Maine PUC Staff Urges Fairpoint Deal Rejection Potential harm outweigh potential benefits... Tipped by swintec 
A new report by the advisory staff of the Maine Public Utilities Commission is recommending that the commission reject the $2.7 billion sale of Verizon's telephone network to FairPoint Communications. According to the report, the deal "subjects both ratepayers and shareholders to substantial risks and harms that are not outweighed by any of the potential benefits of the transaction." According to the Portland Press Herald, the PUC can still ignore staff recommendations and approve the deal, but such reports are generally very influential. Fairpoint is hoping for regulatory approval to acquire Verizon's Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire DSL and landline networks. Verizon believes these largely rural states are not profitable, and has engineered a deal to offload them that uses fancy financial footwork to obliterate $1.7 billion in telco debt, while giving them a $600 million tax writeoff. Regulators believe that Fairpoint however will struggle under the new debt load, and will be unable to carry through with the litany of promises the company is making. The company continues to promise faster speeds, greater deployment, improved service and no change in union contracts.
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 | | Please reject this deal This deal is terrible for all concerned, except the corporate suits. It would be wonderful if the PUC actually did its job and protect the public interest in this matter. I predict that even though all signs say this deal is bad, it still goes through because money talks. | |
| Nuts65
join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH | Pass or Fail I wonder how long before they announce the sale of their telephone systems in other states they deem unprofitable. Will the PUC's blockage of this deal stop them from trying in other states. | |
|  | droobiePremium
join:2007-10-09
Bangor, ME | Re: Pass or Fail I believe if one of the three states (ME NH VT) goes against Fairpoint's plan, the whole deal for the tri-state market dies.
That wouldn't stop everywhere, but it is quite a hurdle in this region when all 3 states have misgivings in some form or another. | |
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 xdeadhead220, 221, Whatever It Takes.Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA | hawaii they already sold hawaii. like 2 years ago. | |
| | Nuts65
join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH | Re: hawaii who bought them | |
| | | | | Re: hawaii The carlyle group... otherwise known as the group that has no idea what they are doing | |
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| | Report cautions against "Anybody But Verizon" mentality Significantly, the report cautioned “the Commission that it should not let its displeasure with Verizon’s lack of cooperation and investment in Maine over the past five years influence the Commission’s decision. The Commission should not succumb to the “anybody but Verizon” mentality that even Verizon, itself, seems to be encouraging. The Commission must make its decision based upon the evidence, or lack thereof, in the record of this proceeding.”
More information about why citizens are mobilizing to stop the Verizon sale to FairPoint is at: www.stopthesalenow.org and www.no-deal.org. For information about ending the digital divide visit: www.speedmatters.org. | |
|  wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Verizon should teach them a lesson In all honesty I am sick of hearing about this. Verizon should take note of what ATT did to the ungrateful cities in Illinois and simply walk away! Verizon has very clearly said they dont want to spend additional capital to upgrade this service area. Fairpoint has made it very clear that they do. The citizens and communities of this geographic area are the ones who will lose out if the sale doesnt go through, and they will have nobody to blame other than their local government. It always boggles my mind when small, backwards local governments refuse to let projects proceed that will benefit the local taxpayers!!
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| | droobiePremium
join:2007-10-09
Bangor, ME | Re: Verizon should teach them a lesson Obviously you've never been in one of the existing Fairpoint markets or you'd discover that Fairpoint owns virtually none of its DSL infrastructure and is incapable (and often unwilling) to improve their services. These current markets I speak of are also covered with rural telecom exemptions, which means they're not required to allow competition on their lines. People pay 80$ a month for 1.5/1.0 DSL service, which is often riddled with disconnects and hardly any support.
I don't see where Fairpoint has earned support in this idea that they are capable to replace a much better funded company like Verizon. They have done nothing but create TV ads and promises that are not backed by how they currently and previously have done business. If someone were famous for lying, misleading, and not providing a quality, would YOU suddenly decide to trust them? After all, the only thing with more reach than phone on the poles here is electric service.
