  Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
kudos:2
1 edit | How long will this last? "Apple has claimed that downloading applications not approved by their application store is illegal"
"In an April security bulletin, Apple said “Unauthorized modification of iPhone OS has been a major source of instability, disruption of services, and other issues.”"
Just like how Apple claimed the iPhone 4 antenna issue was software, does being successful require them to lie all the time?
Do you think Apple can keep this up long term? | |
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| |  funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | Re: How long will this last? Apple didn't invent this market, Palm and Microsoft were there much earlier and these platforms were either as restrictive or less restrictive. So I don't think Apple has anything to worry about from Android. And, I think there's a big enough market for Android to join into the fun, having nothing to worry about from Apple.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Cape Cod, MA -- KE1MO
Tweet! Tweet! -- »twitter.com/funchords | |
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| | |  CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | Re: How long will this last? said by funchords:Apple didn't invent this market, Palm and Microsoft were there much earlier and these platforms were either as restrictive or less restrictive. So I don't think Apple has anything to worry about from Android. And, I think there's a big enough market for Android to join into the fun, having nothing to worry about from Apple. I think Apple has plenty to worry about with Android. | |
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| | | |  en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: How long will this last? Android's openness is as good for it as Apple's lack of openness.
Android positives:
- Multiple hardware vendors (different performance/RAM/CPU, etc)
- Multiple software vendors (outside of OS)
- High customization
- Lower cost
- Almost any software can be created/added
Android negatives:
- Multiple hardware/form factors = every device may function differently (touch screen vs. touch + keyboard, different CPUs, differernt screens)
- Multiple software vendors = different UI's, giving different experience
- buggy apps can cause issues ?
Apple positives:
- Single form factor - OS + Apps look/feel the same on all devices
- Single UI that is relatively clean/simple
- hardware + OS + software designed to work together
- Consistent user experience (device/OS/UI/app)
- OS works
Apple negatives:
- Apple holds all the keys to device optimization/apps/uses
- UI that hasn't changed in a few years
- Applications being barred (flash) due to competitive nature or other given 'reasons' (Skype, Google apps, etc) | |
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| | | | | dynodbPremium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN | Re: How long will this last? said by en102:Android negatives: - Multiple hardware/form factors = every device may function differently (touch screen vs. touch + keyboard, different CPUs, differernt screens) Having more device choices is a positive, not a negative. | |
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| | | | | | en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: How long will this last? In general... it can be.
Apple has to make a 'relatively' polished product, as they put all of their eggs in one basket.
Other device makers can (will) make a ton of devices, some that may be discontinued in a very short time (Nexxus). In general, this is true of all technology driven items.
I think of Apple iPhone as a 'Toyota Camry' - clean/simple, and will last for quite some time. Standard parts across all lines (simple maintanence)
HTC/Motorola/Samsung devices can (will) vary from the low end to high end. Since everything is somewhat unique, and changes often, you will have something that is current... but it will be outdated and forgotten in a short period.
Every device will have a unique look / feel and function - cases/car chargers/headsets will vary. You may not be able to find 'parts' after a few months (eg. HTC Tilt - USB headset (ugh) / Samsung ZX-20 - I had to order car charger - charger was specific to Samsung ZX models only (ZX-10/ZX-20), even though it was the same physically as previous, the pinouts were different.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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| | | | | | | | | Re: How long will this last? said by en102:In general... it can be. Apple has to make a 'relatively' polished product, as they put all of their eggs in one basket. Other device makers can (will) make a ton of devices, some that may be discontinued in a very short time (Nexxus). In general, this is true of all technology driven items. I think of Apple iPhone as a 'Toyota Camry' - clean/simple, and will last for quite some time. Standard parts across all lines (simple maintanence) HTC/Motorola/Samsung devices can (will) vary from the low end to high end. Since everything is somewhat unique, and changes often, you will have something that is current... but it will be outdated and forgotten in a short period. Every device will have a unique look / feel and function - cases/car chargers/headsets will vary. You may not be able to find 'parts' after a few months (eg. HTC Tilt - USB headset (ugh) / Samsung ZX-20 - I had to order car charger - charger was specific to Samsung ZX models only (ZX-10/ZX-20), even though it was the same physically as previous, the pinouts were different. I don't think you understand that in 2 years the iPhone ecosystem will be completely dwarfed by Android. This is analogous to Henry Ford's refusal to make cars in a color other than black, until GM started to outsell them. | |
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| | | | | | | | en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: How long will this last? Very true. I don't think that Apple's single model 'T' can last forever as a single form factor/model series.
