Manassas Hams Continue BPL FightComtek continues to deny there's any problems ( old news - 01:06PM Sunday Mar 19 2006) tags: business · BPLOne of the nation's largest broadband over powerline (BPL) deployments is in Manassas Virginia, where a company named Comtek provides the service over the municipally owned electric power grid. The company serves 900 home and business subscribers (12,500 homes have the option) on frequencies between 4 MHz and 30 MHz. Residential customers get at least 200-500kbps downstream for $28.95 a month. The ARRL has long taken issue with the deployment because - according to the group - it's causing harmful interference to amateur & emergency radio, and does not comply with FCC Part 15 ( pdf) rules. The ARRL states that field tests conducted by Manassas hams and the Department of the Navy found the system "was an interference generator at distances of hundreds of feet from the modems on overhead power lines."Comtek recently got tired of the debate and went on the offensive, claiming such interference complaints had been resolved, and that ham groups like the ARRL were engaged in a "campaign to turn back the clock on broadband in the United States.""It's unfortunate for ComTek that in their hurry they went with an early BPL design that causes problems." retorted ARRL spokesman Alan Pitt at the time. "As a matter of fact, ham radio people are often the first to adopt new technology and enjoy playing with it," says Pitts. "We just don't like interference. We have no problem with Current and Motorola."The spat doesn't seem to be abating as this local Virginia WVEC article explores. "They have gone to what any fair person would say is incredible lengths to address those concerns," says COMTek spokesman Scott Stapf, who insists the complaints are "a deliberate campaign on the part of the ARRL to make an example of COMTek," and "a reflection of their generally anti-BPL philosophy."
Related:- 2008: The Year Broadband Over Powerline Died
- Broadband Over Power Lines Gets An Autopsy
- IBM Didn't Get Memo That BPL Is Dead
- IBM Hopes To Reach 200k Customers With BPL
- Manassas Tries To Keep Dying BPL Network Alive
- Powerline Broadband Just Won't Die
- New Docs Show FCC Glossed Over BPL Flaws
- Broadband Over Powerline's Poster Child Pulling The Plug
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 markopoleo
join:2003-04-02
Bonne Terre, MO | ROFL “As a matter of fact, ham radio people are often the first to adopt new technology and enjoy playing with it,"
Says the retired ww1 vet who just got around to unpacking his new ham radio his parents got him on his birthday. | |
|  | K4GVT
join:2006-01-24
Manassas, VA | Re: ROFL Obviously there are people that don't understand. For those, there is BPL, "a flawed technology" with limited potential for the user and unlimited degradation for all others. "GO FIBER!" | |
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n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
 ·Optimum Online
| said by markopoleo  :“As a matter of fact, ham radio people are often the first to adopt new technology and enjoy playing with it," Says the retired ww1 vet who just got around to unpacking his new ham radio his parents got him on his birthday. [SARCASM]Nice analogy[/SARCASM]
I was doing e-mail, FTP and TELNET with TCP/IP over 2 Meter packet radio in 1990. What were you doing?
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: ROFL said by n2jtx :said by markopoleo :“As a matter of fact, ham radio people are often the first to adopt new technology and enjoy playing with it," Says the retired ww1 vet who just got around to unpacking his new ham radio his parents got him on his birthday. [SARCASM]Nice analogy[/SARCASM] I was doing e-mail, FTP and TELNET with TCP/IP over 2 Meter packet radio in 1990. What were you doing? EXACTLY!
These people don't realize how much Ham Radio is intertwined with really modern technology. They think Ham Radio is just CB radio with old pompous old guys who feel special that they are "licensed." It ain't nothing like CB radio and a lot of those old guys REALLY earned their licenses. Making a contact with someone in Saudi Arabia via the internet is easy, making that contact with NO wires your OWN radio station is far different. That is what people don't realize, it's not just for the "talk" but also for the "challenge" to connect two points. Digital Modes, Analog Modes, Echolink, Earth-Moon-Earth, Satellite Operations, Meteor Scatter (bouncing signals off an incoming meteorites ionized trail) etc...
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»www.arrl.org/ | |
| | | markopoleo
join:2003-04-02
Bonne Terre, MO
·Charter Pipeline
1 edit | said by n2jtx :said by markopoleo :“As a matter of fact, ham radio people are often the first to adopt new technology and enjoy playing with it," Says the retired ww1 vet who just got around to unpacking his new ham radio his parents got him on his birthday. [SARCASM]Nice analogy[/SARCASM] I was doing e-mail, FTP and TELNET with TCP/IP over 2 Meter packet radio in 1990. What were you doing? The same thing, i was hitting up BBS to play Legend of the Red Dragon. browseing Gopher on my 14.4 dialup modem. Even then I would laugh if ham radio ops protested BBL if it was available.
HAM is set to die, just a matter of when. Every year it dies a little more..thank goodness. Ham had its place, but its not in the USA anymore. No HAM was needed at ANY natural disaster since 1989 before you pull the "but HAM saves lives" card. | |
| | | | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
 ·XMission
| Re: ROFL said by markopoleo :HAM is set to die, just a matter of when. Every year it dies a little more..thank goodness. Ham had its place, but its not in the USA anymore. No HAM was needed at ANY natural disaster since 1989 before you pull the "but HAM saves lives" card. I would recommend that you get involved in your community volunteer emergency response system, but it does not appear as if your town has one.
Item: Salt Lake Tornado (yes it happened, September 1999) POTs and cell phones down due to volume, city radio infrastructure damaged, Hams were the main link to get ambulances and other emergency vehicles into the area and pass emergency traffic until the 'modern' structure could be restored.
