andyb Premium Member join:2003-05-29 SW Ontario
1 recommendation |
andyb
Premium Member
2008-May-1 6:51 pm
F*ck the marketersWho needs em any how. | |
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| Mike Mod join:2000-09-17 Pittsburgh, PA |
Mike
Mod
2008-May-1 6:54 pm
Re: F*ck the marketers^ | |
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| | Noah VailOh God please no. Premium Member join:2004-12-10 SouthAmerica |
Rock the marketersSo, what would marketing Armageddon look like?
Who would play the part of the 12th Imam? Who'd be Auntie Christ? What would Hot Tamales taste like?
So many un-marketed questions.
NV | |
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| | | John Galt6Forward, March Premium Member join:2004-09-30 Happy Camp |
Re: Rock the marketersLike chicken...or Tasty Wheat. | |
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| swhx7 Premium Member join:2006-07-23 Elbonia
5 recommendations |
to andyb
This admission that they would lose 80% of advertising targets (people like you and me) if they couldn't advertise at them without their permission - this exposes the falshood of their usual claim that targeted ads "benefit" audiences by showing ads for things they're supposedly interested in. If the marketers can't get a person to agree to it voluntarily, it's not a benefit for that person, and the standard excuse is a lie. | |
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| | fatnesssubtle
join:2000-11-17 fishing |
Re: F*ck the marketerssaid by swhx7:This admission that they would lose 80% of advertising targets (people like you and me) if they couldn't advertise at them without their permission - this exposes the falshood of their usual claim that targeted ads "benefit" audiences by showing ads for things they're supposedly interested in. If the marketers can't get a person to agree to it voluntarily, it's not a benefit for that person, and the standard excuse is a lie. | |
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| | wtansillNcc1701 join:2000-10-10 Falls Church, VA |
to swhx7
said by swhx7:This admission that they would lose 80% of advertising targets (people like you and me) if they couldn't advertise at them without their permission - this exposes the falshood of their usual claim that targeted ads "benefit" audiences by showing ads for things they're supposedly interested in. If the marketers can't get a person to agree to it voluntarily, it's not a benefit for that person, and the standard excuse is a lie. Interestingly enough, this guy agrees: » sethgodin.typepad.com/se ··· ion.htmlI don't even like marketing, but I've made this guy a daily read. | |
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| bUU join:2007-05-10 Kissimmee, FL |
to andyb
Well that's really it: People should ADMIT that the marketers are correct, in that it would be Armageddon for their industry, and then ADMIT that they want to put all the people in that industry out of work. I am willing to admit that doing away with targeted marketing is worth taking that kind of drastic, anti-business action. The problem is that that gets people thinking about what THEY do, and how readily people would start sending the government out to do away with their industry, if they're doing something that people would rather not be done. | |
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| C0deZer0Oc'D To Rhythm And Police Premium Member join:2001-10-03 Tempe, AZ |
to andyb
Considering that these are the same people that make internet ads which outright are toxic to a computer's system stability (by demanding I install some really badly written plug-in which hoses other things if not are outright spyware/malware), and that these are the same people who whine and piss and moan about how injecting truth in advertising ends up being damaging to their bottom line (because now they have to tell you about all those hidden fees to get the service you were initially interested in), I have no sympathy with their whines and moans. And if I were evil dictator of America, everyone in a marketing job would be executed. | |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK |
KrK
Premium Member
2008-May-1 7:03 pm
If Opt-In is Armageddon, then I say... Nuke the bastidsBring it ON. Opt-In, yes please. | |
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Re: If Opt-In is Armageddon, then I say... Nuke the bastidsEven if it means killing kittens or children didnt have food to eat cause daddy lost his marketing job, so be it. nobody cares, opt in should be mandatory. | |
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| | Cthen Premium Member join:2004-08-01 Detroit, MI |
Cthen
Premium Member
2008-May-1 10:10 pm
Re: If Opt-In is Armageddon, then I say... Nuke the bastidssaid by elister:Even if it means killing kittens or children didnt have food to eat cause daddy lost his marketing job, so be it. nobody cares, opt in should be mandatory. No I sure as hell don't care that daddy chose the wrong job to support anything. I sure as hell didn't see daddy crying for me when I lost my job due to ad revenue cuts. | |
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axus join:2001-06-18 Washington, DC |
axus
Member
2008-May-1 7:03 pm
It would probably become an option on your billCheck this box, get $1 off your monthly bill. | |
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| BabyBearKeep wise ...with Nite-Owl join:2007-01-11 |
Re: It would probably become an option on your billsaid by axus:Check this box, get $1 off your monthly bill. This month we announce the $2 a month "checked box" fee. | |
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garmst join:2000-09-17 New York, NY |
garmst
Member
2008-May-1 7:04 pm
No marketing? You'll pay more for probably everything.All those web sites would go away.
