Levin: Your Broadband Comments Weren't Helpful Broadband plan leader complains of sloppy, vague suggestions... Blair Levin, the man in charge of the FCC's national broadband plan, wasn't impressed with the first round of requested comments on how best to achieve our national broadband goals. According to Levin, "sloppiness" and the "lack of seriousness and purpose" in most comments weren't useful to the agency in formulating a plan. "There's actually very little in the 8,500-something pages that moves the ball forward," Levin said. Consumer group Free Press quickly piled on, complaining that the dull and useless comments were mostly the work of incumbent carriers who like things the way they are. While carriers certainly want taxpayer money, notes the group, they don't want regulation -- and aren't particularly eager to admit broadband competitive and deployment shortcomings. "Incumbents have the largest pool of resources and broadband data at their fingertips, but their comments offer nothing more than the same old tired pro-deregulation arguments," says Derek Turner at Free Press. "It is clear from their recommendations that the phone and cable companies want the national broadband plan to simply be a do-nothing plan -- a strategy that has already proven to be an epic failure for consumers. It's interesting to see Levin complain about broadband comments that contain vague consensus but offer no specific detail, since as we noted yesterday, that can also be said of recent media interviews by new FCC boss Julius Genachowski. Levin has until February to craft a plan, and not too surprisingly, he's finding that empty rhetoric about the miracles of innovation aren't helpful.
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 | | Good I'm glad that he wants specifics. He won't be satisfied with the vague, inconsequential "plans" lawyers of big business are so fond of espousing. | |
|  |  | | Re: Good he may want specifics, but he certainly doesn't articulate any. There an a number of ways to look at providers shortcomings. All he has to do is browse this thing called the Internet to look for a few ideas. [/sigh] -- BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils! | |
|  |  1 edit | Heres a plan for him (very specific too) run 1,000 10G fiber ethernet cables to every town (setup into a nationwide mesh topology with regional transit sites
setup a CRS-1 in each town to make use of the 10TB/sec of data
run 1G fiber to every home
then offer 100/100 internet service with local-to-local of 1G
then I think your'd have a good start
next make the locations of the CRS-1's into IXP's and split the 1,000 fibers between multiple CRS-1's
setup Peering agreements with ISP's that have a local presence
now you have super amazing fast internet service that everyone (except the incumbents) will be happy about
next add internet needed services ie a cluster of DNS servers (start with one per region then expand)
next provide a set of standards for QOS (based on DSCP) in such a way that it would only help and that taking advantage of it would be pointless | |
|  |  |  | | Re: Good These are actually good suggestions. However, it would leave nothing for any ISP to complain about for a great number of years, that's why this would never be accepted.
We all fail to realize that providing a good service is not what these companies are in business to do. What they ARE unfortunately in business to do is provide the highest return on company stock prices to the investors by using the cheapest means and the lowest upkeep. | |
|  |  |  iansltx join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO kudos:2 | But that'd be expensive. Like, almost 10% of what they spent bailing out the banks!!!1! | |
|  |  |  |  lesopp join:2001-06-27 Land O Lakes, FL | Re: Good Do you really think the cost of anything will deter this administration from giving more money for political payback, claiming it will prevent the country from going bankrupt.  | |
|  |  |  |  |  NOCManMacChatterPremium join:2004-09-30 Colorado Springs, CO | Re: Good So you would of let Chrysler and GM go bankrupt?
If that happened you'd bee looking at 20-30% unemployment across the board, no to mention if our dollar tanks and the oil countries decide to use the Euro as the new standard, we would be doubly screwed.
Last I checked my 401k is actually back into the black, no thanks to Bush or any other RepubliCONS.
