  TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
 ·CenturyLink
| Sad According to KFI the City sent inspectors to the restaurant when the smell of natural gas was called in but they failed to evacuate the place shortly before the explosion. Not good 
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I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
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 | BobAccount deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey Reviews:
 ·Optimum Online
| Re: Sad quote:
It almost smelled like the radiators were seeping out gas," one witness said. "Strong enough for us to call the landlord to say something was wrong."
Strong enough to call the landlord, but not smart enough to get out, apparently. | |
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| | KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: Sad it is interesting nobody exited. I have always been told if you smell lots of gas to exit the building and call 911 once clear of the structure.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | | BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH | Re: Sad That falls well within common sense! | |
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| | | BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH | And according to the NY Times, they smelled gas ALL DAY and didn't evacuate the building??? WTF? Do these people have no common sense? The first thing you do if you smell gas is GTFO and call the fire department. | |
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| | | I've been arguing for two decades now that gas is too dangerous to deploy anywhere but in industrial areas. I recommend a 1 mile buffer zone between gas-using industrials and residential zones.
Look at what recently happened in Indiana, when that divorced couple blew up their home by disabling a regulator valve and detonating the gas with a timer-equipped microwave oven. Destroyed 81 homes, 31 of them so badly they had to be completely demolished. Gas is just too dangerous. Do you want your neighbors to have bomb factories? Having gas service is potentially the same thing.
Couple years back, a natural gas fired power plant was in the startup phases in Middletown, CT. They had a massive explosion. Fortunately, the plant was isolated from residential areas, but I shudder to think if it had been in a community. Never forget Durham Woods in Edison, NJ. 500 unit apartment complex destroyed in seconds due to 36" gas main failure. | |
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| | | | I witnessed the Durham Woods fire from my mother's womb  | |
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| | | BobAccount deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey Reviews:
·Optimum Online
| Re: Sad Building next to where I used to live had a propane-fueled fire that melted the siding on my building. Ten 100 pound propane tanks exploded.
I think people should have gone to jail for illegally storing propane tanks, but the investigation was handled by the corrupt Nicholas Bissell and whitewashed. | |
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| | Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
1 edit | said by disconnected :I've been arguing for two decades now that gas is too dangerous to deploy anywhere but in industrial areas. I recommend a 1 mile buffer zone between gas-using industrials and residential zones. Are you serious? Hundreds of millions of residential customers use natural gas every single day without issue. Stop spreading FUD. What alternative would you purpose for space heating? Electric and fuel oil are nearly three times as expensive, on a BTU for BTU basis:
1 therm (100,000 btu) of natural gas: $0.80 to $1.20, depending on utility and market prices
29.31 kWh (100,000 btu) of electric: $2.34 (@ $0.08/kWh) to $3.51 (@ $0.12/kWh)
0.72 gallons fuel oil (100,000 btu): $2.88 (at $4/gal) | |
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| | |  DavidNow accepting new patientsPremium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:78 | Re: Sad I wonder how hard it would be to power an entire house on a natural gas generator...
You would think NG cars would take off considering that 1 therm would be cheaper than 1Gal of US fuel. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Sad Wouldn't save you any money, the thermal efficiency of a small generator is not very good. | |
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| | | | | BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH | Re: Sad Exactly. It's for backup use only, and it's pricey to run those things during extended outages, as piston engines are usually 20% efficient at best. | |
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| | | BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH Reviews:
·Comcast
| Yup. It's just a matter of using it safely. More electric would mean more fires from wiring, etc, etc.
Electric is 3x the price of gas, as gas is usually like 85-90% efficient, while electric is 100% efficient at converting electricity that was made around 35% efficiently, often with gas, with 10% losses in the lines. | |
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|  gar187erI do this for a living
join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE
kudos:4 | Re: :( gas lines arent painted orange. they are yellow.
orange is for telecom lines.
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I'm better than you! | |
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| |  ev
@clearwire-wmx.net | Re: :( Yep, misremembered the paint color. My bad!
The machine operator himself definitely wasn't around on day two. Only know that from someone on-site the day after. They explained he was "lucky to be alive..." and whatnot.
Maybe the dig supervisor assumed the lines had been marked ahead of time (IOW, no paint/flags, no gas lines). Maybe dispatch told them, "yep, marks are complete, go ahead and dig" when it hadn't even happened yet. Or they maybe they failed to check altogether. I'll never know.
