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Malls Start Tracking Cell User Locations
As The Cash Cow Location Data Rush Continues
We've previously noted that wireless companies are only just starting to truly cash in on tracking user cell phone activity, with user location data valuable to everyone from marketers to civil engineers (though mostly just marketers). CNN notes that two malls, Promenade Temecula in southern California and Short Pump Town Center in Richmond, will be joining the fun this weekend, tracking user location throughout the malls using cell phones. The system works using antennas and hardware by FootPath Technology, which assigns each phone a unique identification number and tracks them throughout the stores. The companies insist the data is anonymous -- or as anonymous as data tracking location can be. "Consumers can opt out by turning off their phones," helpfully claims CNN.
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elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA

elray

Member

Consumers can also opt out

By not shopping at locations that use FootPath.
The Antihero
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA

The Antihero

Member

Re: Consumers can also opt out

My thoughts exactly. Is there list somewhere of which malls that use this, so I know to avoid them?

Cjaiceman
MVM
join:2004-10-12
Castle Rock, WA

Cjaiceman to elray

MVM

to elray
Note to self, do not go to shopping malls... ever...

Thought to self... wait, I don't... online is much easier...
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: Consumers can also opt out

said by Cjaiceman:

online is much easier

For tracking usage patterns?
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt

Member

I wonder when they will start giving customers a procto?

Next thing you know they will want to look up your ass to see if you have your shit together, before admitting you.
borka
join:2003-04-01
Ponte Vedra, FL

borka

Member

turning off their what???

WTF is this? "Consumers can opt out by turning off their phones,"

are they serious???

its like saying don't buy a cell phone if you don't want to be tracked!

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: turning off their what???

said by borka:

WTF is this? "Consumers can opt out by turning off their phones,"

are they serious???

its like saying don't buy a cell phone if you don't want to be tracked!

Yes, who turns off their cellphones when they are out and moving around when away from home. That is the main purpose of a cellphone - to be reachable when not at home. Turning off your phone is a joke of an opt-out choice.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK

Premium Member

Re: turning off their what???

You can Opt-Out of living in the USA....

(That is sarcasm.)

Seriously, this type of activity should be 100% opt in and very explicitly so, not opt in as "you used this or installed that or bought this so you are agreeing to be opted in" kind of opt in.

pnon1IS
@cox.net

pnon1IS to FFH5

Anon

to FFH5
you can opt-out by turning your ass around, and leaving, and never coming back.
b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
united state

b10010011 to borka

Member

to borka
said by borka:

WTF is this? "Consumers can opt out by turning off their phones,"

are they serious???

its like saying don't buy a cell phone if you don't want to be tracked!

Lets see before this cellular phones have been tracked for years by tower triangulation, then by the GPS that is now in every cell phone. With the advent of smartphones with WiFi tracking by hotspot has become simple and common.

SO yes seriously, if you don't want to be tracked don't buy a cellular phone.

joako
Premium Member
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null

joako

Premium Member

How does this work

I read on the FootPath website they place receivers that can detect the mobile phones. If they are using the GSM signal, how can they uniquely identify phones without decrypting the signal?

poed
@178.32.95.x

poed

Anon

Re: How does this work

This page states it uses the TMSI (which is sent unencrypted): Path Intelligence FootPath(tm) mobile phone tracking - a few more details

A web search also reveals some speculation that it sniffs Bluetooth, and tracks based on a phone's MAC address.

jap
Premium Member
join:2003-08-10
038xx

jap

Premium Member

how tracked?

"Consumers can opt out by turning off their phones," helpfully claims CNN."
That one made me laugh out loud. It's such a sharp dismissal for a PR person to utter. I'd love to hear the inflection - clueless vs. acerbic vs. apologetically "they made me say it" etc..

Sooooo, when do (or did) law enforcement, campaign rally organizers, airports, the border patrol, etc.etc.etc. start deploying these thingies?

What do phones emit that allows uniq ID of each handset? I'm protocol and RF ignorant in this department. Can such IDs persist over time? Footpath's tech description page indicates the tracking computations occur on their central servers.

DaveDude
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey

1 edit

DaveDude

Member

We should just go to V secret

Every time you see footpath, just go to Victoria's secret, make the marketers go crazy.
millerja01a
join:2005-10-03
Durham, NC

millerja01a

Member

Hmmm... Where's that Flight Mode button?

Ahh...Here it is!!!

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

Malls?

People still shop at those?
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

Re: Malls?

Only when I wanted an Apple Laptop and going to Delaware meant I paid less than getting it shipped to NJ.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

Re: Malls?

said by Kearnstd:

Only when I wanted an Apple Laptop and going to Delaware meant I paid less than getting it shipped to NJ.

