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Marketers: Opt-In Would Be 'Armageddon'
Imagine the apocalyptic horror of a world with less marketing....
UK regulators are mandating that behavioral advertising systems like Phorm or NebuAD should be opt-in. Currently, consumers in both the UK and U.S. are alerted to the fact that their browsing history is being tracked and sold by ISPs via fine print in user contracts. While U.S. users can opt-out of getting tailored ads, the opt-out process doesn't prevent user tracking. UK marketers are complaining that mandatory opt-in would mean "armageddon" for the marketing industry, and claim they'd lose 80% of their customer data. Given it's consumer privacy at stake, and consumers never see price reductions associated with the sale of their personal data by ISPs anyway, it's hard to think consumers will shed a tear.
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andyb
Premium Member
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario

1 recommendation

andyb

Premium Member

F*ck the marketers

Who needs em any how.

Mike
Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA

Mike

Mod

Re: F*ck the marketers

^

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

Noah Vail

Premium Member

Rock the marketers

So, what would marketing Armageddon look like?

Who would play the part of the 12th Imam? Who'd be Auntie Christ? What would Hot Tamales taste like?

So many un-marketed questions.

NV

John Galt6
Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp

John Galt6

Premium Member

Re: Rock the marketers

Like chicken...or Tasty Wheat.

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
·Verizon FiOS
Ubiquiti NSM5
Synology RT2600ac
Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)

TamaraB to Noah Vail

Premium Member

to Noah Vail
said by Noah Vail:

So, what would marketing Armageddon look like? ... What would Hot Tamales taste like?
They would taste "good". Quality would rule instead of propaganda! Choices would be based on taste as opposed to lies. This would be a good thing. Let the market rule, instead of lying advertisements.

Bob

swhx7
Premium Member
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia

5 recommendations

swhx7 to andyb

Premium Member

to andyb
This admission that they would lose 80% of advertising targets (people like you and me) if they couldn't advertise at them without their permission - this exposes the falshood of their usual claim that targeted ads "benefit" audiences by showing ads for things they're supposedly interested in. If the marketers can't get a person to agree to it voluntarily, it's not a benefit for that person, and the standard excuse is a lie.

fatness
subtle

join:2000-11-17
fishing

fatness

Re: F*ck the marketers

said by swhx7:

This admission that they would lose 80% of advertising targets (people like you and me) if they couldn't advertise at them without their permission - this exposes the falshood of their usual claim that targeted ads "benefit" audiences by showing ads for things they're supposedly interested in. If the marketers can't get a person to agree to it voluntarily, it's not a benefit for that person, and the standard excuse is a lie.
wtansill
Ncc1701
join:2000-10-10
Falls Church, VA

wtansill to swhx7

Member

to swhx7
said by swhx7:

This admission that they would lose 80% of advertising targets (people like you and me) if they couldn't advertise at them without their permission - this exposes the falshood of their usual claim that targeted ads "benefit" audiences by showing ads for things they're supposedly interested in. If the marketers can't get a person to agree to it voluntarily, it's not a benefit for that person, and the standard excuse is a lie.
Interestingly enough, this guy agrees: »sethgodin.typepad.com/se ··· ion.html

I don't even like marketing, but I've made this guy a daily read.

bUU
join:2007-05-10
Kissimmee, FL

bUU to andyb

Member

to andyb
Well that's really it: People should ADMIT that the marketers are correct, in that it would be Armageddon for their industry, and then ADMIT that they want to put all the people in that industry out of work. I am willing to admit that doing away with targeted marketing is worth taking that kind of drastic, anti-business action. The problem is that that gets people thinking about what THEY do, and how readily people would start sending the government out to do away with their industry, if they're doing something that people would rather not be done.

C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium Member
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ

C0deZer0 to andyb

Premium Member

to andyb
Considering that these are the same people that make internet ads which outright are toxic to a computer's system stability (by demanding I install some really badly written plug-in which hoses other things if not are outright spyware/malware), and that these are the same people who whine and piss and moan about how injecting truth in advertising ends up being damaging to their bottom line (because now they have to tell you about all those hidden fees to get the service you were initially interested in), I have no sympathy with their whines and moans.

And if I were evil dictator of America, everyone in a marketing job would be executed.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

KrK

Premium Member

If Opt-In is Armageddon, then I say... Nuke the bastids

Bring it ON. Opt-In, yes please.
elister
join:2006-07-17
Seattle, WA

elister

Member

Re: If Opt-In is Armageddon, then I say... Nuke the bastids

Even if it means killing kittens or children didnt have food to eat cause daddy lost his marketing job, so be it. nobody cares, opt in should be mandatory.

Cthen
Premium Member
join:2004-08-01
Detroit, MI

Cthen

Premium Member

Re: If Opt-In is Armageddon, then I say... Nuke the bastids

said by elister:

Even if it means killing kittens or children didnt have food to eat cause daddy lost his marketing job, so be it. nobody cares, opt in should be mandatory.
No I sure as hell don't care that daddy chose the wrong job to support anything. I sure as hell didn't see daddy crying for me when I lost my job due to ad revenue cuts.
axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC

axus

Member

It would probably become an option on your bill

Check this box, get $1 off your monthly bill.

