  N3OGH Bear patrol must be working like a charm Premium join:2003-11-11 Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| It is a rip off Quoted from the article:
"Project Lightspeed looks more like Project Speed Lite."
Pretty much sums it up. Nothing but a stop gap measure to get the CEO to retirement and secure his fat pension.
What ever came of the companies with grand visions that built this country into what it is today?
Guess they're all watching the next quarterly report.. -- Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy | |
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 |   moko
join:2002-12-22 Fayetteville, GA | Re: It is a rip off well i don't mine waiting a couple mor years....so he can make enough money to retire. | |
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 |  |   TScheisskopf World News Trust
join:2005-02-13 Belvidere, NJ
·Sprint Broadband D..
| Re: It is a rip off said by ricep5 :said by N3OGH :What ever came of the companies with grand visions that built this country into what it is today? Guess they're all watching the next quarterly report.. Only because institutional and individual investors demand they watch the quarterly earnings. If they demanded profits based on outstanding customer service and investment in new services.... that is what makes companies great, a long term view. Boyeeeee Howdeeee!!! You said a whole course in Economics and The Society in one sentence. In the past, there have been those with the gumption, even in the corporate world, who have bemoaned the existence of quarterly-based corporate outlooks. There are companies out there, big companies, who are barely hanging on because of this mode of thought. Furthermore, this mode of thought is demanded by the bright young men and women of Wall Street.
Because of all this, the US seems to be lagging on getting to the "next phase". On top of that, capital investment, the economic engine of capitalism that spurs the rest of the economy, is lagging as well.
When I speak of capital investment, I mean capital investment in facilities and infrastructure, which creates jobs and economic vitality. Not stocks and bonds. | |
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 |  bogey780
join:2004-03-19 Here | 'What ever came of the companies with grand visions that built this country into what it is today?'
They grew too big and the public hacked them into pieces. | |
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 |  |  bmn ? ? ? Premium,ExMod 2003-06 join:2001-03-15 hiatus
| Re: It is a rip off said by bogey780 :'What ever came of the companies with grand visions that built this country into what it is today?' They grew too big and the public hacked them into pieces. You don't have to be big to do this kind of stuff...
See here -> »www.eatel.com/
A company way smaller than Bellsouth or ATT or Verizon or Qwest that has seceeded in doing the exact things that the giants claim can't be done. It has nothing to do with their size or having "hacked them into pieces." That's a bellhead culture myth. The problem is a management problem. -- Prove it... | |
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  moko
join:2002-12-22 Fayetteville, GA | greed i believe thats exactly what there doing....  | |
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  Matt Take me down to the paradise city Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Excellent Article Very good point. Too bad more people, especially in Washington, don't get it.
With all the companies outsourcing help desks and such, if this were a nation initiative, we could outsource to "Small Town America", boost the economy while employing Americans. That's just one example.
Not to mention the boon to technology research it would provide. -- Use the OS tool for the job. | |
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  Mizzat Will post for thumbs Premium join:2003-05-03 Atlanta, GA | Welcome to capitalism They are a business...they exist to make money.
I guess, though, once you get big enough the public expects you to make strategic contributions back to them. -- What has two thumbs and likes to help? | |
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 |  Cyber2lz
join:2001-11-15 Odessa, FL | Re: Welcome to capitalism to quote Mizzat They are a business...they exist to make money
So were the buggywhip manufacturers !!!!
Just a thought, | |
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 |   Matt Take me down to the paradise city Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by Mizzat :They are a business...they exist to make money. I guess, though, once you get big enough the public expects you to make strategic contributions back to them. This is what makes absolutely no sense.
Look, we're not asking for anything to be given to us. We'd just like to have the choice of faster speeds for a reasonable price. Since the dawn of broadband most speeds have GONE DOWN and caps have been put in place. History tells us the cost per bit of wholesale access is going down.
So where does that leave us? In a "History repeating POTS" fiasco where the technology becomes CHEAPER to provide, but the cost to the consumer continues to RISE. And people wonder why no one trusts the phone company anymore.
Only one telco gets it, Verizon.
