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story category MPAA: Filtering Pirates Would Increase Capacity
The massive loss of customers would probably boost capacity, too...
08:49AM Friday Mar 28 2008 by Karl
tags: legal · Fileswapping · business · content
The entertainment industry on Thursday continued efforts to convince ISPs they should filter pirated material from their networks. "If they can reduce some of the infringing content, then there will be more capacity for their paying customers," insists MPAA CTO John Williams. "Much of the Internet is being clogged up with stolen goods," Williams said at a technology policy conference in Hollywood. "Basically you have a bunch of free riders who are hogging the bandwidth (and taking) it away from legitimate consumers," he says.

Great, other than the fact that people who pay for bandwidth aren't "free riders," and an ISP that begins filtering P2P content can expect to lose a significant number of customers to an ISP that doesn't. Verzion's been a voice of reason on this front of late because their decision to actually invest in capacity (instead of whining about people actually using it) allows them to avoid capping, throttling or other unpopular practices. At the same conference they stated they remain unwilling to be piracy police:
Our philosophy, a well-considered philosophy I might add, is that we are not the enforcers of the Internet. Our job is to deliver the bitstreams that our customers either ask for or send. We feel pretty strong about that...Can I even realistically assume that I could do those kinds of things? I'm not sure I could if I wanted to, but I don't think that's our job.
This lack of enthusiasm is why the entertainment industry is trying to get mandatory filtering laws passed on an international scale.

Related:
  1. 16 Million Americans Pirated A Film Last Month
  2. 'Captain Copyright' Killed
  3. Steve Jobs Would Eliminate DRM...
  4. MPAA: All ISPs Should Employ Piracy Filters
  5. RIAA: Anti-Virus Software Should Filter Pirated Content
  6. TorrentSpy Calls It Quits
  7. Primus Backs CAIP Against Bell Canada
  8. Comcast Scraps P2P 'Bill Of Rights' Idea
Forums » MPAA: Filtering Pirates Would Increase Capacity

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supergirl

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What % of File-sharing is Legal?

I've read only 1%.

If you have different, post the fact and link.

Don't give me the stealing is okay argument. Just facts.
--
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Alphy

join:2001-12-31
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Re: What % of File-sharing is Legal?

Where did you read that it was 1%? Please link me to that

supergirl

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Re: What % of File-sharing is Legal?

said by Alphy See Profile :

Where did you read that it was 1%? Please link me to that
I believe it was in the NY Times a few years ago.

I've went to Torrent sites. All I saw was illegal stuff. So, I bet the 99% of file-sharing is illegal is probably correct.
--
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Re: What % of File-sharing is Legal?

said by supergirl See Profile :

said by Alphy See Profile :

Where did you read that it was 1%? Please link me to that
I believe it was in the NY Times a few years ago.

I've went to Torrent sites. All I saw was illegal stuff. So, I bet the 99% of file-sharing is illegal is probably correct.
No, no, no. You got it backwards. The NYT said only 1% was illegal. I recently visited a torrent site and everything I saw was legal. I'm sure 99% of file-sharing is legal is probably correct.

Opinions. You can warp 'em any way you want!

supergirl

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Re: What % of File-sharing is Legal?

said by prestonlewis See Profile :

said by supergirl See Profile :

said by Alphy See Profile :

Where did you read that it was 1%? Please link me to that
I believe it was in the NY Times a few years ago.

I've went to Torrent sites. All I saw was illegal stuff. So, I bet the 99% of file-sharing is illegal is probably correct.
No, no, no. You got it backwards. The NYT said only 1% was illegal. I recently visited a torrent site and everything I saw was legal. I'm sure 99% of file-sharing is legal is probably correct.

Opinions. You can warp 'em any way you want!
Just when I didn't think I could find a more ridiculous comment.
--
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booticon

join:2007-07-31
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edit:
March 28th, @10:34AM

Re: What % of File-sharing is Legal?

Says the person who went to torrent sites where ALL THEY HAVE IS COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL. Yeah, that's the *only* place to get stuff via BitTorrent.