BabyBear
Keep wise ...with Nite-Owl
join:2007-01-11

BabyBear

Member

Re: It would probably become an option on your bill

said by axus:

Check this box, get $1 off your monthly bill.
This month we announce the $2 a month "checked box" fee.
garmst
join:2000-09-17
New York, NY

garmst

Member

No marketing? You'll pay more for probably everything.

All those web sites would go away.

Wow! THIS web site would likely go away. Is that bad? After all, who'll pay the bills?

andyb
Premium Member
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario

andyb

Premium Member

Re: No marketing? You'll pay more for probably everything.

Not to be rude but what the hell are you trying to say?It's hard to make it out without some clear language.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: No marketing? You'll pay more for probably everything.

said by andyb:

Not to be rude but what the hell are you trying to say?It's hard to make it out without some clear language.
He is trying to say that without ads most of the FREE web sites would dry up and blow away. And when ads are opt-in, very very few will accept them. End result - opt-in if made a regulated mandate for the whole internet could result in a web where you pay a la carte for all the web sites you want.

Dogfather
Premium Member
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

1 edit

Dogfather

Premium Member

Re: No marketing? You'll pay more for probably everything.

Perhaps I'm misreading the article.

The only thing they're talking about being Opt-In are the browse history snooping behavioral advertising being opt in.

Meaning you have to opt in to having your browsing history turned over to the likes of Nebu-Ad and used to serve particular ads based on that history. Regular banner and/or pop-up ads aren't affected.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: No marketing? You'll pay more for probably everything.

said by Dogfather:

Perhaps I'm misreading the article.

The only thing they're talking about being Opt-In are the browse history snooping behavioral advertising being opt in.

Meaning you have to opt in to having your browsing history turned over to the likes of Nebu-Ad and used to serve particular ads based on that history. Regular banner and/or pop-up ads aren't affected.
You are reading it correctly. But I think the earlier poster was making a point that making ads, in general, opt-in would be a disaster for the free web we all now know.

Dogfather
Premium Member
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Dogfather

Premium Member

Re: No marketing? You'll pay more for probably everything.

I'd say yeah (opt in only) for email, fax, telephone and other marketing that costs the END USER time and money to receive, but banner ads are little more than commercials and totally justified.

The 1st amendment should end when it starts to cost ME money.
Dogfather

Dogfather to garmst

Premium Member

to garmst
No they won't. They'll just continue to use traditional banner ads just as they do now. The only think that will change is that they won't be able to use your private browsing behavior to market to you.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536 to garmst

Premium Member

to garmst
said by garmst:

All those web sites would go away.

Wow! THIS web site would likely go away. Is that bad? After all, who'll pay the bills?
toolpoints
ctggzg
Premium Member
join:2005-02-11
USA

ctggzg

Premium Member

Track my browsing history all you want

Unlike a lot of people, I'm not paranoid about my "privacy".

ykronic
Premium Member
join:2006-01-31
Canada

ykronic

Premium Member

Re: Track my browsing history all you want

Nor am I, hell if they want my browsing history I'll read it off to them myself. But I think it's more a matter of principle.
They managed to stick ads in magazines, tv, movies, websites, my phone, bus stops, billboards, sides of buildings, phone books, my mail, my email, messenger, misdirects, on the side of the product I'm already purchasing

I think there comes a point where someone has to draw a line and leave some privacy and some space for a more important message than "50% off shoes" or cures for erectile dysfunction.

Mike
Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA

Mike

Mod

Re: Track my browsing history all you want

you forgot on radio, mobile billboards, art, made up words, on your bills, on letters, and on planes.

DownTheShore
Pray for Ukraine
Premium Member
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ

DownTheShore

Premium Member

Re: Track my browsing history all you want

Not to mention plane that drag signs up and down the coast to get the attention of beach-goers in the summer.

GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium Member
join:2001-10-29
Indianapolis, IN

GlobalMind

Premium Member

Re: Track my browsing history all you want

said by DownTheShore:

Not to mention plane that drag signs up and down the coast to get the attention of beach-goers in the summer.
See now when I'd go down to OC MD, I wouldn't mind that really because it usually had something on it that was going on that night or whatever.

That was one of the lesser intrusions I've seen in marketing really.

One of things that both ISPs and marketers assert that irritates me is that my browsing history is their data. I don't really care if you pay for it or not because the ISP sold it to you, the data still comes from me, and I am not getting one red cent from it.

The ISP can go sell random data but when it has my information attatched to it, I think it's crap but unfortunately there isn't much you can do if you want service and they've put it in the TOS other than go find another ISP and more & more want to sell that data.

DownTheShore
Pray for Ukraine
Premium Member
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ

DownTheShore

Premium Member

Re: Track my browsing history all you want

said by GlobalMind:
said by DownTheShore:

Not to mention plane that drag signs up and down the coast to get the attention of beach-goers in the summer.
See now when I'd go down to OC MD, I wouldn't mind that really because it usually had something on it that was going on that night or whatever.