In general, this is more of a GM selling multiple models, while Ford sold a single model.
Choice is good... as long as it isn't just 'throwing parts together' to make a new model. GM did a lot of that as well (GM gas to diesel conversion, GM Cadillac Cimarron, GM V8-6-4 ... the list goes on). A few 'models' of competitors that did well and had a simple / decent design were: VW Beetle, Toyota Camry. Corporations like HTC are similar to GM in that aspect, where they manufacture a lot of generic parts, and can effectively add new 'skins' and radios at will to make a new device with little effort. Apple, on the other hand, has focused its effort on the polished product, for good or bad. It probably will be dwarfed with Android devices in the not too distant future, just as it did with the PC market, for the same reason (locked devices, only HW manufacturer). I can only hope that the other devices (HTC/Motorola/Samsung/LG) can at least standardize on some features of their Android phones (charger, headset/mic, UI), and bring the HW quality up.
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| | | | MargolisPremium
join:2003-11-24
Saint Louis, MO | said by Cheese: I think Apple has plenty to worry about with Android. apple has nothing to worry about. They are apple. there are always going to be the apple fans that will still buy their products regardless of anything else. | |
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| |  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | I am no fan of Apple. But the chance of Apple "not lasting much longer" is slim to none. In the long run(10 yrs from now), if Apple continues playing hardball, they MAY become a bystander in smartphones and mobile devices.
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Are you happy with your rep in Washington, DC? | |
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| | |  FBGuyyippee ki yayPremium
join:2005-03-19 | Re: How long will this last? 10 years? really? you know what happens in 10 years? no, me neither. | |
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| | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
1 edit | Re: How long will this last? People have been calling the death of apple for years.. people said that Vonage was on it's death bed.. people said AOL would cease to exist...
None of that's happened. It just goes to show you how much people believe they're right while making their predictions based on their own personal bias and emotions.
Many people say that the apple eco system is a HORRIBLE design structure since it's not open.. and how apple people force their views on others.. well? maybe and apparently there is a market for people that DON'T want an 'open system' and like their stuff simple and to work the way the maker claims... People like the open architecture (ms) and it works for them (even while many cry foul of MS/windows regularly as well) and many of those people aren't jumping ship to apple - even if apple opened their eco system, many people still wouldn't jump ship. I just don't see why people care.. if someone has something that works for them.. they use and leave other's alone.
This kind of personal opinion and bias is often placed in one's predictions they make about a company surviving or failing.. what this really does show and prove is that this method fails them 100% of the time.
Apple has obviously and clearly been a company that has worked for many many years and it's not going away anytime soon. | |
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1 edit | Re: How long will this last? Post lag again. I thinks chrome is acting up. | |
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1 edit | Really Ive been following this stuff for years and I dont think Ive ever seen anyone call for the death of Apple. Ive heard complaints but thats about it.
Aol used to be the King of the internet. Everywhere you looked there was AOL. Now they are a shell of their former selves barely hanging on. Vonage once held great promise but the consumer has found other and better options. Its amazing they are even still around but its clear their days are numbered as well.