Judging from the hush-hush way one TWC rep handled it, blame could be assigned to just one dude, or possibly a dozen. | |
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| |  GuspazGuspazPremium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:20 | No, it's not. I've seen fiber optic cable being buried that was yellow, and I've seen pictures of black cable in use too. There doesn't appear to be any colour standard that is actually followed, or if there is, the colour standard varies from place to place.
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Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org | |
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| | |  Killa200Premium
join:2005-12-02
Southeast TN | Re: :( We are talking the color of the call to dig markers, not the cable itself. | |
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| | OMG "We should not be upgrading to fiber it kills people. Think of the children."
Next step in Incumbents plans to not do upgrades. | |
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| | | Re: OMG No doubt the astroturf lot will emerge with something like "too much fibre causes deadly gas".
The contractor may be negligent, the gas line may not have been installed originally years ago in the correct position, the marking company might have made an error in marking the position of the pipe, the odour of gas was detected at the bar before the evacuation and explosion. So many possibilities, but the certainty is that this will become yet another lawsuit. | |
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 LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 |  Plenty of blame to go around
The gas comany for taking so long to notify others of leak.
The police for not enforcing everyone leave the restaurant when gas detected.
And of course, restaurant mgt for allowing employees to remain in restaurant.
The law suit by the dead victims family and the other injured will have plenty of people to sue.
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I will be perfectly happy if the budget cuts specified in the Budget Control Act go into effect. 3 cheers for the sequester. Take the money from the drunken federal spenders. | |
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gar187erI do this for a living
join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE
kudos:4 | depth I would like to know how shallow that gas line was.
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I'm better than you! | |
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| | | Re: depth Also how deep they were trying to put the conduit in for the fiber. I don't know if they were trying to bore under the street or what. | |
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| | Reviews:
·Charter
| Re: depth if its like typical places that get cold and snow, it has to be below the frost line(all utils and pipes do), which is usually 6-8 feet down, but the broadband lines can usually get away with 3-4 feet down, so what were they doing digging that deep? I am betting that an investigation will reveal all sorts of negligent parties for not following the correct procedure. The should have been no where near those gas lines in the first place, and when they found them, they should have shut down everything, called in a line marker, and investigated for leaks in the area immediately. There were lots of things that should have been done that were simply not done. The subcontracter will be liable for all damages tho, because they are the originators of the entire issue. The city could be included, and maybe the restaurant that did not evacuate staff and customers(at least for their injuries only, no more pain and suffering bullshit). I hope that the process for the victims is made easy, and they choose not to go class action. class action lawsuits have lost their purpose. Bury the subcontractor in small to large claims. | |
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| | | | | Re: depth I agree, even if they were boring they would be able to control their depth on the paddle head, so if they were that deep then who knows why. I would think that they would have hit it as the gas line was coming up to provide service, but then in that area you should definitely not be using non-hand equipment. | |
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| | Should of known :( Smell gas get the heck outta there!!!!!!!! | |
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| | This happened quite a bit in Overland Park Area When the contractors ran the lines for Everest/SureWest they were hitting gas lines a lot. Quite frequently you would be driving down College Blvd outside of a few large Corporate Campuses and see them on the side of the road and with the windows rolled up you could smell the gas.
A lot of times when the locators come out and they mark where everything is you then realize what little space you have to work with. Especially since depending on some locates it could vary 3-6 inches left to right on the type of utility and how dry the ground is, the drier the ground the more the signal seeps.
This does not alleviate the accident or the responsibility, but if the plans aren't right (as in the case in Overland Park which had mis-marked their gas lines on their own maps) or the area is so congested the contractors can have a pain in the ass trying to do what they were told to do. Unfortunately not everyone would turn to the people that are hiring them and say that they are not comfortable with the way the layout is and they should think of moving the line at a more expensive cost.
