 
Iridium
Premium
join:2003-04-02
Los Angeles, CA
 ·DSL EXTREME
| Declining considerably because it's becoming harder and harder to enforce. Didn't Comcast just get in trouble for throttling torrents? Also most people pirate software and music, especially in other countries.
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My next laptop will be an Apple, I am fed up with PC's and Windows. | |
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bigunk
Gort, Klattu Birada Nikto
join:2001-02-10
Santa Clarita, CA | Re: Declining considerably I thought I just saw something where MD is now known as something else. This suggests to me they are publicly killing the MD name and have re-incorporated under a different name. Heads up on this on... | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Declining considerably said by bigunk  :I thought I just saw something where MD is now known as something else. This suggests to me they are publicly killing the MD name and have re-incorporated under a different name. Heads up on this on... Typical. when you get a bad rep, change your name and all is good again. moving companies do this all the time.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
1 edit | Ha ha My violin is playing for the racketeering SOBs. | |
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Rexter
YeeHaw
join:2002-11-17
cloud 9
1 edit | Business Model: "We'll wage war on your customers" failure? How can this not be successful? I recently started a small company. As soon as I establish my customer base I intend to start suing them. I'll need a company like this. How can it be, that such interest is declining?
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With every new wave of optimism, or pessimism, we are ready to abandon history, and time tested principles, but we cling tenaciously and unquestioningly to our prejudices. (Benjamin Graham) | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
 ·Comcast
| Uh huh... Maybe, just maybe, all the FUD and overblown "piracy" hype is catching up to the whiners.
Yes, people download things.
Numbers also get exagerated(slightly  ).
Ha Ha! Crash and burn fools!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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| Anomaly95
join:2005-12-11
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Uh huh... "Ha Ha! Crash and burn fools!"
Indeed. No sympathy whatsoever.
Especially since they were the main company to aid the **AA's (mostly) bullcrap lawsuits that clog the court system.
Ever since their emails got leaked last year, I knew this was not a smart company. | |
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Lineage
rawr?
Premium
join:2006-10-19
USA | And all the people said. AMEN | |
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aciddrink
join:2000-08-26
Kailua, HI | DIE PLZ THX Good I hope this evil and morally questionable company burns in hell! Hosting illegal files on the internet to trap P2P users. Bleh! | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: Losing customers said by Morac :Maybe it's because pirates actually buy more music and movies than regular people. That's like saying embezzlers have bigger checking accounts. Well sure because they are funding them with stolen money. | |
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| | zod5000
join:2003-10-21
Edmonton, AB
·TELUS
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Losing customers I think they'res alot of people out there who buy movies/music and pirate. It would be financially impossible for most people to have all the music/movies they want. Wouldn't be suprised if people who really like music, buy what they can (their most favorite stuff) and pirate the rest. | |
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Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| said by BF69 :That's like saying embezzlers have bigger checking accounts. Well sure because they are funding them with stolen money. Actually it's nothing like that at all. People who embezzle money have larger checking accounts because it's filled with stolen money.
If I had stated that people who pirate music have larger music collections, then that analogy would make sense.
What I stated was that pirates actually buy more music (legally), which is a plus for the recording industry. | |
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| | qworster
join:2001-11-25
Los Angeles, CA
·Brand X Internet
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·Vonage
·DSL EXTREME
3 edits | said by BF69 :said by Morac :Maybe it's because pirates actually buy more music and movies than regular people. That's like saying embezzlers have bigger checking accounts. Well sure because they are funding them with stolen money. WRONG!
Has it ever occurred to you that many p2p people use it to SAMPLE MUSIC BEFORE THEY BUY IT?
That's what I do!
Rather then pay 18 dollars for a CD, I download an MP3 of it to see if it's WORTH buying. If it is, then I buy it and convert it to FLAC (for my computer) and/or 256K MP3 (for my player). Most p2p downloads are only 128K, and despite what the RIAA whines that's crappy quality!
