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 |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA | Re: Interference I hope I'm wrong, but I foresee a train wreck on its way. I think our spectrum management is about to get very sloppy. | |
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 |  |  jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04 USA
| said by openbox9 :I hope I'm wrong, but I foresee a train wreck on its way. I think our spectrum management is about to get very sloppy. Yes, I do agree. | |
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  anjorusso
@speakeasy.net | i want my white spaces!! come on already! gimme that cheap fast broadband i need! if tv viewers want to watch tv, it can be sent over white space internet!!!! much better quality anyway......who needs all that frequency for digital tv anyway BEAURACRACY! | |
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 |   DavePR
join:2008-06-04 | Re: i want my white spaces!! Over the air DTV has much better quality than web delivered TV. There is no reason to not have fiber everywhere there is electricity. | |
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 |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: i want my white spaces!! said by DavePR :There is no reason to not have fiber everywhere there is electricity. How about $$$$$? | |
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 |  |  |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY
| Re: i want my white spaces!! said by openbox9 :said by DavePR :There is no reason to not have fiber everywhere there is electricity. How about $$$$$? I have a great idea for solving the national debt. We will rip down power lines in rural areas and sell the steel/copper/aluminium to China for $ to pay off the national debt. | |
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 |  |  |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: i want my white spaces!! It would probably cost more to decommission all of the lines and pay the workers to yank the cable than we'd make selling everything to China. A better idea is to stop squandering money, cut the fat, and start paying down our debt instead of continually being on a spending spree as if the Treasury has a forest full of money trees. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  rafft
join:2007-07-14 Seattle, WA | Re: i want my whites spaces!! I have a feeling that the title of the article is why you had to chip in your thoughts about politics... I'll see ya back at ronpaul.net | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA | Re: i want my whites spaces!! I'm not the one bringing up politics....  | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04 USA
| Re: i want my white spaces!! said by openbox9 :It would probably cost more to decommission all of the lines and pay the workers to yank the cable than we'd make selling everything to China. A better idea is to stop squandering money, cut the fat, and start paying down our debt instead of continually being on a spending spree as if the Treasury has a forest full of money trees. Agreed, but then again our economy works on debt. If there was no more debt, then there would be no more "new" money. At least that's part of the Fractional-reserve banking system that we have... In essence, there is a forest full of money trees until it all collapses under it's own weight... | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA | Re: i want my white spaces!! A certain level of debt is healthy indeed, but we are moving much beyond that level IMO. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04 USA
1 edit | Re: i want my white spaces!! said by openbox9 :A certain level of debt is healthy indeed, but we are moving much beyond that level IMO. We agree on that for sure. | |
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 |  |  |  |  soccerguy
join:2004-06-28 Seattle, WA | What do you have against rural areas? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY
| Re: i want my white spaces!! said by soccerguy :What do you have against rural areas? They should never have had paved roads, fire service, mail delivery, electricity, or POTS to begin with, that way the question of rural broadband would never exist. | |
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 |  |  |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: i want my white spaces!! What's the relationship of stringing fiber to building roads besides the obvious ROW and ease of access that roads typically bring? Deploying fiber still costs money that several providers don't want to spend in many locations. If the ROI is sufficient, I do agree that electrical companies, along with telcos, are good options to deploy fiber given their current requirements for ubiquitous service coverage. | |
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join:2005-12-22 Canonsburg, PA
1 edit | Re: i want my white spaces!! said by openbox9 :What's the relationship of stringing fiber to building roads besides the obvious ROW and ease of access that roads typically bring? The relationship is that every time we rebuild a public road or highway conduit for fiber owned by the public that can be leased to the providers should be part of rebuilding that road or highway. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA | Re: i want my white spaces!! Replace fiber with conduit in your statement and I will wholeheartedly agree with you. | |
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 |  |  |  jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04 USA
| said by openbox9 :said by DavePR :There is no reason to not have fiber everywhere there is electricity. How about $$$$$? Addressed this in my response to DavePR. | |
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 |  |  |  iansltx
join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO | Re: i want my white spaces!! Umm, heard of IP multicast? It's built into IPv6... | |
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 |  |  jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04 USA
| said by DavePR :Over the air DTV has much better quality than web delivered TV. There is no reason to not have fiber everywhere there is electricity. You've got a great idea there. It'd be great to have this. I remember having to pay for a meter and pole when getting rural electricity. The the electric company would run a line to the pole and hook it up. I paid for the pole and meter box, they paid for the line. Something like this would work today except add some fiber to the mix. | |
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  TSI Gabe Premium,VIP join:2007-01-03 Chatham, ON
| All I can say is | |
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 |   TK Junk Mail Go ahead, make my day
join:2006-07-30 Ocean Gate, NJ
| Re: All I can say is said by TSI Gabe : LoL, totally. It's worth one beelion beelion dollerz.