That 1% is probably right, given the sheer amount of copyright infringement that is done, but you've gotta find more evidence than a random NYT article you can't find and your searches through teh torrentz.

tiger72
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irony much?

themessiah13

@ameritech.net

said by supergirl See Profile :

Just when I didn't think I could find a more ridiculous comment.
Haha. This is hilarity. It is OK for you to use that reasoning but when it is turned around you it is unacceptable and ridiculous? This is what the word hypocrite in the English language refers to.

Silly Fool

@comcast.net

Umm you obviously are anti downloading copyright stuff from Bit Torrent.

Have you heard of Hulu, Joost or Fancast? Watched a Full Epidsode of your favorite TV show or caught a movie on these sites or on ABC, CBS, NBC, etc...?

If you have or have heard of these legal alternatives its because of our supposed pirate activities! We can thank piracy for these legal sites and thank the Pirate Bay guys for being pioneers!

Piracy equals progress! It always has...(from the printing press to today's supposed illegal downloading)
jubangy
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Re: What % of File-sharing is Legal?

said by Silly Fool :

Piracy equals progress! It always has...(from the printing press to today's supposed illegal downloading)
From apple to microsoft

Skeedatl
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said by prestonlewis See Profile :

said by supergirl See Profile :

said by Alphy See Profile :

Where did you read that it was 1%? Please link me to that
I believe it was in the NY Times a few years ago.

I've went to Torrent sites. All I saw was illegal stuff. So, I bet the 99% of file-sharing is illegal is probably correct.
No, no, no. You got it backwards. The NYT said only 1% was illegal. I recently visited a torrent site and everything I saw was legal. I'm sure 99% of file-sharing is legal is probably correct.

Opinions. You can warp 'em any way you want!
So me a torrent search engine that has 99% of their top results legal items, cause I can show you lots that are 99% (or more) illegal items.

These opinions are soundly based on observation.
BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

said by prestonlewis See Profile :

said by supergirl See Profile :

said by Alphy See Profile :

Where did you read that it was 1%? Please link me to that
I believe it was in the NY Times a few years ago.

I've went to Torrent sites. All I saw was illegal stuff. So, I bet the 99% of file-sharing is illegal is probably correct.
No, no, no. You got it backwards. The NYT said only 1% was illegal. I recently visited a torrent site and everything I saw was legal. I'm sure 99% of file-sharing is legal is probably correct.

Opinions. You can warp 'em any way you want!
Are you high? You probably think download a copy of your favorite movie or TV show via torrent is legal don't you?
jp10558
Premium
join:2005-06-24
Willseyville, NY

Re: What % of File-sharing is Legal?

Movie, no. TV Show?
Probably not legal, but much harder IMO to defend being illegial.

I can tape a TV show to VHS (and edit out commercials) and watch it later. That's legal. I can take that tape to a different location and watch it, and it's legal. I'm pretty sure most people would also think it's reasonable for me to give that tape to a friend and that would still be legal.

But if I download that show after it airs from a torrent (at a reduced quality if it's a 350MB XviD file) - that's illegial. This gets back to this color of the bits essay - it's kind of retarded IMO.
--
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Speedy8
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edit:
March 28th, @10:44PM

Re: What % of File-sharing is Legal?

Well, the main difference is that when you download a show via P2P, copies are being made and distributed. I'm sure if you were at home making thousands of copies of VHS tapes of shows without commercials and gave them to people it might be an issue. Personally I have no problems with people downloading TV shows, but I can see the argument vs just letting a friend borrow a tape you made or keeping it for your own use.

A more comparable analogy is recording a show yourself on your PC as a file instead of using a VHS tape.

hopeflicker
IheartPhotog
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Click for full size
said by BF69 See Profile :

You probably think download a copy of your favorite movie or TV show via torrent is legal don't you?
I find it equivalent to recording it to DVR or Tape.