If I don't like the CD I delete the files. If I only like one of two tracks then I buy those in 256K MP3 form from Amazon.
But I guess that makes me a crook in the eyes of the industry I help support-and in your opinion too!
RIGHT? | |
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| | | hihi
join:2007-05-06
Port Orange, FL
|  Re: Losing customers
said by qworster :said by BF69 :said by Morac :Maybe it's because pirates actually buy more music and movies than regular people. That's like saying embezzlers have bigger checking accounts. Well sure because they are funding them with stolen money. WRONG!Has it ever occurred to you that many p2p people use it to SAMPLE MUSIC BEFORE THEY BUY IT?That's what I do! Rather then pay 18 dollars for a CD, I download an MP3 of it to see if it's WORTH buying. If it is, then I buy it and convert it to FLAC (for my computer) and/or 256K MP3 (for my player). Most p2p downloads are only 128K, and despite what the RIAA whines that's crappy quality! If I don't like the CD I delete the files. If I only like one of two tracks then I buy those in 256K MP3 form from Amazon. But I guess that makes me a crook in the eyes of the industry I help support-and in your opinion too! RIGHT? Not all filesharers are poor...Most of us can only afford what we have in our pocket money. Usually not a whole lot to buy everything.
We spend more money on hardware upgrades then we do on software or digital material. We literally spend all our money until we have nothing. That's what the riaa,mpaa cannot comprehend. They are sue-happy, trigger-happy. They use fear to control us and its not working. How about a love based form of control that says ok you can share whatever you want as long as you keep buying our stuff? | |
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| | | | EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA
| Re: Losing customers Theoretically, if you pirate something that you wouldn't have paid for you've hurt no one... Indeed, in such a situation no one is worse off: you get whatever marginal enjoyment the pirated product gives, and the record company wasn't going to get your money anyway.
The problem with this is that there's really no way to prove that you wouldn't have paid for it if piracy wasn't possible, because if you would have paid for it, then the record company is worse off, the infamous "lost sales" numbers are almost certainly overblown, but aren't $0 either... | |
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angles
| leeching Leeching is the problem (that's one way to look at it).
If everyone is forced to "share" on a 1:1 basis, then it's more like time-shifting. In other words, you essentially have to buy things to share, there are no "broadcast"-like p2p technologies -- i.e. -- no leeching.
Scaring people away from sharing-oriented networks has led to a legal environment which creates a strong incentive to leech. This creates a broadcast environment where there are fewer targets to take down. But what it seems these folks are now discovering is that these broadcast environments CAN'T be taken down, given the amount of money the entertainment industry or their representatives have at their disposal.
Sure, things are possible -- all kinds of things are possible -- but is there enough money to implement it, or is it just throwing money down the drain because there isn't enough money to actually ensure a successful outcome (sounds like Iraq a little bit). Wishful thinking in other words, that you could eliminate file sharing on a global level without a significantly larger investment than you can afford.
In any case, leeching, it seems to me, is more problematic ethically, because it's one person sharing something with many, many other people. Leeching mirrors the music industry's formula (i.e. quantity of sales required to actually make money on an artist) and, it would seem to me, that a leeching model is more destructive than a sharing model, because in a sharing model, at least the idea that you can't get "something for nothing" is reinforced, whereas in these unofficial broadcast networks, the idea becomes that music isn't really worth anything and that why pay for it when you can just get it for free? In this way, all music and other multimedia gets devalued, and only gets viewed as something that is or should be free. This is wrong. It creates absolutely no incentive for artists to do anything (in theory, again). Some artists are able to rise above it, so that just goes to show ya...
A sharing consciousness could drive sales, it could theoretically offer a reverse communication channel (i.e. feedback) about things like eco-friendly album jackets, DRM, and much more. It could build closer bonds between artist(s) and fans.
