 Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium join:2002-03-03 USA kudos:4 | When do we get FTTD ? MOCA takes FTTH and then uses coax to devices in the home. So, when do we get FTTD(Fiber to the Device). That way Verizon's commercials about 100% fiber will actually be true. -- Are you happy with your rep in Washington, DC? | |
|
 |  openbox9 join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA kudos:2 | Re: When do we get FTTD ? You can always fiber your house now. You'd still require a media converter for most consumer devices, but you'd be down to the last meter not being fiber. | |
|
 |  | | said by Romney2012:So, when do we get FTTD(Fiber to the Device). Welcome to 1999. There's nothing stopping you from running fiber all through your house... -- .:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home! | |
|
 |  |  |
 |  |  |  axus join:2001-06-18 Washington, DC | Re: When do we get FTTD ? Hehe, think how much trouble Verizon has getting it from their network to your house for FIOS! Running wire isn't cheap. I've put off running a wire from upstairs to my living room, because wireless is "good enough" for now. | |
|
 |  |  |  |  | | Re: When do we get FTTD ? said by axus:Hehe, think how much trouble Verizon has getting it from their network to your house for FIOS! Yes, I can see how your comparison is valid. Running miles and miles of fiber underground/aerial to cover a large geographic area is similar to running some cables through some walls in a house...
Running wire isn't cheap. It's quite affordable... -- .:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home! | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: When do we get FTTD ? I'm pretty sure he meant that as a comparison, saying..
"I'm having this much trouble with my house, I can't imagine wiring an entire network."
see my point?
..rather, his? | |
|
 |  |  |  rradina join:2000-08-08 Chesterfield, MO | Why is this so hard?
FIRST FLOOR: Houses have basements or crawl spaces. Locate the inside wall, drill through the sub-floor into the wall cavity, cut a hole for the wall box next to a stud, Snake the wire through the floor out the drywall hole. Install a box. Done. NOTE: You may have to deal with floor joist insulation in houses with crawl spaces. If the basement is finished...well...you'll have to go external if it's finished with drywall ceilings unless the room is over an unfinished area.
SECOND FLOOR: Locate a return air duct on the second floor. Remove the grill, drop a rope with a weight. If it's a straight shot, it will come out in the basement. Locate the stud wall in attic and drill into the duct cavity. Run the wire from the basement through the return air duct and into the attic. Once in the attic, you are home free to drop down into inside walls.
If you cannot find a duct that is a straight shot to the basement, that is, they all make a jog in some direction to join up with a first floor wall before dropping into the basement, usually there's one where the other side of the duct's wall is in a closet. Carefully remove the baseboard trim from the closet wall and carefully cut a hole at the floor into the duct. Use the hole to snake your fish tape through the jog. Replace the drywall, throw some tape and hot mud on it, do a quick sand job, paint and put the baseboard trim back. Most folks don't get too picky about the perfection of a wall in their closet as long as you ask by explaining what you are going to do and they approve. | |
|
 |  |  |  |  DeathKPremium join:2002-06-16 Cincinnati, OH | Re: When do we get FTTD ? Or use the space around the main drain vent pipe to run the lines up to the attic. | |
|
 |  |  |  |  cghh join:2001-01-15 Milpitas, CA | said by rradina:Why is this so hard?FIRST FLOOR: Houses have basements or crawl spaces. Locate the inside wall, drill through the sub-floor into the wall cavity, cut a hole for the wall box next to a stud, Snake the wire through the floor out the drywall hole. Install a box. Done. NOTE: You may have to deal with floor joist insulation in houses with crawl spaces. If the basement is finished...well...you'll have to go external if it's finished with drywall ceilings unless the room is over an unfinished area. SECOND FLOOR: Locate a return air duct on the second floor. Remove the grill, drop a rope with a weight. If it's a straight shot, it will come out in the basement. Locate the stud wall in attic and drill into the duct cavity. Run the wire from the basement through the return air duct and into the attic. Once in the attic, you are home free to drop down into inside walls. I guess that works if your house has a basement or crawl space, and air ducts are at floor level. My house has a concrete slab foundation and air ducts in the ceiling. | |
|
 |  |  |  |  | | said by rradina:Why is this so hard?FIRST FLOOR: Houses have basements or crawl spaces. Locate the inside wall, drill through the sub-floor into the wall cavity, cut a hole for the wall box next to a stud, Snake the wire through the floor out the drywall hole. Install a box. Done. NOTE: You may have to deal with floor joist insulation in houses with crawl spaces. If the basement is finished...well...you'll have to go external if it's finished with drywall ceilings unless the room is over an unfinished area. SECOND FLOOR: Locate a return air duct on the second floor. Remove the grill, drop a rope with a weight. If it's a straight shot, it will come out in the basement. Locate the stud wall in attic and drill into the duct cavity. Run the wire from the basement through the return air duct and into the attic. Once in the attic, you are home free to drop down into inside walls. If you cannot find a duct that is a straight shot to the basement, that is, they all make a jog in some direction to join up with a first floor wall before dropping into the basement, usually there's one where the other side of the duct's wall is in a closet. Carefully remove the baseboard trim from the closet wall and carefully cut a hole at the floor into the duct. Use the hole to snake your fish tape through the jog. Replace the drywall, throw some tape and hot mud on it, do a quick sand job, paint and put the baseboard trim back. Most folks don't get too picky about the perfection of a wall in their closet as long as you ask by explaining what you are going to do and they approve. Again, why FTTD? There is no technology today, that your or I need, that demands this amount of bandwidth. MOCA secondary to FTTH is just fine.