Wow! THIS web site would likely go away. Is that bad? After all, who'll pay the bills? | |
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| andyb Premium Member join:2003-05-29 SW Ontario |
andyb
Premium Member
2008-May-1 7:17 pm
Re: No marketing? You'll pay more for probably everything.Not to be rude but what the hell are you trying to say?It's hard to make it out without some clear language. | |
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| | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2008-May-1 7:30 pm
Re: No marketing? You'll pay more for probably everything.said by andyb:Not to be rude but what the hell are you trying to say?It's hard to make it out without some clear language. He is trying to say that without ads most of the FREE web sites would dry up and blow away. And when ads are opt-in, very very few will accept them. End result - opt-in if made a regulated mandate for the whole internet could result in a web where you pay a la carte for all the web sites you want. | |
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| | | Dogfather Premium Member join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA 1 edit |
Re: No marketing? You'll pay more for probably everything.Perhaps I'm misreading the article.
The only thing they're talking about being Opt-In are the browse history snooping behavioral advertising being opt in.
Meaning you have to opt in to having your browsing history turned over to the likes of Nebu-Ad and used to serve particular ads based on that history. Regular banner and/or pop-up ads aren't affected. | |
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| | | | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2008-May-1 7:45 pm
Re: No marketing? You'll pay more for probably everything.said by Dogfather:Perhaps I'm misreading the article. The only thing they're talking about being Opt-In are the browse history snooping behavioral advertising being opt in. Meaning you have to opt in to having your browsing history turned over to the likes of Nebu-Ad and used to serve particular ads based on that history. Regular banner and/or pop-up ads aren't affected. You are reading it correctly. But I think the earlier poster was making a point that making ads, in general, opt-in would be a disaster for the free web we all now know. | |
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| | | | | Dogfather Premium Member join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA |
Re: No marketing? You'll pay more for probably everything.I'd say yeah (opt in only) for email, fax, telephone and other marketing that costs the END USER time and money to receive, but banner ads are little more than commercials and totally justified.
The 1st amendment should end when it starts to cost ME money. | |
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| Dogfather |
to garmst
No they won't. They'll just continue to use traditional banner ads just as they do now. The only think that will change is that they won't be able to use your private browsing behavior to market to you. | |
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| dvd536as Mr. Pink as they come Premium Member join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ |
to garmst
said by garmst:All those web sites would go away. Wow! THIS web site would likely go away. Is that bad? After all, who'll pay the bills? toolpoints | |
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ctggzg Premium Member join:2005-02-11 USA |
ctggzg
Premium Member
2008-May-1 7:28 pm
Track my browsing history all you wantUnlike a lot of people, I'm not paranoid about my "privacy". | |
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| ykronic Premium Member join:2006-01-31 Canada |
ykronic
Premium Member
2008-May-1 8:19 pm
Re: Track my browsing history all you wantNor am I, hell if they want my browsing history I'll read it off to them myself. But I think it's more a matter of principle. They managed to stick ads in magazines, tv, movies, websites, my phone, bus stops, billboards, sides of buildings, phone books, my mail, my email, messenger, misdirects, on the side of the product I'm already purchasing I think there comes a point where someone has to draw a line and leave some privacy and some space for a more important message than "50% off shoes" or cures for erectile dysfunction. | |
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| | Mike Mod join:2000-09-17 Pittsburgh, PA |
Mike
Mod
2008-May-1 9:22 pm
Re: Track my browsing history all you wantyou forgot on radio, mobile billboards, art, made up words, on your bills, on letters, and on planes. | |
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| | | DownTheShorePray for Ukraine Premium Member join:2003-12-02 Beautiful NJ |
Re: Track my browsing history all you wantNot to mention plane that drag signs up and down the coast to get the attention of beach-goers in the summer. | |
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| | | | GlobalMindDomino Dude, POWER Systems Guy Premium Member join:2001-10-29 Indianapolis, IN |
Re: Track my browsing history all you wantsaid by DownTheShore:Not to mention plane that drag signs up and down the coast to get the attention of beach-goers in the summer. See now when I'd go down to OC MD, I wouldn't mind that really because it usually had something on it that was going on that night or whatever. That was one of the lesser intrusions I've seen in marketing really. One of things that both ISPs and marketers assert that irritates me is that my browsing history is their data. I don't really care if you pay for it or not because the ISP sold it to you, the data still comes from me, and I am not getting one red cent from it. The ISP can go sell random data but when it has my information attatched to it, I think it's crap but unfortunately there isn't much you can do if you want service and they've put it in the TOS other than go find another ISP and more & more want to sell that data. | |
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| | | | | DownTheShorePray for Ukraine Premium Member join:2003-12-02 Beautiful NJ |
Re: Track my browsing history all you wantsaid by GlobalMind:said by DownTheShore:Not to mention plane that drag signs up and down the coast to get the attention of beach-goers in the summer. See now when I'd go down to OC MD, I wouldn't mind that really because it usually had something on it that was going on that night or whatever. That was one of the lesser intrusions I've seen in marketing really. To me, that is one of the most annoying. Those damn prop planes are very noisy, and on sunny weekends in the summer they're going by every 15 minutes. I really hate having my day at the beach turn into a TV show with commercials. | |
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to ykronic
I don't care either unless it costs me money. I hate ads and rarely buy anything because of them. I just could care less about them. | |
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dvd536as Mr. Pink as they come Premium Member join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ |
dvd536
Premium Member
2008-May-1 8:29 pm
If advertisers hate it. . . . . . .Then i'm for it! | |
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Re: If advertisers hate it. . . . . . .I have no problem with advertisements. Hell, they are everywhere and lower the cost of TV, newspapers and magazines to a level that we can afford. I bet half the techies who visit this web site look through the Sunday paper ads for Circuit City, Best Buy, Staples etc to see if there are any bargains. Ads lower the cost not add to the cost and I can choose not read them if I want to.