There are more examples, but no point in telling you them since you appear to have the mind set that what many people see as an important infrastructure tool, just gets in your way. But then, many communities are adding ham radios to their EOCs (Emergency Operations Center), and in our area, that is based on Florida and Mississippi experiences in the last round of hurricanes. A waste of money? Or people who know something you do not?
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
| | | | KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
| TROLL ALERT!!!
markopoleo obviously read my several, direct and specific responses about my personal experiences to counter his claim- my being asked to provide emergency comms to major (including government) agencies after 9/11 AT GROUND ZERO. But, markopoleo is all about standing there with hands over his eyes, corks in his ears and saying, "nah nah nah nah" at the top of his lungs.
(Some great info, but I won't repeat it, so one can search for my past posts on the subject)
I am all for honest debate, but markopoleo isn't honest, just myopic.
Oh wait...did 9/11 happen before 1989 as marcopoleo presents???
Nope!
Rob | |
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Vvian Kalyss
join:2003-10-14
Stage 5.0
clubs: | Re: ROFL [peanut gallery]
Yeah, it's pretty obvious after reading several of these threads who the trolls are.
[/peanut gallery]
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Mikami Vvian, resident Girlfriend of Steel, care of the Tokyo-3 Middle Daughters Club | |
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phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL
 ·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| I am so tired of people bashing HAM's. These people saying "HAM is dead" should have their mailboxes torn down everytime they replace them, and be told "regular mail is dead, use e-mail you cry baby". Sorry, crappy analogy, but close enough, it gets the point across. You spend your time and effort on your community, and then listen to the "ignorant ones" complain for your hard work. Heh, I hope you have a major disaster, and no HAM helps you (which will never happen, because HAMS help everyone they can in a situation like that). | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| said by markopoleo :said by n2jtx :said by markopoleo :“As a matter of fact, ham radio people are often the first to adopt new technology and enjoy playing with it," Says the retired ww1 vet who just got around to unpacking his new ham radio his parents got him on his birthday. [SARCASM]Nice analogy[/SARCASM] I was doing e-mail, FTP and TELNET with TCP/IP over 2 Meter packet radio in 1990. What were you doing? The same thing, i was hitting up BBS to play Legend of the Red Dragon. browseing Gopher on my 14.4 dialup modem. Even then I would laugh if ham radio ops protested BBL if it was available. HAM is set to die, just a matter of when. Every year it dies a little more..thank goodness. Ham had its place, but its not in the USA anymore. No HAM was needed at ANY natural disaster since 1989 before you pull the "but HAM saves lives" card. Even if ham radio never assisted in an emergency situation again, it would continue to have value. Internationally, it enables people to learn about radio communications and electrical/radio frequency engineering.
You're not making much sense and seem to be confused. Hams aren't Luddites...the core of the hobby is technology, both old and new. Per capita, you'll find more hams that have broadband than the general public. Hams would have opposed BPL back in the BBS days, too, and ironically it would have had more of a chance then. BPL won't keep up with future bandwidth demands and cable and DSL continue to grow while BPL is still back at the starting gate.
How does attacking ham radio further your interests in BPL? Even if your wish for the demise of ham radio came true, it wouldn't eliminate BPL's interference problems, it would just eliminate one of its potential interference victims. | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| Re: ROFL No form of communication is useless, if one way fails there are those other old and new methods to go back on. Communication is a major part of our lives and without it, we would not be able to do the things we do now. Radios, HAM, and other forms of communications even to the telegraph shall always have some value even after the many year's it's been through. | |
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DeathK
Premium
join:2002-06-16
Cincinnati, OH
1 edit | said by markopoleo :No HAM was needed at ANY natural disaster since 1989 before you pull the "but HAM saves lives" card. What??!! Tell that to my brother who went down to the Mississippi and Alabama area after all the hurricanes and set up a communications and staging area with some of the HAM bigwigs down there and the Red Cross (they even had to build their own antenna on the spot to put on the roof of the building they were in). He was down there for a number of days helping out (by the way his callsign is KC8BGU). He received letters of commendation from both the American Red Cross and whatever club he belongs to (I think it's a national club).
HAM radio operators helped out tremendously during the aftermath.