Not to sound too tinfoilish but I wonder how interested the State of New Jersey would be in that location information.

mod_wastrel
anonome
join:2008-03-28

mod_wastrel to pnh102

Member

to pnh102
All the time--that's where the stores are (and lots of parking). Most of them are "upscale" places (at least, Short Pump is). Anyway, it is private property, so they can track anything they want to.

DummyDoob
@sbcglobal.net

DummyDoob

Anon

Re: Malls?

said by mod_wastrel:

All the time--that's where the stores are (and lots of parking). Most of them are "upscale" places (at least, Short Pump is). Anyway, it is private property, so they can track anything they want to.

This is like an apartment owner saying "Hey, its my property. If you don't want my camera in your bathroom ...leave." or "I can come into your apartment anytime I want, its my property". Many times privacy trumps private property rights.

mod_wastrel
anonome
join:2008-03-28

mod_wastrel

Member

Re: Malls?

That might be the worst--and most inaccurate--analogy I've ever heard of.

DummyDoob
@sbcglobal.net

DummyDoob

Anon

Re: Malls?

said by mod_wastrel:

That might be the worst--and most inaccurate--analogy I've ever heard of.

Explain.

Andrew
@charter.com

Andrew

Anon

licensed or WiFi?

So wait, are these things listening to licensed bands that the carriers use or are they on WiFi? Because if they're using the cellular bands then wouldn't they have to get the OK by the FCC and by the carriers that own the bands? Or is that just to broadcast on?

mist66888888
@64.32.32.x

mist66888888

Anon

Re: licensed or WiFi?

Listening only for non licensed
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA to Andrew

Premium Member

to Andrew
I'm really wondering that. What it sounds like to me is they are providing some sort of DAS for the carriers, and that is tracking location, but it's really hard to tell. I doubt that someone can just track what is on licensed spectrum, although if it was purely listening, and not transmitting, then maybe it's legal...

I think it's a cool idea. If you have a cell phone, you have to assume you are being tracked. If you have Facebook, you have to assume all info you put on it is public. If you don't want to be tracked, turn off your cell phone. If you don't want information to be public, don't paste it on Facebook.
40757180 (banned)
join:2009-11-01

40757180 (banned)

Member

Time to turn of phone

I already keep my phone off all the time unless I need to make a phone call, so for me it will not change anything.

compuguybna
join:2009-06-17
Nashville, TN

compuguybna

Member

Re: Time to turn of phone

Track on . . . Is this supposed to make me buy more or something??????

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

Anonymous_ to 40757180

Premium Member

to 40757180
said by 40757180:

I already keep my phone off all the time unless I need to make a phone call, so for me it will not change anything.

For true tracking free you should pull the battery just in case

DummyDoob
@sbcglobal.net

DummyDoob to 40757180

Anon

to 40757180
It's going to suck if you get robbed in the parking lot and have to wait for the phone to boot up before being able to call the police.

Retired6
Premium Member
join:2002-11-09
Earth

Retired6

Premium Member

Re: Time to turn of phone

said by DummyDoob :

It's going to suck if you get robbed in the parking lot and have to wait for the phone to boot up before being able to call the police.

Thats why you carry a handgun.

DummyDoob
@sbcglobal.net

DummyDoob

Anon

Re: Time to turn of phone

said by Retired6:

said by DummyDoob :

It's going to suck if you get robbed in the parking lot and have to wait for the phone to boot up before being able to call the police.

Thats why you carry a handgun.

...Yeah, carrying around a loaded handgun without a CCW permit (which is very hard to get in states like California) can get you thrown in prison and not all states or mall management are opencarry friendly.

burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium Member
join:2002-06-05
Iowa

burner50 to 40757180

Premium Member

to 40757180
said by 40757180:

I already keep my phone off all the time unless I need to make a phone call, so for me it will not change anything.

Not an option for me.

••••••••••••

CodeeCB
Premium Member
join:2001-10-01
Minneapolis, MN

CodeeCB

Premium Member

I don't get it...

I don't get it? What's the big deal?? Who cares if they know where I go? Surely not me! They could do the same thing with security cameras and they do in casinos. Too many people get worked up over unimportant things.

••••••
mmay149q
Premium Member
join:2009-03-05
Dallas, TX

mmay149q

Premium Member

You know...