And I would definitely agree...smell gas, get the heck out of dodge. | |
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| | | Re: This happened quite a bit in Overland Park Area Just checked their website, it has been taken offline as well. Or it is getting hit so hard it just isn't coming up. | |
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| | | My understanding is that if you are digging within the region of a gas line, you have to dig by hand. This is obvious for residential, not sure how it works in a concrete/road/paved area where you do not have a choice but to use heavy equipment (I consider a jack hammer heavy equipment). | |
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| | | | Re: This happened quite a bit in Overland Park Area Not to my knowledge, we used a vibrating plow, but normally the gas line is a heck of a lot deeper then the 8-12 inches that we would put the conduit in for residential locations. But then again we didn't do that around where the gas line came up on the house. But if we were crossing ANY utilities we always hand dug (pot holed) the conduit in at that point. | |
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| | | | | Re: This happened quite a bit in Overland Park Area said by mrjoshuaw:Not to my knowledge, we used a vibrating plow, but normally the gas line is a heck of a lot deeper then the 8-12 inches that we would put the conduit in for residential locations. But then again we didn't do that around where the gas line came up on the house. But if we were crossing ANY utilities we always hand dug (pot holed) the conduit in at that point.
Around here with Ameren if you are even working near a high pressure gas line, you have to call them ahead of time so they can have a response crew on standby. | |
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| | | That just means they hit the lines because they were rushing.
They should have carefully dug by hand if they were that close to a gas line. But that of course would have cost more money. | |
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| | blazing fast most major metro areas have clear maps in town halls where gas lines are laid, and the contractors who didn't do the due dilligance should be fined. if the maps were not clearly marked, this is a chance to get updated... so fiber can move forward. | |
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| | This could be any utility line This could happen with any sort of utility. Coaxial cable, twisted pair copper, heck even additional GAS LINES could cause an explosion if the company doing the digging doesn't get a proper mark out done before digging. This could also easily apply to people planting new trees or bushed, towns installing new curbs or sidewalks, even pothole repair. | |
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| Reviews:
 ·ooma
·Optimum Online
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Re: This could be any utility line said by Ohstop :This could happen with any sort of utility. Coaxial cable, twisted pair copper, heck even additional GAS LINES could cause an explosion if the company doing the digging doesn't get a proper mark out done before digging. This could also easily apply to people planting new trees or bushed, towns installing new curbs or sidewalks, even pothole repair.
This is a problem waiting for a techology solution... anything from microchips to radioactivty markers/tracers to create a process of detection and mapping for gas lines. Over 40 years of laying gas lines and nobody's figured it out yet.. | |
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| | Time Warner Cable causes massive gas explosion. FTFY. Heartland Midwest has been their contractor for over 8 years. Mentioning their name is meaningless, they were working for time warner cable. Time warner cable was putting in the fiber line and they fucked up. | |
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| | | Re: Time Warner Cable causes massive gas explosion. FTFY. Mentioning their name is not meaningless, they don't just work for Time Warner, they have worked for many other businesses in the KC area. TWC contracted them to put the conduit in place. So if I hired a contractor to put something in place, and they mess it up that means I shouldn't blame them?
Or are you saying it wasn't Heartland Midwest doing the work? The reports around here are that they were the ones onsite, that they were the ones that popped the gas line. | |
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| | | | Re: Time Warner Cable causes massive gas explosion. FTFY. I am saying is you can't just absolve time warner. Time warner has the ultimate responsibility here. Do not use heartland as a scapegoat.
The workers were working for time warner at the time and taking direction from time warner. | |
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| | | | | Re: Time Warner Cable causes massive gas explosion. FTFY. They are now saying that Heartland Midwest said that they were going to be working on the 22nd of February. And that they had requested a remarking on the day that they went ahead and started the work. And that they did not have a permit to work in that area on that date, and that they even tried to submit the permit the day after the explosion. Here is the link:
»www.kshb.com/dpp/news/local_news···ity-says
And I believe that you can absolve Time Warner to some degree. I am not a Time Warner fan but they were not the ones doing the work. The contractor (Heartland) is the ones responsible for everything that happens on that site while they are trenching adn or boring.
The Contractor were told we need a line from point A to point B, the Contractor then does a site survey and goes, yes we can do that. Time Warner goes GREAT, then you get the contract or work. At that point it is the responsibility of the Contractor to get the job done OR bring up any concerns while the work is being completed. | |
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| | Have you noticed? Have you noticed how much more often we are hearing of this kind of "accident" ?
The pipes and lines and everything else that are all buried are getting so old, it's a time bomb just laying there.
No such thing as preventive maintenance on this stuff, or what? Yeah, I know they have monitoring systems etc., but still, how often has that been ineffective already? I can think of 2 times fairly local to me on the Kalamazoo River.
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The Firefox alternative.
»www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/ | |
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