»www.ares.org/
»www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=l···G=Search
Do your research before posting such nonsense. | |
| | | | N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA
| said by markopoleo :said by n2jtx :said by markopoleo :“As a matter of fact, ham radio people are often the first to adopt new technology and enjoy playing with it," Says the retired ww1 vet who just got around to unpacking his new ham radio his parents got him on his birthday. [SARCASM]Nice analogy[/SARCASM] I was doing e-mail, FTP and TELNET with TCP/IP over 2 Meter packet radio in 1990. What were you doing? The same thing, i was hitting up BBS to play Legend of the Red Dragon. browseing Gopher on my 14.4 dialup modem. Even then I would laugh if ham radio ops protested BBL if it was available. HAM is set to die, just a matter of when. Every year it dies a little more..thank goodness. Ham had its place, but its not in the USA anymore. No HAM was needed at ANY natural disaster since 1989 before you pull the "but HAM saves lives" card. Hey, Marko, my new HF rig is due to arrive any day now and I could use some help making a few mods, wanna come over and help me work on it? You could work on the user interface - we really need one for linux, maybe in java and there's lots of neat stuff we could do on the dsp engine so bring all your FFT skills and don't forget that C++ compiler and a fast machine to run it on....dying hobby - I don't think so... | |
| | | Surfinusa
Premium
join:2001-02-08
1 edit | Hmmm.... what was I doing in '90? Studying for my Ham exam but never took it. Morse bored me. But I enjoyed the idea of communication bypassing the phone company. | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| said by markopoleo :“As a matter of fact, ham radio people are often the first to adopt new technology and enjoy playing with it," Says the retired ww1 vet who just got around to unpacking his new ham radio his parents got him on his birthday. Says the troll who is great at making cheap potshots based on untrue stereotypes, and has never had the time or inclination to back his previous statements about DC power grids being better for BPL, or even shown where DC power grids exist. | |
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kv5e
Ride Free
Premium
join:2001-12-04
Mesquite, TX
| Re: ROFL said by rf_engineer :said by markopoleo :“As a matter of fact, ham radio people are often the first to adopt new technology and enjoy playing with it," Says the retired ww1 vet who just got around to unpacking his new ham radio his parents got him on his birthday. Says the troll who is great at making cheap potshots based on untrue stereotypes, and has never had the time or inclination to back his previous statements about DC power grids being better for BPL, or even shown where DC power grids exist. I really don't want to be a narcissitic source supply for a troll, but it looks like our *intrepid explorer* has let his alligator mouth overload his hummingbird @$$ yet again . . . .  :D:D | |
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| said by markopoleo :“As a matter of fact, ham radio people are often the first to adopt new technology and enjoy playing with it," Says the retired ww1 vet who just got around to unpacking his new ham radio his parents got him on his birthday. You don't know shit about ham radio. I am a very big technology tech and I just got my ham radio license on March 3rd. You seriously don't know anything about ham radio if all you think it is about is "ragchewing" (talking) on a radio. PSK31 operations, Meteor Scatter, Satellite Operations, Echolink Internet Repeaters, Autopatch links, Packet Radio using TCP/IP (early form of internet) etc etc.
Seriously, you people need to get off your thrown. You don't realize how much ham radio has advanced into the twenty first century. People come on here and bash it, but they know nothing. It is NOT "CB" radio, it's HAM radio. You can't even compare the two.
Do me a favor and learn something.
Ham Radio has saved many lives and has helped in countless community service projects EVERYDAY for FREE.
-Tzale
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»www.arrl.org/ | |
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spicerun
join:2001-03-21
Southlake, TX
| Re: ROFLBQUOTE=[user=Tzale]][bquote]
said by uid://794284 said by Tzale :You don't know shit about ham radio. I am a very big technology tech and I just got my ham radio license on March 3rd. You seriously don't know anything about ham radio if all you think it is about is "ragchewing" (talking) on a radio. PSK31 operations, Meteor Scatter, Satellite Operations, Echolink Internet Repeaters, Autopatch links, Packet Radio using TCP/IP (early form of internet) etc etc. And any other technology in broadband and computer (TCP/IP not withstanding) isn't true technology. Is that what I understand you ranting in your chest thumphing exercise here?
said by Tzale :Seriously, you people need to get off your thrown. You don't realize how much ham radio has advanced into the twenty first century. People come on here and bash it, but they know nothing. It is NOT "CB" radio, it's HAM radio. You can't even compare the two. That's good advice. Why DON'T YOU TAKE IT???
It's a shame a lot of you HAMs just don't get it. It isn't people are bashing your hobby or technological prowess. It is your sucky ATTITUDE towards the public that isn't into HAM Radio that draws the insults and general bashing.
In case you hadn't noticed, you HAMs have an image problem with the rest of the world at large. Right now, you guys come across as a bunch of guys who are gleefully doing your best to deprive everyone else the use of technology you enjoy by helping to keep it inaccessible. And rants like the one above doesn't help.
said by Tzale :Do me a favor and learn something. Do us all a favor and learn how to deal with the non-HAM public. It might be more educational than your ranting.
said by Tzale :Ham Radio has saved many lives and has helped in countless community service projects EVERYDAY for FREE. And in between time, HAMs oppose the ways the Public might obtain services that they won't otherwise be able to get. And, by the way, just rattling off little solutions like 'FIOS or Fiber' just makes you look petty. I'm sure it makes you feel better to point to and say that's an alternative to BPL, but it makes you look ignorant when you suggest that to people who live in areas where there is not even a hint of hope that any company will ever deploy any of these 'mentioned' alternatives to those areas due to economics. You HAMs know better, and the public knows better.
You claimed that HAMS have "helped in countless community service projects EVERYDAY for FREE". So why don't you guys set up a Wireless broadband system avaialable for everybody in the community, or at least help lobby the FCC to make some of the spectrum available to regular citizens for such a service? That would help the public more than to continually bash them for finding a way to get services in places that commercial companies won't even touch. Oh, word to wise, comments, such as ones I've heard earlier, about "Why should I have to do that?" won't earn you much respect among the public.