Also, if you recall, AT&T has many rural southern markets they DO keep and maintain, especially in the state of Oklahoma alone. In these markets they keep and offer at least 3M/768 service and are comparable to telco services offered in their other markets. However, like here in Maine, the telco often receives subsidies and grants to help offset extra costs and to help them evolve broadband services. As a matter of fact, the State of Maine foolishly handed Verizon 12 million dollars in a back door deal to add DSL for a small group of potential customers. That was money that COULD'VE gone to the ConnectME program to help wireless ISPs evolve service to those areas.
There is NOTHING guaranteeing that Fairpoint would not thrust this horrible DSL offering onto ALL of their service area either, including kicking third-party DSL carriers out of the central offices. Seeing as my DSL carrier is light-years beyond anything Verizon or Fairpoint offer currently, that would be a large step backwards and virtually destroy at least one local ISP in this state.
I'm tired of these people in major metros that seem to think they understand rural telecom. | |
| | | Reviews:
 ·Great Works Inte..
| Re: Verizon should teach them a lesson Maybe Fairpoint would have a stroke of genius and simply allow GWI to run their DSL infrastructure here in Maine and NH. 
I was formerly ambivalent about the Fairpoint purchase, but in recent months I've become concerned about what would happen to our beloved GWI under Fairpoint. I guess I'd rather just stick with the known evil (Verizon) at this point. The excessively warm and fuzzy TV ads that Fairpoint is airing are certainly not helping their case any. | |
| | | | droobiePremium
join:2007-10-09
Bangor, ME | Re: Verizon should teach them a lesson Actually, I'd like that a fair deal. GWI has a big fiber network and already offers ADSL2+ and voice services in some of the least populated areas, including in Aroostook county.
Statistically Fletcher (CEO of GWI) will go to the state house and kick some butt if he thinks he's being messed with. I suspect if that's the case with the Fairpoint deal, he'll be back there if he hasn't been already.
Knowing that, I'm only somewhat concerned. It seems the PUC would be livid and come to GWI's defense. | |
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| | | Wifi,
You're sick of hearing about it and you live in NY? Try living in the states that Fairpoint promises the world to.
You are so incredibly misinformed that its laughable. Do you think a multibillion dollar international company is going to throw a fit and take their toys home if the sale is not approved?
Check the history of Verizon in your own state. Verizon wanted to sell its upstate NY properties because they were "too rural". The idea of a sale fell through and now many of those same areas that were considered too rural have FiOS.
And Fairpoint has NOT made it clear what they plan to do. If you've read through thousands of pages of PUC, SEC, and independant testimony like I have then you know that Fairpoint has promised to THINK about alot of things.. Their promises are vague and over-reaching in many circumstances, but the lambs like you that just read the headlines and don't bother to read the details think we're all being a bunch of idiots to oppose the sale.
Educate yourself with Facts before you throw your loose opinions around.
For instance: how will our silly little local government and taxpayers benefit if there is a net loss of 1000 jobs over the next 4 years? How will we all benefit if the technology that is offered only 10-50 short miles from Boston is woefully inadequate? How do we benefit if the company (fairpoint) that takes over takes 75-80% of the profits that they make from sales and sent it to investors instead of reinvesting it in the network?
»www.verizonvsfairpoint.com/index.php | |
| | | | | Re: Verizon should teach them a lesson NHpub, speaking of 'facts' I'd suggest you take an economics course. There is no such thing as a free lunch. If Verizon is forced to retain the property, the underlying economics driving the transaction don't disappear. It sounds like the primary concern is service quality, ie, if the transaction proceeds, then consumers may receive lower SQ b/c fairpoint won't invest in the network. If the risk of that outcome is unacceptable, then impose more stringent SQ regulations on whomever owns the property. Restricting the transfer of ownership of the property doesn't seem like an effective means of addressing the problem. | |
| | | | | | Re: Verizon should teach them a lesson Burn,
Economics are for losers. Numbers can be manipulated a thousand different ways to convince anyone of anything. Which is why Fairpoint can come up with numbers that work, yet EVERYONE else comes up with numbers that don't. I'm personally going with everyone else on this one.