AT&T and Bellsouth are trying to hold on to a copper plant that has been in existence for almost 100 years. -- Use the OS tool for the job. | |
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 |  |  squid7 Premium join:2006-09-02
| Re: Welcome to capitalism And who pays for this multi-gigabit deployement? Verizon is spending BILLIONS on FIOS and it won't provide the speeds Carlini is insisting is required for future proofing. He isn't talking about just major connections having gigabit speeds but residential gigabit service.
There is only so much information you can absorb...let's think about the future for a moment; a future of unlimited throughput. What services could possible consume that much capacity?
This is not much different than the IP6 emergency when NAT has things more than covered. New technologies like what cable is doing with video switching continue to improve delivery efficiency and new compression techonogies continue to do the same.
While I can see a future need for 100Mb residential service, I can't imagine what would require 1000+Mb residential pipes. | |
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 |  |  |   Matt Take me down to the paradise city Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Welcome to capitalism said by squid7 :And who pays for this multi-gigabit deployement? Verizon is spending BILLIONS on FIOS and it won't provide the speeds Carlini is insisting is required for future proofing. He isn't talking about just major connections having gigabit speeds but residential gigabit service. There is only so much information you can absorb...let's think about the future for a moment; a future of unlimited throughput. What services could possible consume that much capacity that some kid in a basement dreamt up. This is not much different than the IP6 emergency when NAT has things more than covered. New technologies like what cable is doing with video switching continue to improve delivery efficiency and new compression techonogies continue to do the same. While I can see a future need for 100Mb residential service, I can't imagine what would require 1000+Mb residential pipes. Well, they are companies and they have CEO's who are much smarter than I am. So let them figure out how to deploy it. Verizon has apparently figured out they aren't going bankrupt by doing it.
Right, *YOU* may not see a need for it, but 10 years ago, no one thought the Internet would be as vital as it is now either. That is the beauty of it, until we have the capacity to have gigabit connections to our homes, uses we can't think of won't be realized. When everyone has 1Gbps, we'll see things to take advantage of that capacity.
It's not about now, it's about the future. We're falling behind the technology curve, as evidenced by the Large Hadron Collider which isn't even being built here in America. Technology and it's benefits are what made us a superpower and afford us the standard of living we have today.
How quickly people forget or want to dismiss it because they are too short sighted. -- Use the OS tool for the job. | |
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 |  |  |  |  squid7 Premium join:2006-09-02
| Re: Welcome to capitalism You're putting the cart before the horse and expecting incumbents (which means subscribers) to front the money. You can't expect incumbents to spend billions upon billions, possibly raising prices to fund it before consumers desire it because consumers are the ones it appears Calini expects to pay for it (but we don't know because he doesn't offer up any proposals).
It's the killer-app argument. You need the killer app to drive demand. No demand, no service. That is how it works unless the government pays for it.
In any event, in the words of Han Solo, "I don't know. I can imagine quite a bit." and even imagining multiple 1920x1080 HD steams and multiplying that by 10 don't see the need for multi-gigabit service. And like NAT there are other emerging technologies making delivery more efficient and aren't even being considers by build-out proponents.
It's like demanding that all new computers should have 1TB of ram but it'll cost $10,000 each. Sure it would be nice to have more memory than you can use right now and perhaps in 10-20 years you will use it, but who is going to shell out the 10 large today to pay for it? Not me.
These are the types of questions Calini should be answering when he puts on the Captain Obvious costume to complain about the internet provider industry.
The CEO's are having trouble figuring out how to pay for it at the moment. Verizon is struggling with it and AT&T is starting to (as they seem to be hinting at going with FTTH) consider spending the billions and billions.
Where are the realistic solutions? Complaining about past telco profits or saying that the CEOs need to fix it isn't a solution.