Allow me to put the rest in perspective for you as well. There is a market for electronics that "Just Work" but even Apple cant deliver that. Have you been paying attention lately? Security and making sure your products work the way they are intended is no excuse for a closed network. The closed network strategy Apple has is built out of greed and lazyness. You comparison to Microsoft may work when talking about Smartphones but not in the computer business. I dont have nearly the restrictions with my Windows PC that my friends does with his Mac. Mainly due to the market share but even still. What I can do with a $400 laptop compared to his $1200 mac makes him sick. And it should.
Everything is biased. Its the way of life and you need to get used to it. Its like when people say its business its not personal. Well news flash!!! Business is personal!!! Its always personal to someone. Its was many peoples personal and biased opinion that years ago when Circuit City began cutting knowledgeable workers for lesser payed and less knowledgeable workers it could and most likely would bring an end to a once national and strong chain. Guess what it did. 100% really? It was also the same when we all seen Sears and Roebuck make similar cuts and where are they? No where near where they used to be. Sears once owned 90% of the Automobile battery market.
People care because these devices have become a way of life. They have transformed our lives in ways many who frequent this site cant imagine. Im not ancient but I remember when all phones were attatched the the wall. We all became more technologically advanced and this should have brought about more freedoms and more rapid evolution of the human race but unfortunately companies like Apple slow this process sometimes to a crawl because of greed and lazyness. Thats why its a big deal. THIS IS AMERICA AND WE STAND FOR FREEDOM!!! Even people who dont want the kind of freedom Android offers over Apple can still benfit from using Android. Theres just no reason for Apple to have this strategy.
Its sounds as if you think because there wasnt a mass defection from Apple that Apple is safe. Nothing is guaranteed and a defection has started. People are getting annoyed and see that maybe there are better options. There is once you open your eyes. Apples strategy has indeed made them what they are today but if they dont change they will find themselves right back where they started. Its time for them to evolve and it seems as if it would be better if they start by letting Steve Jobs go and begin working on closing that revolving door of personnel behind the scenes. | |
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| | | | | |  Subaru1-3-2-4Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT | Re: How long will this last? will this android device be in kmart this weekend? | |
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| | | | | | | | said by FLATLINE: I dont have nearly the restrictions with my Windows PC that my friends does with his Mac. Mainly due to the market share but even still. What I can do with a $400 laptop compared to his $1200 mac makes him sick. And it should. Yet Mac's market growth has surged in the last few years. It costs more, less flexible, and it certainly isn't the loose cause everyone's doing designer pc's... Ipod's and Iphones work on windows so that's not the reason... then why? Cause apple is selling to the average user. Smartphone (and most of apples) growth have come from less tech savy users. One that don't use linux, don't like 5 diferent phones that you have to configure each in his own way each time you change. They want something sleek, trendy, works (as good as any phone) and that they can't mess up... They want a car that you don't tune, a tv that set's itself. Thats their market and they are killing in it. They are the people who didnt use Blackberrys, htc's or other palm/windows phones... This is a market that doesn't use google chrome, gmail and certainly not a highly configurable phone that's different every time they buy a new one... | |
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| | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: How long will this last? His friend is sick because his 1200 mac can't do what a 400 PC can do... maybe his friend should give up the mac and go PC.. its a simple choice... one his friend allegedly isn't doing. Maybe some people just aren't capable of making informed choices... mac clearly isn't for him.
However, for many people that don't need the flexibility of a PC, and want something more simple and dumbed down, and if they like a mac, then a mac is a good option for them.
When ever I hear anyone either state that at mac is too locked down for them, or has a friend his is upset because their mac won't let them do what a PC can... um.. just don't know what to think because it's really quite simple.. get a PC. | |
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: How long will this last? Your right he didnt make an informed decision. And going out and getting a PC now just isnt possible for him. Sometime in the near future he probably will but again getting something for a non tech savvy person shouldnt compromise freedoms to expand or adjust going forward. In other words, not needing flexibility doesnt mean the option shouldnt be there. Quite frankly Windows 7 is very easy to use for beginners and yet the OS provides room for that users growth whether they need it or not.