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
2 edits | Re: ROFLBQUOTE=[user=Tzale]][bquote] said by spicerun :said by Tzale :You don't know shit about ham radio. I am a very big technology tech and I just got my ham radio license on March 3rd. You seriously don't know anything about ham radio if all you think it is about is "ragchewing" (talking) on a radio. PSK31 operations, Meteor Scatter, Satellite Operations, Echolink Internet Repeaters, Autopatch links, Packet Radio using TCP/IP (early form of internet) etc etc. And any other technology in broadband and computer (TCP/IP not withstanding) isn't true technology. Is that what I understand you ranting in your chest thumphing exercise here? said by Tzale :Seriously, you people need to get off your thrown. You don't realize how much ham radio has advanced into the twenty first century. People come on here and bash it, but they know nothing. It is NOT "CB" radio, it's HAM radio. You can't even compare the two. That's good advice. Why DON'T YOU TAKE IT??? It's a shame a lot of you HAMs just don't get it. It isn't people are bashing your hobby or technological prowess. It is your sucky ATTITUDE towards the public that isn't into HAM Radio that draws the insults and general bashing. In case you hadn't noticed, you HAMs have an image problem with the rest of the world at large. Right now, you guys come across as a bunch of guys who are gleefully doing your best to deprive everyone else the use of technology you enjoy by helping to keep it inaccessible. And rants like the one above doesn't help. said by Tzale :Do me a favor and learn something. Do us all a favor and learn how to deal with the non-HAM public. It might be more educational than your ranting. said by Tzale :Ham Radio has saved many lives and has helped in countless community service projects EVERYDAY for FREE. And in between time, HAMs oppose the ways the Public might obtain services that they won't otherwise be able to get. And, by the way, just rattling off little solutions like 'FIOS or Fiber' just makes you look petty. I'm sure it makes you feel better to point to and say that's an alternative to BPL, but it makes you look ignorant when you suggest that to people who live in areas where there is not even a hint of hope that any company will ever deploy any of these 'mentioned' alternatives to those areas due to economics. You HAMs know better, and the public knows better. You claimed that HAMS have "helped in countless community service projects EVERYDAY for FREE". So why don't you guys set up a Wireless broadband system avaialable for everybody in the community, or at least help lobby the FCC to make some of the spectrum available to regular citizens for such a service? That would help the public more than to continually bash them for finding a way to get services in places that commercial companies won't even touch. Oh, word to wise, comments, such as ones I've heard earlier, about "Why should I have to do that?" won't earn you much respect among the public. Listen, I was PART of the non-ham public for YEARS before deciding to become part of it this past month.
BPL is USELESS compared to fiber and other technologies! BPL IS ONLY GOOD FOR TODAY NOT TOMORROW! Why BOTHER? Most electrical lines at least in my part of town are in really shitty condition, I doubt BPL would do any good! BPL would mess up other services too! Not just Ham Radio!
And I don't think hams have a bad image problem. Maybe to the few on here, but most see hams in a positive light.
We already have won the respect of the public. Many states offer "Amateur Radio" license plates and other things that put us in the "public light" as positive (such as firefighter plates, cops, doctors, etc). You can become part of it too. This isn't a "prestigious group." We're not being "pompous." Ham Radio is a hobby for people who love electronics and want to have fun doing experiments using the radio spectrum. Many hams have been using computers for decades, long before the public became "interested" in them.
I don't know if you know this, but many belong to emergency coordination groups. You might be surprised to know this but Amateur Radio is classified as a SERVICE not a HOBBY by the FCC. What does this mean? It means the FCC uses us as a service to the general public. Many local and state emergency response agencies are filled with amateur radio operators.
I think you are the one being ignorant. I am a strong supporter of broadband. I love computers and technology and Amateur Radio happens to be a facet of that. I'm by far no where near an expert at Amateur Radio, being less than one month licensed and only holding a Radio Technician license (soon to upgrade) but I feel I know enough now to see why hams are pissed off. This isn't a piss hobby, many hams have thousands of dollars in equipment setup and the entire network with repeaters took countless thousands of hours to setup.
The problem with people today is that everyone thinks a telephone (cell phones!) or the internet are "reliable." By far, they are not. If the landline system goes down, cell phones become swamped and become useless. This is what happened on the East Coast on 9/11 and when half the East Coast and Canada had the blackout in 2003. Ham Radio was heavily used with many hams standing on the streets relaying messages for people using local autopatch systems which effectively sent messages out to repeaters outside the area which relayed the voice communications onto the public phone network.
Amateur Radio operators CAN NOT setup a "wireless broadband network." We are only licensed to work on the spectrum as LICENSED non-commercial operators. That means we can't profit off anything and we are not allowed to setup something for the general public to use UNLESS it has a control operator monitoring it. Much ham radio technology is used daily with cell phones, but the way cell phones are setup by companies (fixed based and only low capacity) they don't work well in emergencies.
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anonymost9090
@chcgil.ameritech
| Re: ROFLBQUOTE=[user=Tzale]][bquote] If it is good for today and not tomorrow, then why do Hammys care so much? Let us have our fun for the next 3 years or so. You guys been having fun for much longer.
Also, isn't part of the analog tv system spectrum supposed to be freed up for emergency service communications? Seems like there's your communications issue resolved right there in 3 years anyway.
Also, me thinks satellite phones are better in an emergency anyways. That is unless you Hammys also think BPL causes satellites to fall to the ground too.
Besides, during a disaster, power will be out and there will be no BPL to interfere with your walkie talkies anyway.
Lastly, even with all the Hammys down in New Orleans people keep talking about, the thing was still a disaster no matter how you spin it. Nothing a Hammy could have done anyhow. Same thing with 9-11 too. | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
1 edit | Re: ROFLBQUOTE=[user=Tzale]][bquote] said by anonymost9090 :
If it is good for today and not tomorrow, then why do Hammys care so much? Let us have our fun for the next 3 years or so. You guys been having fun for much longer. If BPL actually used the spectrum to provide the service, you would have a valid point. However it doesn't use the wireless spectrum, it just emits radiation into it, rendering it useless for wireless uses.
Also, isn't part of the analog tv system spectrum supposed to be freed up for emergency service communications? Seems like there's your communications issue resolved right there in 3 years anyway.
UHF TV spectrum doesn't offer worldwide infrastructure-free communications like HF radio spectrum which BPL often interferes with.
Also, me thinks satellite phones are better in an emergency anyways. That is unless you Hammys also think BPL causes satellites to fall to the ground too. BPL doesn't interfere with satellites. BPL interferes with spectrum in the 1 to 80 Mhz range, depending on the brand of system and the particular installation. Satellites primarily use microwave frequencies (> 1 Ghz). By the way, hams have about 40 satellites in orbit or piggybacking on commercial satellites.
