 nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD | the technology that won't die looks like we will have BPL to beat up on for a long time to come. Too bad it never seems to get anywhere. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: the technology that won't die said by nasadude  :looks like we will have BPL to beat up on for a long time to come. Too bad it never seems to get anywhere. You know people had been working on radio since the 1880s didn't really take off until the 1920's. People worked on TV as far back as the early 1920's first TV shows didn't air until 1948. | |
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| | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: the technology that won't die said by BF69 :You know people had been working on radio since the 1880s didn't really take off until the 1920's. People worked on TV as far back as the early 1920's first TV shows didn't air until 1948. BPL is already in production. They deployed their technology with the idea they would either fix problems on the fly or try and ignore them. | |
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dispatcher21
join:2004-01-22
united state | Why not use PL tones? Why cant the radio guys just use PL tones to filter out the interference? | |
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UHF
All static, all day, Forever
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-24
clubs: | Re: Why not use PL tones? How does adding a PL tone make the interference go away? It doesn't. | |
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AmnChode
Premium
join:2001-03-27
San Antonio, TX
| Re: Why not use PL tones? Exactly...PL tones/CTCSS doesn't filter interference. They filter out other traffic on the same channel. However, with the interference being caused, neither parties would be able to make contact (or at least be hindered in contact), thus making CTCSS null and void...
ie, CTCSS does not alleviate RF interference | |
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TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL
| said by dispatcher21 :Why cant the radio guys just use PL tones to filter out the interference? For fear of massive flame-age, you have a point. Maybe the Ham guys need to upgrade their methods if this is such an issue.
Not that I don't respect this activity, I think you guys are great.  | |
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| | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Why not use PL tones? said by TechieZero :said by dispatcher21 :Why cant the radio guys just use PL tones to filter out the interference? For fear of massive flame-age, you have a point. Maybe the Ham guys need to upgrade their methods if this is such an issue. Not that I don't respect this activity, I think you guys are great. No, he doesn't have a point as both of you don't know how PL tones work. All PL tones do is open the squelch of a receiver when it receives the right sub-audible tone. This is useful ONLY when multiple people are using the same frequency or sporadic interference.
BPL interference is trying to listen to a regular conversation next to a car running with no muffler.
Try again. | |
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dispatcher21
join:2004-01-22
united state
1 edit | Re: Why not use PL tones? I thought that what the problem was, sporadic interference? I did not know the interference was constant to the point of them not being able to communicate with their equipment. And yes, I know how PL tones work, we use them on our radios here and they filter out quite a bit of interfernece we get on our fire channel. With the PL tones off, we get a constant buzz and warble, we turn the PL tones on, the noise is completely gone. Whats causing the noise? We guess that its CSEPP across the river but the PL tones solve the problem for now till we can figure it out completely. | |
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tenbase
join:2000-07-19
Alexandria, VA
| Re: Why not use PL tones? HF communications are very different from typical VHF/UHF communications. Squelch is rarely used (and is not even included as a feature in many HF transceivers), as many of the signals are very weak and close to the noise floor.
PL/DCS is really only useful for local VHF/UHF communications where relative signal strength is high and there is no need to pick faint signals out of the muck.
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I would kill everyone on this forum for a drop of sweet beer.. | |
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AmnChode
Premium
join:2001-03-27
San Antonio, TX
| All the PL Tone does is tell the radio to "un-mute" when the tone is, for lack of better words, heard. Otherwise, the freq stays squelched. This works great if everyone uses the same freq, the same tone, and you can guarantee that you are in range of the contact without interference being an issue. It also keeps the radio nice and quiet when not being used.
However, when we are talking long distance contacts, which HAMs are more likely to deal with, you can't hear the contact or the tone over the interference, thus nullifying CTCSS tones. This is neglecting the fact that they would be searching for unknown contacts, to begin with. As such, they would not be squelching the radio purposely.
However, I believe what goes to the heart of the issue is that HAMs have to operate within specific guidelines and part of those guidelines is that they do not interfere with others traffic. Yet, at the same time, the FCC was allowing BPL to interfere with theirs, thus narrowing their radio spectrum even further. | |
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| | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by dispatcher21 :I thought that what the problem was, sporadic interference? I did not know the interference was constant to the point of them not being able to communicate with their equipment. And yes, I know how PL tones work, we use them on our radios here and they filter out quite a bit of interference we get on our fire channel. With the PL tones off, we get a constant buzz and warble, we turn the PL tones on, the noise is completely gone. Whats causing the noise? We guess that its CSEPP across the river but the PL tones solve the problem for now till we can figure it out completely. The interference of BPL is similar to what you are describing with CSEPP. Not only is it constant but much stronger and over a much greater frequency range.
As for the noise problem you are having, there are several possible reasons; bad transmitter, signals mixing, harmonics, etc. | |
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| | | | MZR
join:2006-08-12
TX
| said by dispatcher21 :Whats causing the noise? We guess that its CSEPP across the river but the PL tones solve the problem for now till we can figure it out completely. Pager systems.... | |
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TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL
| said by moonpuppy :No, he doesn't have a point as both of you don't know how PL tones work. All PL tones do is open the squelch of a receiver when it receives the right sub-audible tone. This is useful ONLY when multiple people are using the same frequency or sporadic interference. BPL interference is trying to listen to a regular conversation next to a car running with no muffler. Try again. I wasn't claiming I know how "PL tones" work and my remark was a general one; as in Ham operators might have to step up to the challenges some way some how. | |
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AmnChode
Premium
join:2001-03-27
San Antonio, TX | Re: Why not use PL tones? They are. They are trying to stop the interference. | |
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TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL |  It's All Good
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BPLSUCKS
join:2006-04-26
Grand Ledge, MI
| Use newer systems...means no problem There are several BPL systems available that do not cause any...ANY interference. I live in a BPL test town and the interference generated on the lower frequencies is horrible. I am a shortwave junkie and listen to world news over shortwave as often as I can but the system in my town has the HF band saturated to the point no SW and no HAM communications. Its a good idea in theory and with the right equipment won't interfere but I am not counting on DirectTV to go with that system because it costs a little more then the other systems that don't interfere. | |
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| PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| Re: Use newer systems...means no problem said by BPLSUCKS :I am a shortwave junkie and listen to world news over shortwave as often as I can but the system in my town has the HF band saturated to the point no SW and no HAM communications. Have you complained to the FCC? | |
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| | BPLSUCKS
join:2006-04-26
Grand Ledge, MI | Re: Use newer systems...means no problem Of course. I sent them emails and letters containing recordings of the static with an excel document showing the level of interference. Nothing is being done about it. They replied saying they will investigate. | |
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AmnChode
Premium
join:2001-03-27
San Antonio, TX | Re: Use newer systems...means no problem Sounds like the normal response, then. That is what they have been saying for the last few years when the ARRL brought it up. At the same time, they keep pushing BPL. | |
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| | | W1RFI
join:2003-05-12
Burlington, CT | Contact me about the interference.
Ed Hare, W1RFI@arrl.org
Tel: 860-594-0318
Grand Ledge went through some gyrations on vendors, but it looks like they may settle out on Corinex.
Ed | |
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Making BPL Play Nice