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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX | Is it fair to charge 62k when the actual costs for data, services, support etc, may only total tens of dollars not thousands. | |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | Re: idiots unfortunately yes. this isn't about that issue though. it's about a contract and the terms of the contract that spells out cost for international roaming, etc. | |
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dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
| Re: idiots I don't think so. If it were about that he would not have been able to get his bill reduced with an attourney. I think its more that if they intend to charge you an insane amount for a service then they really should not offer that service. The price he was charged is unreasonable and should never have been on the table. Even in a contract.
As you know, completely imbalanced contracts are illegal. At least in Michigan.
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dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16
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xpkranger
RIP Georgia Theater
Premium
join:2000-10-27
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| Re: idiots I'm not an attorney (but I do work for attorneys, [sarcasm]so naturally I'm an expert [/sarcasm]) so I can't speak to the legality of imbalanced contracts. Seems like a reasonable thing to do, but I would think that it would inherently leave itself open to too much interpretation.
I think it is very possible that the telco could have been in every manner well within it's rights to charge the giant bill, but when he statred squawking to the media and got an attorney who gets paid to squawk, the telco simply made a business decision not to press the issue. It would have cost them more in bad press than they could have possibly made from this one consumer. This way, the telco can look merciful and even magnanimous to this pitiful consumer.
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The early bird may get the worm, but the second rat gets the cheese. | |
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mark470
eh?
Premium
join:2002-01-09
Hooksett, NH | Re: While roaming, need a warning symbol the carriers are often unclear about the true cost of services
in the service agreement and advertisements or the sales reps have no clue.
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my heart belongs to a canadian, she is the best. | |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
1 edit | said by GOLFnSUN  :While roaming off of home territory, some cellphone users need a graphic symbol to remind them to check their phone's data plan. Maybe using these would let people know they are running up a big bill: ha. Why would carriers warn customers that they may be charged EXTRA for a service that is spelled out clearly in their agreement and terms of service? That would be corporate suicide.
That's like if AT&T Wireless would warn customers that they are going over their allocated minutes and will be charged a flat rate of xx per minute.
Neva gonna happen! | |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| Re: While roaming, need a warning symbol said by Rob : ha. Why would carriers warn customers that they may be charged EXTRA for a service that is spelled out clearly in their agreement and terms of service? That would be corporate suicide. No, that would be Good Credit Management | |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| Re: While roaming, need a warning symbol said by Steve :said by Rob : ha. Why would carriers warn customers that they may be charged EXTRA for a service that is spelled out clearly in their agreement and terms of service? That would be corporate suicide. Good Credit Management Oxymoron alert! | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | It would also be good customer service.
Oh wait. Maybe it really *is* an oxymoron! | |
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Premium
join:2005-02-11
Davie, FL
| Re: While roaming, need a warning symbol said by KrK :It would also be good customer service. Oh wait. Maybe it really *is* an oxymoron! Someone here is an oxymoron. Do you think any business's "customer service" is for the customer's benefit? A company only provides service to the extent that they see it creating more profit (as it should be). | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: While roaming, need a warning symbol It's for the business's benefit in an indirect way. It's to help customers so they will keep giving you money.
Unfortunately, some companies feel they shouldn't have to provide hardly any service (let alone customer service) and try to use legal trickery (for example, long term contracts) to keep people locked into paying.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| said by quatrix :Someone here is an oxymoron. Oh yes, I agree. A company only provides service to the extent that they see it creating more profit (as it should be). Yes indeed, and by using a good credit policy that prevents you from giving away free product because a customer doesn't know the billing rules, everybody wins.
That customer may not care for the surprisingly high data charges, but it's a lot better to get notification early than to just get a big surprise at the end of a month. If a customer normally does $50/month in usage, but this month they have $500 by the 4th day of the month, something is up.
Visa has credit limits, why not the phone company?
Steve
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Stephen J. Friedl | Unix Wizard | Microsoft Security MVP | Tustin, California USA | my web site | |
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bamboox
join:2000-12-15
Renton, WA
| Re: While roaming, need a warning symbol Visa may have credit limits, but increasingly many issuers now allow customers to go over the limit and then charge them a fee for exceeding their limit. They see this as yet another way to fleece the customer.
