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More Detail On Sprint's Not-So-Secret LTE Migration
Testing Already Underway, Launch in First Half of 2012

We've effectively known since March that Sprint was moving to LTE, an insider giving us an exclusive scoop that the company's $4-$5 billion base station retrofit was the cornerstone of an LTE shift that involved reconfigured spectrum sharing and network partnerships with LightSquared and Clearwire. That scoop has since been confirmed by numerous leaks in an unlimited number of outlets, fairly obvious Clearwire comments and LightSquared's finally unveiled Sprint partnership.

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Sprint is expected to officially announce the shift October 7, but CEO Dan Hesse has been busy playing coy about what has become the worst-kept secret in telecom. Today an anonymous source is dishing more details on Sprint's LTE launch to CNET, noting the company is already conducting field tests in several unspecified markets. According to the source, a commercial launch for Sprint LTE is slated for either the first or second quarter of next year:
quote:
The company is already installing LTE equipment and has been field testing the network in select areas, according to people familiar with the situation. It hopes to launch commercial service by the end of the first quarter or beginning of the second quarter, although the target could move up. It's unclear how many markets would get the service initially. The LTE rollout is part of the company's broader Network Vision plan. With the costs already accounted for in its prior forecast, the LTE network won't require any additional capital investment.
As we noted back in March, the $4-5 billion base station retrofit will include Alcatel-Lucent, Ericsson and Samsung retrofitting every Sprint cell site. The shift will involve eliminating the refrigerator-sized cabinets for each technology (800 MHz, 1.9 GHz and 2.5 GHz) in favor of small, more energy efficient multi-mode base stations. That not only gives Sprint the option of adding LTE to the mix, it allows them to streamline their entire network in terms of footprint and energy consumption. Whether Sprint's claim they can do all of this for $5 billion is something investors will particularly be watching with great interest.
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xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon

Member

iDen spectrum

CNET says they will use the iDen band (800Mhz) for LTE. How much spectrum is there available? Enough for 4G speeds to many users at once? Am thinking it might only be 10Mhz.

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium Member
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

Matt3

Premium Member

Re: iDen spectrum

said by xenophon:

CNET says they will use the iDen band (800Mhz) for LTE. How much spectrum is there available? Enough for 4G speeds to many users at once? Am thinking it might only be 10Mhz.

They are deploying LTE on multiple frequencies and are taking a "What fits best?" approach. For example, you might only talk 800MHz when you are at great distance from a tower or when in-building penetration is needed, but your phone might switch to LTE on their 1800/1900MHz spectrum when you are outdoors.

Their ultimate goal is to have a single chip solution for CDMA/LTE/WiMax, which can talk across all their spectrum (800/900MHz, 1800/1900MHz, 2.5GHz) using any of their 3 technologies, (CDMA, LTE, WiMax), and allow your handset and the base station to decide which is the best combination of frequency and technology given your current situation.

Coupled with their frequency loss mitigation plans (moving the equipment onto the tower, unlike the picture above that still shows it at the base of the tower), overall, it's pretty brilliant.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: iDen spectrum

said by Matt3:

said by xenophon:

CNET says they will use the iDen band (800Mhz) for LTE. How much spectrum is there available? Enough for 4G speeds to many users at once? Am thinking it might only be 10Mhz.

They are deploying LTE on multiple frequencies and are taking a "What fits best?" approach. For example, you might only talk 800MHz when you are at great distance from a tower or when in-building penetration is needed, but your phone might switch to LTE on their 1800/1900MHz spectrum when you are outdoors.

Their ultimate goal is to have a single chip solution for CDMA/LTE/WiMax, which can talk across all their spectrum (800/900MHz, 1800/1900MHz, 2.5GHz) using any of their 3 technologies, (CDMA, LTE, WiMax), and allow your handset and the base station to decide which is the best combination of frequency and technology given your current situation.

Coupled with their frequency loss mitigation plans (moving the equipment onto the tower, unlike the picture above that still shows it at the base of the tower), overall, it's pretty brilliant.

Looks like Sprint wants to maximize coverage without having to actually expand to more locations, at least initially. If their deals with Clearwire and Lightspring actually bear fruit, their coverage can expand even more.

tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium Member
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO

tiger72

Premium Member

Re: iDen spectrum

said by FFH5:

Looks like Sprint wants to maximize coverage without having to actually expand to more locations, at least initially.

Yep - seems to be working for Verizon too.

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium Member
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

Matt3 to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

Looks like Sprint wants to maximize coverage without having to actually expand to more locations, at least initially. If their deals with Clearwire and Lightspring actually bear fruit, their coverage can expand even more.