I've proposed one possible solution so far, a national broadband policy including government owned infrastructure. Certainly not the best solution, but it's a proposal to get the SOLUTION discussion started. People like Calini like bringing up so-called problems but don't even start talking about REALISTIC solutions. | |
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 |  |  |  bbenso1
join:2004-11-28 Baltimore, MD
| said by squid7 :While I can see a future need for 100Mb residential service, I can't imagine what would require 1000+Mb residential pipes. Right. And no one will ever need more than 640K of memory either... | |
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 |  |  |  |  squid7 Premium join:2006-09-02
| Re: Welcome to capitalism said by bbenso1 :said by squid7 :While I can see a future need for 100Mb residential service, I can't imagine what would require 1000+Mb residential pipes. Right. And no one will ever need more than 640K of memory either... So I ask you this. Do you currently own a PC or Mac with the fastest Quad Core processor available, SLI of whatever the fastest $650 video cards are, 8GB of DDR2, 4x 750GB SATA HDD's and a 30" LCD screen?
My guess is no. Why? Because it's WAY too much money and you don't "need" it at the moment. Sure, 5 years from now that machine may be mediocre but you aren't going to spend the investment now for something you won't require for 5 or more years.
Same goes for the DOS days. In 1980 would you have shelled out 1000X the price of what you needed for the extra memory you at the time don't?
Of course not.
But Calini expects incumbents to do just that.
Of course we would all love more bandwidth that we need now or for the foreseeable future just as we would all love Macs or PCs with quad core processors, and more computing and storage power than we can even imagine ever needing.
The problem is who pays to invest in a service or product no one "needs" at the moment?
This is the REAL problem the build-out proponents including Calini ignore. | |
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 |  |  |  PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04 Banks, OR
| said by squid7 :Verizon is spending BILLIONS on FIOS and it won't provide the speeds Carlini is insisting is required for future proofing. He isn't talking about just major connections having gigabit speeds but residential gigabit service. The fiber is future-proofed. At some point in time, they can switch from their PON architecture to DWDM, and re-use the same fiber. Too expensive to do now for residential use, but it is possible with the fiber they are installing now, sometime in the future. Too bad Verizon is planning on only deployed FIOS to a portion of their subscriber base. | |
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 |  |  |  |   RideRed Vista needs a popup blocker for Vista Premium join:2005-06-18 USA | Re: Welcome to capitalism Someone already said that an squid replied to that notion.
»Milking Copper | |
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 |  |  |  PghNeon
join:2006-12-21 Pittsburgh, PA
| said by squid7 :While I can see a future need for 100Mb residential service, I can't imagine what would require 1000+Mb residential pipes. Wow, you're definitely not a visionary. | |
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 |  |   Mizzat Will post for thumbs Premium join:2003-05-03 Atlanta, GA
·AT&T Southeast
| said by Matt :said by Mizzat :They are a business...they exist to make money. I guess, though, once you get big enough the public expects you to make strategic contributions back to them. This is what makes absolutely no sense. Look, we're not asking for anything to be given to us. We'd just like to have the choice of faster speeds for a reasonable price. Since the dawn of broadband most speeds have GONE DOWN and caps have been put in place. History tells us the cost per bit of wholesale access is going down. So where does that leave us? In a "History repeating POTS" fiasco where the technology becomes CHEAPER to provide, but the cost to the consumer continues to RISE. And people wonder why no one trusts the phone company anymore. Only one telco gets it, Verizon. AT&T and Bellsouth are trying to hold on to a copper plant that has been in existence for almost 100 years. Where has speed gone down? -- What has two thumbs and likes to help? | |
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 |  |  bogey780
join:2004-03-19 Here
| 'AT&T and Bellsouth are trying to hold on to a copper plant that has been in existence for almost 100 years.'