I think it also needs to be said. While I dont like Apple and what it stands for I believe having a strong and open Apple in the market place can benefit all. | |
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| | | | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: How long will this last? Well.. he could EASILY sell that mac for enough money to buy a PC - mac's tend to hold resale pretty well too.
And I have to disagree with something you said:
"In other words, not needing flexibility doesnt mean the option shouldnt be there."
I disagree... there's nothing that says apple should nor needs to leave the flexibility in their product such as the way the PC platform does.. why should it? They have built a product and designed it for simplicity of use.. not to leave as much options and flexibility as the PC does. If apple was the same as PC - then what would make them any different.. the GUI?
As for Windows 7 being very easy for beginners... quite honestly, so is Windows XP.
What really distinguishes the two platforms (mac and windows) is the registry.
The two platforms are two totally different beasts - and quite honestly its a good thing.
If people want flexibility but like the look of the mac, then take the PC and change the GUI to look like the mac OS.. problem solved.. because then you have the flexibility with the look of the mac.
As long as apple is not in the majority, I doubt you're going to see them change anytime soon.. PC provides plenty of flexibility for an overwhelming majority of users both personal and business. | |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: How long will this last? Its people who think like you that let Apple off the hook. Again there is no need to be closed in order to provide security and simplicity. Microsoft has done it with Windows 7. As for selling the Mac well I dont know where you live but hes going to take a loss selling his mac here. he'll get by and learn from his mistake. im not worried about it. Its just unfortunate. I also never said Apple has to do anything Im just saying it should. Maybe I should have stated that as MY OPINION. But I figured that would be a given. As far as the GUI? Who cares about the GUI. Thats not an issue for me at all.
But I guess this is going to be one of those situations where we agree to disagree. | |
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| | | | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: How long will this last? Okay... if it's not about the GUI, then what IS it about? ... if you want an open source mac, go get a linux machine. What do you think mac's O/S is based on?
I'm not letting apple off the hook - you imply that I have that kind of control over them or matter enough to be in the position to put them ON the hook; it's one or the other. However, it's not me letting them off the hook.. it's apple's CUSTOMERS that are "letting them off the hook"...
My point is simple.. apple has developed a product that meets a base of customer's needs. For that, they are a success. So quite honestly, if you wan to say what you are about me letting them off the hook, so be it.. then I am, because I disagree with this high n' mighty attitude that apple has some sort of obligation to open up and not be so closed as they are. Right now as it stands, that's their choice, it's what they do, their customer base overwhelming has no issues with it and they aren't seeking a dominance position in the market place like M/S was, and has.
You're advocating less choice, to be honest. By YOU saying apple should loosen up, you're also mandating your belief on to the base of customers that obviously are okay with what apple is doing. YOU are effectively telling apple's customers that what they have isn't what they SHOULD have. How do you know that apple customers DON'T want their system closed? There are people that believe when M/S had to open their platform and went open market that it made things worse. You have M/S writing the O/S, you have various hardware makers pumping out parts, and then you have software developers writing programs.. when something goes wrong, people are often forced to hunt down the source and it costs money. For some people, it's okay, but for the "I want it to just work" people and "..don't need so much flexibility".. well, apple has covered that part of the market.
The thing that you, and those with the same argument as you, are not realizing is that you are trying to force YOUR views and YOUR desires into every aspect of the market place so that you can retain and reserve the right to be their customer. The hard reality is that not every business is going to want you as a customer and apple has made that clear by what they do. As harsh as that sounds, that a business doesn't want your business, it's reality.
Apple isn't for everyone... Ford isn't for everyone... Sony, isn't for everyone.. and that's awesome! That means there are DIFFERENT VIEWS and DIFFERENT IDEAS and DIFFERENT CONCEPTS out there to meet the needs of many people. At least 10% of the market likes apple... and I don't think many mac fans don't know about the way their eco system works.
I'd bet your friend won't buy a mac again... he's also clearly capable of selling his laptop and getting enough money to buy that PC he wants.. or "needs"...