This was a key topic in their presentation. It allows for a massive improvement in cell site coverage due to antenna to cable losses mitigated by placing equipment higher up on the tower.
sandman_1
join:2011-04-23
11111

sandman_1 to Matt3

Member

to Matt3
Can't wait till they kick in this "Network Vision" thing. I would love to get rid of my Airwave, even though I don't pay a fee for it I still have to pay the taxes for it.

From what I have read, this could almost double their coverage. Or do I have it wrong?

Alcohol
Premium Member
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI

Alcohol to Matt3

Premium Member

to Matt3
Phones can't switch from LTE to wimax without dropping the call. I don't see this working out.

Clear is going to have to get rid of wimax.

tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium Member
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO

tiger72

Premium Member

Re: iDen spectrum

said by Alcohol:

Phones can't switch from LTE to wimax without dropping the call. I don't see this working out.

Clear is going to have to get rid of wimax.

Huh?
1. Why on earth would anyone want to switch from LTE to Wimax (or vice versa)? They're both data standards. LTE should ALWAYS be the preferred network in any scenario where LTE is available.
2. Since no voice traffic is getting routed over WiMax (doesn't support it) or LTE (no support for VoLTE yet either), but instead is routed over CDMA, where do you get this information that for whatever reason calls would get dropped?

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium Member
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

Matt3 to Alcohol

Premium Member

to Alcohol
said by Alcohol:

Phones can't switch from LTE to wimax without dropping the call. I don't see this working out.

Clear is going to have to get rid of wimax.

WiMax is data only, not voice. LTE (actually VoLTE when it matures) or CDMA will be used for voice.
iFail 5G
join:2011-08-03

iFail 5G to xenophon

Member

to xenophon
said by xenophon:

CNET says they will use the iDen band (800Mhz) for LTE. How much spectrum is there available? Enough for 4G speeds to many users at once? Am thinking it might only be 10Mhz.

No it won't even be that because of freq. guards that would have to be put in place. They don't even have FCC approval for ESMR spectrum for LTE. They barely got a 1.27mhz paired pt.90 approval for CDMA/EVDO and haven't even implemented that.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: iDen spectrum

Are you sure that isn't implemented? I know that there are phones now (Evo 3D, maybe one or two others?) that have CDMA on the ESMR band.

But yeah, LTE on ESMR is going to be a bit of an issue. My expectation: CDMA with EvDO Rev. B on 800/1900, LTE on 1900/2500.
whiteyonenh
join:2004-08-09
Keene, NH

whiteyonenh

Member

Re: iDen spectrum

said by iansltx:

Are you sure that isn't implemented? I know that there are phones now (Evo 3D, maybe one or two others?) that have CDMA on the ESMR band.

But yeah, LTE on ESMR is going to be a bit of an issue. My expectation: CDMA with EvDO Rev. B on 800/1900, LTE on 1900/2500.

Capable of, yes, equipments at the towers to support it, no. Unless there's some test network up on ESMR, The Evo 3D and the other few phones that are compatible with it are still connecting via their regular 1.9ghz network.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: iDen spectrum

My bet is that they have a test market out somewhere.
iFail 5G
join:2011-08-03

iFail 5G

Member

Re: iDen spectrum

said by iansltx:

My bet is that they have a test market out somewhere.

Its probably ready in some markets, but they aren't opening it for devices to connect to. So I guess that would be a test market? Hopefully it won't take 3-5 years to enable it nationally because they don't really have that long.

The PRL's are already out for the Evo 3D and are set to scan for 1X coverage on ESMR so hopefully we will see some digital action soon!
iFail 5G

iFail 5G to iansltx

Member

to iansltx
said by iansltx:

Are you sure that isn't implemented? I know that there are phones now (Evo 3D, maybe one or two others?) that have CDMA on the ESMR band.

But yeah, LTE on ESMR is going to be a bit of an issue. My expectation: CDMA with EvDO Rev. B on 800/1900, LTE on 1900/2500.

Nope not yet, hopefully soon. They still haven't even come close to matching Nextel tower coverage down in the Southeast yet, but I think CDMA on ESMR will be integrated in solving that.

I don't know how well Rev.B would fit in ESMR because AFAIK they only have approval for 1 1xRTT slice and an EVDO slice at 1.27mhz and not the conventional 1.25, the rest is allocated for a guard band.

If they use *smart* antenna tech like Verizon is using in many markets, they can improve their existing PCS coverage greatly though and run Rev. B in that.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: iDen spectrum

Makes sense, though if Heavy Reading is to be trusted Sprint may end up deploying a "mini-LTE" channel like MetroPCS has done, in the ESMR band. They may skip EvDO entirely, and have only 1x Advanced (voice, slowish data) on 800 to allow for on-network voice coverage in hard-to-reach areas, assuming that indoors you'll have WiFi of some sort anyway.

hamburglar
join:2002-04-29
united state

1 recommendation

hamburglar

Member

Won't matter

They'll backhaul with a T1 for the whole tower like the 3G is now...

