overage
Now 1 cents per MB overage( $10 per GB )

So logic says in 2013 expect overages to drop to $2 per GB whihc still sucks. 2015 maybe you get to a more reasonable 50 cents per GB.

As far as the caps themselves. I expect in 2013 to have MAYBE 20 GB cap( joke now even more a joke in 2013 ) I don't expect anything approaching 100 GB until 2020. Only 9 more years YEAH!!!
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Re: I'll wait for a bigger cap or lower price.

said by 88615298:

4 years ago 25 cents per MB overage
2 years ago 5 cents per MB overage
Now 1 cents per MB overage( $10 per GB )

So logic says in 2013 expect overages to drop to $2 per GB whihc still sucks. 2015 maybe you get to a more reasonable 50 cents per GB.

While outrageous for wired internet, most people would probably find $1 per GB overage charges reasonable for mobile internet. $10 per GB overage charges should really be as illegal as Verizon Wireless putting a gun to your head and telling you to hand over your wallet.

SouthLA

@cox.net
Me too. Despite using VZ 8+ hours a day 5 days a week, I have however never come close to 5 gigs, so Unlimited is not that important to me. Suspect I am the typical business user. Would the extra speed help? Not significantly. EVDO works fine for 99% of what I do. But that is not important. I WANT IT, and can pay for it. The nearest market is 100 miles away though.

cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27

Nothing new except the name...

Dialup versus DSL
DSL versus T1
T1 versus T3
...

If you "need" it, you pay for it. They got it, you want it, chaching.
Gami00

join:2010-03-11
Mississauga, ON

double link front page..

we need to go back to the early 2000s when high speed internet started.

where site creators had a text based front page with two links. One for "high speed" users, and one for lower spd modem type users.

in this case it'll be, a "rich" link with all the latest graphics, and adds, and flash. and one "poor" link that's just text based.. no ads, no pictures, nothing. I just want to see the text I came there to see.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

Re: double link front page..

Its called the "mobile" site.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: double link front page..

said by patcat88:

Its called the "mobile" site.

Looks great on a PC with a 22 inch screen.
vag16v

join:2001-07-27
hereandthere

so its not just in Canada

Well, seems its happening in the U.S also and not just Canada.

redxii
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-26
Sherwood, MI

Re: so its not just in Canada

It's wireless, caps & overages is nothing new.

LTE Home

Hopefully once the LTE infrastructure is in place, LTE or 4g for home will be a new revenue stream for the carriers that will have more reasonable caps.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

5-10GB caps disappear quickly at 16 Mbps

In other news...... water makes things wet.
tennisman94

join:2010-02-18
Palm Harbor, FL
kudos:2

Re: 5-10GB caps disappear quickly at 16 Mbps

said by 88615298:

In other news...... water makes things wet.

In related news.....heavy water makes things glow
watice

join:2008-11-01
New York, NY

netbooks

not restricted to usb modem users. they sell netbooks with embedded chipsets as well. last i checked, they had a netbook for $39 (+ $50 or $60/mo service as well)

yeah

@sbcglobal.net

crapy caps

This really is sad when providers do stuff like this!

Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

The fact that Verizon and AT&T and some others

put these caps at such laughable low levels shows what douchebags they are WHEN they lie to us and tell us that the caps are to stop people from "abusing" their networks

I remember when I first heard those statements that the caps would thus be 100gbs or something along those lines....then I get my iPad and am stuck EVERY month with the 2gb cap which goes in days some times

Borderline criminal, imo

thender
Screen tycoon
Premium
join:2009-01-01
Brooklyn, NY
kudos:1

That upload beats what I get with OOL boost.


Geda

@verizon.net

Fast but

Top speed 160...speed limit 50...guaranteed ticket....no thanks.