Ebay is a big market place, so it doesn't matter where I live or where he lives.. and sure, he's going to take a loss in selling his mac.. EVERYONE is going to take a loss in selling anything they buy, even if you bought it new and sold it as new.. you're going to take a loss. The market place isn't going to buy from a private seller at retail when they can GO retail and get backed by a warranty, etc. However, he got use of his mac and can take a loss.. not sure exactly what machine he has, but to be honest, if he got $500 for it, and I'm sure he can, that's plenty of money to buy a PC based laptop. | |
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| | | | | | | | |  56403739Less than 5 months leftPremium
join:2006-03-08
Naples, FL
kudos:2 | Re: How long will this last? said by fiberguy:Okay... if it's not about the GUI, then what IS it about? ... if you want an open source mac, go get a linux machine. What do you think mac's O/S is based on? It's not based on Linux, that's for sure. | |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: How long will this last? said by 56403739:said by fiberguy:Okay... if it's not about the GUI, then what IS it about? ... if you want an open source mac, go get a linux machine. What do you think mac's O/S is based on? It's not based on Linux, that's for sure. BSD I believe...
quote:
Certain parts from FreeBSD's and NetBSD's implementation of Unix were incorporated in Nextstep, the core of Mac OS X
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X | |
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| | | | | | | | | 56403739Less than 5 months leftPremium
join:2006-03-08
Naples, FL
kudos:2 | Re: How long will this last? You are correct. And BSD is not Linux. | |
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| | | | | | | | | CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | Re: How long will this last? Unix.... | |
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| | | | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
1 edit | annnnnnnd what is Linux based on.. if you want to play symantecs, fine.. I should have said unix.. but they're all among and along the same platform.
corrected a typo | |
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| | | | | | | | | CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | Re: How long will this last? said by fiberguy:annnnnnnd what is Unix based on.. if you want to play symantecs, fine.. I should have said unix.. but they're all among and along the same platform. Isn't unix based on.....unix?
Unix (officially trademarked as UNIX, sometimes also written as Unix with small caps) is a computer operating system originally developed in 1969 by a group of AT&T employees at Bell Labs, including Ken Thompson, Dennis Ritchie, Brian Kernighan, Douglas McIlroy, and Joe Ossanna. Today's Unix systems are split into various branches, developed over time by AT&T as well as various commercial vendors and non-profit organizations. | |
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| | | | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: How long will this last? re read my post.. correcting a typo makes more sense now. | |
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| | | | | | | | | CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | Re: How long will this last? said by fiberguy:re read my post.. correcting a typo makes more sense now. I just got back, was at work earlier, I didn't get to see the correction until now  | |
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| | | | | | | | | 56403739Less than 5 months leftPremium
join:2006-03-08
Naples, FL
kudos:2 | said by fiberguy:if you want to play symantecs, fine.. It's not semantics. It's called getting the facts right. | |
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| | | | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: How long will this last? said by 56403739:said by fiberguy:if you want to play symantecs, fine.. It's not semantics. It's called getting the facts right. I agree... and that's something that about 80% of users here rarely can ever do... unless emotional ranting is "facts".. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Your right. Its certainly no secret what Apples market is mostly made up of. I also dont see a problem with this market. My problem is that it still doesnt justify Apple locking down and dictating what can and cant be done with these devices. Or any manufacturer for that matter. Motorola has recently made news with the Droid X. If you dont want to get all geeky with the device you certainly dont need to but one day you may decide that you need a change or more capability and then what? Your at the mercy of some idiot who thinks he knows better than you. | |
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| | | | | | | said by fiberguy:It just goes to show you how much people believe they're right while making their predictions based on their own personal bias and emotions. Speaking from experience, you're right about that. | |
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| | | | 56403739Less than 5 months leftPremium
join:2006-03-08
Naples, FL
kudos:2 | said by FBGuy:10 years? really? you know what happens in 10 years? no, me neither. Hell, in 10 years Jobs is 65 and on his private island. When he leaves, Apple is dust. The only question is when. | |
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| | Reviews:
 ·Optimum Online
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| True, but before I plunk down MY money... I want the latest verisions of Flash & Java to work on them without being sluggish. Then, kaching... $$ these companies will make some serious money screwing over apple. | |
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| | bdon78I didn't do it
join:2009-05-18
Decatur, GA
1 edit | I partially disagree. I think that Apple maintains their hold over consumers with iTunes and the ease of maintaining (ease, not cost) your music library, etc, is what keeps people coming back to them. Its more than the iPhone/iPad hype (though, the hype is huge).