Restricting the sale is The exact thing that is needed. Verizon has promised for years to fix existing problems. They got the PUC's in all three states to suspend taxes on telephone poles for the sole reason of putting that money back into fixing the network. They did not, so the PUC's can and will hold them very responsible for that and will make them fix those problems..
Since I know that I'm right I will accept your apology right now. No need to say sorry. | |
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| | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | said by NHpublius:Wifi, You're sick of hearing about it and you live in NY? Try living in the states that Fairpoint promises the world to. You are so incredibly misinformed that its laughable. Do you think a multibillion dollar international company is going to throw a fit and take their toys home if the sale is not approved? You are calling me misinformed? Lets set the record straight then. To begin, YES I think a multibillion dollar international company will "throw a fit and take their toys home" if this sale isnt approved. As I clearly stated in my original reply, that is exactly what ATT did in Illinois!
said by NHpublius:And Fairpoint has NOT made it clear what they plan to do. If you've read through thousands of pages of PUC, SEC, and independant testimony like I have then you know that Fairpoint has promised to THINK about alot of things.. Their promises are vague and over-reaching in many circumstances, but the lambs like you that just read the headlines and don't bother to read the details think we're all being a bunch of idiots to oppose the sale. Incorrect. Fairpoint is obligated to continue to roll out DSL under the terms of this deal. No, they are not required to roll out FIOS (which is what you are likely getting at), and you are just being greedy. I live in the middle of New York City, and I cant get FIOS so get over yourself.
said by NHpublius:Educate yourself with Facts before you throw your loose opinions around. For instance: how will our silly little local government and taxpayers benefit if there is a net loss of 1000 jobs over the next 4 years? What?? I am not sure how you figure jobs will be lost. If nothing else, this will create jobs that are currently at Verizon corporate. All positions (related to that geographic area) that are currently being held by Verizon employees in other areas of the country will now be local jobs!
said by NHpublius:How do we benefit if the company (fairpoint) that takes over takes 75-80% of the profits that they make from sales and sent it to investors instead of reinvesting it in the network? That doesnt even make sense. Why would Fairpoint give money to investors?? Investors by definition give money TO companies. The bottom line is that people on this site constantly complain about the LEC and how terrible it is. You currently live in an area that the LEC has publicly said they will no longer upgrade. A smaller, local company comes along and actually WANTS to serve your area and you have an issue with it. You cant have it both ways my friend, and your hoping that if Verizon stays you will miraculously get FIOS is misguided.
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время индейки! | |
| | | | | | this is going to be fun.... wifi,
You point out AT&T, I point out Verizon in NY. Since we're talking about Verizon and not AT&T I would think I win that argument. And since you brought up AT&T please explain exactly what happened with that.
I said nothing about Fairpoint rolling out FiOS. They can't its a copyrighted technology that Verizon owns. Fairpoint has no equivalent to offer to their customers. As far as being obligated to roll out DSL you are again wrong. As it stands right now, they can do whatever the hell they want.
You admitting you don't know how jobs will be lost shows just how out of touch you are with this issue. By Fairpoints own admission, they expect a minimum 4-5% job loss every year. If you do the math that obliterates the 675 new jobs that they want to bring within 4 years. I'm not going to explain it all to you, do your own research. ( »verizonvsfairpoint.com/index.php?topic=234.0 )
Also, FiOS related jobs just happen to create about 300-400 more jobs per state that DSL does. So effectively jobs will be LOST by having Verizon leave in place of having Fairpoint fill in their place.
Again, its a FACT that Fairpoint takes 70-80% of their profits and give them back to investors in the form of dividends (you've heard of dividends, right?) In fact, for 4 out of the past 5 years Fairpoint has had to borrow money to pay out there industry leading dividend.. instead of saving money by not paying it out... Both you and Mr. accountant can talk to each other and maybe he can explain it to you.
You mistake Fairpoint wanting to come to New England as them trying to help us all out. They only want to come here to suck the life out of copper landlines for the next 5-8 years and then get the hell out... Their own business models show that they will be deeper and deeper in debt as every year passes. Copper is a dying business that has a 4-6% line loss rate every year. You cannot make that work. It cannot be made into a profitable business. Fairpoint has only succeded because they have bought small, rural phone companies with no competition. Almost 70% of their footprint has no competition from phone, cable, and internet. Moving into all of New England will erase that advantage and bring them into unchartered waters where they will be ruined by comcast.