Most people who unwittingly rack up overage charges likely rack up small amounts they can afford to pay and are not going to go to the trouble of fighting it. The bean counters have probably figured out that they make more money absorbing am occasional loss than giving up revenue from the thousands of customers that go over the limit just a little. | |
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C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Davenport, FL
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Except it never really is clearly spelled out in the agreements you get, unless you can somehow read 2pt monospace type written on a grain of rice as "clear".
That being said, I agree that providers would never do such a thing without the contract being modified to support such a thing; and good luck getting any such modification past the suits. | |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| said by GOLFnSUN :And the lawyer had a somewhat good idea, but in this particular case it would have failed anyway: » www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.···ll.phtmlShe said: "…service providers also have a responsibility. It would be better if subscribers were given a monthly maximum spend so they could be notified if they had breached it, rather than only finding out when the bill arrives". Of course downloading a 2 hr movie would run the bill up so fast that the system to monitor overages would have probably failed to stop it before the bill was already too high. True but the system could have done the lock down AFTER that download was done. Also the article is unclear on if the download was one episode or the full season. If the latter then the lock down could have been done at an episode boundary. | |
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Corona
It's cool, I'm takin it back
Premium
join:2000-03-14
Aubrey, TX
| said by GOLFnSUN :...the lawyer had a somewhat good idea, but in this particular case it would have failed anyway: » www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.···ll.phtmlShe said: "…service providers also have a responsibility. It would be better if subscribers were given a monthly maximum spend so they could be notified if they had breached it, rather than only finding out when the bill arrives". They have that already, it's called prepay. | |
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dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
| This is very true. I was checking tmobile the other day and noticed they are now offering "alerts." I thought that was great and started to look for the alert to set when my bill exceeds a certain amount.
No such luck. They only offer "alerts" for stuff like when you get an email or other completely unnecessary things.
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dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16
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Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Roaming should just die. The technology has reached the point now that huge roaming charges should just be banned. I can see charging a LITTLE extra for roaming, but the huge excesses that they are charging is just plain silly. | |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| Re: Roaming should just die. said by Lazlow :The technology has reached the point now that huge roaming charges should just be banned. I can see charging a LITTLE extra for roaming, but the huge excesses that they are charging is just plain silly. The problem is that these corporations.. must.. keep.. charg-ing us... can-not stop.. must nickle.. and dime.. us.. to.. death.
Once they have their hands in our pockets, it's hard to get them out. This goes for the government too. | |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| Re: Roaming should just die. said by Mike :Anything else you would like to add before I start laughing? I take donations? | |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Re: Roaming should just die. said by benc :The roaming charges do seem high, though I do know that other carriers charge when their network is accessed so there does have to be some charge. If you think that's crazy, then how about the fact that T-Mobile charges roaming even when in much of Europe? I think that's crazy because T-Mobile is actually owned by Deutsche Telekom, a German company with a lot of coverage in Europe. If the phone is used on their network then it shouldn't be more expensive to use there. Why? I see no difference between this situation and standard wired Internet Peering.
The Roaming Usage Charges from CellCo1 users using CellCo2's Wireless Network should be offset by the CellCo2 users on the CellCo1 Network. If not, then have a payment process to even-out the costs - Just like there are in Transport Peering Agreements.
Since I am allowed to roam on other CellCo's networks I'd expect that this offset provision is ALREADY in the Roaming Agreements, so why am I being charged other than by using my allocated minutes and being charged STANDARD overage rates?