Try and find a single copper anything that's more than 70 years old anywhere in America. The oldest you'll find is 1930s or so. Most copper plant is less than 30 years old. The stuff wears out and needs to be replaced. It's not as lucrative to run it as people think. Not to mention the gov't tries it's best to make it less profitable. | |
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 |  |  |   Matt Take me down to the paradise city Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Welcome to capitalism said by bogey780 :'AT&T and Bellsouth are trying to hold on to a copper plant that has been in existence for almost 100 years.' Try and find a single copper anything that's more than 70 years old anywhere in America. The oldest you'll find is 1930s or so. Most copper plant is less than 30 years old. The stuff wears out and needs to be replaced. It's not as lucrative to run it as people think. Not to mention the gov't tries it's best to make it less profitable. 'Been in existence' - not the age of the copper. -- Use the OS tool for the job. | |
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 |  |  |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY
| said by bogey780 :'AT&T and Bellsouth are trying to hold on to a copper plant that has been in existence for almost 100 years.' Try and find a single copper anything that's more than 70 years old anywhere in America. The oldest you'll find is 1930s or so. Most copper plant is less than 30 years old. The stuff wears out and needs to be replaced. It's not as lucrative to run it as people think. Not to mention the gov't tries it's best to make it less profitable. Maybe the question should be, did residential phones exist before the 1930s to create cable that old? My house uses fabric phone cable for some extensions, built in 1930s, works fine. | |
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 |  |  |  |   qdemn7 Smurf in My Loop Premium join:2003-09-16 Fort Worth, TX
| Re: Welcome to capitalism said by patcat88 :My house uses fabric phone cable for some extensions, built in 1930s, works fine. I assume you mean fabric COVERED cable, right? -- Those who complain the loudest about their loss of rights under the Patriot Act seem to be the first ones to try to take away others rights under the Second Amendment. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY
| Re: Welcome to capitalism said by qdemn7 :said by patcat88 :My house uses fabric phone cable for some extensions, built in 1930s, works fine. I assume you mean fabric COVERED cable, right? Yes, intelligent clothing is still a few years off. | |
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 |   qdemn7 Smurf in My Loop Premium join:2003-09-16 Fort Worth, TX
| said by Mizzat :They are a business...they exist to make money. quote: There has grown up in the minds of certain groups in this country the notion that because a man or corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years, the government and the courts are charged with the duty of guaranteeing such profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary public interest. This strange doctrine is not supported by statute nor common law. Neither individuals nor corporations have any right to come into court and ask that the clock of history be stopped or turned back, for their private benefit.
Robert A. Heinlein - Lifeline
This applies to the telcos, cable, the RIAA, the MPAA, the DMCA, ad naseum. -- Those who complain the loudest about their loss of rights under the Patriot Act seem to be the first ones to try to take away others rights under the Second Amendment. | |
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 |  |  bogey780
join:2004-03-19 Here
| Re: Welcome to capitalism And Heinlein also said there's no such thing as a free lunch. The same goes for internet connectivity. The telcos have a lot of turf on their plate. Not everyone is going to get fiber unless they're willing to shell out a huge price for it. Take Maine, they'll see fiber the day fiber is sold by the mile for peanuts.
The telcos, cable companies, anyone can run fiber right now. But people don't want to pay the cost of them doing so. | |
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 |  |  |  bmn ? ? ? Premium,ExMod 2003-06 join:2001-03-15 hiatus
| Re: Welcome to capitalism said by bogey780 :The telcos, cable companies, anyone can run fiber right now. But people don't want to pay the cost of them doing so. Uhm, no. The telcos have been getting tax breaks and fees to run fibre but have been renigging on the deals they've made over the years. We don't have to pay squat out of pocket either. These companies are make billions in profits that, if they were smart and reinvested in their own companies, they could upgrade their infrastructure. Those reinvested profits would then enable them to offer a number of new services, allowing them to collect even more profits...