Just love to see the other side complain on how he's having to clean up their mess. It's like a kid who spilled the milk telling his mother how to mop. -- Play a Death Knight? www.theebonhold.com | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Good ...GM did go bankrupt, and they're already back in business. | |
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 |  |  espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM join:2001-04-21 Minneapolis, MN kudos:2 Reviews:
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| said by DarkLogix:run 1,000 10G fiber ethernet cables to every town (setup into a nationwide mesh topology with regional transit sites This already exists -- they're called backbone carriers. Only it's not 10G, it's multiple of 40G/100G.
said by DarkLogix:setup a CRS-1 in each town to make use of the 10TB/sec of data • The CRS is a platform designed for aggregation of high capacity / channelized circuits. The queuing structure on the platform is designed for carrier MPLS services and core routing functionality. It doesn't have the port capacity even in a separated multi-chassis configuration with the intermediate S2 stage fiber shelf to tackle even 1% of the edge attachment you describe. • The CRS is a power hungry platform that generates insane amounts of heat. If we didn't have an energy crisis before, deploying an army of these will help us down that path as we struggle to find ways to both power and cool the infrastructure. • Each CRS shelf rolls in at low 7 figures when fully configured.
It's not even close to being the right hardware for the job. It would be like assembling a football team of only quaterbacks, or fighting a war with no army, no navy, and no air force except an entire fleet of B2 bombers.
On the plus side, this has all the things we love about government programs: it would be ridiculously expensive, would fail to meet its overall objectives by being the wrong solution to the problem, and would create a long-term burden for maintaining the infrastructure once you've locked yourself into this design. | |
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4 edits | So far the FCC has spent almost 10 years TRASHING broadband! Under the Bush/Powell/Martin FCC, broadband was trashed in this country! First they gutted the 1996 Communcations Act, then they 'de regulated' DSL-elminating ALL the required 'last mile' wholesale line sharing in the 1996 act. They they declared cable Internet an 'Information service'-virtually ELIMINATING competition over cable lines. Yet, DSL, wireless, dial up, etc. remains a 'communications service'!
INTERNET IS INTERNET-how can how it arrives to the home make it two completely different services?
Right now, in Hollywood, CA-one of the most populated cities in the USA, there are basically TWO ways to get Internet-the cable company or the phone company. Neither offers reasonably priced static IP service. TW uses Sandvine to throttle torrents-and Speedboost to make you THINK you're getting decent speeds when you're not. My friend just called-he told me that he was downloading a 2 gb torrent (a legit radio show) and he watched the speed of the torrent abruptly drop from 700 kbps to 14 kpbs on his TW connection (so don't tell me you aren't throttling, TW!). It's still slow an hour later...
With DSL you have a couple of independent choices-but who determines the speeds they can sell you? The telephone company! They control the provisioning.
So, FCC, if you want to help us, then you have to get us to TRUST YOU! So far I haven't seen you lift a finger to make anything better (not even a token amount)-and we're NOT going to take you on faith. Indeed, If I had my way, I'd disband you and start over with an organization run by engineers, not lawyers! | |
|  |  iansltx join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO kudos:2 Reviews:
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| Re: So far the FCC has spent almost 10 years TRASHING broadband! On te DSL side, you can theoretically colocate your own equipment etc. and push our your own CLEC DSL service. It's just rather expensive.
Case in point: Sonic.net offers up to 18 Mbps down, 1 Mbps up DSL on their home turf.
However you're right; a DSL ISP can pick from a predetermined mix of speed tiers to sell to their customers if their equipment isn't n the CO. Which, for most providers (DSLExtreme, name-your-DSL-ISP-here, anyone running on Qwest's DSL ISP program), is the case. | |
|  |  |  mrkevinKnowledge comes, but wisdom lingers.Premium join:2007-08-07 Aurora, ME | Re: So far the FCC has spent almost 10 years TRASHING broadband! you can theoretically colocate your own equipment etc. and push our your own CLEC DSL service. It's just rather expensive. Yup, that's true. So anyone out there who is unhappy with their service can start their own. You could run your own FTTH network right out of your basement. It doesn't take up much room, and start selling it to your neighbors and branch out from there. -- An army of sheep led by a lion, will always defeat an army of lions led by a sheep. | |
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1 edit | Re: So far the FCC has spent almost 10 years TRASHING broadband! What many of you don't realize is that the telcos readily agreed to allow wholesale rental of the last mile of their circuits to competitors. The reason was because in return they got to enter the long distance business.
AT&T and Verizon would not exist otherwise!!
Do I have to repeat what I just stated?
BUT when it came time for the telcos to keep THEIR part of the bargain, instead they lobbied (read: BRIBED) the (then Republican controlled ) FCC to 'de regulate' DSL-and in the process wipe this half of the agreement off the face of the earth!