Unless people start standing up to this, you're going to start actually getting "Notifications" on your phone or etc because they'll use the Unique ID to identify what store you're in, and then make a suggestion via smart sync notifications that you should go to this other store and find something similar, this is the worst thing I've ever heard of, it's already bad enough I have to get bombarded with commercials when watching TV, or when I watch a BluRay/DVD, but now I have to get spammed with them on my cell phone while I'm in a mall?!?!?!?!

Really, this is just horrible, I can't believe that more people aren't outraged by this, YES it can be convenient to to know that while you're in the shoe store the store next door can provide you with shoe cleaner, or something else to that nature, but I'm sick and tired of everywhere I go I'm being bombarded with advertisements or commercials, I find it totally offensive......

Certain Android app's already spam you with notifications for updates of their games or whatever, I just can't see how people are ok with this, if people don't start fighting it then in the next 10 years your cell phone is going to be a walking commercial/ad center...

Matt
dipweed23
join:2009-07-21
Ypsilanti, MI

dipweed23

Member

Re: You know...

said by mmay149q:

Unless people start standing up to this, you're going to start actually getting "Notifications" on your phone or etc because they'll use the Unique ID to identify what store you're in, and then make a suggestion via smart sync notifications that you should go to this other store and find something similar, this is the worst thing I've ever heard of, it's already bad enough I have to get bombarded with commercials when watching TV, or when I watch a BluRay/DVD, but now I have to get spammed with them on my cell phone while I'm in a mall?!?!?!?!

Matt

I was at the mall the other day because I had to get a replacement for a wrench. It had been years since I was in that sears and of course I ended up parking by the doors that leads to the ladies underwear section...
If that isn't embarrassing enough, imagine getting bombarded with ads for VS, and other lingerie stores for WEEKS simply because you picked the wrong set of doors to walk into at the mall.
For the mean time they say it's all done on unlicensed RF, so keeping wifi and BT turned off in the mall could possibly prevent the tracking.

benecewicz
Premium Member
join:2005-04-08
Parkville, MD

benecewicz

Premium Member

Have some fun with it...

Wouldn't it be great to get a flash mob of cell phone carriers to spend all day going back and forth from the Victorias Secret then to the bathrooms all day long...

jseymour
join:2009-12-11
Waterford, MI

jseymour

Member

Re: Have some fun with it...

said by benecewicz:

Wouldn't it be great to get a flash mob of cell phone carriers to spend all day going back and forth from the Victorias Secret then to the bathrooms all day long...

Or... Keep your old phone. When going one of these malls, charge it up. Hook up with bunches of others to do this: Shop as you normally would but, whenever you see someone else that is participating, swap your old phone with them.



Jim

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
Asus RT-AX89

aaronwt

Premium Member

Why should I care..

if they track where I am in their malls? It won't cause anything detrimental to me. And it is their mall. If anyone doesn't like it either turn off the phone or don't shop there. I really see no problem with it.

It would be nice if this could be combined with cameras to catch more shoplifters. The people stealing merchandise raises the prices for everyone.

danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA

danclan

Member

Re: Why should I care..

said by aaronwt:

if they track where I am in their malls? It won't cause anything detrimental to me. And it is their mall. If anyone doesn't like it either turn off the phone or don't shop there. I really see no problem with it.

It would be nice if this could be combined with cameras to catch more shoplifters. The people stealing merchandise raises the prices for everyone.

Or better yet they stop and escort you off the premises because you just texted or emailed a negative review of a store, item or the mall.

Better yet why not just let the government do this so they can know what you do at all times.

This is a slippery slope the "private property" argument falls on its face given that the public perceives malls as public spaces with private merchants.

This technology won't stop one single shoplifter since all they have to do is turn off their phones.

Do you then arrest or ban people for NOT using their cell phones?

thedragonmas
Premium Member
join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
Netgear R6300 v2
ARRIS SB6180

thedragonmas

Premium Member

Re: Why should I care..

said by danclan:

Do you then arrest or ban people for NOT using their cell phones?

well they could always force every one to get neural implants directly connecting them to the internet for communications and... wait wait, that was done all ready in some tv show (cant remember if it was twilight zone or outerlimits)
JohnW3
join:2011-03-13

JohnW3

Member

tracking cell phones use in vehicles..

I am all for tracking stupid people who use their phones while DRIVING!! I think it's been done anyway like if u get smashed in a car wreck police have a way to pull up a ping to find out if the wreck was caused by the dumbass driver talk/txting on the phone. I plan to sue the shit out of someone if I am it this situation lol I NEVER use the phone while on the road this is what voicemail is for. Cell phones while driving = the new DUI.

•••

Norgohome
@142.20.20.x

Norgohome

Anon

GORN

Just get a portable cell phone jammer. $29 and you can ruin their day.