Unfortunately, the management of the telcos and a vast majority of their investor are idiots who have no long term strategy. All they want is a quick return on their investment or short term dividends... -- Prove it... | |
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 |  bmn ? ? ? Premium,ExMod 2003-06 join:2001-03-15 hiatus
| said by Mizzat :They are a business...they exist to make money. And considering they have enough money to do phased deployments of fibre and the fact that fibre will give them even more profits with the services it can offer, short term thinking stupidity is the only thing holding them back. -- Prove it... | |
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 |  |   Mizzat Will post for thumbs Premium join:2003-05-03 Atlanta, GA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Welcome to capitalism said by bmn :said by Mizzat :They are a business...they exist to make money. And considering they have enough money to do phased deployments of fibre and the fact that fibre will give them even more profits with the services it can offer, short term thinking stupidity is the only thing holding them back. But they are deploying fiber in certain areas and phases, this article bitches because it isn't to every consumer household. -- What has two thumbs and likes to help? | |
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 |  |  |  bmn ? ? ? Premium,ExMod 2003-06 join:2001-03-15 hiatus
| Re: Welcome to capitalism said by Mizzat :But they are deploying fiber in certain areas and phases, this article bitches because it isn't to every consumer household. Most ILECs aren't deploying to the home, a la ATT, Qwest and Bellsout. There ILECs could deploy to the home instead of using short life span, stop gap measures and start taking the MSOs on head to head. -- Prove it... | |
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 |  |  |  |   Mizzat Will post for thumbs Premium join:2003-05-03 Atlanta, GA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Welcome to capitalism said by bmn :said by Mizzat :But they are deploying fiber in certain areas and phases, this article bitches because it isn't to every consumer household. Most ILECs aren't deploying to the home, a la ATT, Qwest and Bellsout. There ILECs could deploy to the home instead of using short life span, stop gap measures and start taking the MSOs on head to head. BellSouth did deploy fiber to areas in Florida and Georgia years before Verizon did so those that were not serviceable to regular DSL could get DSL speeds. I remember them digging up my front yard to do so and ording the service once they finished installing it. They deemed it too large of a loss and discontinued deployment, though. -- What has two thumbs and likes to help? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  bmn ? ? ? Premium,ExMod 2003-06 join:2001-03-15 hiatus
| Re: Welcome to capitalism said by Mizzat :BellSouth did deploy fiber to areas in Florida and Georgia years before Verizon did so those that were not serviceable to regular DSL could get DSL speeds. I remember them digging up my front yard to do so and ording the service once they finished installing it. They deemed it too large of a loss and discontinued deployment, though. True, but this was back when they were using MX and other older, slower technologies that scaled poorly compared to the newer technologies like BPONS and GPONS. Additionally, the costs of fibre installation have fallen like a rock since Bellsouth's early efforts. The ILECs could easily start installing BPONS now, since its the easiest to get, and then seemlessly move to GPONS later. -- Prove it... | |
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 |  Kearnstd Elf Wizard Premium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ
| your typical american investor cant see past the first quarter. if you look to the future and can afford some loss now the future will bring greater profits and happy customers. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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 squid7 Premium join:2006-09-02
2 edits | Not this idiot again... Oh brother...more lameness from the guy who wanted the government mandated internet speedometer »Are You Getting the Speed You Pay For? and expects our charitable incumbants to provide T-1 speeds, reliability and an SLA for $30/mo.
Of course in that case we all saw whoever would challenge "Northwestern's" (LOL, a part timer) Carlini will just be assailed as being jealous and never having finished a degree rather than actually challenging the counter points with more of his brilliant logic.
If Carlini the Great wants fiber so bad, let him run out and get investors and get franchise agreements and deploy, otherwise this is just more of the same whining we always get from Carlini. Instead of whining, come up with the plan to pay for it as I'm sure the incumbants would love nothing more than a plan for cheap deployment to compete with cable incumbants. Where is the money going to come from? These incumbants make money but their profits pale in comparison to the massives costs of the multi-gigabit buildouts Carlini is whining for. Then when incumbants raise prices on current services to pay for these new deployments he'll retort that we're being "ripped off" again this time with pointless price increases.
In the meantime he compares us to nations who had limited infrastructure to begin with (so their first deployments are advanced technology deployments) or primarily population densities that are very high.
Just goes to show that those who can't do, teach, and those who can't teach, consult and those who are completely inept try and do both...badly.
Carlini IMO goes for the headline with a compelling and provocative statement we can all "agree with" on the surface (everyone wants free stuff) then fails miserably to put any substance behind it or show how it could be even remotely possible. | |
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 |  See 30 replies to this post |
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 RayW Premium join:2001-09-01 Layton, UT clubs:
·XMission
| But willing to sue those trying to put in a fiber system? That is what Qwest did to the cities trying to make UTOPIA work, try to sue the pants off them, then buy a law that cripples the implementation so that Qwest can say "Told you it was not as hot as you said it was".
Well, despite Qwest, AT&T, and Comcast, we may have a 15M connection here in by the end 2008 (maybe in 2007).