That was one of the lesser intrusions I've seen in marketing really.

To me, that is one of the most annoying. Those damn prop planes are very noisy, and on sunny weekends in the summer they're going by every 15 minutes. I really hate having my day at the beach turn into a TV show with commercials.

supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL

supergirl to ykronic

Member

to ykronic
I don't care either unless it costs me money. I hate ads and rarely buy anything because of them. I just could care less about them.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536

Premium Member

If advertisers hate it. . . . . . .

Then i'm for it!
bgraham2
join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY

1 edit

bgraham2

Member

Re: If advertisers hate it. . . . . . .

I have no problem with advertisements. Hell, they are everywhere and lower the cost of TV, newspapers and magazines to a level that we can afford. I bet half the techies who visit this web site look through the Sunday paper ads for Circuit City, Best Buy, Staples etc to see if there are any bargains. Ads lower the cost not add to the cost and I can choose not read them if I want to.

My problem would be with companies that put their software on my computer and using my bandwidth to collect my browsing habits and selling it for profit. Then I have to spend my time and effort to opt out.

I also think that inserting ads into other peoples web pages will eventually be tried, but I think it will fail miserably. Even the big advertising kings like Yahoo or Google are going to run into problems doctoring web pages belonging to major corporations. Any little start up "upstarts" are going to get killed if they try putting say Honda ads into a GM or Ford web page.

C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium Member
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ

C0deZer0

Premium Member

Re: If advertisers hate it. . . . . . .

There was already a marketing company that managed to put a Nintendo Wii ad in Sony's PS3 page. What are you talking about?

Its a Secret
Please speak into the microphone
Premium Member
join:2008-02-23
Da wet coast

Its a Secret

Premium Member

marketers fate

Marketers? Hang 'em all.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: marketers fate

Gotta agree, if being tracked like a dog means the difference between steak and ramen, I'll freakin' pay for the ramen! To put it strongly, marketers are saying you have to opt out of being . Hmm, I'd like that to be opt-in, thank you very much. And I won't opt in, thank you very much.

As said above, if you have to violate others (' privacy) and make that an opt-out situation (lest 4\5 of the population not opt in) then you need a new line of work, sir. I for one run ads on my websites, but guess what they're AdSense and a static sponsor banner! Nobody gets tracked, everybody's happy. Though on my forum I notice that I'm being location-targeted (not my ads...the forum's). Where's the opt-out button? I don't need a new car, and I'm antisocial enough NOT to want to meet hot teens in my area. As Jason Calacanis would say as an impression of Dvorak, "nyah!" The ads aren't even targeted correctly!

In conclusion, keep generic ads (where the PUBLISHER does the work of targeting, not the user...my ads on my site are related to my content, by golly!) by all means, and make targeted advertising opt-in, with possible monetary savings in doing so. After all, you get paid for completing surveys, right? (not sure on this one actually...all the sites I've come across seem scammy, heh). If someone doesn't mind being tracked for the purpose of serving ads, site to site, let 'em be tracked. For the rest of us, no freaking way. When ads are forced (tracking comes to mind, as well as telemarketing) they should be opt-in, because anything else will turn the user against the advertiser anyway. Whoda thunkit?

Cuchulainn
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts
join:2000-11-09
Chevy Chase, MD

Cuchulainn

Member

Boo F**king Hoo

The basic principle of the EU DP Directive is opt-in anyway so what's she crying about?

As for the US, I wish Congress would get off its lazy ass, stop holding softball hearings about gas prices, food prices, etc. and tackle the privacy issue once and for all.

ReVeLaTeD
Premium Member
join:2001-11-10
San Diego, CA

ReVeLaTeD

Premium Member

Re: Boo F**king Hoo

We're going off on a tangent here, people.

This is about behavioral marketing - the idea that what you do, is stored and subsequently used to offer products and services they "think" you would enjoy. Not about marketing in general, not about web ads, not about text ads, not about posters or flyers.

To use an analogy, if you were walking in a mall with your spouse and 1 year old, would you want a certain store to immediately throw ads in your face for diapers, talcum, wipes, bottles, etc? No. You'd want to be able to choose when, why, and from whom you buy your children products. Not have someone assume you need the stuf just because you walked in the vicinity.

Same goes for behavioral marketing and why it absolutely needs to be opt-in: just because I visit a website that discusses various bars does not mean you should automatically be able to throw beer ads at me...unless I specifically allow you to do so.

Under opt in, there would absolutely be less value for the marketer, unless they can make the behavioral marketing look so appealing to the end user that they come clamoring for it. Then it's moot - the same thing applies for financial companies. I opted in to everything my bank was offering by way of affiliate products and services, because I actually WANT that stuff.

FreedomBuild
Well done is better than well said
Premium Member
join:2004-10-08
Rockford, IL

FreedomBuild

Premium Member

Let em all fry

That is my humble stance on that matter.