Until a competitor comes up with something comparable to the "i" suite of products and services, Apple will probably keep a hold of a lot of consumers. Who wants to have to sync a phone, and an iPod, and a netbook/tablet...
Isn't google rumored to be working on an iTunes-esque software/media store? (and will they innovate or just copy?) | |
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| | CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | I would rather stick with Archos for my Android Tablet. Who is this AugenUS anyway? Never even heard of them. | |
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| |  RickPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT | This will make a huge dent in apples ipad sales. 150 bucks? Versus what they want for the iPad?
Who would pay iPad prices with this out there? They'd have to be nuts.
Might need to run on over to Kmart and check it out.
Is it part of the Martha Stewart Collection?
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| | | CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | Re: How long will this last? said by Subaru:I don't see anything about this Augen Gentouch is this something that just came out and is only at K-mart? Interesting, according to the site, they have been around since 2004, site was registered in 2006.
I think I will stay away from this one. | |
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| | | | Subaru1-3-2-4Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT Reviews:
 ·Packet8
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·AT&T Yahoo
·Optimum Online
·STANAPHONE
| Re: How long will this last? said by Cheese:said by Subaru:I don't see anything about this Augen Gentouch is this something that just came out and is only at K-mart? Interesting, according to the site, they have been around since 2004, site was registered in 2006. I think I will stay away from this one. I don't know.. pretty temping
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It's NOT Ni-kon It's NE-KON!
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| |  yongar
join:2000-12-08
Long Beach, CA | I was looking for a device like that. thanks.
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Action Yongar | |
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|  baineschile2600 ways to livePremium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI | As long as Kevin Mitnick says it will last. | |
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1 edit | said by Jerm:Do you think Apple can keep this up long term? Sadly, yes. People love that little white logo (formerly rainbow colored, for those of us who remember the hell Macs used to be).
The obviousness of their overpricing on parts and total systems makes things even more hilarious.
My favorite was when they introduced their Intel Core 2 Quad line of MacBook Pro's. Now the MacBooks were over $2,000USD each at baseline pricing. Now here is my favorite part: At the time, I was pricing out a Mobile Intel Core 2 Quad for my laptop, the lowest of which I could've purchased for $360 from ProVantage for a 2.0GHz CPU. The highest cost just under $1,000 USD for a 2.53GHz CPU.
Here is Mac's pricing scheme (note this is just for the CPU. This doesn't count cost of other parts totally out the sum of the product): Lowest, 1.33GHz Mobile Intel Core 2 Quad CPU (mind you the lowest OEM chip or retail chip you could get was a 2.0GHz one), $900. Highest, 1.66GHz Mobile Intel Core 2 Quad CPU, $1200.
I cannot see the justification in that. Justify that please. Apple fanboys? | |
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| | | said by Jerm:"Apple has claimed that downloading applications not approved by their application store is illegal" "In an April security bulletin, Apple said “Unauthorized modification of iPhone OS has been a major source of instability, disruption of services, and other issues.”" Just like how Apple claimed the iPhone 4 antenna issue was software, does being successful require them to lie all the time? Do you think Apple can keep this up long term? Not only will they keep this up long term, but the fanboi will keep defending them in the long term. If Apple says the sky is purple, it's purple. End of story. Saint Steve says, so, let it be done. | |
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Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4
1 edit |  Here is link to EFF press release - EFF got rules approved
P.S. While making jailbreaking & unlocking LEGAL, it does not make Apple or other cell providers keep warranties in force if you break their rules. It just means that they can't sue you successfully for DMCA violations. | |
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 SSX4lifeHello WorldPremium
join:2004-02-13
kudos:2 | Cracks in the dam? Perhaps we have seen a slight break in the DMCA dam? If it is legal to break access controls on devices what about other devices such as Xbox's / Blue Ray Players / DVD's / etc.