They are obviously trying to sell this again the cash strapped gov't and will probably succeed, for better or worse. Probably worse. | |
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 |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Take advantage of technology. Great theory, but I fear the actual implementation. Something tells me the spectrum will become very polluted, similar to the ugly ISM band in many areas. Since I'll eventually be transitioning to strictly OTA TV, I for one hope that this isn't the case. | |
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join:2008-06-22 Martinsville, IN | Re: Take advantage of technology. What's the frequencies that is involved here? | |
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join:2006-10-26 Worcester, MA
| uh are you trying to use that issue to stop the whitespace stuff? cause that is a REALLY LAME EXCUSE. all the manufacturers have to do is disable JTAG, any serial port, and make publicly viewable documentation for the chips non-existant. you'll never stop someone from building an amplifier too. | |
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join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO | Same thing that happens when you run amok of FCC regs. You get fined a hefty bit. | |
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  Simba7
join:2003-03-24 Billings, MT
| What interference? Does anyone actually have data that it causes interference? Do they have actual proof (video, spectrum analysis, etc) that it does?
Seems to me that the broadcasters and broadband providers hate anything that's new, especially if it dips into their pocketbook.
One reason some broadband providers want to keep the minimum bandwidth low. If this takes off, it'd force them to upgrade their pathetic network. I'm sure their lobbyists would hear about it quickly.
To tell you the truth, I'm sick of seeing people paying through the nose for broadband for years, and the companies not bothering to upgrade their stuff.. ever. -- Bresnan 15M/1M|MyWS[P4HT@4.01GHz,2GB RAM,2x1TB HDDs,Win7]|WifeWS[P4@2.4GHz,1GB RAM,60GB HDD,Win7]|Router[2xP3@1GHz,640MB RAM,18GB HDD,Allied Telesyn AT-2560FX,Kingston KNE100TX,2xDigital DE504,Compaq NC3131,iPro/1000DP,Blitz BWI715,Gentoo Linux] | |
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 |   amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22 Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| Re: What interference? said by Simba7 :Does anyone actually have data that it causes interference? Do they have actual proof (video, spectrum analysis, etc) that it does? Anything that broadcasts on the same frequency will cause interference. The concern is that people in Gila Bend (60 miles away from Phoenix) use large TV antennas on tall masts to pickup signals. Will someone decide a frequency is "whitespace" in Gila Bend and interfere with everyone's reception?
Or, in Ajo another 40 miles away, there are people with larger and higher-mounted antennas. Will someone's use of whitespace in Gila Bend interfere with their reception?
My concern is who will decide what is whitespace. Who will decide that Gila Bend is close enough to signals that they should be respected, but Ajo isn't?
Mark | |
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 |  Sammer
join:2005-12-22 Canonsburg, PA
| said by Simba7 :Does anyone actually have data that it causes interference? Do they have actual proof (video, spectrum analysis, etc) that it does? The best white space channel where I live is the same frequency as an adjacent market public television station. I actually received a snowy picture with an indoor antenna from that station back in the analog TV days. Of course the "cliff effect" with digital TV means even a small amount of interference can cause problems. Of course there is a solution but that would mean obsolete-ing our current digital TV system with another digital transition. | |
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 Markie
join:2003-07-26 Kalispell, MT
| There is a real reason to oppose white spaces The attitude of DSLReports people REALLY bugs me on this issue. Especially the criticism of Dolly Parton and other entertainers. These people have very good reason to be concerned. The NAB is full of protectionist BS. THIS IS NOT AN EXAMPLE.