In simpler terms, the telcos DEALT IN BAD FAITH and got away with it!
Perhaps its time for the FCC to undo this travesty and then watch DSL prices drop and speeds increase as a result!
Or maybe they should again disallow them from the LD business-so AT&T and Verizon can go back to the way they were... | |
|  |  |  |  |  mrkevinKnowledge comes, but wisdom lingers.Premium join:2007-08-07 Aurora, ME | Re: So far the FCC has spent almost 10 years TRASHING broadband! Perhaps its time for the FCC to undo this travesty and then watch DSL prices drop and speeds increase as a result! It always works when government gets involved... Prices would most undoubtedly increase as the Fed saw another opportunity to separate you from your $$$ -- An army of sheep led by a lion, will always defeat an army of lions led by a sheep. | |
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 |  |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Reviews:
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| said by iansltx:On te DSL side, you can theoretically colocate your own equipment etc. and push our your own CLEC DSL service. It's just rather expensive. And just how many people are in range of the copper coming out of the CO? All those people behind fiber RT's are off limits.
This access has become a joke. -- "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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|  |  |  |  iansltx join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO kudos:2 | Re: So far the FCC has spent almost 10 years TRASHING broadband! True dat. | |
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 major marcoRes Firma Mitescere NescitPremium join:2003-02-13 Stepford, CA | Meet the new boss, Same as the old one but dumber Considering Genchowski's hot air and now Levin's comments, it's nothing but a veritable reach around between these two clowns. The former appointees were sock puppets who echoed the will of their corporate cable/telco masters, and, these two chuckleheads are in the same league as heckuva job, Brownie. | |
|  HarddriveProud American and Infidel since 1968.Premium join:2000-09-20 Phone Room kudos:2 Reviews:
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| what does he think would get posted? he said "sloppiness" and the "lack of seriousness and purpose" in most comments weren't useful to the agency in formulating a plan.
well its hard to post serious and purposeful comments to the FCC that has been the laughing stock of all the Government Agencies for their lack of insight and willingness to listen to the people and not the telco corporations. the FCC is a joke and should be dissolved. create a new agency with new people that don't have the cable companies/telcos on the speed dial list of their phones. -- I've come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass and i'm all outta bubblegum. | |
|  |  mrkevinKnowledge comes, but wisdom lingers.Premium join:2007-08-07 Aurora, ME | Re: what does he think would get posted? Like they didn't open themselves up for this one. What did they expect?
Well the FCC won't let me be me, they tried to shut me down on MTV {Emiem} -- An army of sheep led by a lion, will always defeat an army of lions led by a sheep. | |
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 1 edit | Dear Mr Levin... Why did you dismiss the suggestions from google, both as a corp. and through the moderator site. The rants are to be expected after a dismal oversight failure in recent years. There are, however, some very good basic ideas. This is something thats also been lacking in recent years. The fundamental protection for the consumer coinciding with the incentives for the advancement of technologies. These are not luxeries, these are basic ideas that should be in the mission statement of the FCC. -- BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils! | |
|  GlobalMindDomino Dude, POWER Systems GuyPremium join:2001-10-29 Hollywood, FL | Carriers don't want regulation? Sure they do....when it's beneficial to them, maintains their power, kills muni broadband etc. ; ) | |
|  1 edit | Well.... Lack of seriousness?
I was wholly serious when I wrote that litany of a list of tenants back on the google moderator page.
By the way, I did actually SUBMIT that list. | |
|  | | Where do we post comments? I don't see anywhere in the ECFS. What's the docket number? | |
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 SLDPremium join:2002-04-17 San Francisco, CA | Do my job for me! Why should I have the knowledge and competence to handle this? Send me ideas on how to do my job - but make them useful. | |
|  ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium join:2002-03-03 Mullica Hill, NJ kudos:4 1 edit | Levin criticizing non-profits & gov't too; not just industry
From the story it appears that Levin was just criticizing telcos and cable for unhelpful ideas. And that isn't the case. He was criticizing all the comments across the board:
»online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-200···462.html
Federal Communications Commission on Monday warned businesses and communities weighing in on the agency's national high-speed Internet plan to avoid "intellectual sloppiness" and "get-mine-first" statements in their proposals.