Besides, during a disaster, power will be out and there will be no BPL to interfere with your walkie talkies anyway. This flawed argument has been beaten to death here; you're a bit late. Stations in an emergency area need to communicate with areas that do have power. And even if you want to dismiss or ignore the emergency capabilities of ham radio, it still does't make much sense to have a wired network like BPL wreck wireless spectrum. | |
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: ROFLBQUOTE=[user=Tzale]][bquote] said by rf_engineer :said by anonymost9090 :
If it is good for today and not tomorrow, then why do Hammys care so much? Let us have our fun for the next 3 years or so. You guys been having fun for much longer. If BPL actually used the spectrum to provide the service, you would have a valid point. However it doesn't use the wireless spectrum, it just emits radiation into it, rendering it useless for wireless uses. Also, isn't part of the analog tv system spectrum supposed to be freed up for emergency service communications? Seems like there's your communications issue resolved right there in 3 years anyway. UHF TV spectrum doesn't offer worldwide infrastructure-free communications like HF radio spectrum which BPL often interferes with. Also, me thinks satellite phones are better in an emergency anyways. That is unless you Hammys also think BPL causes satellites to fall to the ground too. BPL doesn't interfere with satellites. BPL interferes with spectrum in the 1 to 80 Mhz range, depending on the brand of system and the particular installation. Satellites primarily use microwave frequencies (> 1 Ghz). By the way, hams have about 40 satellites in orbit or piggybacking on commercial satellites. Besides, during a disaster, power will be out and there will be no BPL to interfere with your walkie talkies anyway. This flawed argument has been beaten to death here; you're a bit late. Stations in an emergency area need to communicate with areas that do have power. And even if you want to dismiss or ignore the emergency capabilities of ham radio, it still does't make much sense to have a wired network like BPL wreck wireless spectrum. There is no point fighting with these guys. They are ignorant fools, it's as simple as that. I know I am doing the right thing by helping people out through ham radio (or planning too since I'm brand spanking new)...
I plan on attending a Skywarn class this May to further my skills at tracking / reporting weather events.
-Tzale
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»www.arrl.org/ | |
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
1 edit | said by anonymost9090 :
If it is good for today and not tomorrow, then why do Hammys care so much? Let us have our fun for the next 3 years or so. You guys been having fun for much longer.
Also, isn't part of the analog tv system spectrum supposed to be freed up for emergency service communications? Seems like there's your communications issue resolved right there in 3 years anyway.
Also, me thinks satellite phones are better in an emergency anyways. That is unless you Hammys also think BPL causes satellites to fall to the ground too.
Besides, during a disaster, power will be out and there will be no BPL to interfere with your walkie talkies anyway.
Lastly, even with all the Hammys down in New Orleans people keep talking about, the thing was still a disaster no matter how you spin it. Nothing a Hammy could have done anyhow. Same thing with 9-11 too.
You're an ignorant fool. Many people have been helped out through ham radio. What a useless fool, grow some balls and come back here under a real name.
As for all of your post? I'd say 99% of the proposals you make are invalid. You don't know jack shit about the radio spectrum or how BPL or Amateur Radio works! Go sit on a stick!
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»www.arrl.org/
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| | | | KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
| Re: ROFLBQUOTE=[user=Tzale]][bquote]said by uid://794284 In case you haven't noticed, hams are NOT against broadband but have legitimate complaints about the shoddy and polluting technology that is being pushed as the gift of the century in Manassas. Interestingly, all of that massive potential to pollute the HF bands (used by far more agencies than just ARRL supporters), is only a BYPRODUCT of BPL, and is not necessary for BPL to work, only physically unavoidable as it passes along power lines that were never designed to be broadband pipes.
Rob | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| said by spicerun :It's a shame a lot of you HAMs just don't get it. It isn't people are bashing your hobby or technological prowess. It is your sucky ATTITUDE towards the public that isn't into HAM Radio that draws the insults and general bashing. In case you hadn't noticed, you HAMs have an image problem with the rest of the world at large. Right now, you guys come across as a bunch of guys who are gleefully doing your best to deprive everyone else the use of technology you enjoy by helping to keep it inaccessible. And rants like the one above doesn't help. Only if your entire world is Broadband Reports. The image problem seems to be confined to those who want broadband at any cost and think BPL is the solution to all broadband problems, and BPL proponents talking to reporters. Most of the world doesn't know about BPL or BPL interference issues. If you think ham radio is denying the world of BPL, you need to look at the situation more closely. Technology issues, power utility inertia, physics, and competition are doing more to deny you of BPL than ham radio. | |
| | | | 
Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| quote:
In case you hadn't noticed, you HAMs have an image problem with the rest of the world at large. Right now, you guys come across as a bunch of guys who are gleefully doing your best to deprive everyone else the use of technology you enjoy by helping to keep it inaccessible. And rants like the one above doesn't help.
Hmm. What image problem? I've been a ham for 9 years now and I've always tried to encourage others into the hobby. I used to teach a licensing class, I've served in a ton of VE sessions and I've even personally mentored a few people. Many hams do the same thing. We want people to join the hobby because the more licensees there are, the more people there are to talk to and make friends with.
Apart from times of disaster, we also help with charity events such as walk-a-thons, marathons and fundraisers that have NOTHING to do with ham radio.
quote:
And in between time, HAMs oppose the ways the Public might obtain services that they won't otherwise be able to get. And, by the way, just rattling off little solutions like 'FIOS or Fiber' just makes you look petty. I'm sure it makes you feel better to point to and say that's an alternative to BPL, but it makes you look ignorant when you suggest that to people who live in areas where there is not even a hint of hope that any company will ever deploy any of these 'mentioned' alternatives to those areas due to economics. You HAMs know better, and the public knows better.