IOW: I should be charged no more while roaming than I would be to do the same things as when I am using my own CellCo's network. And SHAME ON T-Mobile for claiming that I am roaming when using the T-Mobile network while away from my home area. | |
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benc
Premium
join:2007-06-17
Glen Carbon, IL
·Charter Pipeline
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
·Callcentric
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Roaming should just die. said by RARPSL :said by benc :The roaming charges do seem high, though I do know that other carriers charge when their network is accessed so there does have to be some charge. If you think that's crazy, then how about the fact that T-Mobile charges roaming even when in much of Europe? I think that's crazy because T-Mobile is actually owned by Deutsche Telekom, a German company with a lot of coverage in Europe. If the phone is used on their network then it shouldn't be more expensive to use there. Why? I see no difference between this situation and standard wired Internet Peering. The Roaming Usage Charges from CellCo1 users using CellCo2's Wireless Network should be offset by the CellCo2 users on the CellCo1 Network. If not, then have a payment process to even-out the costs - Just like there are in Transport Peering Agreements. Since I am allowed to roam on other CellCo's networks I'd expect that this offset provision is ALREADY in the Roaming Agreements, so why am I being charged other than by using my allocated minutes and being charged STANDARD overage rates? IOW: I should be charged no more while roaming than I would be to do the same things as when I am using my own CellCo's network. And SHAME ON T-Mobile for claiming that I am roaming when using the T-Mobile network while away from my home area. I see what you mean.
One difference I can see is if the usage is not proportionate. However, I don't know how often that actually happens, especially in the case of other countries.
I know that domestically, there aren't any roaming charges on any of the major carriers for most users. So a T-Mobile user can use the AT&T network, and vice versa. And a Verizon user can use Sprint's or USC's network, and vice versa.
Why did I say most users? Though very rare today, regional plans with small local calling areas still exist. It's all that MetroPCS and Cricket sell. And T-Mobile might have a regional plan, depending on where you live (for example, they have a "St. Louis" plan). | |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Re: Roaming should just die. said by benc :said by RARPSL :said by benc :The roaming charges do seem high, though I do know that other carriers charge when their network is accessed so there does have to be some charge. If you think that's crazy, then how about the fact that T-Mobile charges roaming even when in much of Europe? I think that's crazy because T-Mobile is actually owned by Deutsche Telekom, a German company with a lot of coverage in Europe. If the phone is used on their network then it shouldn't be more expensive to use there. Why? I see no difference between this situation and standard wired Internet Peering. The Roaming Usage Charges from CellCo1 users using CellCo2's Wireless Network should be offset by the CellCo2 users on the CellCo1 Network. If not, then have a payment process to even-out the costs - Just like there are in Transport Peering Agreements. Since I am allowed to roam on other CellCo's networks I'd expect that this offset provision is ALREADY in the Roaming Agreements, so why am I being charged other than by using my allocated minutes and being charged STANDARD overage rates? IOW: I should be charged no more while roaming than I would be to do the same things as when I am using my own CellCo's network. And SHAME ON T-Mobile for claiming that I am roaming when using the T-Mobile network while away from my home area. I see what you mean. One difference I can see is if the usage is not proportionate. However, I don't know how often that actually happens, especially in the case of other countries. With standard peering if one side's usage is not balanced by the other side there is a fee chaged to the side that is over using the other's network (ie: Who is sending more traffic than it is receiving). As I stated, I'd assume that the same try of payment arrangements exist in the inter-network roaming agreements.
said by benc :I know that domestically, there aren't any roaming charges on any of the major carriers for most users. So a T-Mobile user can use the AT&T network, and vice versa. And a Verizon user can use Sprint's or USC's network, and vice versa. While I as a customer am not charged for roaming and using another system's network (so long as there is a roaming agreement with that other network) I am sure that if/when there is a disproportion of roaming by one CellCo's users on another CellCo's network that there is some kind of reimbersment from CellCo to CellCo going on.
said by benc :Why did I say most users? Though very rare today, regional plans with small local calling areas still exist. It's all that MetroPCS and Cricket sell. And T-Mobile might have a regional plan, depending on where you live (for example, they have a "St. Louis" plan). I do not know about presently but when I originally signed up with T-Mobile, I could get a local only plan (which may have had charged roaming if I wanted) or an all-I-can-use Nationwide Roaming Plan. | |
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tenorsaw1
join:2003-07-10
Brooklyn, NY | Notification They should have some sort of notification process for customers when they go over a certain amount. For instance, my credit card notifies me by email when I purchase something over an amount that I specify in my preference menu. | |
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Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL | This just a preview of what you will see with Iphone 3g user This just a preview of what you will see with Iphone 3g users and there bills | |
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keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA
·Teliax VOIP
 ·WestPAnet Inc.
