 sonnybadbutt
join:2001-05-11
Elizabethtown, KY | Freq. If they can do 20 or 30 miles hops the frequency can't be that high. As higher the frequency goes more the rain fade and most of these links are a couple of miles at best at higher frequency. So rain fade shouldn't be a problem. | |
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 | keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Vonage
 ·WestPAnet Inc. CA..
| Re: Freq. A good engineer knows it is going to rain, snow, fog, whatever and would plan for it. I have set up 20 mile links with towers at 105ft using Proxim gear. Make sure you compensate for the rain fade and other problems and it is fine.
This is really old news. Wireless links like this have been used for decades. | |
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rawgerz
In Debt we trust
Premium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: Freq. Wow, I hate to guess what they used to cost back then!
Looks like 60 GHz starts at $14,000 and 74 Ghz is $45,000!!  And I thought the 8K units were a lot
I don't know if that is per link, or radio but it's still helluva expensive! I really don't think Sprint can afford that right now..
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You can't make all the people happy all of the time. But it should be common sense to shoot for the majority. | |
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| | | mc3
join:2000-08-06
Lake Mary, FL | Re: Freq. If sprint can come up with $40,000,000,000 to buy Nextel, I don't think $45,000 per location to get return on their WiMAX investment for backhaul will phase them. | |
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| yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON | I used to have TV over MMDS which was about 2.5 GHz. That NEVER went out at all even in the heaviest of snow and rain. The TV link was at least 20KM. My damn satellite goes out all the time but of course is 10GHz or something. | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: Freq. What happened to your MMDS? | |
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| | | yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON
| Re: Freq. said by patcat88  :What happened to your MMDS? I couldn't get HD from the provider so I had to switch to satellite. | |
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swhitney2003
quack.
Premium
join:2003-06-13
Weare, NH | Head aches Are people complaining about headaches from these microwave towers? I don't want to get sick! | |
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blah
@xspedius.net | Not an issue at all Rain fade really is not an issue with Microwave links at all. I worked for a company for many years that used one and even under the most heavy rains we saw no issues at all. The link was about a 10-15mile distance too. | |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Netcong, NJ
| Re: Not an issue at all said by blah :
Rain fade really is not an issue with Microwave links at all. I worked for a company for many years that used one and even under the most heavy rains we saw no issues at all. The link was about a 10-15mile distance too.
The piece sounds a bit FUD-infested. Unless this is some new, untested microwave technology, it doesn't really make sense. Well-engineered links should not have problems unless the signal is marginal to begin with. | |
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MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
 ·Corporate Colocation
| Re: Not an issue at all said by sporkme :said by blah :
Rain fade really is not an issue with Microwave links at all. I worked for a company for many years that used one and even under the most heavy rains we saw no issues at all. The link was about a 10-15mile distance too.
The piece sounds a bit FUD-infested. Unless this is some new, untested microwave technology, it doesn't really make sense. Well-engineered links should not have problems unless the signal is marginal to begin with. I agree. I know of a local carrier that has a 30+ mile microwave link between Greensboro, NC and Asheboro, NC. I specifically asked about weather interference and he said it was non-existent unless the link was marginal to begin with. | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| said by sporkme :said by blah :
Rain fade really is not an issue with Microwave links at all. I worked for a company for many years that used one and even under the most heavy rains we saw no issues at all. The link was about a 10-15mile distance too.
The piece sounds a bit FUD-infested. Unless this is some new, untested microwave technology, it doesn't really make sense. Well-engineered links should not have problems unless the signal is marginal to begin with. I agree. Microwave has been around for a long, long time and is well proven. Here's a site that chronicles a lot of the old AT&T networks: »long-lines.net/ . Some ill-informed people like to think microwave is some new, risky technology but it's been around longer than several other broadband technologies.
Microwave links are engineered using one of a handful of propagation/rain models which predict the annual availability. Getting the desired availability, whether it's four nines, five nines, or more is merely determining the appropriate antenna gains, transmitter powers, path distances and a few other key factors.
The upcoming wireless backhaul bandwidth crunch is going to be handled largely by hybrid fiber and microwave networks. There's just no way fiber is going to be able to reach rural sites and copper-based T1s from LECs just aren't going to cut it anymore.