My isp/tv provider is Verizon. Why should it matter if the ones and zeros are sent to my DVR or computer?
--
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Edge1
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Re: What % of File-sharing is Legal?

said by hopeflicker See Profile :

said by BF69 See Profile :

You probably think download a copy of your favorite movie or TV show via torrent is legal don't you?
I find it equivalent to recording it to DVR or Tape.

My isp/tv provider is Verizon. Why should it matter if the ones and zeros are sent to my DVR or computer?
I'd just like to point out that this is quality work (the graphic).

Actually, the article mentions "clogged up" pipes. Are there really any clogged up pipes? I mean, I don't have any problems consistently getting the full speed I paid for (DSL).

And I'm glad the article pointed out the loss of customers potential. Really, a lot of customers paying for that super-fast speed may opt down to the lowest tier or switch ISPs completely. Not a good business move except for, perhaps, the RIAA/MPAA. And that's truly debatable as well.

hopeflicker
IheartPhotog
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Re: What % of File-sharing is Legal?

said by Edge1 See Profile :

said by hopeflicker See Profile :

said by BF69 See Profile :

You probably think download a copy of your favorite movie or TV show via torrent is legal don't you?
I find it equivalent to recording it to DVR or Tape.

My isp/tv provider is Verizon. Why should it matter if the ones and zeros are sent to my DVR or computer?
I'd just like to point out that this is quality work (the graphic).

Bet you didnt know i was a full time artist by day, did ya
--
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moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
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said by supergirl See Profile :

I believe it was in the NY Times a few years ago.

I've went to Torrent sites. All I saw was illegal stuff. So, I bet the 99% of file-sharing is illegal is probably correct.
Yeah, we can really believe the NY Times.

Skeedatl
To Provoke and Annoy
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I'd believe it. Take a look at any file sharing search engine and see what the top results are. Every one I've seen, the first few pages of results are all copyrighted, stuff (either music, movies or software).

hopeflicker
IheartPhotog
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Re: What % of File-sharing is Legal?

Let's just go ahead and "believe" or "have a feeling" because of what we see.

Good thing we dont run our country this way. no, wait...
--
Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people.

Skeedatl
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Re: What % of File-sharing is Legal?

Yeah, don't use common sense or anything. Deny reality and claim that file-sharing isn't primarily piracy traffic.

It's a shame we don't run the country using more common sense.

tiger72
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Re: What % of File-sharing is Legal?

Go with yer gut!

How bout them Dubya Em Dees?
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said by Skeedatl See Profile :

It's a shame we don't run the country using more common sense.
Clearly.

Just because you saw a few sites that have some copyrighted material on them does not mean you can claim that most file sharing is illegal. Just because you do not know of the websites or have only seen one of them that have non-copyrighted material does not mean you can claim that either wise. When you come back with actual research done by a reputable organization using sound research methods (not the "Look, a couple of illegal file sharing sites, all of them must be illegal!" method) I will believe you.

P.S. - Running a search for "legal file sharing" will not give you a list of all legal file sharing sites. Sometimes -- just sometimes -- it takes a bit more than Googling a search term to find what you are looking for.
--

- "Techie" Jim

Skeedatl
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Re: What % of File-sharing is Legal?

A few sites? Try all of the most popular ones.

Ever seen an electron? No? I guess by your logic they must not exist.
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Re: What % of File-sharing is Legal?

said by Skeedatl See Profile :

A few sites? Try all of the most popular ones.
Does that equate to ALL file sharing? No.

said by Skeedatl See Profile :

Ever seen an electron? No? I guess by your logic they must not exist.
Noone really knows for sure, but at least there is enough SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to show that most-likely they do exist.

What scientific evidence is there that all (or most) file sharing is illegal? A few readily-disproved statistics in a few hardly-scientific newspapers or magazines? A couple of Joes browsing the internet and making claims based on their viewing of less than 0.01% of the internet?
--

- "Techie" Jim

Skeedatl
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Re: What % of File-sharing is Legal?

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
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Re: What % of File-sharing is Legal?