On another note, if wiring your home is so simple, wire it yourself before the tech gets there. | |
|
 |  |  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | said by Mr Matt:  Running any wiring or fiber in any modern Two Story House is a real nose bleed. I wanted to install CAT5e to several rooms on the first floor of this house. The electrician indicated that to run wiring to those rooms, would require cutting holes in the first floor ceiling or running the wiring on outside walls through conduit. Replacing shitty residential ceiling with suspended office ceiling so you can rewire your house whenever you feel like it. | |
|
 |  |  | | It's not that difficult in most cases... | |
|
 |  | | Verizon's commercials state that it is a 100% firber optic network. The network is 100% fiber, once it hits the ONT it is no longer Verizons network, it is your internal wiring that is not fiber. -- DFI UT X58-T3eH8, 9GB PC3-10666, Silverstone ST1000-P, EVGA GTX280 SC, Core i7 920 @ 200 x 19, Noctua NH-U12P in Push-Pull, Mountain Mods H2GO | |
|
 |  tshirtPremium,MVM join:2004-07-11 Snohomish, WA kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
| And WHY would you need FTTD? 1}requires an additional expensive converter for EACH device. 2} puts relatively fragile fiber throughout the house. 3}offers little, if any USEFUL speed advantage to current residential LAN capabilities.
Moca is a good/OK way to reuse existing coax, Gig ethernet is faster, easier and cheaper to run as well as being more durable and easily/cheaply repaired, WHEN needed. | |
|
 |  |  | | Re: When do we get FTTD ? Yeah I'd rather have cat6 to the device then future devices will be powered buy that cat6 and the data will come from the cat 6 to. Thats what I hear anyway.Plus cat 6 is much cheaper to install in a home then it is to run fiber throughout it. I would like fiber to my home then inside the home a cat 6 network but for now i'll settle for cable cause no ftth in my area. | |
|
 |  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | said by tshirt: And WHY would you need FTTD? 1}requires an additional expensive converter for EACH device. 2} puts relatively fragile fiber throughout the house. 3}offers little, if any USEFUL speed advantage to current residential LAN capabilities. Because the back of my head has an SC connector for me to uplink to the mothership. | |
|
 | | So if moca can do it. So if MOCA is able to send that much data through coax that should prove that its not coax that is the problem with HFC networks and that its how they USE the coax thats the problem . | |
|
 |  |
 |  jmn1207Premium join:2000-07-19 Ashburn, VA | With around a 50MHz band, there wouldn't be much room for too many customers per "node". HFC can increase speeds now with DOCSIS, but they would have to drastically reduce the number of users per node to keep up with FTTH's potential capacity (at least for downloads), and it starts becoming more practical to go with a fiber solution, especially when upkeep is taken into consideration. | |
|
 |  |  | | Re: So if moca can do it. LIke i said its not the coax its the docsis standard. Look into what narad networks was able to do with coax. ITs how docsis uses the coax not the medium itself. | |
|
 |  |  |  jmn1207Premium join:2000-07-19 Ashburn, VA | Re: So if moca can do it. If somebody can come up with a coax solution that can provide similar capacity as current GPON (~2.4 Gbps/1.2 Gbps) technology shared amongst 16-32 users, it will survive for a very long time.
Something to consider would be how much time might be necessary to achieve this level of performance, and would it make more sense at some point to just run fiber to the premises after factoring in all of the R&D and maintenance/labor costs to upkeep a last mile coax implementation?