I wonder though, all the hype on how great of internet the 'others' have, how many people that would be considered average Joe six-packs in those 'other' countries REALLY have the speeds hyped inside their house? And what is the population density per square kilometer for those who do have the hyped speeds? -- I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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 jms27
join:2006-03-09 Auburn, AL
| Hmmm I have an idea!!
Recently I visited India, whom we love to hate, I had to have a cell phone, So I took my unlocked cingular cell, and used it with an airtel sim. Then I thought how much are the phones here, since this is a third world country. They had a nokia n93, the price was over US $1000. I was shocked, decided to look at really low end phones, guess what, they weren't free or cost at least $35. In India airtel doesn't subsidize phone prices, which in turn allows them to offer free incoming calls and some other perks. The best part was they had almost every phone available from manufactures. This made me realize the telecoms and cable should let the consumer bear some of the burden, for example, cable modem, charter charges me 5 dollars for the cable modem monthly, if they made me buy the modem, that would mean that when they upgrade to docsis 3.0 and i wanted to upgrade to a newer speed, i should upgrade too or not. | |
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 |   RideRed Vista needs a popup blocker for Vista Premium join:2005-06-18 USA
| Re: Hmmm I have an idea!! The modem is a revenue generator for them. That modem may only have cost them $20 in bulk so after 4 months they make pure profit on that $5. The same would be for the new DOCSIS modem. That type of hardware investment results in a quick profit turnover. Infrastructure deployment at several hundred or several thousand per home whether they're subscribers or not takes years or longer to recoup but is necessary for the long term survivability of the company. Badmagicnumber pointed that out criticising investor's short sightedness. Without those investment in FIOS, Verizon would continue to drop subscribers to competitors over the years like AOL did when they failed to come up with a post dial-up plan.
I live in the somewhat-boonies, about 13 miles from my CO and about 6 or 7 from the nearest town, but Verizon recently deployed FIOS here (both internet and TV) and is agressively going after Time Warner with advertising. Before too long they will be splitting Time Warner's revenue as people go to a true cable competitor in FIOS who in our area offers superior service and prices. If AT&T wants long term survivability they'll make the same choice. And it's not a matter of money; they don't have a choice. They must invest or wither away to nothingness over the next decade or two. | |
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 |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY | India has mandatory free incoming i belive. But when you call cells, its a premium rate/diff area codes. | |
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 freebird152
join:2006-10-06 Dinuba, CA
| Well thats all fine but...... How about actually bringing broadband to rural areas, I don't care about 1 Gbit fiber optic, I cant even get 1 mbit broadband for a reasonable price. Instead of upgrading existing broadband service, just expand your current coverage area, upgrading should be very low priority. | |
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 carlini7 Premium join:2003-12-19 Dundee, IL
| Some get it - SOME don't Some of you really get the economic issues that without a state-of-the-art network infrastructure you can kiss good jobs in the future good-bye. Some smaller municipalities understand this but the big ones are still bogged down in bureaucracy and hand-holding by lobbyists.
Excellent points about Project Utopia. Why are the incumbents suing if speed doesn't matter? Ever think that if it is a proof-of-concept that goes well - their whole business model has just been proven to be obsolete?
As for new applications using 10Gbps=======
Here is one for you - if you have a 10Gbps line into your house you can download a 90 Minute Video (about one Gigabyte in storage) in less than a second to your DVD.
Think of the possibilities just for video = Blockbuster becomes an online service - no bricks and mortar needed any more. Studios can download movies to you the day they open. Other video services get downloaded to you in less than seconds.
ALL OF YOU - USE YOUR MIND - think of the NEW applications that can be done just in video when you have 10Gbps connectivity. It's not the applications today - it is what will be available 5 - 10 years from now.
I cannot believe that many of you are are so resistant to moving forward. Are you that brainwashed by some PR person saying that you don't need speed? What sheep.