Your thoughts? | |
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funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | Apple users should donate to eff.org The EFF have been fighting to preserve users' rights about as early in cyberspace as I can remember. | |
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| | Wicked! Wonderful news, but I am already on a phone that is an "open platform".
It will be interesting to see what affects this will have down the road with other hardware! | |
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cghh
join:2001-01-15
Milpitas, CA | Illegal? I don't think that the Library of Congress actually declared these activities legal. As I understand it, they ruled that these things are not violations of the DMCA, so you cannot be dragged into court for doing these things by asserting a DMCA violation. But nothing prevents users from being dragged into court under other laws, such as breach of contract. So at&t could still terminate your service and have you forfeit your EFT if they catch you jailbreaking an iPhone, as a violation of the TOS.
At least that was the interpretation when they made a similar ruling about GSM unlocking. | |
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|  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5
·Frontier FiOS
| Re: Illegal? said by cghh:But nothing prevents users from being dragged into court under other laws, such as breach of contract. So at&t could still terminate your service and have you forfeit your EFT if they catch you jailbreaking an iPhone, as a violation of the TOS. Your contract with AT&T doesn't stipulate that you can't jailbreak your APPLE iPhone, at least as far as I can tell. As such, they would be baseless for terminating your contract and you being required to owe an ETF. If they chose to kick you because of that, that may be their perogative and/or legal option, but they wouldn't be able to zap you with an ETF.
Your license agreement with Apple may prohibit you from jailbreaking it, but to that extent the most that Apple would be able to come after you with is the value of the contract. They couldn't argue much in the way of punitive damages. The cost for their lawyer to draft up even the initial paperwork would exceed anything they that they potentially could recover, and the huge backlash is just not worth the PR costs. | |
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 gballMaster YodaPremium
join:2000-11-28
South Bend, IN | well Its good to know there needs to be a law or whatever to let me know I can do whatever the hell I want with a product I bought with my money!!
thanks | |
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 brydry...it's meat-cake
join:2004-12-05
Safety Harbor, FL | hmmm.... Does this also mean I can now play a dvd movie on my Linux box without worry of committing a felony?
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Go Pats! | |
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| | Hmmm.. Does this mean that I can now force Sprint to let me use a Verizon phone on their network (and vice versa)? | |
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| cghh
join:2001-01-15
Milpitas, CA | Re: Hmmm.. said by qworster:Does this mean that I can now force Sprint to let me use a Verizon phone on their network (and vice versa)? It doesn't require them to do anything. It just prevents them from prosecuting you under the DMCA for doing these things. They can still terminate service (and charge you EFT) and void warranties. | |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Duh Why would it be "illegal" to alter or modify a piece of property that you already own in the first place?
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"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service. | |
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| | | Re: Duh Steve Jobs is probably freaking out. Apple's entire business revolves around telling its user what they can and can't do. I'm sorry but if I buy the device I should be able to decide what software I want to load on it and not have to pray to the almighty Steve Jobs for his approval. DOWN with Apple and their condescending attitude!