I consider these just broad conceptual ideas, rough approximations, so to speak. Certainly the idea of sharing things (e.g. I rent a movie, my friends come over and we watch it together) doesn't hurt anyone, and strikes a better balance. There are some people who might seem like morons who would scream and shout that everyone of your friends that comes over needs to have rented a copy of the movie or else you need to go through the red tape of opening up a movie theatre and then charge admission (of course, they'll only scream and shout this stuff for you if you can afford their fees, which probably makes them anything but morons). The morons are the ones who pay their fees.
I think the push towards a "broadcast" environment with lots of leeches makes it strategically easier (in theory) to "take it down", but it's probably wiser to have things self-regulate so that the best places to hang out require significant sharing but also offer significant rewards for that sharing. Of course, these types of places are easier to infiltrate and take down, so people move to the broadcast-type networks (e.g. turning off sharing and downloading from places that don't require it).
The heretofore big spenders on unnecessary and strategically blunderous anti-piracy services are probably finding out that it's the unofficial broadcast networks they can't take down, and the more sharing-oriented networks they get taken down, the worse the broadcast problem becomes. Because, on balance, the sharing-oriented networks require more input from the individual file sharer -- I mean, this doesn't absolve them from any responsibility, but this type of situation is more balanced, more workable than the growing chasm of unofficial broadcast-like filesharing networks and the legitimate services, many of whom are technology-bound and revenue-paranoid to too great of an unnecessary degree, negatively influencing their ability to provide anything to actually get excited about. If your customers can't get excited about your entertainment product or entertainment service, you have a little problem. | |
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sivran
God Save The Suite
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Indeed so.
While not the specific kind of copyright infringement discussed most often, anime music videos using copyrighted songs are technically infringing. A couple of them did, however, directly lead to my purchase of a Nightwish CD. 
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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon profitable cause... | |
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bear73
Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies
Premium
join:2001-06-09
Grand Forks Afb, ND | Re: Losing customers i believe you will find that your example is legal under FAIR USE acts.
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If ya gotta go, Go with a SMILE!
»www.thereligionofpeace.com/ | |
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| grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY | Re: Don't get too smug on this matter! Let them criminalize it. They wouldn't get away with half the shit they do if things went through criminal and not civil court. | |
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bear73
Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies
Premium
join:2001-06-09
Grand Forks Afb, ND
·Midcontinent Commu..
| Re: Don't get too smug on this matter! brainiac... if they get the laws re-written the way THEY want them, the RIAA will win every case. There will be no more FAIR USE Act or anything resembling what is commonly accepted use. You want to put music on your IPod? gotta buy it. want to play the same trac on your computer or Home Theatre PC? got to buy another copy in the supported format. Wnat to have a CD of the same trac for archive? got to buy ANOTHER copy.
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If ya gotta go, Go with a SMILE!
»www.thereligionofpeace.com/ | |
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| | | grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY | Re: Don't get too smug on this matter! Uh you do realize criminal court has a jury where you need 100% consensus and a very high standard of evidence. It isn't as easy to get legislation past and even if you do get it passed it is still subject to judicial review. | |
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Rogue Wolf
Drank Your Milkshake- He Drank It Up
join:2003-08-12
Troy, NY | Re: Don't get too smug on this matter! It's very easy for the RIAA and MPAA to prove you've broken the law when they basically get to have the laws written however they want.
Can you afford to appeal a case all the way to the Supreme Court? They can. | |
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| | | | | grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY
| Re: Don't get too smug on this matter! No its not easy to just have a law written, especially when it goes under judicial review. Even if they have the laws written they still have to have probable cause and a law enforcement agent has to collect the evidence. It is very hard to collect evidence on a digital crime of this nature especially after a lot of time has passed. No one is going to bust you for burning a copy of your friend's CD and if copyright law is deemed so important then the law should reflect that and collect information on the infringers. As soon as the criminal trials start collecting evidence they will encounter the law of diminishing returns and go back to going after the real pirates. Street vendors and the sources of piracy. | |
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HackedServer
join:2008-07-12
Ossineke, MI
·Charter Pipeline
| Failed. Again. When will these company's learn. P2P isn't hurting anyone, studies have shown that sales actually increase (»torrentfreak.com/piracy-boosts-c···-071103/). When people start to use p2p to promote their band or w/e, that must mean its a good thing. Buckcherry even tried to make a big deal out of their song getting leaked (They leaked it) in order to gain popularity.