The funny part is, I'd bet around half of the "illegal" content isnt actually the "illegal" file it claims to be.
jimbo2150

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said by Skeedatl See Profile :

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.
Lets agree to disagree and let the users decide.
--

- "Techie" Jim

swedishfriend

@sbcglobal.net

said by Skeedatl See Profile :

A few sites? Try all of the most popular ones.

Ever seen an electron? No? I guess by your logic they must not exist.
electrons don't exist. They are an abstract concept used in physics to represent certain observations. The underlying nature of the physical universe is analogue (waves, vbrations, etc..) not bits of matter.
-Karl
jsouth
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Actually spam is the primary traffic.

TamaraB
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said by Skeedatl See Profile :

... the first few pages of results are all copyrighted, stuff ...
How do you know it is copyrighted stuff? You must have downloaded something, played it, and saw it was. Right? Hmmmmm so you violated copyright laws? There is NO OTHER way to identify copyright infringement.

These "guesstimates" of illegal P2P use are meaningless suppositions, which can't withstand legal scrutiny.

Bob
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foolonthenet

@jillyred.net

here's a fact supergirl,

bit torrent was created for bootleggers, by a fan of booleg concert recordings. it was created to help bootleggers share LEGALLY recorded concerts with fans of music, and other "tapers" (bootleggers).

there is still a very highly active community of "traders" who share LEGALLY recorded concerts amongst fans. what percentage this is, who cares? honestly it's a bunch of people who actually care about sharing something they've recorded with people who actually care about listening to it.
look up archive.org or bt.etree.org sometime. legal recordings. lots of people know about these places

torrents are also used by world of warcraft and MANY other games for updates/patches/installers/etc. there are just as many legal uses for this as there are illegal uses.

here's another thought about "file sharing"
you're doing it right now. you just shared a file by viewing this post. you share files when you copy anything anywhere. better stop the whole internet. better stop all communications now. if it can be viewed, heard, or both, it can be copied. should we outlaw microphones? video cameras? tacos? ...wait, you cant copy a taco digitally... yet...

I am going to state that 99% of all file sharing is perfectly legal. I'm probably not the first to state this either. Wow. copy a word document from laptop to desktop? wow, that's file sharing. copy a news article to your browser? sharing. copy anything from one system to another and it could be considered sharing.

sometimes I wonder why people can forget the most obvious things right in front of their faces, and then I remember that most people can't tell the difference between what they actually think and what they're told to think

La Luna
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Re: What % of File-sharing is Legal?

wow.....you didn't read supergirl See Profile's post, did you? She stated [paraphrasing] that what she saw available on torrent sites was almost all illegal and copyrighted files.

What does bloviating about *your* definition of "file sharing" have to do with what she saw? Check the top results on torrent sites to see what people are downloading.....it ain't legal.

I don't really care what people do or don't download, it's not my problem. But let's lose the ridiculous claims about "but, but I only download LEGAL *insert file type* files!!!" when we all know that's a crock in most cases. Legal files are "also" downloaded, but they are in no way the majority.
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Nightshade
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There has been no studies done on what percentage of file sharing is legal and what is not legal. So it's all conjecture and assumptions.

The fact is that simply put, no one knows.
--
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard

join:2002-01-22
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id ask the MPAA/RIAA to show me proof that if piracy went away tommorrow that prices would drop to compensate for the fact they dont need to fight it.

nope prices wouldnt fall, infact they would skyrocket because they wouldnt have to compete with free.
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KrK
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Somewhere between 1% and 100%.
bgraham

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edit:
March 28th, @09:00AM

Here we go again

We keep hearing the same crap. 80% of all network traffic is p2p copyrighted material. The internet is costing the entertainment industry a gazillion dollars a year in lost revenue.

Lots of words with little truth IMO. Numbers put together by the publicity department probably.

Frankly I could not care less about p2p because I don't use it, but why should ISP's be the internet police.

hopeflicker
IheartPhotog
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Re: Here we go again

said by bgraham See Profile :

We keep hearing the same crap. 80% of all network traffic is p2p copyrighted material. The internet is costing the entertainment industry a gazzilion dollars a year in lost revenue.