You should be contacting all of your legislators and telling them that this is just as strategic to the future of this country as fighting terrorism. We need to be first in network infrastructure. | |
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 |   RideRed Vista needs a popup blocker for Vista Premium join:2005-06-18 USA
| Re: Some get it - SOME don't I have FiOS and to that I say so what? FTTH isn't the end all be all you would have us believe. They aren't much different than Time Warner except my combined bill is about $15/mo cheaper, a bit more if you count my intro promotions. So now we see that fiber deployment isn't enough but I suppose you hadn't thought that far ahead yet.
Remote not local storage is the future of video. On Demand services already satisfy the demand for what you claim to need 10Gbps to do. There is no need to bring over the entire movie in an instant when you can stream whatever part you want when you want and do it without having to have your own local storage capacity.
You also don't need 10Gbit residential service to fight terrorism. These are all red herrings that fail to support this phantom demand for multi-gigabit residential services.
Today's deployment technology may not be suitable to applications a decade from now just as you don't own a $7500 quad core balls to the wall desktop now even though it's available on the market and you may have a use for it 5 years from now.
Please provide your research showing this demand for these extreme speeds? Hell, that could be a simple as showing that the majority of current HSI customers are on the fastest available tiers of these providers.
A quick poll of people I know would show the opposite. Most are on the slowest tiers, quite satisfied with 1.5-5Mb services. If the average consumer isn't compelled to spend a few extra bucks to cut download times by 75% what makes you think they'll spend even more on 1000Mb service? I can get 30Mb service but I'm not willing to pay for it even though Verizon made the investment to provide it. And I'm a warez whore throttling the usenet to the tune of 100-200GB/ month and I would imagine it would put me into the top 1% of bandwidth hogs here at DSLR and I don't 'demand' those higher speeds.
It's very nice to say the telco and cable companies all suck, are ripping us off, we should all have unlimited throughput available to us with an SLA for $30/mo but us sheep live in reality where someone has to pay for this infrastructure years, perhaps decades before the "killer app" for it emerges and a return on that investment is realized. | |
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 bohn
join:2006-05-30 Scarborough, ON
| Oh You Must Be Talking Specifically About Canada Canada could give a flying f*ck about anyone wanting to sign for internet. In addition to never ever upgrading to fiber they also have the distinction of being the most expensive and worst internet services in the world. No newsgroups email that never works caps and speed throttling round out the list. | |
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  plk bo may sleep in loft Premium join:2002-04-20 Ogden, IA
| Governement bailout : Small investor cry
Regardless, Fiber or copper I smell a government bailout down the road.
The Bells (some anyway) are milking copper for all its worth. The heard mentality of investors and short sightedness are most of the problem. Like many others have noted....the desire for a 15% return. This economic model is destroying this country, but that's another debate.
What my worries are is the future Government bailout. The Bells (CEO and shareholders) have been sucking all the cream off the top for years now. Their days are numbered unless someone pulls a Rabbit out of the hat (Like No Net Neutrality). They have to find a way to pay for this buildout that is coming. Now, in 5 years or 15, the Bells have to find a way to stay alive. They have enjoyed a monopoly for to long. Offering TV is a must, but only a short term solution and a highly competitive market. No monopoly here. Especially 10 years down the road.
In 10 years the cell phone providers will be also offering wireless Internet both fixed and mobile. Lagging in speeds, but packaged to fit the needs of most just as the Internet of today suits most. This will mean another provider the Bells must content with. (Smell the bells buying up cell phone providers???)
So what are the Bells going to offer? Voice is on it's way to being free or not being a real source of revenue to say the least. TV really isn't the answer neither. Since they don't own the content it will have little return. Far lacking what is needed to fight off the Cables who most of which have fiber and DOCSIS 3.0 just a small investment away...relatively speaking.
Frankly, I see the Bells as dying if they fail to deploy fiber NOW. These stop gap measures really solve nothing and tend to increase debt and really do nothing for 10 years down the road.
So what can the Bells do? Keep skimming the cream off until the end and then ask the tax payers to bail them out is my fear. I can see the reasoning now. Cables will be a monopoly if we don't. Sure, we will have mobile and fixed wireless, but it will not be at a level to handle the demands on the net needed in 10 years.