L337
Premium Member
join:2005-03-10
Chicago, IL

L337

Premium Member

Re: Won't matter

I don't think they would do that, hehe. They might use DS-3 or OC-3, maybe?

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium Member
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

Matt3

Premium Member

Re: Won't matter

said by L337:

I don't think they would do that, hehe. They might use DS-3 or OC-3, maybe?

GigE and/or Point-to-Point WiMax.
antidelldude
join:2003-12-22
Beverly Hills, CA

antidelldude

Member

Re: Won't matter

That would be awesome. Verizon is running fiber to 90% of their towers by 2013. Anyone know if Sprint has anything similar in the works?
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Won't matter

Clearwire has had some luck with using E-Band PtP 80GHz solutions. 1.25 Gbps symmetric per link, and you can do two links per antenna set. Plenty of bandwidth to go around and doesn't rely on the ILEC/MSO/whoever else having fiber to each tower.

davoice
join:2000-08-12
Saxapahaw, NC

davoice

Member

Re: Won't matter

Actually, Clear has been installing fiber to every tower where it is feasible and cost efficient with fiber being the preferred transport. PtP wireless is reserved for tower sites with no easy access to fiber or a cableco partner. Here in the Carolinas (TWC territory and a Clear partner), the vast majority of towers are backhauled using Time Warner Cable fiber and some Tw Telecom CLEC fiber with a random Level3 fiber connection here and there.

My assumption is that Sprint Wireless and TWC will continue to have similar backhaul relationships where possible. Now Sprint and Comcast... they don't get along so well.

}Davoice
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Won't matter

I'm surprised to hear that Sprint and Comcast don't get along so well. Comcast also sells Clear products as part of their Quadruple Play in certain markets (including Denver)...I'd guess that they would strike a deal with Sprint/Clear in return for cheap wholesale rates to provide cheap metro Ethernet transport for 4G.

Then again, around here Comcast is far from the only fiber provider. tw telecom, Level3, Zayo and others are available, even when you completely ignore the ILEC (now CenturyLink).

davoice
join:2000-08-12
Saxapahaw, NC

davoice

Member

Re: Won't matter

Comcast doesn't play well with others in general. It's not just with Sprint that they don't get along so well with. At best, they "tolerate" other carriers.

swintec
Premium Member
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME

swintec

Premium Member

Yay.

I am going to keep sticking it out with them for the long haul. Plus, I just cant bring myself to give Verizon or AT&T money.

DaveDude
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey

1 edit

DaveDude

Member

cdma gone soon

Once carriers get LTE going the quick demise of GSM and Cdma will follow. Hopefully carriers will be interoperability ? My sammy already has hspa on 4 frequencies.
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon

Member

Re: cdma gone soon

Might be many years before Voice-over-LTE is equally reliable and has the same footprint as today's CDMA.

Alcohol
Premium Member
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI

Alcohol to DaveDude

Premium Member

to DaveDude
Yeah, and battery will last 2 hours.

DaveDude
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey

DaveDude

Member

Re: cdma gone soon

said by Alcohol:

Yeah, and battery will last 2 hours.

3500 size battery on my android. It would probably last 20 mins on lte.
pkorx8
join:2003-06-19
San Francisco, CA

pkorx8

Member

Yet another LTE band?

So will this be another operating band of LTE, which will not be compatible with the other two (Verizon & ATT)'s band of LTE?

Sounds like there will be no hope of eliminating carrier-branded phones in the near future.
Until then, there will be no hope of real (pro-consumer) competition in the US wireless market.

cdubc
@comcast.net

cdubc

Anon

Re: Yet another LTE band?

Nail meet head.

tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium Member
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO

tiger72 to pkorx8

Premium Member

to pkorx8
Thank the FCC for that.

atuarre
Here come the drums
Premium Member
join:2004-02-14
EC/SETX SWLA

atuarre to pkorx8

Premium Member

to pkorx8
said by pkorx8:

So will this be another operating band of LTE, which will not be compatible with the other two (Verizon & ATT)'s band of LTE?

Sounds like there will be no hope of eliminating carrier-branded phones in the near future.
Until then, there will be no hope of real (pro-consumer) competition in the US wireless market.

why would greedy carriers make it easier for you to move from one persons network to another persons network? Have you forgotten where you are all of a sudden?

bigdaddy
join:2009-11-18

2 edits

bigdaddy

Member

Read This it has everything you need to know

»www.connectedvehicle.org ··· sion.pdf

••••••••••

Gbcue
Premium Member
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA

Gbcue

Premium Member

$5 Billion, I can see that happening

Since it will only take AT&T $4B without buying T-Mobile to accomplish 92% penetration with LTE...