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Certs: CCNA, GPEN, GCIH, GCFW, GSEC, GCIA, GCFA | |
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| | Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | Re: Duhsaid by Crypto_Bug:Steve Jobs is probably freaking out. Apple's entire business revolves around telling its user what they can and can't do. I'm sorry but if I buy the device I should be able to decide what software I want to load on it and not have to pray to the almighty Steve Jobs for his approval. DOWN with Apple and their condescending attitude! One opinion on what Apple will do:
»www.crunchgear.com/2010/07/26/ho···ey-wont/
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Are you happy with your rep in Washington, DC? | |
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1 edit | said by pnh102:Why would it be "illegal" to alter or modify a piece of property that you already own in the first place? Because money buys politicians. Should be illegal and prosecuted, but it is not. I believe from events around us that corporations in this country can commit ANY CRIME without repercussions. | |
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| cghh
join:2001-01-15
Milpitas, CA | said by pnh102:Why would it be "illegal" to alter or modify a piece of property that you already own in the first place? The only thing I can think of would be if you do something that breaks the FCC type certification on the radio transmitter. You cannot just go put some circuits together yourself and start transmitting on the cellular frequencies; it needs to be approved by the FCC and used under a license (that the providers have). Amateur radio licensees can build and use their own equipment for use in the amateur bands, but it is different on the cellular bands. | |
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kaila
join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL
1 edit | Think Apple (and others) will up the ante and use eFuse? Or similar software modification detection systems that results in hardware crippling to keep owners in line?
Another question... do these rules remove the warranty release for software modifications that manufacturers seem to love?
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Jeff Howe
Jeff's Blog - »www.ostjournal.net | |
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1 edit | Apple? If Apple's products start to really suck, or if large numbers of people decide to not buy their stuff just because it's from Apple, they might have a problem. There's a reason Apple is making it big, and unless all that goes away, they'll be here. Like them or not. | |
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 GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:4 | I had no idea That those douchebags had claimed that downloading applications not approved by their application store is illegal.
Talk about arrogance . . . | |
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| 56403739Less than 5 months leftPremium
join:2006-03-08
Naples, FL
kudos:2 | Re: I had no idea It's worse. They claimed that the mere act of modifying the phone's software to enable downloading non-Apple-store apps is illegal under the DMCA. The reason is the same one that AT&T once used to prevent non-AT&T phones from being used..."potential damage to the network".
Finally someone at the Library of Congress has turned on their brain... | |
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| |  MaggsPremium
join:2002-11-29
Woodside, NY
·RCN CABLE
| Re: I had no idea said by 56403739:It's worse. They claimed that the mere act of modifying the phone's software to enable downloading non-Apple-store apps is illegal under the DMCA. The reason is the same one that AT&T once used to prevent non-AT&T phones from being used..."potential damage to the network". Finally someone at the Library of Congress has turned on their brain... Well they are in the world's largest library, it's about time! | |
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| | GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:4 | Ridiculous. But, I suppose, those arrogant SOBs can write whatever they want to scare away the clueless. | |
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| | Everyone seems to be overlooking something Everyones so hyper about jailbreaking
but they ruled that carriers must allow us to unlock our phones.
DOES THIS MEAN APPLE and ATT has to ALLOW US to unlock our phones if we request it?
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Email/MSN: Michael at hardwaregeeks.comAIM: MikeR35292 | |
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|  Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
·Comcast
| Re: Everyone seems to be overlooking something said by HardwareGeek:DOES THIS MEAN APPLE and ATT has to ALLOW US to unlock our phones if we request it? No, they just can't file criminal charges if you do so yourself.
AT&T can still ban you from their network and Apple can also ban your iTunes account since that has nothing to do with the criminal law.
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
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| | VZW Verizon has been unlocking some of there phones for a while now. Not sure what point I am making but somewhere there is a point even if it is a blunt one. | |
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| | Open Apple Dispite the popularity of the iPhone, Apple is going to get royally bitten. If they think they can continue with the same busines model that they've had for the past 3 or 4 years they are sadly mistaken. evry industry has what I call a 'rotation event'. Some company comes out with some gizmo and it's real popular for a while but then someone else comes out with a better gizmo and everybody rotates over that. Then a few years later it happens again with another company.
Apple had better wake up and start adapting before they loose it all. | |
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