So who do you want to bail out? Verizon who is taking a risk and deploying FTTH or Qwest? These mergers (if they happen) will make this matter even worse. The Rabbit out of the hat model of innovation for the Bells is about over. Especially if they don't get their two tiered Internet. (maybe I shouldn't of said that out loud. I can see the rational now.....its so we don't have to bail them out down the road.) Keep on congress folks!
Like I have said before, I see a price per gig model in our future. A generation after generation of tech savoy kids coming of age and plenty of demand for the bandwidth some see no need for. Really what choice do the Bells have? What is their future without FTTH? They best get that damn wagon out in front of the horse and pray for plenty of killer apps, HDTV web cams, 3d graphics, and streaming 4 HDTV signals to the home under a price per gig model......... or run to congress and pay for another monopoly sweetheart deal.
In the end, if a bailout occurs I want to bailout Verizon not Qwest. Least then we will have some fiber to show for It. Small shareholder walk away empty handed and the fat cats are long gone holding the bag. Frankly, the stock market will lead to the downfall of this country. I see it as another Amway (spelling)....another pyramid scheme in the bigger picture of things. -- Thermaltake 2000a/Asus P4C-e/p4 3.4/ocz3500 2x512/WD.2x200g/raptor2x74 raid 0/ATI 9600/APC sua 1500/Logitech z-680/ Samsung 213t LCD/MX 1000 | |
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 |  bohn
join:2006-05-30 Scarborough, ON
| Re: Governement bailout : Small investor cry I believe in the next few years we'll see the second shoe drop that hasn't yet from the crash of '87. I put fair market value on the dow at 3,000. The foreign markets are in la-la land when it comes to valuations. They're looking at a fall of at least 85 to 90 percent straight down. I believe a lot of the money will find its way into gold as the US dollar sewers. It's amazing how the ignorant public makes the same mistakes over and over. | |
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 massysett
join:2006-01-04 Silver Spring, MD
| "Who wants a slower car?" By the same token, who wants a 300-mph car? It won't do you any good driving in city traffic.
I am getting tired of hearing about how other countries have faster speeds. What I want to hear is what the other countries are DOING with these faster speeds.
I am happy with my 12 megabits down, thanks. I'd like more upload though. If these other countries are not DOING anything with these faster speeds (ooh! www.ebay.com appears in my browser in .0001 seconds instead of .01 seconds!) then who cares? | |
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  aliant7
| true I'm a contractor for a major telco in atlantic canada. When we wire residential buildings, we bring in the fiber and just coil it up and hang it in the corner of the comm room. Then we bring a 100-pair copper cable and start hooking up phone lines that this telco will later use for their DSL and TV-over-DSL services. Basically entire city has fiber but it's just hanging there waiting for it's day. | |
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 |  bohn
join:2006-05-30 Scarborough, ON
| Re: true As i try to make the rest of the world aware one way or another canda will be the world's biggest laughing stock when canada is the only country in the world to still use copper. Yes i know about india and other countries but i'll stick to what i know and i know canada only too well. | |
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 tmc8080
join:2004-04-24 Floral Park, NY
| information superhighway they didn't call the budding internet the information superhighway for nothing... but the problem is that many different companies and geographic regions have their own diverse thinking on how FAST that superhighway should go (which is to say not particularly fast if it costs the company lots of money)... The telephone companies are likening the switch from copper based facilities to fiber to getting drivers off gasoline based vehicles into hydrogen or natural gas... it's gonna take years and years, and decades and decades and may never really be built in some areas (broadband black holes).. this is just not acceptable when some of the same companies got billions in tax breaks form local, state and federal governments to usher in the new technology, only to get bent over for the ride of a lifetime.. Either build a robust network through and through or: GO OUT OF BUSINESS, get out of the way and let someone who is willing to build the network BUILD ALREADY!!! The | |
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 |  dynodb Premium,VIP join:2004-04-21 Minneapolis, MN
| Re: information superhighway said by tmc8080 :Either build a robust network through and through or: GO OUT OF BUSINESS, get out of the way and let someone who is willing to build the network BUILD ALREADY!!! The You forgot one option: Spend tens of billions of dollars of borrowed money on upgrades that don't generate enough revenue, then "GO OUT OF BUSINESS". | |
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