When people try to mess with torrent sites like TPB, they end up losing, and losing a lot.
Like when the police raided their server room. So many people attacked the police's website that it was down for a while.
Now MediaDefender tried to mess with TBP, and see what happens? | |
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Hellrazor
join:2002-02-02
Abyss | bah humbug "We lost $3million to piracy last year. So we spent $2million to fight piracy this year and only lost $2.5million to piracy."
I am not sure about you, but even an Enron accountant would notice that they are moving backwards. | |
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The observer
@grandenetworks.net | That is the way it should be The internet should remain a free and uncontrolled environment; and those who try or will try controlling measures, will find themselves undesirable at the end. | |
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| garywk
join:2001-03-06
Clarkston, WA
·CableOne
| Re: That is the way it should be said by The observer :
The internet should remain a free and uncontrolled environment; and those who try or will try controlling measures, will find themselves undesirable at the end.
I don't know that I will agree with that completely. Things like censorship of political thought and other normally-protected concepts should remain free. However, there needs to be consequences for completely outrageous behavior such as the woman who drove the little girl to suicide through her usage of the internet. That kind of behavior has no place in society no matter where in society it occurs.
Should there be throttling of P2P and other apps like that? No, because there are legit uses for those services. I don't personally file share music or movies for moral reasons, but I make use of P2P for downloading Linux .iso's and other legit files.
This problem of corporations wanting to limit the rights of the general public isn't limited to the internet. It's found in many facets of our society, and it needs to stopped in all of them.
The US legal system was created by the people for the people, not by the corporations for the corporations. We just need to take back what is legally and historically ours and stop being so apathetic about corruption in all its forms. | |
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| | hihi
join:2007-05-06
Port Orange, FL
|  Re: That is the way it should be
said by garywk :said by The observer :
The internet should remain a free and uncontrolled environment; and those who try or will try controlling measures, will find themselves undesirable at the end.
I don't know that I will agree with that completely. Things like censorship of political thought and other normally-protected concepts should remain free. However, there needs to be consequences for completely outrageous behavior such as the woman who drove the little girl to suicide through her usage of the internet. That kind of behavior has no place in society no matter where in society it occurs. Should there be throttling of P2P and other apps like that? No, because there are legit uses for those services. I don't personally file share music or movies for moral reasons, but I make use of P2P for downloading Linux .iso's and other legit files. This problem of corporations wanting to limit the rights of the general public isn't limited to the internet. It's found in many facets of our society, and it needs to stopped in all of them. The US legal system was created by the people for the people, not by the corporations for the corporations. We just need to take back what is legally and historically ours and stop being so apathetic about corruption in all its forms. I second that... Well said... | |
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posthaste
join:2001-05-20
Champaign, IL | Phased Out MediaDefender et al. were just an interim measure until the movie studios and record companies could get their legislative wish lists passed. | |
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uid1307457
Premium
join:2005-12-30
Tempe, AZ | made p2p hackers mad i guess quote:
They have had a series of financial problems harming the company including a security breach last year that cost them over $800,000
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Gothica639
@comcast.net | Boo f'ing hoo... Let them rot. They don't realize that they were defeated once it became known they were using entrapment (which, if I'm correct, is illegal) as their main focus of getting this information for two separate monopolies. | |
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MediaDefender Claims Anti-Piracy Services No Longer In Demand
Don't get too smug on this matter!
The RIAA wants to turn the matter of the definition of piracy over to the US Attorney Generals Office. They want to criminalize uses of copyrighted material that do not currently meet the test for piracy.
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