·WestPAnet Inc. CA..
|  Shut it off
I personally see no use in watching or getting movies on my phone. My laptop works fine for all those needs and there are a ton of places to connect, even/expecially in third world countries. People rely on those places now more than phones.
In third world countries it is rare to find a "home land line" but cellular is everywhere. The same with hotspots, there are tons because yes, people there do have money and do have a huge demand for internet access.
If you get a huge bill and have the money to pay an attorney to somehow kill that huge fee then good for you, bet you will not do it again. But come on, use a free wifi spot or something.
Geez, even get a sat equipment, yes the portable stuff like BGAN, they have data now which has lower data packages than cell phones. | |
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shopkins
join:2008-05-23
Nepean, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: Shut it off said by keyboard5684 :I shut off, well discontinued my data services, just because of this. Internationally it is very easy to find wifi hotspots. Hotel rooms usually have them, there are cafes' and other places so you can load up on movies or whatever. Even better - get an international SIM card (if you use GSM service and have an unlocked phone) and make sure it does not have a data plan associated. That way you get cheaper local calls (normally free to receive, less expensive to call out) and no roaming charges as that is built in to the SIM charges. | |
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PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03 | Why oh why? "...during a vacation out of the country. He used his phone to download movies and music..."
Why was he downloading movies and music while on vacation out of the country?!? | |
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DownTheShore
Tar and Feather Joe Lieberman
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
clubs:
| Re: Why oh why? said by PolarBear :"...during a vacation out of the country. He used his phone to download movies and music..."Why was he downloading movies and music while on vacation out of the country?!? That was my first thought. Why didn't he download them before he went on vacation?
Why go on vacation at all if he's going to sit around watching movies on his phone?
That idiot deserves his bill.
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Patriotism is not waving a flag, it is living the ideals | |
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shepd
join:2004-01-17
Kitchener, ON | Jeez You would think with a phone so advanced they could have a "Your bill" application that lets you know how much you've spent.
I suppose having someone spend a few days coding something like that at a phone company is far too much to ask for... | |
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Jan Janowski
join:2000-06-18
Skokie, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Don't Laugh..... I used to work at a place that put in a remote phone line to control a piece of gear, only to find out a few months later, when they received their first bill: That they had incurred a 24 hour a day, 7 day a week, 3 month continuous long distance call.... With a multi--THOUSAND dollar Bill.
I've never seen a order submitted for a dedicated line SO FAST, in my entire life!!!!!!  !
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Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
1 edit | Notifcation should happen before you can use it When you roam internationally a text message should be sent to your phone with terms and costs. You agree to it by replying "I agree". Then your phone is unlocked to make calls and use data. This whole automatic roaming and slamming people with ridiculous rates shouldn't be legal. ATMs warn you of the fees before you use it, why don't cell networks?
And beyond that maybe make is easier to select networks in the phone so you can view the terms of all the networks and choose the one with the best terms. Imagine what roaming competition would do to the costs. | |
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spamd
Premium
join:2001-04-22
Rockford, IL
·Insight Communicat..
| Insanity live and well Complete madness!! Why is it that big business continues to have tunnel vision about basic issues like this.
Yeah, every one here is commenting on how their cc's have spending limits. Everyone knows that banks and CC co didn't have them before until there were "problems"...
Why isn't this "spending limit/warning" a basic service to begin with or do they really think that Joe E. Schmo is really going to pay that outrageous bill on $50,000yr.
Even with the TOS in the fine print. The company should KNOW who its customers are.
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When everything is coming your way, you are in the wrong lane. | |
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AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
Premium
join:2001-05-12
ß | too dumb to read too dumb to surf | |
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gudel
System Lord
join:2004-06-03
Santa Barbara, CA | fine print be an idiot, and you'll pay for it.
Also the fine print should be printed at least with size 10 font! | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| * code to turn on data I blame the telcos for this. Simply why would they expect someone to pay this bill. Data roaming should be disabled, while traveling aboard for the casual user. Until the user enters a star code like *dataon or something. Or when the user goes over $100 worth, the data should be disabled with the text saying contact your provider to re-enable usage. | |
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Man Billed £31,500 for International Mobile Broadband Use
idiots
Re: This just a preview of what you will see with Iphone 3g user