Proxim has been around awhile, but they're not the only company offering broadband microwave. Other companies such as Ericsson, NEC, Alcatel, Harris-Stratex, Dragonwave, and Ceragon, to name a few, all offer licensed microwave solutions that you'll likely see deployed for wireless backhaul. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Not an issue at all As a Canadian that lived north of Lake Superior for ~18 years, you see all kinds of weather. Not as many tornadoes as the U.S., but plenty of snow/rain/freezing rain/hail.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI | Re: Not an issue at all Yep.. and we couldn't ask for a better neighbor..  | |
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OSUGoose
join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH
clubs: | Re: Sprint can start leasing bandwidth on Comcast & TW fiber Hate to pop ur bubble, but they just as all wireless carriers, have been doing that for years. | |
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wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: Sprint can start leasing bandwidth on Comcast & TW fiber said by OSUGoose :Hate to pop ur bubble, but they just as all wireless carriers, have been doing that for years. He means they can do so at a preferred rate since they are all in the project together. | |
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joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
Gainesville, FL
| Re: Sprint can start leasing bandwidth on Comcast & TW fiber said by en102 :Exactly... even though they are part of the same corporate entity, and money may be somewhat internal, it does not mean that its 'free'. AT&T Mobility would still pay similar loop charges to AT&T Corp as Verizon Wireless or Sprint would. AT&T Mobility may have better treatment by corp, but that's about it. Right but its all the same money. At the end of the day total net effect is what it actually costs AT&T to provide the service. They could charge themselves 2x the rate and it would still be the same net effect. $500 revenue somewhere $500 expense on another balance sheet but in the end those all get aggregated on T's annual report where the only thing that will matter is their actual cost to provide the service.
So yes there are tariffs and FCC regulations but they do have the upper hand. AT&T wholesale DSL rates are the same, its a tariffed service but how can AT&T afford to provide the same DSL service as their competitors for a lower price when say the loop charge is $20 and they charge $25 for the service (and their competitors need to charge $40 to make the same profit margin on the same service when both companies pay the same amount for bandwidth and loop charges).
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Sprint can start leasing bandwidth on Comcast & TW fiber True... internally its 'funny money' as its staying within the corp. Departmentally, its all fair game.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| said by OSUGoose :i seriously doubt they will do that, does at&t backbone give at&t broadband/dsl a prefered rate? Nope they are just another customer, since is a seperate affilate, as its not a complete company but a company operating under the at&t brand thats affilated with them, like here in ohio, Its Still Ohio Bell, but d/b/a At&T Ohio, nothing changed but the name the public sees. Think about it more in terms of peering vs. transport. Given that there is a common business interest (that both parties profit from), some of the capacity could be written off as infrastructure costs. Alternatively, capacity could be swapped out at no cost to either provider involved, as commonly happens in situations like this.
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I urge you to beware the temptation of pride -- the temptation of blithely declaring yourselves above it all and label both sides equally at fault, to ignore the facts of history and the aggressive impulses of an evil empire
Still True Today; RR
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AZwldcats
Ummm That's Right
join:2001-02-20
Tucson, AZ
clubs: | They need fiber to the cell sites.... So if they are close enough... Maybe...
We aren't talking backbone that is needed.... | |
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| | keefe007
Premium
join:2004-02-24
Germantown, WI
| Re: Sprint can start leasing bandwidth on Comcast & TW fiber Yes this article isn't exactly accurate. Rain fade isn't really a problem on microwave links, especially short ones up to 30 miles. I have many links and never experience any problems with weather. This information sounds like it came out of the mouth of Sprint's competition.
There's also a big misconception about 'microwave.' Technically speaking anything over 1 ghz is microwave so things like wifi, cordless phones, cell phones (on 1800 and 1900 bands), wireless cameras, and lots of other stuff is on 'microwave' bands too. | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| WiMax Stpuid There are companies up in Chicago what are selling 1GB backhaul links via WiMax.
WiMax is perfectly capable of handling it's own back haul through a distributed network between the WiMax towers.
Money posted an article 2-3 years ago saying if Sprint went with this method they could avoid 20 billion in back haul costs.
Clearly Sprint must of goofed on their design or something because they are obviously not using WiMax to it's fullest potential.
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Mac Chatter
»www.macchatter.net | |
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| xenophon
join:2007-09-17
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: WiMax Stpuid Ah, we both posted idea of WiMAX backhaul at same time.
Methinks the reason Sprint is not using WiMAX yet as backhaul is because the repeater equipment isn't available yet. Sprint said very early on that they intend to use WiMAX as backhaul when it's ready to deploy.
Should really help dynamically manage bandwidth at many sites instead of piping fixed lines into each site. | |
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xenophon
join:2007-09-17
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
edit:
May 22nd, @03:29PM
| WiMAX as a backhaul It will be a couple years but when WiMAX 802.11n is released, it could be used as a backhaul for theoretically up to 1Gbps. Sprint/Clearwire also have the spectrum to do this, about 100Mhz spectrum per market, enough to technically do 1Gbps. But even if they use only 100-200Mbps, they'll be sitting well.
I don't think any other carrier has more than 20Mhz allocated nationwide for 4G. With Sprint/Clearwire having 100Mhz, they have a great deal more potential and opportunity than any US carrier. | |
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Microwave: Sprint's Weak (Backhaul) Link
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Sprint can start leasing bandwidth on Comcast & TW fiber