Again, educate yourself. You know nothing | |
| | | | | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: this is going to be fun.... said by publius :
wifi,
You point out AT&T, I point out Verizon in NY. Since we're talking about Verizon and not AT&T I would think I win that argument. And since you brought up AT&T please explain exactly what happened with that.
»Naperville, Illinois Can't Make Jump to Lightspeed
I think we are done here, as you clearly dont have a grasp of economics OR business.
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время индейки! | |
| | | | | | | | Re: this is going to be fun.... Actually, the whole point is that FAIRPOINT has no idea about economics, as evidenced by their BB (junk) stock status and insanely high levels of debt.
Clearly, you have just been Pwned. | |
| | | | | | | | You do know thats Illinois you're talking about right? Who cares about Illinois?
Its NH that's clearly the most important state in the union.
I'm sorry I don't have a PHd in Economics or I've never cared about business, but what I do know is how to spot a bad deal. I know when a company is clearly trying to screw the consumer. Fairpoint is that company.
Thanks for replying to me though. And remember, I accept your apology so its okay to walk away from this and keep your head up high.. | |
| | | | | | | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: this is going to be fun.... said by publius :
You do know thats Illinois you're talking about right? Who cares about Illinois?
Its NH that's clearly the most important state in the union.
I would bet the people of Illinois would agrue that their situation is JUST as important as yours. Again, being selfish wont help your argument.
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: this is going to be fun.... I told you that you were going to write again.
I would bet that the 2.3 million people in New England that won't get anything but DSL beat out the few people in East buttmunch Illinois that won't get AT&T Uverse....
I'm not selfish, I'm just right...
p.s. You didn't apologize yet. | |
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| | | | | | | Hold the phone!!!
I just saw on your profile, "In need of Garbage pail kids, 1st series".
You've got to be kidding, right!
You're trying to school me on Fairpoint economics and you collect Garbage pail kids? | |
| | | | | | | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: this is going to be fun.... said by Publius :
Hold the phone!!!
I just saw on your profile, "In need of Garbage pail kids, 1st series".
You've got to be kidding, right!
You're trying to school me on Fairpoint economics and you collect Garbage pail kids?
This really is my last reply, but I just couldnt pass this one up. You just proved that I DID school you in economics with that comment. While I dont collect Garbage Pail Kids (nor have I owned any in over 20 years), the price of the first series has skyrocketed and I am interested in making a profit by purchasing and selling them. You see, economics happens in everyday life if you just look around for a minute. As you have clearly pointed out, your comments and thought process are geared ONLY around the prospect of YOU getting FIOS. You have no grasp of economics, business, or an understanding of how the job market works. I see you are posting from a college, and I suggest that instead of wasting your time on these forums you get back to your studies. With hope, even you can become a productive, informed member of society.
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| | | | | | | | | | wifi is funny it's not your last reply. It's going to annoy you that I continue to prove you wrong.
There is nothing that I said, or you did to prove that you schooled me. I hear that old barbie dolls are worth more too, you going to collect them?
As for me getting FiOS, I know that in the area that I live I would probably be the last person in the state to get FiOS. Its not about me getting FiOS you idiot, its about about NH getting the technology that it deserves and not getting bent over by Fairpoint.
Being the economic hero that you are you MUST be able to see the incongruities and blatant attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of everyone that Fairpoint does on a daily basis.
I hope that someday you are able to pull your head out of your a** and see the real world around you, and understand that its not all about numbers. That lives and futures can be affected by number crunchers like yourself thinking that they know what's best for everyone.
I take back one of things I said in my last post. I want you to apologize to me now. Its obvious you're an angry little boy that is looking for validation by making yourself feel superior to others. Remember, I am clearly more intelligent than you and I believe there is a good chance your mother still tucks you in at night.. | |
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| | | | | | | Wifi,
I just did some more research on that At&T thing... You're talking about ONE town that didn't get the upgrade it wanted. I'm talking about three states!!