At the moment, there is not a lot of pressure on the cable giants to change to a FTTH infrastructure. The majority of their customers appear to be content. (at least the market environment gives the illusion of satisfaction) If this were to change and cable has a difficult time keeping up, unless a breakthrough happens with current coax implementations, they may have to upgrade the last mile to fiber in order to satisfy demand.
I don't see this happening anytime soon. It's great for cable, as they can wait as fiber deployments inevitably become cheaper to install. While they're waiting, alternate solutions that will provide the most profitable returns on their investments can be tested. | |
|
 |  |  |  |  1 edit | Re: So if moca can do it. said by jmn1207:If somebody can come up with a coax solution that can provide similar capacity as current GPON (~2.4 Gbps/1.2 Gbps) technology shared amongst 16-32 users, it will survive for a very long time. The problem isn't that it's not doable (it is) the problem is that it would a. not be compatible with legacy users b. require node splits to get it down to 16-32 users and c. require using an expanded and possibly different range of frequencies for the return.
In the end it's not impossible, but it might end up being more expensive than a full fiber to the home rebuild, especially since DOCSIS3 can match Verizon's current speeds without kicking off legacy users. | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  jmn1207Premium join:2000-07-19 Ashburn, VA 1 edit | Re: So if moca can do it. I don't think that we have DOCSIS3 matching Verizon's FiOS as much as Verizon being content to just follow cable as the need for speed increases. If the subscriptions begin to wane as a result of speed issues that are only offered by competition in the area, FiOS will have to counter. These expensive 100Mbps+ tiers with puny uploads are not taking away any significant business from Verizon, and subscription levels are increasing every quarter.
Verizon seems confident that cable will not be able to improve their capacity at a lower cost than what they can achieve where FiOS is deployed. Until subscriptions start to flatten or fall, there is nothing for Verizon to do except wait to see what cable can do and how they plan on doing it.
Edit: Keep in mind, Verizon's FiOS is a small player in both internet and TV services. Comcast is the one that controls what consumers can expect with regards to performance. It's not like the consumers have any real opportunity to spur innovation or change, considering the lack of any legitimate options. | |
|
 |  |  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | said by majortom1029:LIke i said its not the coax its the docsis standard. Look into what narad networks was able to do with coax. ITs how docsis uses the coax not the medium itself. Narad required its own bypass amplifer at every tap/splitter/fitting. Its purpose, AFAIK, was to deliver SLA business ethernet over the existing coax going from the pole/fiber node/last fiber point in ROW, to the telephone closet in the office building, rather than excavating the street to run a fiber duct from the pole to the office building, then running the fiber through the utility closets up the high rise. Did I mention building permits (lets ignore road permits) and city building inspector has to come because cutting a hole in the office building's floor involves fire code.
Not having to run fiber for the last 300 feet to the customer in a building with hard line coax already was the point of NARAD. Problem was, any business that can afford SLA internet can afford $50K of construction charges. | |
|
 |  | | That only proves that coax is not a problem over very short distance. | |
|
 |  | | said by majortom1029:So if MOCA is able to send that much data through coax that should prove that its not coax that is the problem with HFC networks and that its how they USE the coax thats the problem . Shhhh dont say that, fiber fanboys will be upset! | |
|
 |  |  | | Re: So if moca can do it. said by fifty nine:said by majortom1029:So if MOCA is able to send that much data through coax that should prove that its not coax that is the problem with HFC networks and that its how they USE the coax thats the problem . Shhhh dont say that, fiber fanboys will be upset! Keep in mind, MoCA is for SHORT distances. Attenuation on the frequencies used is atrocious over any long distances. | |
|
 |  |  |  | | Re: So if moca can do it. said by firehawk618:said by fifty nine:said by majortom1029:So if MOCA is able to send that much data through coax that should prove that its not coax that is the problem with HFC networks and that its how they USE the coax thats the problem . Shhhh dont say that, fiber fanboys will be upset! Keep in mind, MoCA is for SHORT distances. Attenuation on the frequencies used is atrocious over any long distances. Keep in mind you already have 5GPS entering your home already. It's just that most of it is used for video. | |
|
 |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | said by majortom1029:So if MOCA is able to send that much data through coax that should prove that its not coax that is the problem with HFC networks and that its how they USE the coax thats the problem . The frequencies MOCA uses require amplifiers every 200 feet for an MSO to use them ...... | |
|
 |
|