Proposals offered by telecom companies and nonprofit organizations aren't "analyzing what the trade-offs are" to various ideas for encouraging more Internet buildout or boosting subscribership. So the Free Press group shouldn't be so smug. They are as unhelpful as everyone else. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
|  |  | | Re: Levin criticizing non-profits & gov't too; not just industry So it looks like we've got a golden opportunity here to get some more ideas into the hat. The fact that he's willing to listen and actually took the time to READ what was submitted to him is a plus in my book. | |
|  |  |  | | Re: Levin criticizing non-profits & gov't too; not just industry We should put together a plan her at BBR and submit it to the FCC. We got lots of resources available if we all pool our talents. We got lots of broadband enthusiasts, network engineers, and even LiamJunket.
We're always complaining about the terrible state of broadband in the country. Let's do something to fix it! | |
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 |  | | Uh, you know there were more than just one non-profit who filed in this proceeding. Levin's critique likely was aimed at some of the more lazy ones. But of all of them, the critique certainly cannot apply to Free Press' filing, which was much more comprehensive than anything else anyone filed. I don't agree with some of their conclusions, but it was a very informative read.
»gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retr···20219926 | |
|  |  | | Free Press's filing was amazing.
I don't doubt the incumbents tried to muddy the waters with their own submissions. | |
|  |  |  | | Re: Levin criticizing non-profits & gov't too; not just industry Only in one respect: that Free Press thought that their half baked, recycled, falsehood-laden, and plainly Google-funded lobbying agenda was credible in any respect. Such gall and hubris are, indeed, amazing. | |
|  |  |  |  See 10 replies to this post |
 | | Fantastic comments Once again, I am really impressed with the quality of the comments here on BBR. Keep up the good work. | |
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4 edits | An open letter to Blair Levin Dear Mr. Levin:
Attached is a five dollar bill, which I have included so you can go out and buy a clue-as you clearly have none.
You say you want to 'fix' the Internet. Ironic, as many to most of the problems the USA Internet has were actively caused by the FCC. See, whan the FCC gutted the 1996 Communications Act, they effectively killed ALL Internet competition, which insured the monopolistic stagnation we have today.
The biggest thing that the FCC could to is allow for competition among Internet Service providers. See, competition makes for more choices, both lowering prices and improving service.
This might well be impossible in the case of cable TV, as the FCC got SCOTUS to go along with them in the BrandX case. It IS possible in the case of DSL simply by telling the ILECS that the time has come for them to begin abiding by the agreement to which THEY signed allowing for wholesale leasing of their last mile circuits.
Another thing the FCC can do is make sure they they don't 'bend over' to the NAB and broadcasters where white space spectrum sharing is concerned. This space can be used well by wireless ISPs for medium (1-10 mile) paths.
There also needs to be a decently sized swath of UHF spectrum where ISPs can employ reasonably priced equipment to operate wireless broadband networks that actually can offer decent speeds to customers. This should be freely open to all, as opposed to being auctioned off to the richest, largest companies. They have enough spectrum, don't you think? This wireless option would also work to allow broadband to be extended to rural areas. The FCC should also work to pre-empt state and local laws with regards to reasonable height transmission towers and receive antennas & dishes for customers. Only by doing everything above can wireless broadband ever hope to live up to what it is capable of.
I'm not going into any great technical detail here-instead I'm painting a big picture that is small enough in size that you can read it over your Caesar salad lunch. You should leave the technical details to your FCC engineers. By the way, you do realize that the FCC has less then HALF the engineers that it needs to run effectively, don't you? Fire half the lawyers and bureaucrats there and replace them with engineers! After all, it's SCIENCE you are regulating, not art or intellectual property.
Seriously though, the trouble with Internet in the USA is that the FCC has stifled competition. They have given it over to the 'big boys' who have responded by throttling speeds and metering bandwidth, rather then installing newer, faster, better networks. Kind of sounds like the telephone companies pre divestiture doesn't it? Or am I the only one that remembers mechanical phone exchanges, expensive long distance rates, dial telephones rented from the phone company and paying extra for 'touch tone' service?