What everyone is forgetting is the wireless microphones. If you go to concerts, church, political rallies, sporting events, etc this affects you. Imagine the next time you go to see your favorite band, right in the middle of your favorite song the lead singer's microphone starts cutting out and you hear digital noise hisses from a white space device that failed to detect that microphone. THAT IS THE FUTURE THE FCC HAS FOR US.
Granted, we are unlicensed squatters on the spectrum. But we have been for so long that squatter's rights should come into play - with physical land if you live on it long enough and improve it without being told to get off, you can legally claim title to it.
For most of us, the FCC has indeed recognized some limited squatter's rights. We're not getting kicked off white space below 700MHz (the 700MHz band got sold to cell companies and won't have white spaces any more). But we're being told everyone else can enter the building and crowd us out, as long as they try not to interfere with us.
What good will that do? For fixed location use - churches, broadcast studios, venue-owned equipment, permanent shows - it will be fully adequate protection. There will be a database of microphone channels used at certain venues and white space devices will use GPS to avoid those frequencies. Perfect.
But that only is maybe - MAYBE - half of wireless microphone use. What about people like me who travel to different venues and bring our frequency-agile (can avoid TV channels) wireless gear with us? The only protection for me is frequency sensing that has been proven NOT to work.
The FCC should have granted wireless microphone users full squatter's right to ownership to the white spaces. Next time you go to your favorite concert, and you're hearing interference in their PA system from the coming-soon white space devices, please remember to thank your commissioners who invited everyone else into the party we started and have been having - unopposed (thus eligible for squatter's rights if it was physical land) - for longer than I've been alive! | |
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 |  PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04 Banks, OR
1 edit | Re: There is a real reason to oppose white spaces You're not "squatters", you're law breakers. Spectrum pirates. Violators of Federal law. And you want to assert that your illegal behavior should be protected from legal, unlicensed white space devices? What planet do you spend most of your time on?
The only legal users of microphones in the TV bands are properly licensed TV and motion picture producers and TV stations. Well over 90% of the microphones in use are being used illegally. The wireless microphone companies have long known this; in fact it is their business model: flood the retail market with product, even though the general public cannot legally use them. They just made sure to neglect to tell their customers they were about to break the law. What a bunch of sleezes. It's sorta like selling prescription drugs to anyone that asks, and putting fine print on the bottle saying that it's the customers responsibility to ensure that they have a proper prescription. It's good that, thanks to complaints from the 700 MHz industry, the FCC is finally investigating the business practices of the microphone industry.
One good aspect of this is that it shows unlicensed white space use is feasible - up to now, you have 100's of thousands of portable unlicensed white space microphones in the field, albeit in illegal use, and complaints of interference to the few legally operated licensed microphones is nil. So non-interfering white space use has been demonstrated as feasible. Plus, the sleezes in the wireless microphone companies can change from pirate-enablers to honest citizens, by qualifying their consumer-market microphones as legal unlicensed white space devices, just like every other user of the spectrum. | |
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 |  |  Markie
join:2003-07-26 Kalispell, MT
| Re: There is a real reason to oppose white spaces Whoa, I take it that you never go to concerts, theatre, church, dance clubs, weddings, sporting events, auctions, etc.
Enjoy your life as a hermit, if you are one. If you're NOT a hermit you need to lose the attitude and realize that unauthorized wireless microphone use is a reality of your life and that you benefit from it probably every day. Much of the entertainment you enjoy depends on it.
So yes, for the benefit of every non-hermit American, Dolly Parton and others are completely right that white space devices are a bad thing. | |
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