I don't know where you get the idea that BPL is going to be some magic wand that people wave to get broadband into communities where there isn't any. It won't. I can guarantee you that people in rural areas will be using satellite and dialup for a long time. BPL's range is limited, and to go any appreciable distance, you need repeaters. Not the case with fiber, which you can run for miles and miles without appreciable signal loss.
Look at the communities where BPL is being deployed. Then come back and tell us the power companies aren't pulling the wool over your eyes. | |
| | | | 
CurtesyFlush
Bababooey, fafafooey, tatatoothy.
Premium
join:2002-08-23
Fontana, CA
| said by spicerun :In case you hadn't noticed, you HAMs have an image problem with the rest of the world at large. Speak for yourself. I'm not a ham, never have been and never will be and I have no problem with their image whatsoever. Maybe that's because they came in handy so many times over the years during my career as a big city firefighter here in Southern California.
Keep in mind who they work hand-in-hand with: The American Red Cross.
--
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est. | |
| |
Go Hams
@rr.com | SARCASM ON
Um, that would be, "Says the retired ww1 vet who just got around to unpacking his new ham radio his parents BUILT for him on his birthday."
SARCASM OFF
Turnkey rigs didn't exist in that era. | |
| | KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
| markopoleo...again, you are full of opinion and emotion and lack any real substance in your debate. Of course, in the many dozens of posts you made, in which anyone offered a concise response, you have never EVER returned the favor with facts to substantiate your position. You are a pot-banger is all.
If you even casually paid attention to any of the details or were willing enough to learn about your "opponents", you would have seen how vapid and wasteful your post was.
Come on back and bring some real issues to the floor.
Oh yeah, a horse doesn't change their spots, and neither does marcopoleo!
Rob
said by markopoleo :“As a matter of fact, ham radio people are often the first to adopt new technology and enjoy playing with it," Says the retired ww1 vet who just got around to unpacking his new ham radio his parents got him on his birthday. | |
| | w2co
join:2003-07-16
Longmont, CO
| “As a matter of fact, ham radio people are often the first to adopt new technology and enjoy playing with it,"
Alot of that new technology came directly from some Ham Operators experimentation and hard work, but do you people know or appreciate this? Heck no. All you want is some form of broadband to download your Pxxn alittle faster then dial up. There are already many forms of broadband and all are superior to BPL. BPL causes interference PERIOD. Get it through your thick heads that is fact and you can't change it. Jeeze gone for a while and now when I come back all I hear is the same old sucky know nothing crowd. Does that tell you anything??? If not I'm here to tell you BPL SUCKS! | |
| | mglunt
join:2001-09-10
Fredericksburg, VA | They're offering 200-500Kbps and are blaming HAMs for attempting to turn back the clock on broadband?
How Ironic. | |
| | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Back again?
Tell us about the one about how Europe uses DC power instead of AC.
The fact is the interference is there and it is above the limits prescribed by Federal Law.
Back to the troll cave for you. | |
| RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| Throw mud, the harder the better Comtek recently went on the offensive, claimed such interference complaints had been resolved, and that ham groups like the ARRL were engaged in a "campaign to turn back the clock on broadband in the United States." "They have gone to what any fair person would say is incredible lengths to address those concerns," says COMTek spokesman Scott Stapf, who insists the complaints are "a deliberate campaign on the part of the ARRL to make an example of COMTek," and "a reflection of their generally anti-BPL philosophy." If you yell prejudice loud enough and often enough and have money to back it, people believe it.
Answer this: Why does ARRL have BPL at their headquarters? What is the difference? Why is the Navy apparently complaining about the 'obsolete' service being affected by Comtek?
And other than the military, Ham radio operators tend (not always, but usually) to be on the forefront of communications technology.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
| David95037
join:2003-04-16
Morgan Hill, CA
·Be There
| What any fair person would say . . . Manassas hams have gone to what any fair person would say is incredible lengths to work with Comtek to address their concerns and help Comtek solve the interference.
Comtek’s failure to fix their problems shows both their arrogance and how clueless their engineers are. The time has come for the FCC to enforce the law and shut the Manassas BPL system down.
BPL is a failed technology that has never worked and never will.
Internet connectivity can be delivered by Fiber, Cable, DSL, WiMax - all proven and clean technologies. | |
|
kv5e
Ride Free
Premium
join:2001-12-04
Mesquite, TX
| Comtek made their bed Comtek leveraged their relationship with the local municipality with an inferior version of BPL technology.
The unlicensed Part 15 emissions are interfering with licensed users of the spectrum.
What a success!!!  900 subscribers and the unique properties of the HF spectrum are made unusable by the infrastructure choice of BPL.
Comtek is stuck with their "early adoptee" version of BPL that will fail and the best they can do is stick their head in the sand and say "It's OK!" because they ignore the mandate of FCC regulations. Meanwhile newer versions of BPL can co-exist will all of the HF spectrum users due to better implementations of this "third-pipe".
I am all for BPL, but it needs to be implemented with a technology that meets the requirements of the Rule of Law.
There are WiMAX trials using amateur frequencies in the US. The 3.3 - 3.5 GHz spectrum is available for the Amateur Radio Service and this frequency range is available in ITU Regions 1 & 3 for EXISTING WiMAX infrastructure for 802.16 - 2004 . . . HSMM will gain acceptance in the Amateur Radio Service for Public Service and non-commercial use and particularly when additional price compression is seen in the infrastructure.
While others spend their life bemoaning how backwards Amateur Radio is, and max their connections with P2P and p0rn downloads, amateurs with RF and IT expertise will try to make a difference in Public Service.