I hope (yet remain skeptical) that you, the Obama Administration and Congress are serious about making things better Internet wise in this country. The fact that the United States (INVENTOR of the Internet) is barely in the top 20 speed and deployment wise is truly pathetic.
Regards,
Dana Puopolo | |
|  |  | | time ot do a national turn it off month whats that amount to if we had 50% of north america say screw you im not paying for a month.
TRUST me it would work. | |
|  |  tshirtPremium,MVM join:2004-07-11 Snohomish, WA kudos:3 Reviews:
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| Re: time ot do a national turn it off month said by chronoss2009:whats that amount to if we had 50% of north america say screw you im not paying for a month. TRUST me it would work. To stop paying for a month is meaningless, UNLESS you are willing to stop USING for a month........ or longer, if need be. If you want to STRIKE, be serious about it, any UNION member can tell you the trade offs and costs, of people working together to gain leverage over those that INVEST in your connection.
I think Levin's comments are accurate, so polarized is the debate, the no one has offered a balanced/realistic plan, each has offered/suggested/DEMANDED that some other party pay the cost/carry the burden. "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" isn't going to result in a longterm, sustainable, national network, nor will "let's wait and see"........somewhere in between is profit for the investor, competant, reliable "universal"** coverage and fast roll out.
** method, available speed, date of availablity and cost per speed may vary due to local conditions. | |
|  |  |  | | Re: time ot do a national turn it off month your only taking one aspect of the broad debate. The debate also needs to take consumer protection into account, as well as address the carriers implementation of caps as a source of revenue (because it sure doesn't relieve congestion). This debate also need to encompass how carriers should be incrementally raising speeds to at least try to keep up with Korea. This debate should also address just how long copper will be milked. IMO, the debate should also include regulating broadband as a utility. This could curb the wide range of a pricing system that we see between carriers. Why should somebody with TW on Docsis 1 at a 3mbps download speed pay the same as someone on Comcast with a 16mbps dl speed using docsis3. And the federal standard for broadband being under 1 mbps in this day and age...are you kidding me? These are just some ideas that he could address having the consumer/taxpayer in mind. These should be basic goals, and you probably won't find any consumers that would object to these goals being achieved. -- BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils! | |
|  |  |  |  tshirtPremium,MVM join:2004-07-11 Snohomish, WA kudos:3 Reviews:
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| Re: time ot do a national turn it off month Not at all. I'm saying, seeing it ONLY as a consumer issue, or ONLY as a business/investor issue is the problem. Somewhere there is a middle ground, reasonable return to the investor, reasonable service to MOST locations, reasonable regulation, and reasonable/zero taxpayer cost. i.e. taxes/fees must balance taxpayer INVESTMENT, should capital be require to jump start the process. "Universal" access would likely be a separate fee, but might be limited access. speed of rollout (why taxpayer investment MIGHT be needed) would be a critical point/metric (metric's really measure what HAS happened, which is why I would suggest REIMBURSEMENT for goals met, rather than, payments in advance (be VERY effective, get a big bonus,... be effective get a bonus,...do little get nothing AND pay penalties (if you bid and fail to provide) | |
|  |  |  |  |  | | Re: time ot do a national turn it off month In your original post you said no one has offered a reasonable plan. I'm suggesting that the many of the thoughts and ideas that were submitted to him were simple solutions that could be implemented at no cost to the tax payer putting us on firm foundation that we could THEN stack a broadband plan on. These suggestions should not be dismissed because they cost the taxpayer nothing. -- BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils! | |
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 | | Another idea Break the telcos and the cable companies into 2 parts- 1 the cable plant, and 2 the services division.
One fundamental problem now is that companies that have the desire to provide innovative services don't have access to the cable plant. If you go to »fiberinternetcenter.com/ you can see that these guys dig up the ground and put the fiber in. there prices aren't cheap, but then they don't have the help that subsidized services provide like the phone company does. If your neighborhood ISP could get access, he could make things happen. Hurricane Electric offers 100 megabit Internet access available for about $800 a month in Fremont- BOTH WAYS. If fiber was available to your neighborhood, then this could apply to you. Think about it for a minute, if you took 2 blocks, say 20 houses and split that up, that would be $40 a month. The problem is getting it to and from the neighborhood.
John | |
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