Lots of words with little truth IMO.
Yeah, we know how these organizations like to make up numbers. And it's been proven that they have made up numbers before.
--
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Warmachine99

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Re: Here we go again

Just remember: 83% of all statistics are made up.

Just like that one is.

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said by bgraham See Profile :

Lots of words with little truth IMO. Numbers put together by the publicity department probably.

There are lies, damned lies, and then there are entertainment industry piracy statistics.

I swear sometimes they pull numbers out of their a$$es.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)

hopeflicker
IheartPhotog
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That will work

mandatory filtering laws passed on an international scale.

LOL, WTF is an international law?
silly, silly corrupt organization.
--
Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
Albany, NY

Wow. I agree with Verizon

This is a rare day indeed, but I agree with the Verizon representative.

Can I even realistically assume that I could do those kinds of things? I'm not sure I could if I wanted to, but I don't think that's our job.
Even if they wanted to police the Internet for copyright violations, they could never fully succeed. There is just no way for them to tell which content is copyrighted *AND* being transferred without proper permission. Remember, content could be transferred without permission but be public domain or be copyrighted and transferred with permission. Also remember that "content" could be music, movies, books, software, photos, etc. So it's not just a simple matter of screening for audio or video files.

And even if Verizon decided to put a filter in place, they would lose their Common Carrier status and open themselves to lawsuits over the pirated materials that they didn't block. Someone downloaded a photo of mine and shared it via their FIOS connection? Sue Verizon, they have bigger pockets and should have filtered it. (For clarification, that's what a lawyer's reasoning would be, not mine.)

Verizon's smart to ignore the MPAA and focus on being a pipe provider. As a content provider, it's the MPAA's job to find where pirated material is coming from and make the effort to take it offline (via DMCA notice most likely). They just want to shift the cost off of them to someone else.
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rchandra
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They don't want to filter...Posh...Posh I say

They don't want to filter...so why is it Verizon customers can't run a standard Web server? They certainly filter out TCP port 80.

But what the speaker said is in essence true. With redirection services available (WebHop comes to mind), www.mydomain.net:80 becomes www2.mydomain:8800, problem sort of solved. Often, it doesn't take a whole ton of technology to steer around such silliness.
--
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Jeopardy! replies REALLY suck!

booticon

join:2007-07-31
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Re: They don't want to filter...Posh...Posh I say

Apples and oranges. Don't have much first-hand experience with Verizon on the data side of things, but read your AUP re: running servers.

rchandra
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Re: They don't want to filter...Posh...Posh I say

Stay on target. The discussion is about their stated desire not to filter yet they do filter. What the AUP says or does not say, or should or should not say, is a separate discussion entirely.

And it's not my AUP anymore . I used to be a DSL customer, and a friend of mine is saying it applies to his FiOS. In fact, I was a DSL customer way back when the AUP allowed (personal) servers, and tcp/80 was not filtered. Then some big worm started making the rounds, and they slapped that one on there to try to limit its spread (and that actually worked fairly well...for worm control anyway).

Besides...many ISPs' ToS/AUP state "no servers of any kind," which is an extremely miguided statement to make. A server very well could mean software that replies to requests. Ergo, if you ARP for my MAC address, if I hold to the letter of the policy, I can't reply and still remain under the agreement. I can't reply to a single ICMP such as "ping," I can't even send an "X" unreachable ICMP message with X in (port, network, protocol) as that would be responding to a request...or serving. Hooboy...not a single point-to-point chat, IRC DCC or CTCP, no VoIP...the typical statement is silly, and in my experience, rarely enforced.
--
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Jeopardy! replies REALLY suck!

TK Junk Mail
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The mall analogy

I have a good analogy on why ISPs should police their service.

Take a shopping mall:
It has customers(same as internet)
It has providers,the stores(same as internet)
The mall is there just as a service mechanism(same as an ISP on the internet) so that customers can reach the providers.

But a mall polices their property and they don't allow fences to sell stolen goods or other illegal operations to setup and devalue the worth of their service.

And an ISP shouldn't allow illegal operations to take place over their service.
--
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Skeedatl
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