Please don't think that everyone with a ham license is anti-technology ! | |
| | |
Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: Comtek offering slow product at high price; will die on vine said by TKJunkMail :Manassas Va has plenty of broadband options. Comtek's offering is pretty poor. Residential customers get at least 200-500kbps downstream for $28.95 a month. Who in their right mind wants their slow service at that price when there are so many other options. I don't think that the ARRL has much to worry about. This project will die from no profits pretty quickly. That's what I say. It's too bad that people don't realize how much hams have helped and continue to help with life saving work in America everyday and even just with regular community service (running races, parades, etc). On 9/11 when the emergency services couldn't communicate Ham Radio licensees were there to move traffic.
Ham Radio is FAR from an obsolete technology. It is a conglameration of technology, experimentation, etc.... Bouncing signals off the moon, trying to catch satellites crossing the Earth at thousands of mile per hour, Echolink, Internet-Radio-Linking Project (talk within 50 or so miles of an IRLP repeater and the audio is transmitted via the net to anywhere in the world to another repeater with IRLP or just a PC), PSK31 Keyboard-to-Keyboard operations, Hellschreiber, CW, Packet Radio (early form of the internet for "citizens", Meteor Scatter (bouncing 2 meter (local) signals off an incoming meteorites ionized trail to another location hundreds of miles away, Amateur Television (yes HAM RADIO does have TV)... So basically, don't think of the "phone" (voice) part of Ham Radio as the ONLY part. Radio is simply a means of transmission, MANY modes can be used over radio. Many advanced and more being invented every year.
-Tzale
--
»www.arrl.org/ | |
|
kv5e
Ride Free
Premium
join:2001-12-04
Mesquite, TX | Quote THIS! "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
- Dr. Richard P. Feynman | |
| | zenzen
join:2001-07-15
Copiague, NY
| Re: Quote THIS! said by kv5e :"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." - Dr. Richard P. Feynman Agreeded.
What many do not realize, is that the same 'group' of freq's that the hams will have issue with these other groups will *also* be adversly affected: Homeland Security, your local Public ServicesAgencies, Emergency communications from public & private aircraft etc.
ZenZen.
'Broadband over powerline' (BPL) will create a one of the largest (?'unintentional'?) transmission system (read: 'antenna systems') and is a technology blunder.
If you go to fcc.gov and lookup 'part 95', you will see that all part 95 devices, BPL included, are required to prove that they are not going to be able to create interferance.
The power companies know that it will, and that the steps that they are taking to control this issue are inadaquate.
In Hauppage Long Island NY, LIPA (Our power company) is being funded by New York State (Huh?) to create this flawed technology.
As a private citizen and Emergency communications officer for my district, I am doing my best to educate the state, fed gov and the general public.
I'm sorry if this does not address the question to a better level. ... I'm working on it. It just caught my eye this PM on this site.
ZenZen. | |
| Ham band guy
join:2005-07-13
Minneapolis, MN
| Re:ROFL The person who doesnt know the difference between AC and DC power must be as intelligent as the engineers at Comtek-typical IT types that would'nt know a volt from an amp,let alone anything about RF such as radiation resistance,capacitive and inductive reactance,ingress,egress,antenna gain and directional pattern,etc.etc.
All I have to say is GO FIBER, this will be the death knell for BPL. As far as grid monitoring,that can be done with fiber and wireless links.
--
Friends don't let friends use home edition anything! | |
| | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| Re:ROFL said by Ham band guy : All I have to say is GO FIBER, this will be the death knell for BPL. As far as grid monitoring,that can be done with fiber and wireless links. Actually, grid monitoring supposedly can be done using "BPL", except that it is not really broadband at that point, much lower frequency requirements to monitor/control power meters and substations. Plus there would be a lot of fiber at substations most likely. I read somewhere (and think so myself) that most BPL is an attempt to get the grid monitoring at no cost to the utility investors. Roll out BPL as a separate business with separate investors, then when it dies you can fall back on the grid monitoring and not have to pay for the infrastructure.
Of course, except for astronomy, navigation, and submarine communications applications, I am not very familiar with LF and down.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
| 
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| What's the matter here? I mean I'm all for any kind of muni approach but this BPL stuff is
1) apparently doesn't comply with FCC rules
2) and provides only "200-500kbps downstream for $28.95 a month.
This experiment should be dropped. It's barely faster than a first-gen GPRS cellphone service yet costs more and causes problems due to its non-compliant implementation.
Even if these people are very for from any cable or DSL exchange, the city can still opt for a cell-based service. Heck, my T-Mobile unlimited EDGE connection (tops at 2xxkb/s) on my phone costs me only $20/mo... | |
| 
Jan Janowski
join:2000-06-18
Skokie, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| BPL is flawed technology!! Interference is Interference..
Just as John Q. Public should not have to put up with Television Interference from Amateur Radio transmissions, Neither should Amateur, nor public safety communications be interfered with....
Noise generation is interference....
Move to something less problematical!!! Cable, DSL, Fibre would be an alternative that would run rings around BPL in bandwidth.... Why push technology that is low bandwidth, and won't be adequate in the coming years?
It was an idea that kind-of works, using existing wires, as is DSL & Cable & Fibre (if ever widely distributed)...
But Interference is still Interference....
It needs to be shut down, and better ideas explored!!!