My problem would be with companies that put their software on my computer and using my bandwidth to collect my browsing habits and selling it for profit. Then I have to spend my time and effort to opt out.
I also think that inserting ads into other peoples web pages will eventually be tried, but I think it will fail miserably. Even the big advertising kings like Yahoo or Google are going to run into problems doctoring web pages belonging to major corporations. Any little start up "upstarts" are going to get killed if they try putting say Honda ads into a GM or Ford web page. | |
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| | C0deZer0Oc'D To Rhythm And Police Premium Member join:2001-10-03 Tempe, AZ |
C0deZer0
Premium Member
2008-May-2 2:39 pm
Re: If advertisers hate it. . . . . . .There was already a marketing company that managed to put a Nintendo Wii ad in Sony's PS3 page. What are you talking about? | |
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Its a SecretPlease speak into the microphone Premium Member join:2008-02-23 Da wet coast |
marketers fateMarketers? Hang 'em all. | |
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Re: marketers fateGotta agree, if being tracked like a dog means the difference between steak and ramen, I'll freakin' pay for the ramen! To put it strongly, marketers are saying you have to opt out of being . Hmm, I'd like that to be opt-in, thank you very much. And I won't opt in, thank you very much.
As said above, if you have to violate others (' privacy) and make that an opt-out situation (lest 4\5 of the population not opt in) then you need a new line of work, sir. I for one run ads on my websites, but guess what they're AdSense and a static sponsor banner! Nobody gets tracked, everybody's happy. Though on my forum I notice that I'm being location-targeted (not my ads...the forum's). Where's the opt-out button? I don't need a new car, and I'm antisocial enough NOT to want to meet hot teens in my area. As Jason Calacanis would say as an impression of Dvorak, "nyah!" The ads aren't even targeted correctly!
In conclusion, keep generic ads (where the PUBLISHER does the work of targeting, not the user...my ads on my site are related to my content, by golly!) by all means, and make targeted advertising opt-in, with possible monetary savings in doing so. After all, you get paid for completing surveys, right? (not sure on this one actually...all the sites I've come across seem scammy, heh). If someone doesn't mind being tracked for the purpose of serving ads, site to site, let 'em be tracked. For the rest of us, no freaking way. When ads are forced (tracking comes to mind, as well as telemarketing) they should be opt-in, because anything else will turn the user against the advertiser anyway. Whoda thunkit? | |
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CuchulainnThe Roar of the Masses Could be Farts join:2000-11-09 Chevy Chase, MD |
Boo F**king HooThe basic principle of the EU DP Directive is opt-in anyway so what's she crying about?
As for the US, I wish Congress would get off its lazy ass, stop holding softball hearings about gas prices, food prices, etc. and tackle the privacy issue once and for all. | |
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| ReVeLaTeD Premium Member join:2001-11-10 San Diego, CA |
Re: Boo F**king HooWe're going off on a tangent here, people.
This is about behavioral marketing - the idea that what you do, is stored and subsequently used to offer products and services they "think" you would enjoy. Not about marketing in general, not about web ads, not about text ads, not about posters or flyers.
To use an analogy, if you were walking in a mall with your spouse and 1 year old, would you want a certain store to immediately throw ads in your face for diapers, talcum, wipes, bottles, etc? No. You'd want to be able to choose when, why, and from whom you buy your children products. Not have someone assume you need the stuf just because you walked in the vicinity.
Same goes for behavioral marketing and why it absolutely needs to be opt-in: just because I visit a website that discusses various bars does not mean you should automatically be able to throw beer ads at me...unless I specifically allow you to do so.
Under opt in, there would absolutely be less value for the marketer, unless they can make the behavioral marketing look so appealing to the end user that they come clamoring for it. Then it's moot - the same thing applies for financial companies. I opted in to everything my bank was offering by way of affiliate products and services, because I actually WANT that stuff. | |
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FreedomBuildWell done is better than well said Premium Member join:2004-10-08 Rockford, IL |
Let em all fryThat is my humble stance on that matter. | |
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