You do know that three is more than one right? And states are bigger than towns?
You're right, I think we are done, because you clearly don't have an grasp of this deal or its ramifications.
Why don't you stick to boards that speak to your knowledge base: something like Uselessinformation.com or something similar. | |
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| | fiber So will all the existing fios or shall i say fiber customers in new england still keep it? Fiber TV/Internet/Phone. Or will Fairpoint re-wire them back to copper? Will Fairpoint support the existing fios tv business?
When Verizon installed fios for me, they cut down all the copper lines. | |
| | | | Re: fiber moose
FiOS is a verizon copyrighted product. Fairpoint cannot offer it. Fairpoint has said they will offer a similar fiber product, but hasn't produced it yet. You will not have a television offering. | |
| | | | | Re: fiber So will Verizon force everyone to give back the Verizon DVR boxes for the televisions? And people will have to order comcast again? | |
| | | droobiePremium
join:2007-10-09
Bangor, ME | This is news to me. I'm under the impression that Verizon will continue to offer FIOS (as FIOS) in these markets. It's just unlikely there will be any huge expansion.
As far as I know - Verizon has deployed FIOS in Southern CA markets that are AT&T copper markets. I don't think there's anything preventing them from doing this in Southern NH and the tip of ME.
By the time Fairpoint dreams up their own fiber platform, Oxford Networks will have had Bangor ME covered and started selling to residential (their current focus is their business customers). Considering how badly Fairpoint runs DSL, the concept is amusing anyway. I'm sure they'd find some way to have random disconnects over fiber. | |
| | | | | | Re: fiber droobie,
It is written specifically in the TSA between Verizon and Fairpoint that Verizon will no longer offer FiOS in Northern New England (with the exception of one contract they have with St Josephs hospital in Nashua, NH)
The only way that Verizon would be able to offer FiOS in those markets again is to come in as a CLEC, install their own FiOS equipment and run their own fiber. The FCC had determined that the phone company has to share copper with CLECs but they do not have to share Fiber with anyone.
Fairpoint would be catastrophically stupid to let Verizon continue to offer FiOS on their existing equipment. (Which on certain levels would not surprise me in the least). But honestly, if Fairpoint were to do that they would effectively take away a huge portion of high paying customers that would not be going anywhere else for internet or tv service. | |
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| droobiePremium
join:2007-10-09
Bangor, ME | Verizon is installing FIOS in markets where there is another copper carrier. I think I see the logic in this. Verizon comes in with fiber, converts the customers out and kills the copper business. MOST of the time it's their copper, but not always. Oh the catch, of course, is there will probably be a rate hike after they kill the copper. Since they're not required to 'open' the fiber network, your choice on the fiber will be Verizon or Verizon. It'll kill 3rd party DSL carriers. Nice game eh?
Rest assured - They're not going to remove the fiber from the poles, since they just deployed there and the writing on the wall about their copper intentions were established long before they deployed. They want FIOS customers in dense urban markets and they want to dump the copper network (especially in rural areas) on someone else, in this case Fairpoint.
Basically Verizon will compete with Fairpoint in Southern NH and the tip of Southern ME. Heck, they might deploy more in those areas too, I don't think they're restricted from it. They just made it clear that FIOS is the future, copper is evil (because of openness, amongst other reasons), and they want to get rid of copper. | |
| | | | | Re: fiber Again, I say that Verizon does not own the fiber if the deal goes through. So they CANT compete in southern NH and Maine because they have no network to compete on.
One of the main reasons it has taken so long to deploy FiOS is because it is a fairly expensive option to hang fiber everywhere you want it to go.
Verizon would have to come into those markets virtually empty handed, and have to build the networks from the ground up again (if they plan to use fiber) otherwise they can use the copper all they want. | |
| | | | droobiePremium
join:2007-10-09
Bangor, ME | Re: fiber Thanks for clarifying that. I guess that means that there's going to be a lot of dark fiber on the poles then. There's no way that Fairpoint has the money or resources to establish TV deals, etc. and basically reinvent the footwork Verizon has done already. | |
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