WB9IPH
--
Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle | |
| | Jasper1970
join:2002-12-29
Finksburg, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast
| Re: BPL is flawed technology!! I myself am a Ham operator. Everyone is saying BPL interfers with Emergency Radio Dispatch. This is NOT correct. I am also a volunteer firefighter/EMT. Now in my district we have switch to the 155mhz frequency. BPL doesnt interfer with this frequency. I also think that Ham radio is a dieing technology. Gone are the days when you pic up the radio to talk to Europe,Asia etc. Now anyone can pick up a cell phone and call there. As far as needing the HAMS during emergencies. I must admit they do HELP but the Emergency response has portable power generators, portable radio towers etc. What I am saying is that some HAMS think that the emergency response has no way to function without the HAMS and this isnt correct.
So basiclly what I am saying is that there needs to be give and take. Times change, technology changes and some people need to change with it. I remember when I was young and there was a HAM down the street. And every time he turned the radio on it would totally screw the T.V. reception up. So HAMS say BPL interfers with the Emergency radios. I say HAMS interfers with T.V. reception. Thats why I say there needs to be alittle give and take. Anyway this is just my 2 sense worth. | |
| | | | | | zenzen
join:2001-07-15
Copiague, NY
| Re: BPL is flawed technology!! Jasper1970:
Hmm....
This s *not* a post to raise the hackles of other posters as you.
I am a considerate ham operator that uses the HF (1.8MHz thru 50Hz) spectrum. BPL as stated above by others, does effect HF communications and public service bands within this range.
I work *with* my community to help solve television (TVI), portable phones (and other 'part 95') interfrence issues.
This is not necessary on my part, as FCC part 95 devices (the above) are required to 'accept all interferance issues' and not cause 'harmful interference' to *any* licensed FCC service.
Part of the issue you mention is that the manufacturers of TV's and other recievers will *not* spend the add'l $2 worth of filtering in their products to help mitigate the issue.
Since TV signals start at about 50MHz, you could be affected by BPL also,
I just feel that if I am part of the solution, I am not 'the part' of a problem.
PLease understand that for many reasons & services, not *just* the 'amateur radio service', BPL is an issue that needs addressing.
Again, Jasper1970, BPL is not the be-all, end-all' that the industry would have us believe.
By the way, I am able, with very little power, to communicate across the globe, when the conditions are 'good'. I personally will *not* use an add'l power amplifier on my modest HF radio. I rarley use the full 100 watts, even though I am authorized to use up to 2000 watts. I consider that over-kill, except in the case of emergencies, such as the 'Katrina crises'.
At this time the 'solar cycle' is very weak, but I consider that a challange and attempt to over-come it by using alternate radio technologies ('modes')
I am very sorry to hear that there are not other hams in your area that when approatched in a non-aggressive manner, will not help your situation. I consider it anonther 'public service'.
Before this escalates any furthur, I will send all my best to you and I hope that your TVI & other issues can be addressed and limited, if not solved.
Yours truly,
ZenZen | |
| | | | zenzen
join:2001-07-15
Copiague, NY
| Re: BPL is flawed technology!! Sorry, I meant 1500 watts, not 2000 watts. Opps!
Not that I would approach that amount of power, as I as had said.
I think that at this point, the best thing I can do is to stop commentinting in this forum.
It's just getting too nasty, and that's not my style
Yours truly,
ZenZen. | |
| | |
rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Although most public safety has moved to high band VHF and 800Mhz, some areas still use low band VHF for services. While the low band VHF spectrum is largely empty in areas, spectrum never loses value, and I think you'll see a resurgence in its use in the coming years as higher frequencies become more congested. Take UHF TV spectrum for example. This was once boring wasteland, but recently became "sexy" once again now that they're looking at using the "whitespace" for data services. Perhaps this will be the case in the future for low band VHF, but it won't be possible if every powerline in the nation emits radiation in this spectrum making it useless.
It's too bad you consider ham radio dying technology. Long distance communications have been possible by landline phones as well for decades. The point of ham radio isn't to supplant or compete with other forms of communications, otherwise it would have died 40 years ago. As far as hams interfering with TVs, I suggest you go back to your study materials and learn why this happens. It most often is not the fault of the ham station, but part of being licensed is understanding the technical reasons behind it and knowing how to fix it when it happens.
Have you experienced HF or been exposed to digital communications? Is there an active club local to you? I think you'll find it's far from dying, especially outside of the 2 meter repeater world that some hams never venture outside of. In my opinion the hobby is changing from its public service roll to more of its roots as an experimentation and education service. I think licensing changes that are inevitable later this year will probably renew interest for some, and an upswing in the sunspot cycle in coming years will help, too  | |
| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Jasper1970 :I myself am a Ham operator. Everyone is saying BPL interfers with Emergency Radio Dispatch. This is NOT correct. I am also a volunteer firefighter/EMT. Now in my district we have switch to the 155mhz frequency. BPL doesnt interfer with this frequency. Well, not everyone has switched to the VHF range. There are some still in the 39Mhz area.
Plus, you would be surprised how Amateur Radio is still around and being used in Emergency Communications.
As for the TV interference, did your parents EVER make an attempt to talk to this guy and tell him he was interfering? You would again be surprised how helpful they are regarding interference compaints. | |
| kaos6565656
join:2005-12-11
Norfolk, VA | WVEC isn't local in Manassas. WVEC is a station in Hampton Roads. Manassas would be covered by a D.C. or a NOVA( Northern Virginia) station. However, the article is on point and contributes to the story. | |
| tlcbob
join:2001-07-11
Harrisburg, PA
2 edits | Bottom Line If the BPL implementation is interfering, file a FCC complaint and let due process happen. Why is everyone arguing for or against HAMS and BPL? I would expect neither HAMS nor BPL implementations should be brushed with a broad stroke. If this is a bad implementation, it will and should be corrected. If not, they should be cleared. | |
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Comtek offering slow product at high price; will die on vine